Johnny_Butane

Are you suggesting the game would be better off if Stalkers and Tankers were the only melee ATs? That I can agree with.



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I know you play on Pinnacle. It's under your avatar.

I say 'pretty sure' because at the time I looked at the global of the character in question and noted it was one of the forum regulars who liked to show up in my threads and antagonize. And they said at the time that they didn't typically play on my sever.

The person said something along those lines too. You sure it wasn't you?


How kind.
You'd never know it was me because as I said, I tank with a smile and nobody (who knows what they're talking about)complains about the quality and you wouldn't recognize my accounts/characters anyways.

S'funny. I'm working on a Claws/SR Brute on and off since GR launched. He just hit 27. I'll let you know when he faceplants.



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What special advantages do these things afford Tankers?

Surely they're the most popular AT then with all of those perks? The richest AT on average?

No? Which AT is according to the devs then? Oh...Scrappers? Hmm. How about that.


The "benefit" Tankers get for those attributes is special responsability for the team's wellbeing. Often they're expected to do it on their own with no support. They're the first that get the blame if things go south in my observation, and as others here have pointed out, are expected to carry all-Blaster (read: bad/nightmare)teams.

Tankers are a relatively unpopular AT. They lost to being the least rolled blue side to Defenders in the last info released by the devs. They're asked a lot by teams, more than any AT I've ever seen. I've personally taken more crap on my Tankers than on all other ATs combined. Nobody tells my Crab how to Crab. Nobody says boo to my Blasters. People let Scrappers run wild and even give it an affectionate name. Yet, every two-bit two-month wonder thinks he knows what my Tankers should be capable of at level 5. Yet in game, I tank with a smile and I'm personally sought after. In fact, I'm pretty sure one 2XP weekend Bill sat in AE while one of my Tankers farmed for him and friends.

Tankers are asked a lot, yet they don't get a lot in return. The myth that they "get on teams more" and that somehow offsets their soloing is bogus because any Scrapper at any time can form a team themselves.


Because I love buffing the damage of Scrappers I'm teamed with further while already giving them a huge survivability boost by absorbing damage.



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Anyone trying to justify soloing AVs and Pylons intended for raid teams doesn't get to comment on game balance. Period.

The "concept" is that the devs let some ATs get away with anything, get to be generally better in every way that matters, get to solo best and get the same rewards on teams as everyone else and get to start a team like anyone else.
I don't want to "get" that concept because it's not balanced or fair.


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I've never had Brutes pull aggro from my Tankers.


How does "My IOed Tanker" = Invul?


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I didn't talk about my Invul Tanker fighting MIs at all. Learn to read.

I can't turn off Gauntlet and my survivability aura taunts on its own.

I know how to play. It's just unlike you, with my AT of choice I don't get to have my cake and eat it too.


With their existing caps, Scrappers can muster enough survivability to solo just about whatever they want... and do it faster.

The reason I have no opposite number on the Scrapper forums demanding higher mitigation caps for Scrappers is because they have as much as they'll ever want. When you're already optimal (or OP), you don't fight for anything.


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No, it's not balanced one bit.

If it was balanced, Scapppers wouldn't be able to obtain the survivability needed to solo an AV, nor would Tankers be able to muster the damage needed to.

Scrappers being able to muster the damage AND survivability to solo AVs, and (provided there's even Tankers capable of soloing AVs at all) doing it faster than a Tanker isn't balanced. It favours the Scrapper completely.

Bill, you're the biggest hypocrite on these boards. You got your cake and ate it too, and you mock anyone who asks the devs for some.



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I know Vanguard.

You know who suffers on a TF or team mission with Vanguard-type enemies? Tankers.
Foes on taskforces that hit harder only screw over Tankers because Tankers are the ones getting hit. If the enemies break off or are taunt resistant, the Tanker gets chewed out for not eating the aggro and doing his job. If the enemies spam AoE, people cry for Reverse Bodyguard or some tripe.

Solo, foes who stack debuffs screw over ATs who take longer to defeat them because they get a chance to stack more. If you're Scrapper who can AoE a number of them before most get a shot off, you're in a much better situation. My IOed Tanker stuggled against Master Illusionists that my Scrapper could take down before they could summon all their pets and then phase repeatedly. Before he got Def debuff protection in the Invul buff, my "Invulnerable" Tanker got hacked to bits by Cimeroran swords while my Blaster could nuke the heck out of them in seconds unscratched.

Any new content they have up their sleeves is going to be the same.


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Because that's unacceptable, but clawed six-minute Pylon killers are A-OK.



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The fact is, the closer you are to either end of the spectrum (be you Glass Cannon or Stone Wall) the less you benefit from power creep. Scrappers and Brutes sit (too IMO)comfortably near the middle.


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All of those will likley function better for a Scrapper than a Tanker. A Scrapper's Judgement attack will do more damage than a Tankers. Even if they're the same and ignore damage mods, the Scrapper will still be doing more damage with every other attack.

All this means, is that a Scrapper will be able to nuke a conventional spawn before the enemies even seriously hurt them.

This, in addition to being level shifted, will almost always put the Scrapper at the advantage.

How much -regen does the Interface slot in question provide? Can you say? No, you can't. How much does a GM resist that debuffing simply by being a GM?

Even if it's enough -regen for a Tanker to down a GM, simply cap Defense on a Scrapper and he can down that same GM, and faster than the Tanker.

The deck is stacked against Tankers because in this game, more survivability is easy to build for from a variety of sources and doesn't really require a reciprocating loss of damage. Scrappers and Brutes are very close to the optimal survivability they'd ever need and can get more if they want.

Survivability has diminishing returns. Increasing survivability is increasingly less usefull and will aid you in a smaller and smaller number of situations. On the other hand, returns on more damage does not diminish nearly as sharply; increasing levels of damage will contintue to be usefull until you get to the point where you're one-shotting GMs.

Also, since defeated enemies deal no damage, increaeing damage past a point has the indirect effect of increasing survival time.

In this environment, an AT with medium damage and high survivability will always be at a loss and disadvantaged to ATs with high damage and medium survivability.



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They wrote a description on the box that contradicts their definition, a definition that they only decided to enforce after the fact. It's very much their fault they lied, and they continue to lie by not changing the box's print.


Would that be the half you made up in your mind?


Not on a Tanker.


I don't think bad teams should be rewarded, and I don't think Tankers carrying bad teams helps anyone in the long run.


So, you were the person who pulled a bunch of monsters to the saferock the other night a half hour before the raid while people were AFK?

I think you actually griefed the raid there. IIRC, once U'Kon is aggroed, the bombs planted after that don't count to the timer.

Actually, I expect you're dead wrong. The system was designed to uniformly increase everyone's power level (as uniformly as they can at least). That means an Incarnate Scrapper/Brute will be stronger to all existing enemies, and they'll still be doing more damage than an Incarnate Tanker.


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Air power usually devastates any rail system, what with trains needing tracks and tracks being unable to dodge bombs and Hellfire missiles and such.

I disagree. What it comes down to (again with a vehicle metaphor) is that the devs handed us a box labled "M1A1 Abrams" and inside was found a M113 because they couldn't tell the difference and didn't care.

So? He can't scratch a DE Monster. Even if he could muster that damage on a Tanker, it would be a long, drawn out fight for little XP or reward. To actually do anything to said Monster, he'd need a team. If there's a team present, why not have a Brute tanking that Monster with the team's support? What circimstances will you be fighting DE Monsters anyways? A Hami raid? There's so many buffs and debuffs flying that "tanking" isn't really needed. Everyone is crowded around the Monsters with heals and defense/res buffs taking care of any damage and nobody cares who the Monster is aggro'd to.

For that matter, if one wants to just stand next to a DE Monster and not die, just roll a Stalker with Hide.




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I demand that the equivalent villain Achievement badge now be renamed "Goofus".



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Is that proper order too? Why would they associate the AoE team buff with Destiny? I seem to recall asking myself then too, so likely that is the right order.


So anyways, there's the other four. It's anyone's guess what they do because they were empty when last they were seen.

The question is, will you craft Peter Gabriel or Phil Collins?


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I would argue that it's not like slotting enhancements like we've traditionally had and more like gear found in other MMOs. Gear that is crafted, upgradable, able to be equipped and unequipped but is not tradable, does not degrade, has unlimited uses and presumably takes up no space.


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The preview with the Alpha that was supposed to come before i19 now is i19.

i19 is now i20.

Presumably, i21 is now the color orange, and the color orange is now the concept of "squishy".

Until Positron "clears things up" again.

The net result is likely everything has been pushed back three to four months, drawing things out longer.

Handy for keeping the attention of people who bought GR for the Incarnate system (and felt ripped off so are now just waiting for their endgame). Those people are less likely to drop their sub until they see what Incarnates/endgame is all about for themselves. If they know that earlier, they may decide they don't like what they see and could drop their subs... just in time to try and maybe get sucked in by another super hero game launching in the near future. Perhaps? /tinfail hat


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Yeah, I've been spewing vitrol about it for the past couple weeks along with the Party Pack.



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Well, judging from the current scuttlebutt, this is what they have done. IIRC, what was said at Pax Prime this year and a recent article linked from the main page implied as much.

The Incarnate "stuff" in i19 will be the Alpha slot, the arc to unlock the Alpha Slot and the Alpha Strike TFs. Again, I don't remember the exact sources off hand, maybe Golden Girl remembers.


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In the beta, the Alpha slot wasn't that bad, but then again, it was. Let me explain.

You could unlock it by doing any of the level 50 TFs or Hami only once. Alternatively, it could be unlocked with a number of Vanguard merits (roughtly as many as people average on a mothership raid).

Mind you, that just unlocks the slot.

I conjecture, that it doesn't work like that any more and you will instead unlock it via a soloable arc that introduces you to the Incarnate system to be added in i19.

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After the Alpha slot was unlocked, things became complicated.

The slot was empty, and you needed to craft an "enhancement" for it. Each "enhancement" had a recipe. You already had every recipe, but you needed to aquire the special salvage to build it.

The basic salvage components were called Incarnate Shards. Shards had a chance to drop off of any enemy at 50+ and also you got X number of shards for running Hamidon.

Shards were combined to form Basic Salvage parts like 'Grai' Matter' 'Blood of the Incarnate' etc. Every enhancement recipe required you to obtain specific salvage parts that it required.

Besides combining Shards to make them, specific Basic Salvage parts would drop as the reward for the level 50 TF associated with them. If you needed 'Blood of the Incarnate' for example, you could run a STF and get it, usually faster than grinding for Shards alone to combine to make it.

So, you got your Basic Salvage parts to make your Alpha enhancement and you craft it from your Incarnate screen. Done, right?

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Wrong. You've just made a Common Alpha enhancement. That is just the first level. The enhancement levels go from Common to Uncommon, Rare and then Ultra Rare, each more potent than the last. IIRC, only Rare and Ultra Rare apply a level shift.

How do you upgrade? I forget exactly, but it requires more Shards and I think sacrificing two Common enchancments to craft an Uncommon, with the numbers of Shards and enhancments needed to upgrade growing exponentially as you go.

The (sort of)good news? In the beta it looked as if you could get the stuff to make a single Common Alpha with only four hours of hard grinding level 50 enemies solo for raw Shards. Obviously, that's the longest route to take, and running the TF with a team would speed things up considerably.

That's how things were in the beta. By the time i19 gets here, things may be different. You may only be able to get salvage parts from the new Alpha Strike TF coming in i19 instead of from the other level 50 TFs. Who can say?

So yeah. Four hours investment plus the time to do an unlocking arc solo to get the bare bones Alpha Slot isn't that bad, and you can chase it further if you feel like it.

Plus, A.B.S.: Always Be Stockpiling...shards, for when you want to start chasing upgrades again.



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Siege? The version I'm talking about is not in the arc. It's a standalone mission Maria gives out either before or after the arc.

Siege also shows up in the old Hero's Hero arc in a mission with Nightstar, but he's his normal old Energy Melee/Energy Blast self there (and in AE if you make a mission with him).



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Perhaps he was held with Domination and it kept the heal from going off at 1/4 health?

Or, as I said, he could simply have been fixed in the last month. I've not fought him since because there's no easy way to repeat that mission after you do it. It's a one-off that isn't currently in Ouroboros.


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That's always how I've seen the cosmology. Primal Earth has an attic with the Shard, but maybe other universes don't. Maybe some do, but their attic is decorated and nice while Primal's just has piles of angry eyeballs and the cast of 'Cocoon: The Return'.


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I wont even call it a Crime Syndicate(then) vs Justice Lords(now) kind of shift. The Crime Syndicate had goals, methods; they're super powered organized crime on a world scale.

But we had Tyrant sitting on a throne loarding over a smoking ruin of a world with zombies for subjects. That's evil for evil's sake; ie stupid.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...aysChaoticEvil
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ForTheEvulz


Praetoria 2.0 was more of a shift to this for the most part:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph.../PresidentEvil
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulEvil

All the old arc stuff was written for the first set of tropes, and the new stuff is distinctly different and thus doesn't really fit anymore IMO.


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