Jebe_the_Pirate

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And this is why I wont back this suggestion.

Not only are you still saying Tankers must hit like girls even when not holding back, they also have to be scared about it as well.

There's no point in them holding back their power when their power is still dwarfed by Scrappers, Stalkers, Brutes and Blasters.

You miss the entire point of the "holding back" concept. Tankers wanting to keep themselves in check when they've got the potential to destroy little guys like raging Brutes makes them prudent. Them being gun shy when they're still only packing a BB rifle just makes Tankers timid wusses.

If you can't execute that concept with this suggestion for balance considerations, then I'm not going to back the suggestion. Let me know if you come up with a suggestion that allows for the proper implementation of the concept.

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I see what J_B is saying. In his words, why hold back even if you know you hit like a girl.

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Also: if the buff requires herds, what happens in AV fights where the foe is only one? That's the points where this feature is the most useful at as the fight can last long with rather low damage.

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That's what I meant. Less damage bonus with more foes being splashed checked by gauntlet. Sorry it didn't come out that way.

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I don't see this as necessary but if it's being proposed... then purely for the sake of this discussion, using the gauntlet inherent to increase its solo validity and for the purpose of increasing single target damage, why not not add a damage % with diminishing returns based on the amount of gauntlet splash checks per attack? And no, I'm not proposing a stacking effect either.

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Because that would force the tanker into herding practices for one.

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Well what level of damage bonuses to base are we talking here? Did I miss this number on your OP? If I did sorry and I'll reread. Well instead of diminishing returns what about an inverse bonus based on the amount of gauntlet splash checks with max splash checks = 0 damage bonus and by calculating what this damage bonus would be so that aoe>ST in total damage+end efficiency.

On another note what about an increase based on relative con and rank? Hmm, wait I already see an issue with all tank GM teams.

I don't see this as necessary but if it's being proposed... then purely for the sake of this discussion, using the gauntlet inherent to increase its solo validity and for the purpose of increasing single target damage, why not not add a damage % with diminishing returns based on the amount of gauntlet splash checks per attack? And no, I'm not proposing a stacking effect either.

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What if our own debuffs applied to us as well?

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Then I'd be screwed. I'm an archer.

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Yeah but then you can also target yourself with healing arrow.

I'm down.

I totally understand about the cost. I just spent a much larger than expected amount of influence reslotting a DA scrapper. It seems prices have gone up so much within the last month, hell even the last 2 weeks.

Some things I'd like to add to what's already been said...

I suggest adding Theft of essence proc in Dark Regen. The proc can turn DR into an end gain power when used on groups of mobs.

Consider adding +recovery uniques to health. Personally, this should be the only type of +recovery you should look for. Any +recovery included with more important set bonuses is fine but not a priority over +max end. Which brings me too...

Very low +max end. This is how you increase your +recovery AND end pool.

Zero Taunt aura. Sure you can go without but DA's auras have good effects against minions and possibly bosses. Death Shroud has damage which turns it into a minion muncher. Oppress Gloom can stun mitigation all incoming damage (bosses if you take a secondary with stun). Since you took DM, CoF would do nicely to stack fears and adds -to-hit which adds to your defense. Yes it will need considerable slotting but the effects of fear stacking should not be dismissed. Also, groups will complain about aggro management. Sure you may be the champion of punchvoke but it takes time to punchvoke all incoming aggro. Accuracy and taunt auras save you time and effectively squishy lives.

Spines/Dark is great for carnies,

You still do this and blame it on PB's and nrg blasters.

Looking better...

One quick note on the altered build. Remove that end redux slot in shadow punch and add it to dark regen instead. In SP you're only saving yourself 0.69 endurance while saving yourself 7.2 in DR per cast. Overall the total amount of recovery is much better although I did notice you still slotted for +recovery instead of combining for +max end. Also think about adding the miracle unique to health.

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You know if its anything Energy Melee, im gonna give it an A+, but for Dark Armor, I'm going to have to respectuflly disagree with you Talen. DA suffers from tons of end drainage. Seven toggles arent exactly stam friendly, so synergizing with DM would be fitting for the Dark Consumption power. Though any AT can be coupled with anything, its really how comfortable you wish to be. I say go with DM for the health and end mitigation, or stone for the aoe stun locks (fault and tremor), gives you time to heal or deal some dmg.

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Yes, synergizing with Dark Armor is important but it's in synergizing the secondary with your mitigation, not Dark Consumption if you're running with IO's. They will negate any issues you have with endurance if you make sure to socket for end redux and bonuses.

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That's what IO's are for. +recovery is usually (always?) the first bonus in a set that has it so you can frankenslot for it cheap. My shield tank runs 7 toggles. My defender without Stamina runs 5. Neither has Conserve Power, because they don't need it.

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I would advise you socket for +max end and not +recovery. All of this is explained in my sig.


As for which secondary to pick, you can really choose anything. However fear or stun stacking will greatly add to your mitigation.

I'm thinking so long as the pulled groups remain in the debuff zones (with coordination), enough stacked debuffs and maybe some sort of control it should be enough for that type of run. But this is speculation on my part. I've always put off running lvl's because I honestly thought the reward/time ratio was less than 52's. But if it's close as it was explained above, I think it would be worth giving it a shot. Kioshi, make a defender and join us on Justice.

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How do you do an L54 (or even L52) boss farm with no Tankers and do it quickly? I run with an L50 (heavily IO'd) Dark/Dark Defender quite often and he pulls mobs fine but doesn't provide near the protection needed for a fast run.

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Edit: And while yes, making a build that can do it is more than possible (heck I have it in Mid's already), I can't justify putting 2-3billion at this time. What with the other defenders, tanks and scrappers aching for influence.

That's because I'm not setup for enough recharge (yet) to run at that speed and the reason I pull. The tank (when it's not you) usually doesn't pull enough or fast enough and I get impatient. When everything's up, lvl 52's are floored, immobile, feared, slowed, doing 30 less damage, taking 30 more damage, and sometimes stunned. Oh and if I'm not flying, you're also getting to-hit, +dmg and defense. If running 54's then you'd compensate for the level difference but that's when debuff stacking (as in more debuffers) really comes into play. Then again, either you or mitch can roll a D3

Hey, I voted on that damned mish and now it's like they didn't count. What is this, Iran?!

Did the republishing wipe out votes for all or just Kruunch?

If you discount changes to secondaries for Assasin AT then no. Only thing I can think of are name changes like fire/thermal shields and then taunt/confront. Anyone else know?

The issue here is why would/which Conserve Power stay since it would be available twice. Under Energy Mastery for Tankers and Body Mastery for Scrappers.

I encourage you to post any differences. Remember this is a compilation and any insight is welcomed. You may be taking some things into account that I did not emphasize. For example the majority of builds I'll post here will not include purples to show that a high level of survivability can be attained at a reasonable cost in IO's. However, all bets are off on the fearmonger build. I want a lot +accuracy on it. Now I'm only pressed as to whether I want to give up Super Jump or Smite to make room for the 3 powers in Presence.

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*cough* Cheby *cough*

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Port in, port out. >.> What?

I think the guy has a very important factor missing from his calculations which then leads him to believe Arcana's is wrong. To me, it sounds like he's multiplying defense percentages by magnitude levels. Or hell, it could be that he thinks accuracy and to-hit are the same thing.

Depending on whether or not they replace CP, EA/DM looks promising.

Also, SD/EM looks like double port win. Wait a sec, that looks even better on scrappers!

If you're not planning on exemplaring then power selection is not as big deal except for what you choose last. Here's what I suggest with slotting and if you plan on exemping…

<ul type="square">[*]Anything more than 4 slotting Reactive Armor is a waste of slots, unless you're 2 slotting steadfast with it.[*]Like Findulias already pointed out, taking stamina at 28 is a bad idea, especially with tough and weave toggles before it.[*]For the purposes of tanking, taunt is better suited at 12 than kick. Also, kick has better slotting possibilities than damage. For example, S/L defense or kb protection.[*]It looks like you're still ~10% short of the soft cap (Can't verify at work).[*]Dark Regen is heavily underslotted and no compensation for endurance. This is going to burn through your end bar.[*]The loss of 3.13% positional defenses in 3 slotting zephyr is ok since you're focused on S/L. Use the slots in Dark Regen .[*]With its current slotting, Death Shroud will eat through your end bar. It needs more end reduction.[*]Don't use conserve power to compensate for your lack of end reduction slotting and expect it to balance out.[*]Slotting for Regen is wasted. You will never achieve acceptable amounts of regen if you're depending on this to get you through without using dark regen. And once you do use it, your end bar will disappear faster than Houdini. And you will be using it, like I said earlier, if you're still short ~10% S/L defense from the soft capped. This means you'll be hit 3 times as much if you were softcapped. [/list]

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Twilightphoenix:

An interesting build. Nifty demo. I'll point out, however, that the character has only 10-12% Defense, no resistance and half the damage output of the Scrapper without Criticals.
As I say, mine is something of a concept build, being an Iron Man homage, so the need for some significant melee ability had to be considered. It may not be optimal, but I consider it a flaw in the class if you have to build one specific way to be viable.

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Therein lies the problem, you have a fixed concept set in your mind and are disappointed that it does not perform the way YOUR vision expects it to perform. That hardly justifies a need to rebalance the entirety of the class, especially when the class as a whole does so well in EVERY FACET OF THE GAME.

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still trying to get those KCs tho, much harder to come by

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As long as I keep making DA tanks and continue to outbid you, you will never see these IO's, muahahahaha!

I want to see an AE that replicates the mission where you defeat Tyrant and release Statesman. Based on Statesman's lvl and rank and AE modifiers as explained by Arc, states should be hitting KO Blow on minions for 80k assuming they keep lvl 50 resistances.