Leo_G

Most likely to counter the d**ches that think their viewpoint is just as infallible, but declare themselves the 'winner' so the OP should shut up, slit their kitty's throat then hang themselves for ever thinking outside the box.

Or what I'd like to call: Close-minded >_>

Ahem, Shockwave is a tier 9. Also, Claws doesn't really get a high powered ST attack like Concentrated Strike. Also, Claws does only lethal damage. Also, outside of better endurance management and shorter recharge times, Claws doesn't have a secondary effect.

Vs Claws, what's Repulsing Torrent's purpose? Probably being a throw-away power, or doing 50dmg to 10 targets vs Eviscerate's 125dmg to 5 targets...which isn't too bad considering one comes at lvl 8 vs lvl 26.

I think where he's coming from is, you basically compare Kin to 3+ other sets at once. Yeah, so Burst doesn't have animation speed of DT? Well MA doesn't have the range of Focused Burst...or the Energy Damage crits of the whole set...and Kin has better stuns...and capable of higher +dmg bonuses.

Comparing Kin to *one* set, yes, you'll find disadvantages but you'll also find advantages, like the stuns and energy damage. If you compare the set to every set at once, yes you can make the set look horrible but you also make yourself sound like an idiot.

Well if one is to read the set's description, SJ doesn't have combos like DB. The set has 2 types of attacks: 'Builders' and 'Finishers'. You use the builders to increase your combo level (up to lvl 3) and the finisher is enhanced by the combo level.

Xanta doesn't know how to use more than one type of sword?

With the possible release of some of the new sets, I may actually expand on my characters' capabilities properly.

Such as my main pretty much trained in nearly every earthly type of hand to hand combat. He hasn't mastered them but he can put the hurting on some foos. So I may make him up as a MA/SR but lvl lock him at lvl 30. He may take Street Justice up to (but excluding) the goin attack ;-). And in his shifted state, have him using Titan Weapons up to 50. That'll leave me to incarnate his Katana...now if only we could 'bundle' these alts as being one character...

My half-main and buddy/training partner of my main will stay Inv/Kin but may also do WP/MA.

My other half-main is still pending depending on how SJ turns out. But she'll jump right on a staff melee set.

My main's friend turned evil needs thrown weapons but spines works for now. But he also has a possessed scythe so if Titan weapons has one (or better still, adding a whole set for it) he'll use that too.

Not every one of my characters gets this treatment but the ones that do very well can't use all these powers together in one fight. they'd have to stop and switch combat modes, right?

Thanks! I tried not soundind like a d**che but probably failed.

But those basics are kind of engrained in my brain since I ended up taking Drawing 101 at least 3 times, in high school, in junior college and again in university. I changed my major too many times...

I think you misunderstand. It's not about the effect/animation in a vacuum. Speed is relative.

Looking at something that doesnt remain in focus portrays the object moving with some speed or the viewer moving at speed. If a jet zipped by your window, the plane would be a blur. But to the pilot, your house would be the blur. The same is said for other methods. Something with after images can appear to be moving faster or slower than those watching. In still work, it's the pose that helps determine that but this can be blurred intentionally.

All that said, I'm not disagreeing with the thread. Flurry doesn'f feel fast on my character either (Jump Kick feels more speedy to me). Sam's video looks pretty keen to me but that actually looks harder hitting than attacks in the Broadsword

This is exactly right. That old powerset poll was actually 2 polls, one for an armor set and another for an attack set. The devs offered up a set of options with there being sets in both polls marked with a '*'. That mark indicated a set that was possibly workable but would present problems of some kind.

I think Stretching was a melee set maked as problematic. There was also Lightening Hammer, Psy Weaponry (i voted that), Energy Blade (i voted this too), Street fighting and Dual Blades. There were complaints that staff fighting wasnt on the list. The votes were rather close with the order BrandX mentioned.

For armor, Growth(i voted) was marked as problematic. There was Sonic Vibration, Shields (i voted), Force Field and there might have been 1 more but i can't recall. The votes on these sets weren't very close with Shields being the clear winner.

First off, MA and SS aren't much for mitigators. They basically offer some stun and KB. They're far better for burst dmg than mitigation.

From how it was explained, each finisher has a type of debuff or secondary effect. Using the builder powers (up to 3 times) just enhances the secondary effect of the finisher power used.

Secondly, it be rather foolish to expect this new set to replace an old one just cause it doesn't meet your min/max expectations. I'm personally hoping the set is 'meh' for DPS, decent to good ST and AOE burst but does very well in debuff and control.

I've been wishing for a melee MA defenderish AT or character and rather than needing a whole AT, this set might fit my kick-butt pressure-points kung fu girl quite well ^_^

And once both are damage capped, Stalker must only overcome the % difference in damage mods which it's varying crit rates + controlled crits can do.

See? It's basically 'they *can* but it doesn't count!'. So it's thrown out the window and disregarded. And once a couple of more sets that close the gap for AoE crop up(have you seen the set-up for the new Street Justice set?), that's even *less* of an argument for you to stand on.

Again, apparently the circumstances for the Stalker outdamaging the Scrapper are just not good enough for some so we'll just slide into Stalkers becoming Scrappers. Yeah, no reason to use AS (or AS will just be morphed into a generic attack). No conditions involved, no effort, no strategy. You just smash buttons and things will die very quickly.

*Hands the players their Stalkpper*

Considering I've been 'wrong' about so many other QoL changes like inherent fitness, the domination change, the assassination changes and defiance, I wouldn't put it past the devs to dumb down the AT so that it was a Scrapper analog with some stealth. >_>

I'd suggest doing this, although I've never tried myself. I've yet to pair DA with a character with decent stuns yet...

All in all, I'd suggest taking one or the other but not both on a Stalker. Turning off/on two toggles when you want to placate isn't as easy as just one and they really don't mesh all that well together, IMO.

I used to have both on my Spines/DA but dropped OG for CoF. Without any stuns to stack, OG is only going to affect minions. With CoF, I took Presence Pool. It fits his concept and makes him effective to fear bosses. But yes, it will take some slots. Since they are conceptually thematic powers for the character, I 6 slotted both CoF and Intimidate. 5 slots of Siphon Insight + lvl 50 Fear/END IO in CoF gives a chunk of Def to smashing/lethal. In Intimidate it's 3 slots of Glimpse of the Abyss and 3 slots of Nightmare for 2 +fear durations, some +HP and energy defense.

I usually manually switch off CoF when using placate. I like it alot because I can use Intimidate 1st, switch it off during Placate's animation (CoF doesn't tic super fast) then take a quick step to line up Ripper. OG is nice but foes tend to wobble around your cones...like a portable caltrops (if they get stunned) but CoF is like a portable glue patch (if they're feared). That's why I describe CoF as 'sticky'. Way better for lining up cones. And the upside is, even if the foe isn't feared, they're still debuffed whereas, if the foe isn't stunned by OG, you still pay HP.

And Intimidate isn't that bad once slotted (I'd take Invoke Panic if there was room in the build). I can almost perma fear a boss. But yeah, it sucks up alot of slots...Thankfully, it fits my character's theme quite well so it's not really a sacrifice.

Really? That's basic figure drawing.

Blurred/incomplete figures, multiple depictions of an object at different points of action, dynamic poses showing direction/velocity...

That'd work opposite. It'd give the illusion time was slowing and your character with it. In effect, it *would* portray superspeed, but of the world around them.


To toss another suggestion in the hat: Make Flurry a 8ft PBAoE and increase its recharge. Add 'ghost figure' FX so it looks like the character is also swinging behind and around.

I was actually going to bring up Domination but I forgot in my effort to make a somewhat coherent post. Things get muddled while I'm typing them so I have to go back and reread to make sure it makes sense but I just forgot that part.

But yes, I was actually one of the opponents of taking away the Jekyll/Hyde duality from the AT. But that was when I played doms alot...I haven't played much of them lately if only because they're alot less interesting to me. They're great, powerful and a boon to any team and I *want* to play them but I never get around to it.

I guess my previous statements were directed at those that were stating it would be balanced for Stalkers to plainly outdamage Brutes/Scraps. Honestly, all 3 ATs (4 if you count Blasters) really only bring damage. If one totally outdoes the others, you basically take away a reason to play the ones that don't do the same damage. That isn't to say I think we should keep Stalkers inferior, but that damage is just one thing among many that could change such as delivery, debuff, safety and so forth.

Considering Scrapper EC was changed after the buff to Stalkers, and if I were asked to submit possible changes for the set, I'd probably suggest adding a +crit buff (around +20-33% crit rate. Scrapper EC gives +33% for 3sec) to Stalker Eagle's Claw *if it crits* for 8sec. And to give Assassin's Blow a bit more functionality, +20-33% crit rate for 8 sec. from a successful AS. So, like said, the reason to use BU+AS vs BU+EC from hide is so that one can use EC after placate later.

For Energy Melee, I'd probably say chuck more AoE control into it. Make ET's stun splash and critting with TF providing an Auto-Hit PBAoE stun along with it's extra portion of damage. But then that's just me wishing to diversify sets. MA can be the quick hard-hitter melee specialist while EM can be the slow hard-hitter control specialist. And now that we've got 2 stun aura armors, EM (and to a lesser extend Electric melee) would be the sets providing the controls.

DM would be for debuffs. I'd like to say a critical hit with any DM attack would splash some -ToHit around the target while a critical Assassin's Eclipse giving a 5sec time period of your attacks splashing -ToHit, but that might be too strong. But an alternate 'Soul Drain' type of effect, where killing a foe with Midnight Grasp instantly recharges BU would certainly give the set a new dynamic similar to KM's critting Concentrated Strike recharging BU.

I could go on but we'd probably need to see if revisiting sets for revisions like this is even palpable. I figure since they did decide to revisit Scrapper MA even though it wasn't 'that bad', this can't be completely off the radar.

I think the problem comes with the method of doing so. Such as currently, Stalkers *can* out DPS Scrappers. But apparently it's too circumstantial for you guys so 'it doesn't count'. The only way, for the majority arguing for more power, is the most simplistic, straightforward, "screw theme just give me dmg" approach. The damage has to be here, all the time, no strings attached. It can't be tied down to AS. And if it is, we have to be "justified" for such 'limitations'.

And that still won't quell many who say, since the AT has the lowers survival it should have the most damage. Their argument *hinges* on power creep.

I have to agree that the new Brute Fury is kinda more of a buff for me. But then my playstyle is far and away from the 'go go go' nature of the AT. Then another question pops up: "Is it okay to flip theme the bird?"

The new Fury, while advantageous to my gameplay, may hamper the gameplay of another who followed the theme properly. When I play Brute, I'm prepared for 'go go go' and if not I play a Stalker or Scrapper. But now it doesn't matter. Brutes are like Scrappers but with a bar that hardly matters anymore.

I'd rather not Stalkers become Scrappers with that non-sequitur of a stealth power.

Personally, I wish they would have done something with the critical *damage* rather than the rate. Yes, give the Stalkers that 10% base rate but keep it static. Where Stalkers should shine is the resulting damage.

But rather than increasing the ATs overall damage potential, they should balance the sets themselves before making any such sweeping changes. Kinetic Melee does so well with its 100% crit AoE and Insta-recharge BU tier 9...why can't EM *DO* something when it crits? Energy Transfer *DOESN'T* take HP when it crits and Total Focus only *half does* anything.

Scrapper MA's Eagle's Claw does something cool by greatly enhancing crit rate for a short time, why can't Stalkers just get the same values for damage but have EC do exactly the same +crit that last longer?

For damage, the devs might have implied that *STALKERS* were strong enough but that also says nothing about Stalker's sets. Just leave the AT where its at...give its sets some Kinetic Melee touch ups.

As for the comment about me being inflammatory, oh well. If you don't like what I'm saying...

When Angry_Citizen was here during the changes, even he admit it pushed us away from what the AT was meant to be but it improved Stalkers to be competitive with the other melees. Since none of the other melees were buffed since then, I'm going to go with his version of 'par' as I'm sure he knew a lot more than you guys do.

I'd say it'd shut alot of people up having Stalkers and Scrappers with the same mitigation potential.

Then we'd have to lower Brute damage *again*.

*POWER CREEP ALARM!*

Never really argued with that except it starts to infringe on the ATs premise of an assassin creeping in the shadows, eluding detection because they're not that sturdy. Nothing in Scrapper's description says they have to be capable of being substitute tanks...and when I say substitute tanks I don't mean one that can run in and do the job, but take a Tanker's job. As is, I have plenty of non-tankers (several of which are Stalkers) that can take alphas or divert aggro but none do what a Tanker does.

Or we could do something completely different and expand on alternative aspects of the AT. Devs already said Stalkers are 'as good as they're going to get' so maybe they could make Stalkers 'more useful'. Make a portion of the debuffs of their attacks unresistable. Greatly improve their debuff mods. Make their debuffs 'splash' like gauntlet.

The way I see it, you guys are asking for damage and the devs said 'No.'

So what do you do? Ask for more damage, I guess >_>

Soooo we should nerf scrapper HP/HP cap down to Stalker's?

But the devs didn't use the 'metric' spoken here to reserve some observed dichotomy between Brutes, Tankers and Scrappers by *buffing* Scrappers. They *nerfed* Brutes.

When you're doing it wrong, you're doing it wrong. Same complaint people have with anything they find difficult like Knockback, Khelds or, for me Masterminds.

But then that's when I express a means to *inform*. You can't use AS on a running target? Move ahead of the target and queue it as they run by. Is there something wrong with AS? Well, if there is something wrong with AS, it's *NOT* that it's unusable on moving targets, that's for sure.

As for the rest? I'm firmly in the position that whoever deals the most damage currently 'On Paper' (most likely Blasters and/or Doms) is the *highest* any AT should be capable of standardly. Because if Stalkers start *clearly* outdamaging Scrappers/Brutes, where does that leave Blasters? Do you increase their survivability to match *at least* Doms? Then where do doms sit? Or Khelds? Or Corruptors?

Yes, this argument is a slippery slope fallacy, but your WHOLE PREMISE to make Stalkers outdamage X AT is a slippery slope. It's power creep and you're just too naive or stubborn to acknowledge that.

I'm as big a Stalker fan as you, and I want my Stalkers to shine as well, but not at the price of balance. I'd rather the AT be *balanced* than rely on a crutch of imbalance to make you feel good about yourself.

Well good the devs aren't asking you. I'm pretty sure they put you on the same list as Johnny Butane and EvilRyu >_>

Don't see how that's relevent. LR doesn't crit so it doesn't matter when you use it in your AoE chain. And if your trying to mow through fodder, you don't bother with AS.

AoE is as much a part of damage dealing as melee is to Blasters. It's not a requirement but it's an advantage in a good deal of situations.

That said, it still makes no sense to me when poster complain about low AoE on their stalkers and how that SS/Fire so outclasses them. Do you honestly think having that Whirling Sword/Lotus Drop, or Whirling Hands or Dragons Tail will suddenly close that gap? Why not use your brain, cut out the middle man, stop wasting your time pining over attacks the AT never had and ask for sets like Fire Armor and Super Strength?

Then why aren't you using BU + Throw Spines/1K cuts/Burst/Thunder Strike and a follow up AoE if you're trying to have a 'who kills the fodder fastest' pissing match?

Oh it accepts KB IOs. I have a FF +rech proc in it now. I guess there's no harm in putting 3 more slots in it, 2 dmg procs and the KB proc...but currently Repulse doesn't take accuracy enhancements. I'm pretty sure Disrupt will require that. I'll just have to reserve one build with Repulse slotted out...maybe 4 slots. That way, I won't have to respec if I need the slots...or just leave one build open but with repulse taken to add slots when I choose the levels...Hmm...

I guess I won't need to 6 slot Energy Drain. Just some recharge and defense and that can easily be covered in 3 or 4 slots...

Not sure if anyone actually said *that*. Min/max, even occasionally for me, comes with playing the character, really. I don't often pick sets *to* min/max but I *do* keep synergy in thought when picking a set combination.

But then frequency also comes into play when making such choices too. How many Super Strength characters do you have? How many SS/Fire characters do you have? Can I just remake an old one into another concept or should I just choose different powers?

Can't argue with that.

But just to clarify on my angle with starting from powers: I can't actually make the character until I have *ALL* the bits. I can't even start making a character with just a bio/name. My process often occurs over weeks after I decide I want to use a certain power. It's certainly commendable how some of you can start out with a name and have a nice full character in a day or so...but then I do feel pretty smug with just my intimate and comparatively small roaster of characters. Definitely not several servers full, but still enough to have the majority of the powersets covered.