JupiterMoon

i'm not too keen on the other games departure from instancing.

instancing is still relatively new. city of heroes was a pioneer in many ways.

how many of us remember waiting 'in line' to kill that one gnoll? or that one mob with a 4 hour respawn rate for his drop and hoping you could 'tag' or outdmg everyone else in the area enough to get said drop this time..


this is what happens when you dont have instancing. how many of you played lotro at launch and remember waiting for a certain auroch to respawn in thorins hall? or hogger in wow? or hell nearly any quest in wow outside of the 5 man instances especiall at launch when the overwhelming majority of the entire playerbase was in a couple of newbie zones.


departure from istancing is bad and just shows that perhaps these devs have short memories. i for one - after almost two decades of muds and mmorpgs - do not.

it's pretty damn hard for non-invuln brutes to hit that resist cap

but willpower can hit 60% easily, and usuallyi can get close to 30% def to all typed dmg at the same time - while having really really good regen

you can have all the def and resist in the world, but when the hit does get through you gotta do something with it right?

forge is the best buff in the game. period. you bet your sweet bippy people will be clamoring for or taking their defenders or controllers red side.

red side versions of forge (in thermal and pain which..gee golly..blue side ALSO HAVE) dont have the +15% defense to all

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"Why would you have X AT on your team when you can have Y AT?" is mostly a forum game.

In the actual game, 95% of teams just go with the first eight characters that join. The other 5% leave a spot for a "Healer" until the leader is finally convinced they're not needed.

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this is true, since this is mostly a solo game. there are teams, but they are far and few between unless you have a dedicated crew.

but should this rogue thing end up being nothing more than getting rid of the boundaries and being able to take a ferry from mercy to atlas and back and forth at will - it will be interesting to see. should teaming start to become the norm again outside of MA, and should a time come when there are a ton of people looking for a group - it could become an issue

however, how far do you think an all dom team will go seeing as how you're talking about a totally buffless team? extreme case i know, but something to think about (especially if the dmg buff makes doms fotm for yet MORE farming)

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if your team had a choice between an empathy or kin controller vs. yoru choice of ANY dom combination....yeah. even if you already had a healer you'd take the auras and another forge. even if you already had one kin you'd take a second fulcrum. you know you would.



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At the risk of enabling another tanks are crap thread, having a 50 fire/psi dom myself, teams always prefer it when I give them a choice among my other 50's (which includes a kin, fire/rad, 1 corr, 1 mm, s/s & ss/el brutes & of course tanks & scraprs).

Because you don't need capped Def & buff auras if everything is choking, burning and disappearing in two clicks.

But Tanks play differently, really more superhero-like imo. When I get on one of my tanks it feels like you're playing Superman, more so then the other AT's, especially minus exterior buffs, and that's why (according to dev data mining) they're more popular then you may expect, as is.
ymwv

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Tanker Fun

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um..i wasnt talking about taking a controller OVER a tank. the assumption there was a tanker or three. wehre would a dom fit? honestly, probably nowhere. they still wont do blaster dmg. they dont ahve the blaster bonus. they dont control any better than a conttroller does and in fact - with their being less of an inclination to build for perma dom - makes it hard to justify them a spot in a co-op team under normal conditions.

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Seeing we're in the tank forum and all.....

I think the AT is going to see a substantial rise in demand. Folks in the forums that bother to read and plan builds can probably fill the roll with scrappers, brutes, MMs, insp whatever. But we are a very tiny miniority. Pugdom does not have the patience for such things and will keep screaming "we need a tank!!1!!11" just like they keep insisting on getting a "healer" whatever that is, despite 5 years of proof that practically any def/con/corr/mm will do just as well.

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too true. 5 minutes after logging into atlas park i see this very thing. 'we could do something if we had a tank...'

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and they still lack ANY team buffs, and they still wont be doing corruptor/blaster levels of dmg.


[/ QUOTE ] You missed the part where He Said damage buff. They will be getting blaster level damage. Hell their mods will be .95 for range and 1.25 for melee. Thats hella good enough for me.

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it's a nerf to level 50 doms

https://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat...=0&fpart=54

there's math in the thread behind it.

not a big nerf mind you, but it does make one desire perma-dom less and in fact may no longer need to perma-dom at all.

still, that dom STILL isnt bringing anything to the table that isnt done better by a controller or blaster. in fact, fault or footstomp offer enough soft control for most things that even a controller isnt necessary - unless you couldnt find an empathy or kin defender.

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A... billion? My Shield Tanker is at the cap and he hasn't spent even that 200 million figure you mentioned, sorry. Maybe it's the sets you're going for, as there are some cheap ones out there that can boost your defense still. Also, there isn't much rare salvage out there that is in the millions on the market... I think Empowered Sigils were at 400k last I looked (blueside).

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i'm sorry, where in my post above did i use the term 'tanker'?

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a bots/ff can hit the positional soft cap and has something i dont think scrappers/tanks/brutes can get too easily - -regen

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The problem that such a tankermind has, though, is the near total lack of aggro abilities. Survivability on a team doesn't buy you much when mobs aren't attacking you.

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that's why they take provoke

may only be 5 enemies, but they are still taunted for 30s or so

and believe me, a bots/ff has the power slots to spare to spend on provoke.

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i would fear more for dominators of any at. they would be totaly pointless. permadom isnt a cheap thing to get on a 50 dom

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I think you missed the part where Castle is buffing non-Domination damage to current Domination levels.

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that only helps doms level faster. does nothing for them come 50 when they can slot for perma dom.

and they still lack ANY team buffs, and they still wont be doing corruptor/blaster levels of dmg.

if your team had a choice between an empathy or kin controller vs. yoru choice of ANY dom combination....yeah. even if you already had a healer you'd take the auras and another forge. even if you already had one kin you'd take a second fulcrum. you know you would.


i will say though that mind/psi doms are great at punching through the retardedly overpowered custom enemies people are making in the MA.

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Gonna be hilarious when MMs replace Tankers, Scrappers AND Brutes.

And for that matter .... every other AT.

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and the sad part is they can do this...with almost no io sets

a bots/ff can hit the positional soft cap and has something i dont think scrappers/tanks/brutes can get too easily - -regen

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What you fail to understand is that the majority of players in this game don't fully IO (or even at all) their characters with sets.

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Please provide evidence to back this up. The majority of people that I know in the game do slot at least some sets. Sure, not everyone is going for purple sets, but I know of very few people who don't try to get at least a few sets in their builds.

You don't need to farm to get decent sets on your character. Heck, my completely soloed-to-level 48 Stalker is most IOed out. And my Level 39 Tanker only has a few non-set IOs in his build. I've never farmed with either of those characters, but used drops, the market (not gaming the market, just posting for recipes), merits, and a few tickets to do it.


I'd say that even the average casual player at least assumes some IO slotting in their builds. And while positing that they will only use SOs is fine, I'd say it's far from the truth of what will happen. Even using generic IOs will change a build up.

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it takes a billion or more infamy/influence to gear a shield scrapper/brute to be at the soft cap (depending on server). i realize taht there are so many posts from people who clearly have had the initiative to grind out that much - or abused the living hell out of the meow missions for that much. but that's not as large a percentage of the population as you might think.

if only 1% on average of this games population actively participates in forum discussions, and only a percentage of that 1% has a bilion or more to spend on io sets...

you see where this is going.

i'll never spend more than 200m on any one character, and then i usually cannibalize it if i decide to work on something else. there arent many legit players with billions+. running the tv mission set for 8 people and with me the only person in the actual mission over and over is just barely 1 million for a full clear. obviously i'm never alone nowadays and it's about half that when all 8 are in.

so no, not everyone can afford to io out for a fully soft-capped shields scrapper or brute. not with people wanting 1-3 million for each orange salvage piece.

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You shouldn't need more power slots, really. If you have survivability problems with that much mitigation, something else is wrong.

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My migration is fine against most foes. But when meeting fireclowns or ice zombies or necromancer elves and whatever else there is in the AE, I go down. When I play offtank to the Granite tanker I see them walk through it all, as if it was nothing, as if their resistances and defenses were capped or at least very close. I'd really love to be able to boost my own resistances and defenses to that level.

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ah


yeah. like i pointed out in another thread on the MA, most of the custom enemies are simply too powerful for sub 50's no matter what they sk you to. some of the power sets are just absurd

consider putting io's in your powers. i dont mean the sets, but regular io's. at your elvel they should be giving a higher bonus than so's and they will last till 50 - saving you money

am i reading that right or do you have only three attacks - brawl included?

that's not enough. dead mobs = mitigated mobs. you should have no less than 3 attacks from your secondary by this time which with boxing should make a nice chain.

you also have a small aoe taunt with each hit. tankers need to smash. taunt alone isnt enough (and is limited in targets)

most likely the problem is the fights are taking too long. something i saw during the meow weekend when i'd compare how fast heroes were kiling those spawns vs. villains. heroes-took a bloody long time for each pack. so many tanks had little to no offense. go redside and you'd get the opposide - faceplanting brutes. but those few brutes and tanks who knew how to balance it out made it a breeze - and quick

your offense cant be ignored. not in this game.

scrappers and brutes are pretty even dmg wise until the scrapper crits.

really as i play it more i'm hoping to hell they never give scrappers stone melee. it's the highest single target dps set for brutes and it's pretty beastly on tankers even vs. smashing resistant enemies.

i would fear more for dominators of any at. they would be totaly pointless. permadom isnt a cheap thing to get on a 50 dom - assuming you lasted 50 levels and werent plevelled the entire way - and with the lack of any support secondary a dom simply doesnt bring anywhere near as much to a team as a controller - especialy since said controller can pick up a couple of nukes post 40 and play just like a freakin dom - perhaps better with the +dmg from containment.

no. as it is right now there's alot of hybridization between the classes. scrappers and tanks and brutes are pretty similiar. it's however substantiallyi harder for a brute to hit those tank-level resist caps than a tank since they start out with scrapper level defenses.

we will still see most people soloing. we will still see people rolling up mostly willpower (or shield if rich and with a long-term plan). we will still not see all that many masterminds (thre really arent that many masterminds who make it to 50 red side...it's a finesse class and can be extremely frustrating at times for some people)


this could be a good thing. i've been tempted to go back blue side, but i'm so invested red side from the last 3 years now that i cant fathom it. i would love to experience the new hero content that's been released in the last three years...on my brute or mastermind.

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that's just nihili for ya kruunch. for someone whos been here a relatively short time he's alittle too arrogant.

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To be entirely blunt, I think people who have missed out on a year or twos worth of content are guilty of the exact same thing. I personally don't care if someone is making their first post or ten thousandth, what matters to me is the content of that post.


On a different I've never seen anyone solo tank Romulus, but I think it's entirely possible. You'd need:

*) Soft capped defense to deal with most of the damage
*) Preferably strong def resistance to handle Romulus's debuffs
*) A periodic self heal (or strong enough regen) to handle the auto-hit Nictus (namely Siphon Life / Aid Self)

If you allow for inspiration use, then it'd be even easier if you're prepared. The whole discussion is fairly meaningless imo; the likelyhood of being on a TF with absolutely no support (no Defenders, Controllers, Corruptors, VEATs, or team buffing power like Leadership/Grant Cover) is practically nil.

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true, but i can admit when i was wrong.

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I can easily take 10 bosses with my /EA. I regularly run an all boss mission solo with him and herd the aggro cap without a problem. My /EA is softcapped to all defenses except negative energy and psi

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A well-built EA will have no trouble surviving most situations, but still won't be a good "tank" though because someone will be stripping aggro off of them on a team. You can get the attention back with an AoE, but a few seconds later it's just going to turn around after it's been shot again.

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This is very true. It is very hard to hold aggro with /EA without taking taunt.

edit: OP's question was what will survive, I was answering that. The only brute I have played that can tank is my /stone, the rest of mine can soak up the alpha but that isn't tanking

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can the stone also kill said bosses without a kin corruptor around?

say it's those same super arachnoids with their super high regen.

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My personal opinion now is you're out of touch with the game, and you seem so proud of having been playing the game in I1 you won't listen to any experience that is different to your own. So I won't try to tell you anything.

I'll suggest, however, that if you want to participate in serious discussions about performance, you should play the game more often and take a look at real numbers, using the ingame attribute monitor, paragonwiki or coh.redtomax - for example, you might see that these "huge" recovery bonuses from purple sets are about 4%, or that Shield and Willpower have no power benefiting from recharge bonuses.

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Ahhhh the cry of the anguished who are disagreed with.

Here is what my experience is and this is from beta and I1, and again in I4 when I came back, and again in I7 when I came back and yet again in I13 when I came back (I've been back and playing almost everyday since March by the way):

When you tell someone they can't do something, 90% of those who disagree run up here and claim the impossible just to "prove" that it can be done. I used to spend time debunking a lot of those crap posts in-game and now I just call BS when it sounds and smells like BS. Like all those who have posted Mid's builds which they thought would work only to admit they didn't even run those builds (and/or their precious respecs didn't hold up to what they were bragging about when side by side with me).

5% of those who disagree rush up here to post what they've done only to find out that they (and me) had misconceptions of what was originally posted. Havoc (an old time tanker) got really annoyed when I said that an I1 Regen Scrapper couldn't tank what I could, so he ran out and grabbed up 40 nemesis and solo'd them down (not run and gun). I then took him to Crey's Folley and pulled over 100 Freakshow and solo'd those (ever so much more slowly). He tried the samething and got flattened. He was making the point that his Scrapper could tank all but the most extreme encounters in the game, while I was making the point that I could tank things his Scrapper couldn't. A miscommunication on both our parts (since both our points were valid).

4% can actually do what they say they can do, but usually under optimal conditions (i.e. support).

The last 1% actually can do what they claim under the conditions that were discussed and actually prove me wrong (it's actually less then 1% since this has only happened to me once).

So turning what you said back on yourself, I'd suggest if *you* want to participate in serious discussions, you actually listen to those who have had more experience in the game then you have.

P.S. - Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that a Tanker's secondary is a huge part of their tanking ability doesn't even belong in this forum. Your recharge comment is so ridiculous as to merit it's own definition in Webster's Dictionary.

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that's just nihili for ya kruunch. for someone whos been here a relatively short time he's alittle too arrogant.

your posts are always welcome and informative

now consider the same mission but instead of freakshow bosses, it's all super arachnoids

i put in 5 for a global recharge reduction. dont remember the set name.

i'm thinking more along the lines of a dm/shield

i was able teo build one that wasnt TOO expensive that capped positionals. the expensive part was the lotg's i put in other spots and the single steadfast protection 3% def. i dont think mako's bite, performance shifter (outside of the one), and touch of death are super expensive anymore. obliteration and aegis might be though. this is what i came up with. i like the idea of a self heal in siphon life and the dmg buff in against all odds stacking with soul drain and fury in said situation

(yes i'm buildling a farming toon that isnt ss/fire that can also do dev created content that is far less BORING to play than my mm's)

below is the build. when you ignore the lotg recharge baddies it doesnt seem like it would be all that expensive. i could be wrong - i havent looked at touch of death, mako and oblit pricing in a while i just know the ones i have arent selling at all

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy &amp; Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1387;675;1350;HEX;|
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|62618821A406A4397B6D214D29644DFFC003E28177DF28BE8 37F01A3F8726467DF4|
|5267E6BF2521BE79D2FE7F7B6667766667F7641FCEF9957A7 C4559BE6B957CBD9EB|
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|019254FD53|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|</pre><hr />

so a billion-dollar brute then? oof.

Situation - MA mission with 8 people. only spawns freakshow bosses. there are 10 of them per spawn.

what brute secondary is going to survive this outside of stone? dont assume any outside buffs are present as with the villain side population on infinity such things cant be considered reliable.

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I can understand the concept of Achilles Heel and ToLG (shadow) in both Soldiers and Spec Ops but is it worth it in thug Enforcers? I would be losing the 2x +21% Def IO’s ( for over +8% total def ) from their Maneuvers, or even worse 2 x Damage IO’s.

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err...manuevers is 7% base from each enforcer unless that was recently changed

i had to relog twice for the files to save. didnt try different file names.


odd bug