Kyriani

This is exactly right IMO.

Unfortunately pretending is often required. Power customization and costume auras have given us great tools to give our concepts life. You have to understand however that there are limits as to what the devs can give each AT to work with mechanically. And a new AT can't simply be thrown together purely for those who wish it for concept. There are balance factors to consider and development time and resources as well. It is up to you to make come up with a character concept within the confines of the game mechanics. It is not up to the devs to make the game mechanics conform to your character concepts. Though I will agree the devs can do more to help you make your concept thematically (within the confines of the game mechanics).

You can say it over and over that you don't want an "overpowered purely ranged character with scrapper survivability" I simply do not believe you. You are asking for exactly that no matter what you say about "adjusting caps or numbers".

What "cant" you make with a defender/corruptor as far as a ranged character goes? From what I see you can't make things like Fire Blast/Willpower or Energy Blast/Invulnerability or Dual Pistols/Regen or say Stone Assault/Stone Armor. Those examples are very telling. You cannot make these combos for balance reasons and no tweaking/capping of numbers will "fix it". Ranged AT's do not have access to these sets for good reason.

I will say I would not mind seeing more APP's though. More things to match thematically... like say a Fire Mastery for defenders/corruptors to go with fire blast thermals so they can have Fire Shield as a thematically appropriate shield for example. Or say a Munitions Mastery for the dual pistol/traps def/cors but I honestly believe that's the most you can hope for.

You are simply never going to get armor sets like the scrappers have for a ranged character like defenders and corruptors. In all honestly what I think you want (and I don't blame you) is blasters to have their secondaries overhauled into more survivability sets and I personally would be all for that though I don't anticipate that ever happening. Blasters, to me, have always felt like i was playing with only a blast set and no secondary because outside of one or two powers the secondaries did absolute squat. The melee abilities seem ridiculous to me (though I am sure it makes sense to the devs and other players) for an AT that is so fragile. If it were me I'd overhaul the secondaries to include shields and that might actually appease you. But again we aren't going to see that happen and that's for balance reasons and/or vision of the devs reasons.

Can you pass that same issue along to Tunnel Rat regarding power customization? Being stuck with a "dark" palette on a number of powersets (dark blast, dark miasma and pain domination come to mind) because the art team thinks that's thematically correct really hurts our ability to customize to OUR tastes.

Well for a scrapper they are petty nice actually.. I'm playing in mids now with a fire/fire/fire scrapper built to be a ranged attacker and it actually looks pretty impressive... I may need to consider building this in game >.>

Sure the ranged damage wont be as high as its melee but its still pretty good and its kinda exactly what we are talking about here... "less than a blaster ranged dmg with scrapper lvl defenses"

Couldn't you just make a stalker and take an APP/PPP for ranged attacks?

I mean I know it's unorthodox to use an AT like a scrapper or stalker as a ranged attacker but it is mechanically possible. Especially with a high recharge build.

At first glance I want to say "sure I don't see anything wrong with a VEAT like character with a wider variety of options" but then I think about the possible ramifications... and I also believe you don't actually want a VEAT with more options because you seem to be anti-team support/buffs. The VEATS provide a great deal of support and buffs to their teams.

Here are possible reasons why you MIGHT not be able to get what you want:

1) VEATS might have specific damage types for balance reasons. The devs may have issue with a VEAT like character having access to other blast type sets and the abilities that encompass them. The VEAT powersets are set up with specific abilities and aren't just ported over sets from other AT's. The Fortunata for example has a mix of mind control and psi blast abilities. Part of the uniqueness of the VEATS is their versatile toolkit.

2) Scrapper Blaster: The character it really SOUNDS like you want IS something with a blaster's primary and a scrapper's secondary. It seems to me you're looking for broad spectrum resistances and/or defense with mez protection alongside a Blaster primary. That's not something I think the devs will find as balanced gameplay. You're never going to see a Fire Blast/Willpower archetype... I'd get that idea out of your head ASAP.

3) Balance: A character like what you are looking for doesn't exist for good reason. Said character would be too strong offensively and defensively compared to other AT's. Consider that existing ranged damage AT's can already become astronomically sturdy, imagine how insane this blast/defense AT would be given all those options.

4) Role: What role would this "tankmage" AT fill? A ranged damage dealer? We have several already why would we need another?

5) Redundancy: What you want can already be achieved. No it can't be achieved from lvl 1-10 on but it can be achieved... just not on your timetable. Frankly you probably already know better. Because if you've ever played a melee AT you know they don't start off much sturdier than anyone else. They need to level to pick up key powers that stack with each other to give them survivability. Ranged AT's are no different. You can stack various powers for mitigation... you just dont have as many or as strong options as the melee AT's. For example an invuln tanker doesnt have much more resistance to s/l than a kheldian early on. It's only after they stack other powers does that sturdiness grow. The fact that ranged AT's can improve their sturdiness through pool powers and APP/PPP's provides more than enough blurring of the lines between AT's.

Just for kicks I opened Mid's and made a thermal/fire/power defender. With no incarnate powers at all and just the right power picks and slotting it ends up with 27% melee defense, 40% ranged defense, 36% aoe defense, 70% resistance to s/l, Force of nature throws up 70ish% resistance to everything else but psi when needed and it has 25% bonus damage on top of vigilance. I skipped all but 3 powers in thermal but since this would be a solo character it doesn't matter. I chose power for Power Buildup so I could have a similar toolkit to a blaster. I could have gotten a broader spread of resistance types with another APP/PPP like mu mastery or soul mastery. Even at lvl 25 with just SO's this character has about 21% defense to everything and 23% resistance to s/l. That's an impressive amount mitigation for a ranged character. I can probably do that or better with just about any powerset combo on a defender and to a lesser extent a corruptor. About the only thing such a character lacks is mez protection and thats what break frees are for not to mention all that defense will help avoid mez affects as well.

I still say a perma-light form peacebringer is exactly what you're asking for in function.

I swear I want to hit all you people in the head with a brick till what I am saying makes sense.

I don't know any other way to say it.

A soft capped super reflexes character still sees a benefit from a defense bonus. The number goes up no matter what. Even if that bonus is useless in the grand scheme of things that is IRRELEVANT.

Let's say your SR character gets detoggled somehow. You've lost your defense toggles for a short time but that defense set bonus is still protecting you no matter how slight that protection might be

With a +heal bonus and no healing powers what do you have? A big fat nothing.

I'll say it again. And I will keep on saying it till you people stop being obtuse and understand:

THIS IS NOT ABOUT HOW GOOD, BAD OR OPTIMAL THE SET BONUS IS.

THIS IS ABOUT HAVING A SET BONUS IN AN AT SPECIFIC SET THAT IS NONFUNCTIONAL FOR PRIMARY/SECONDARY POWER COMBINATIONS IN THAT AT BECAUSE THEY DO NOT POSSESS ANY POWERS THAT THE SET BONUS AFFECTS.

A global bonus always does something whether you want to bury your head in the sand about it or not.

A +heal bonus does not. A +heal bonus only does something if you have a power that can heal.

You're another person who doesn't get the problem.

A 2% damage bonus is perfectly fine for a mastermind. Why? because whether you choose to take those attacks from your primary or not... you have the potential of benefiting from that 2% damage bonus from your primary/secondary attack powers.

A set designed for your AT that gives a healing bonus when several of your primary and secondary combos can result in not possessing ANY healing powers at all isn't useless... it's non functional because you do not possess even the possibility of choosing the powers that set bonus would benefit.

As an MM you CAN take your primary attacks and that set bonus will help you. As a FF/Psi defender I cannot take any power from my primary or secondary that can get any benefit from that set bonus.

A global bonus like defense is very different from a +healing bonus

Allow me to explain. A global bonus like defense is just that a benefit that is on all the time that requires no input from the user, is not contingent on your AT or powersets. It does something regardless of what powers you have chosen. Now no matter how inconsequential or useless you think that defense bonus might be (whether cause you aren't stacking defense or your powersets arent really defense focused) is irrelevant. You are getting a defense bonus. You are getting something that does something however useless that something might be.

A healing bonus does nothing. For the healing bonus to do something it requires the player to activate a power that heals either themselves or another target. Let me clarify that HEALING and REGENERATION are two different animals. A +healing bonus does not benefit a regen power. A +healing bonus non functional if the player has no powers that grant healing.

You still don't seem to get it. Your point about how useless a s/l defense bonus is to this or that at/powerset is IRRELEVANT. Those bonuses DO SOMETHING whether you want to acknowledge that or not. A +healing bonus DOES NOTHING if you have no powers that heal. Now when you couple that with a set of IO's designed for a specific archetype and that archetype has primary and secondary powerset combinations that can result in no healing powers being available to choose you have a problem. This set bonus isn't bad for these powersets... its non functional. It doesn't work. It does NOTHING.

Now you have to understand there's a difference between a bonus that is inconsequential or not useful vs. a set bonus that relies on you having very specific powers to gain any use out of.

Again... you still dont get it... seriously are you people being intentionally thick headed?

THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER A SET BONUS IS GOOD OR BAD OR OPTIMAL.

THIS IS ABOUT AN IO SET DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY FOR YOUR AT HAVING A SET BONUS THAT AFFECTS POWERS YOUR POWERSET DOES NOT HAVE.

How hard is it for you to understand?

Imagine as a scrapper that the 4pc set bonuses is +10% stun duration... thats a nice bonus... IF you have any powers that can stun

Now the defender set 4pc adds 8% healing... that's a great bonus... IF you have any powers that heal.

This is an archetype specific set.

All powersets should be able to get SOMETHING from each bonus. Even if it was something as "useless" as 4% immob resistance. An 8% healing set bonus does NOTHING if you have no healing powers. And since these sets are meant for a specific AT then ALL the powerset selections for that AT should get some benefit from each set bonus. Currently for defenders this is not the case.

AGAIN this is not about whether a set bonus is good or bad.

It is about a set bonus that DOES NOT FUNCTION for specific primaries of the AT intended to use the set.

I'd prefer the 4 pc bonus to do multiple things INCLUDING a +heal bonus.

Even something as simple as +X% healing and improves the duration of all buffs and debuffs by X% would be acceptable.

An accuracy bonus would be far more useful to a forcefield or sonic defender than a +healing bonus... and all defenders can use accuracy... especially since most of their blast sets apply a debuff.

+healing does NOT benefit powers like health that provide REGEN. There is a fundamental difference to the bonus provided by a healing enhancement (which does enhance a HEALING power and a REGEN power) and a % gain for a HEALING power (Powers such as Reconstruction or Heal other benefit from +heal but powers like Regeneration Aura or Health do not).

And since every AT can get aid self and aid other why not replace the 4pc bonus for EVERY AT specific IO set to a +healing bonus? I am sure the other ATs will be quick to jump on the bandwagon for why a +heal bonus on an AT specific set when some primary powersets of that AT have no healing powers is not a good idea.

That would actually be more useful to EVERY defender than a +heal bonus... now really think about that...

The set bonus in question would be more useful overall if it were like the set bonus controllers get. Take a look at it... you'll see that ONE set bonus buffs the duration of every control type in the game (confusion, sleep, immob, etc) if they can do that for controllers then they sure as hell can do something similar for defenders (ONE set bonus that gives +heal, to hit buffs/debuffs, defense buffs/debuffs, resistance buffs)

Let me just say that crushing impact's immob resistance is FAR more useful to a forcefield or sonic defender than the +heal bonus of the AT SPECIFIC SET. I want you to think about what I am saying there... the immob resistance which we can all agree is laughable as a bonus is STILL BETTER (because it actually does SOMETHING however negligible) than a +heal bonus when you have NO HEAL POWERS.

I honestly think some people are just thick as to why this is a problem for an AT SPECIFIC IO SET.

AGAIN example: Imagine if the CONTROLLER SPECIFIC IO SET set bonus only boosted confuse duration instead of all control types. That would mean controllers with no confuse powers would have a set bonus... IN THERE AT SPECIFIC SET that does NOTHING for them because they HAVE NO POWERS THAT CAN BENEFIT FROM IT.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it. The issue is not that the set bonus is bad (it's not bad its great... IF you have healing powers).... the issue is some power sets for the AT dont have any powers that can benefit from this set bonus. This only only matters in this specific case because it is an AT SPECIFIC SET.

This isn't raging... and it isn't about a "bad" set bonus. It's about a set designed for a specific AT with a bonus that only benefits powers that several of the AT's powersets do not have. Consider what the Controller AT set would be like if one of the set bonuses ONLY buffed confusion duration... when not all controller sets have confusion based powers. That is the issue. A set designed for an AT should have set bonuses that provide some sort of benefit however small no matter what power sets you choose. In the defender's set this is not the case. You can actually choose powersets that leave you with no powers whatsoever that can benefit from this bonus. The bonus should have been closer to the controller set bonus that buffs all the various forms of control.

Example: the set bonus could buff all of the following much like the one controller set bonus buffs all types of controls but instead buffs: to hit buffs, to hit debuffs, defense buffs, defense debuffs, healing, resistance buffs. Then every defender primary could benefit from this bonus. Some would benefit more than others but no set would be left with a set bonus that affects none of their powers.

I was the author of the original topic about the +heal set bonus issue. The issue isn't that a +heal set bonus is bad. The issue was that a +heal set bonus IN A SET DESIGNED FOR A SPECIFIC AT when several of that AT's primary power sets have no ability to heal at all made that particular set bonus unusable (I don't want to use the term useless or bad) by members of the very AT the set was designed for. It would have been like having the Controller AT set have a set bonus that ONLY buffed confusion duration... when not all controllers have confusion powers. Does that make sense?