Human_Being

That power supply should be a little noisier than one of the Corsairs, which basically can't be beat in quality at their market-points, but there's nothing wrong with it and I don't see something else that can match that deal for you.

"Newb" is not an indictable offense here .

If you have any other questions about anything, please feel free to ask. Welcome to the Game .

Wait, what? There is no such animal. Did you meant 9500 GT, or perhaps GTX 295?

That works.

A Corsair 650 Watt (or larger if you prefer) of some flavor if you're on a budget (they've got whole families of solid quality PSUs and you won't find better quality at their price points).

Enermax Modu82+ 625 Watt if you want even higher build quality at a higher price tag.

And if price is no object, a Seasonic Gold X-650 or X-750 for an impeccable PSU that you could pass down to your grandkids.


EDIT: Links added.

All processors now have a throttling technology that will just shut themselves down before slagging like that.

I expect you already know from your reading, but just in case you missed it: a feature of the Core i5s and i7s is that they will overclock themselves depending on their current heat-load. An unmodified Core i5-750 rated at 2.66 GHz will happily speed itself up to over 3 GHz when using two or fewer cores; without input from the user. When using three or more cores, it will slow down to around its rated 2.66 GHz.


I don't know anything about i5s suffering in Crossfire or SLI, but do you want to go to dual graphics cards in the first place?

Unless it's a very good 500 Watt PSU, it's going to struggle with that GTX 285. Moreso if it's an aging power supply. EVGA lists the 285 as needing "minimum 550 W power supply". I found a BFG Tech brand one that gives a more specific "Combined 42 Amps" on the +12V rails. Can you read off the individual and/or combined ratings for the +12V rails on the side of your PSU?

We started off in this branch of the conversation when you looked at what was in front of you and felt there was something "off" about it, so you tell me .


It's the economy. Despite network news talking-heads harping about "incipient recovery - any time now", most retailers stocked very little holiday inventory. So what little they have can sell out if there's any demand; as in the case of a popular product model.

Then you want at least a quad-core processor. CoX (currently) will use up to two cores per running session. If you had two sessions running, they would work well on a quad.

Some games are more dependent upon a particular component of the computer than others. Most lean heavily on some aspect of the graphics card. A handful though are "processor limited" and want lots and lots of cores running stupidly fast regardless of the graphics card. If you'd told the dealer you wanted to specifically play one of those games, I could see him suggesting the i7-920. That's a $290 chip, and is the beginning entry of Intel's "Socket 1366" performance-enthusiast line.

For a Quad CPU that has enough speed to be flexible for other games, I'd look for something like the Core 2 Quad Q8400 2.66 GHz ($160), Core 2 Quad Q9400 2.66 GHz ($180), or Core i5-750 2.66 GHz ($200).

The first two are older "Socket 775" chips. The socket type determines what processors your motherboard can take. A 775 motherboard can't mount a 1366 chip, and vice versa. The difference between the Q8400 and Q9400 is that the Q9400 has slightly more on-chip memory than the other, and will perform slightly better in some applications because of it. Because of the older (but still work-horse) motherboards and RAM type that comes with Socket 775, these will be your slightly cheaper systems as well.

The third chip, Core i5-750, is from Intel's new "Socket 1156" line. Socket 1156 is newer, cheaper, and slightly less capable than the 1366 type...or said a different way, they got rid of the extra junk that most gamers didn't really need and certainly didn't want to pay for =P. The Core i5-750 is a quad-processor CPU that is more advanced than the Core 2 quads, with much better power management capabilities (costs you less money to run it) and the ability to dynamically overclock itself depending on how much of the chip you are currently using. If you are only using two cores, the Core i5-750 will cheerfully increase its speed up to around 3+ GHz. If you start using three or four cores at the same time, it will slow back down to around the rated 2.66 GHz. The i5-750 also uses a faster memory format than the Socket 775 setup. Because of the extra capability and newness, the motherboard and ram that comes with the i5-750 will cost a few dollars more than the one for a Socket 775. It will cost *significantly* less than for a Socket 1366 computer.


For RAM, 4 GB is plenty. You'll want the 64 bit version of Windows 7 though. The 32 bit version can only see and use a little over 3 GB of ram, no matter how much is actually put in the machine.

It is one of the better ones out there. Both ATI and Nvidia divide their offerings into "performance", "mainstream", and "budget" tiers. Budget cards are for pushing spreadsheets around on a screen. Mainstream is what they figure most gamers are going to be able to afford. Performance is for people who want really pretty games and have the money to throw at it. The "GTX" cards are Nvidia's Performance line and the GTX 260 ($180) is the beginning offering in that line. Above it are the GTX 275 ($260) and the GTX 285 ($370). Note that the 275 is only around 20% faster than the 260, despite being 45% more expensive. (Ergo my earlier statement about where I'd send $100 removed from the processor; not that the 260 is bad in and of itself. Generally these days, the graphics card of a computer will be more expensive than the processor it's paired with; that's not a hard rule though.)

On the ATI side of things, the new Radeon HD 5770 ($180) will function around the level of the GTX 260. The Radeon HD 5850 ($300) will function around the level of the GTX 285. And the Radeon HD 5870 ($400) doesn't have a performance equal right now.

Whether you should go with ATI or Nvidia is a larger discussion with situational answers that I don't feel like typing right now. Those are names you'll want to be looking for when shopping though.

That should get you a really solid machine, and you could probably do just fine with something a little cheaper too - depending on what pre-made vendors are offering.

Other particulars about a prospective computer are situational and I wouldn't want to go into a pointless laundry list. If you're interested, you can read the computer component guide in Father Xmas' sig and see his prospective $600 and $1200 CoX computer builds.

Will you be getting a new monitor with this computer as well? If so, what size and resolution is it and what monitor are you using now? As resolution goes up, the amount of graphics processing power to run it grows multiplicatively.


EDIT: An AMD Phenom II x4 (~$140+) is also a quad-core processor that you might find some vendors offering.

Will it run CoX well? Yes. That i7-920 is kind of overkill though (about $100 worth of overkill). You also don't really need the more-expensive motherboards that the 920s plug into that require (more expensive) triple-stick RAM instead of the double-channels that all other formats use. Nine GB of RAM is a nice size to grow in to, but right now 6 would be plenty (or even four in double-channel format). I think that money would serve better going towards a beefier graphics card (though the GTX 260 is not at all a wimp) if you were going to spend that much.

Were you given any other options? Also, what budget are you looking to spend on the new machine?

EDIT: And are there other games you were definitely planning on playing with it?

Oh I'd love for some manufacturer to work through the thought problem and solve all the issues I have with common cases. But no one has despite the simple change that would solve pretty much all of them...


The source of the problem is the positioning of the optical drive bay and the CPU cooler. The drive mounting cage is where it is for entirely valid ergonomic reasons. If the computer is on the floor, you don't want the optical drive at the bottom because then you have to reach all the way down to use it. If the computer is on a desk, it's likely you could have something on the desk in the way of the disk tray opening if it was at the bottom. Putting the optical drive(s) at the top-front of the case is the logical place. But if you have the cage there, it's difficult to have a fan feeding air directly to the CPU also.

Lots of case designs try to work around this via a Rube Goldberg arrangement of fans that have right-angled turns in air flow and serpentine pathways for cool air to reach hot components. Many of these end up recycling their exhaust air back in after it's been heated. Others lower the motherboard down somewhat and place the power supply at the top. This, however, puts two of the three hottest components right next to each other (CPU and Power Supply; GPU being the third) and makes the CPU and GPU compete for the same partial airstream from a front-middle fan (a bottom fan only blowing over the expansion slots).


There is a fix for this though, and it's really simple, nay, obvious: flip the motherboard upside down and mount it on the opposite wall of the case. In that arrangement, you have the case component which consistently eats the most power sitting at the bottom of the chassis, being fed fresh, cool air in a straight line from the front fan(s), and immediately exhausting that air out the back as soon as it's heated.

Three elaborations are needed to fully flesh out the design. Firstly, you need to have the HD cage be either A) open enough that it doesn't obstruct airflow or B) modular and removable so that some or all of the bays can be taken out of the air-path. Secondly, you need a second fan, even if a smaller one, above the lower front fan to feed air to the graphics card without it having to scavenge from the CPU cooler. Thirdly you need enough perforations in the front and back of the case so that heated air can move out of the case easily rather than having to be squeezed through a single, constricted "exhaust port".

The power supply, which has its own fan anyway, will act to exhaust any ambient heat that wasn't exhausted by the CPU and GPU coolers rising inside the case.

Uncomplicated, elegant, and efficient.


I've seen exactly three cases that even try to address the design issues this way, and two of them screw it up. The first one was a "gamer" design that mounted the motherboard on the left wall, but also rotated it 90 degrees. Once again the CPU is in a "dead spot" behind the optical drives, there's kink in the airflow, and now the case expects all heated air to be exhausted out the top of the case - making it unsuitable for placing under a table or desk. The second one also had the inverted format, but had a solid front wall and barely enough perforations in the back wall for a puppy to breath through.


But what about that third case? Yes, there exists a chassis that satisfies all the design criteria I outlined above. However, you can't buy the thing. Furthermore, it's not being manufactured anymore. And finally, the corporate division that designed it in the first place no longer exists ! It was the chassis for the Dell XPS 630 =P.

Intel designed the BTX case format earlier in the decade in an attempt to address the thermal buildup and airflow problems that had appeared with more modern, high-power components being put in the legacy ATX case layout. The BTX format put the CPU in the front-center, right behind a ducted fan so that it received fresh air. The design failed in part of its intentions though by also placing the GPU right behind the CPU, feeding off its exhaust. Furthermore, no one wanted to abandon the ATX standard for the all new BTX one (predictably). So Dell themselves abandoned BTX after briefly using it in their XPS 4xxs.

However, they kept the ideas from the BTX format and even improved on them when designing the cases for the XPS 6xx and 7xx "gaming" computers. They used a standard ATX specification, but simply flipped it over to the opposite wall. They also made the HD cage both ventilated and modular so it could be removed; partially or entirely. The front had two fans and the back was heavily perforated to allow easy air-draft.


You can't buy an XPS case by itself because Dell is afraid of someone filling the chassis with low-quality components and then selling it with their name on it (marinate in the irony of that statement for a moment =P). Furthermore, the XPS 6xx and 7xx computers are no longer manufactured at all. And finally, all "gaming" designs are now the responsibility of the Alienware division of the company, with XPS now being a type of low-end machine using cheaper, industry-standard chassis for home/business use.

*head-desk* *head-desk* *head-desk*

I hate that =P.

MWAHAHAHA, break out a Dremel tool and remove it! >:] Then, replace it with one of Theeese! >:] (Have I mentioned I dislike the layout design-decisions in most cases on the market? )

If you found you suddenly needed a 4-drive Raid array, you could screw the HD cage back in any time. But right now ou've only got one HD, and if you added a second it could be mounted in another Novibes attached to the bottom of the optical drive cage. This gets obstructions out of the way of the front fan, dramatically increases actual cooling airflow (plus plain old convection) around the HD, and shuts down propagation of seek/read noise by mechanically isolating the drive. You should only have significant motor noise, which is minimal in a well-made drive these days.

You get the benefits of an "added fan" plus additional noise management for the price of one of the Noiseblocker Multiframe fans ($25) and some elbow grease.

(Yeah yeah, I know; this is something that appeals to just me isn't it? .)

Welcome back .

I meant the 80 mm wouldn't be doing much to cool the motherboard blowing outward vice blowing inward. It's the air being pushed against the surface and smeared around that carries away heat. If you're purposing the fan as a generic exhaust and aren't concerned about motherboard overheating anyway (which you shouldn't need to be), then it might do what you want blowing outward.

That's exactly what you wanted to happen .

Go to PlayNC.com and log in. Go to "Use A Serial Code" and see if you have the serial code for the edition you bought available to apply to your account.

If not, back out and click "Game Accounts" on the same page "Use A Serial Code" was on. See if you have more than one CoH account now.

If you don't, click on the one account and scroll down to the bottom of the page where it says "Serial Codes Used On This Account". See if it lists the edition you bought in addition to Good Vs Evil edition (it may just say "perk" or "retail" along with the date you applied it).

If none of that tells you what's happened, I'm not sure what's going on.

A slight positive pressure inside your case is better than a slight negative pressure; especially since the intakes will be covered with filters. It keeps particulates from seeping into the case and gives the internal fans something to work with.

Also keep in mind that any top fan looks to be heavily baffled by the chassis, so it won't be evacuating as much air as another fan.

I would definitely keep at least one of the side fans facing inward; it's there to feed fresh, cool air to the CPU cooler and graphics card. You have a front fan, but it's got this stupid chunk of metal blocking its airflow, not that the HD cage needs to be that solid, so it doesn't push air into the motherboard cavity as well as it could. Yet if the front fan wasn't there, you'd have your HDs sitting in a dead spot =P. (Sorry, I have objections to common case-airflow designs that basically aren't addressed by anyone on the market.)

If you get a tower CPU cooler, which all the designs discussed in this thread are, that upper side-fan isn't going to earn you much since it will be blowing against the flat top of the cooler.

I'm not sure if having the 80 mm fan facing outward is going to get you much either. It certainly won't contribute to motherboard cooling very much; which is what it's placed there for. But then you probably aren't going to need extra rear-cooling for the CPU and motherboard. You could try it that way and see what happens.


Short version: I don't think you're "over doing it" since you won't be getting full effect from many of the fans to begin with. And your climate concerns are certainly understandable.

Regardless of Socket type, any CPU cooler large enough to matter these days basically has two possible mounting schemes: "pain in the butt yet secure" or "snap-simple but insecure".

Also, if you're planning on putting in both side-fans, you might want to break out a ruler before shopping for a replacement CPU cooler. Some are pretty tall.


Corsair is a solid power supply brand. There are better ones I could recommend to you, but there are none better that are cheaper.

If the power supply is going to be "eating off the floor", remember to get a filter for it, too.

*nod-nods* All water coolers have a radiator in there somewhere. So water cooling eventually turns into air cooling and you still have to deal with the air turbulence and potential mechanical noise in the end. You also have to content with potential pump noise if you're working with cheap water cooling parts.

Water cooling is a good idea if you're going to have a whole-lotta heat to deal with at once; as in overclocking or dual-chip graphics cards.


Just remember to clean the filters often when dealing with lots of pet hair.

That's actually true. The "vapor chamber" works the same was as the "heat pipes" adopted in recent years for CPU cooling . A heat pipe is a hollow tube of thermally-conductive material with an inner coating of some sort of "wicking" material that absorbs liquids. The inside of the tube is at a very low vapor pressure and the wicking material is moistened with a tiny amount of liquid with high thermal capacity (often just plain water). A slight addition of heat on one end of the tube will cause the liquid to boil at the low internal pressure. The liquid vapor travels to the far end of the heat pipe and condenses on the relatively-cooler surface there; depositing its heat. The wicking material causes the liquid to be carried back to the hot end of the heat pipe to replace liquid boiling away there. So long as the temperature difference from one end to the other can be maintained, the pipe will conduct heat more efficiently than a bar of solid copper of equal size.

A "vapor chamber" is the same idea, except in a box form rather than a tube. Sapphire's marketing material draws a comparison to a boiling skillet with a lid on it. Added to the vapor chamber is a larger total heat sink surface-area than in the standard cooler and a larger, much quieter fan. The Vapor-X editions of Sapphire's cards have proved very popular.

It does vent into your case rather than out the back, but then the standard 5770 doesn't breath that well. It has partially obscured venting because of the second DVI port on the back; this is the same for all the 5xxxs, save the upcoming Eyefinity Edition with six mini-displayport connectors.

If you got the Vapor-X, it would either be for overclocking headroom or the (significantly) lower noise signature. (Or just for owning smexy engineering that someone has put a lot of thought into, which is a factor for me ^.^)


Even if you have a bunch of fans and are relying on them to evacuate any ambient heat from the video card, you're not doomed to have a noisy case either. It would be a work-in-progress over time, but you could replace your case fans when you had the money with either Scythe Slipstreams or Noiseblocker Multiframes. Any fan can eventually make noise just from movement of air, but finely made fans will cause less turbulence for a given volume of propelled air and can omit mechanical noise entirely. The Multiframes are the current champions of low noise/air-volume ratio, with Scythes somewhat behind them.

It would be a work-in-progress because Scythes cost about $12 apiece, and Noisblockers $25 apiece; you get what you pay for here. (Noctuas are also high-quality fans, but they'll cost you about as much as the Noiseblockers while performing about like the Scythes =P.) You could have a quiet, multi-fan case, but it would be a conscious investment to that purpose. On the other hand, the quality fans all have significant warranties and Noiseblocker claims a Mean Time Between Failures for their fan bearings of about twenty years =P. So if you made the investment you could pass those quiet fans on to other systems for the next decade-plus.


For later replacement of the CPU cooler, you might look for a design something like the Scythe Mugen 2 or Noctua NH-U12P. The Scythe is definitely the cheaper version and arguably the better performing one. Both coolers are designed with a push-pull fan arrangement in mind, but the Mugen 2 has five thermally-separated fin arrays that allow air to pass between them at lower static pressure. What that means (and has been mentioned in most every review I've read of the cooler, despite the reviewers not making a big deal of it) is that the Mugen 2 will operate at about the same level with two fans running in silent push-pull as it will with a single fan running at maximum speed. The Noctua just goes the route of having less cooling area to push air past and two quality fans in the box. If you wanted to go this route later, note that the Mugen 2 currently doesn't yet have a Socket 1156 compatible version.


So a quiet computer isn't out of the question for you in the future.