Hqnk
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Posts
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Quote:Oh yeah, we're floating close to modsmocking territory.Originally Posted by EvilGeko
The insurgents get some folks by appealing to their shared ideals. There are some people who while sitting on the fence before, will not take the government's side in the inevitable crackdown. Remember the crackdown tends to prove the insurgents right. A just government only attempts to punish the insurgents. This shows the people that the government is serious about the rule of law. However, an oppressive state will tend towards collective punishment. When the government is punishing everyone whether they did anything or not, some folks will come to the conclusion that the insurgents were right all along.
The insurgents will cower some other folks. Some people will never move off the "default state". They'll never take sides. EITHER SIDE. They won't seek to lobby for the destruction of the insurgents or the government. They'll just live in fear and hope to ride out the violence.
Others will take the government's side. They'll speak out, get active. Only problem with that for them is that it makes them a "legitimate" target.
So no, you don't get everyone, but you get some. There are plenty of current examples I can think of to illustrate these points, but I don't want to get modsmacked.
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Arrgh. I just ran into this tonight.
If you're going to make a habit of switching sides regularly, make sure to keep track of your levelling. At 10 you can still do the Nova Contacts, but at 11 you can't take on new ones. It seems that contacts you have already started will let you complete, but new referrals won't.
16 is the cut off for Imperial, and 21 for Neutropolis. I usually stop XP at 10, 15, and 20, but I slipped into internal narration and boom...story arc xp. -
Quote:Of course not then his Enriche monopoly will be destroyed.Originally Posted by BenRGamer
I never said he was a good guy =P I'm just saying he doesn't want everyone dead.
I admit it, I liked Cole when I met him...which is funny because I can't stand Statesman when I meet him in game. I bet it's intentional. -
Quote:You are correct, your alignment only changes when you are in a single player morality mission.Originally Posted by james_joyce
No, the undercover options don't change your morality, only the alignment missions do. The concept of going "deep undercover" means choosing the alignment you're spying on to keep up your cover on that side. I haven't played all the arcs, but as I understand it the undercover options are things that happen covertly - you betray the Resistance without them knowing. Alignment missions are public knowledge - you do something that shifts your alignment in their eyes. Going deep undercover implies that you're willing to keep up your cover even though it requires you to do things harmful to the side your actually undercover for.
Like I said, I could be wrong because I haven't played all the arcs. But that's the way it seems to me so far.
For example: You can kill Cutter Cain while flagged as resistance and you will not convert to Loyalist.
Another: You can save the PPD in Hatchet's ending mission and not convert to Loyalist. -
Quote:The most ruthless autocrats in our history supposed to be charismatic and reasonable in person, especially if they want you to be part of the ruling cadre as opposed to the poor smucks in the death chambers.Originally Posted by BenRGamer
Eh, from his bio and what he says when you meet him, it seems that he's less especially power hungry, but that he truly believes that humanity cannot lead itself without being ultimately self-destructive, so according to his views, he'd have no choice but to lead.
And yes, Praetoria has death chambers. It's a badge spot in the Nova Praetoria underground. -
Quote:The rub is that it's easy to come out of Praetoria with a hero/villain pov because it takes work to get a full picture. A player just levelling through will bypass a lot of content unless they take the effort to turn off xp.Originally Posted by EvilGeko
There's always an element of "in-character" because I'm trying to get into the head of someone who lives in Praetoria. On that basis, if it were ME, I would probably be an undercover Warden like Luke Larsen. I would probably try to talk the Crusaders out of some of their more over the top schemes. But not on the hysterical bases presented here.
Taking this completely objectively, everyone in Praetoria has blood on their hands and a lot of it. I simply do not understand how you all can argue with a straight face that the Responsibility path people could ever be what anyone would call a "hero". I don't think the Crusaders are either just to be clear. They, like most characters in Praetoria are something neither hero nor villain. I would call them 'human' and leave it at that.
Since that is almost sacrilege to gamers such people are considered insane even if they've gotten the "Knows the Truth" badge and no one listens. -
I find it interesting that by the end of my first character's sojurn through Praetoria many of the Resistance contacts I dealt with were dead...usually by my hand:
Jackhammer: Dead
Hatchet: Dead (or in Mother's clutches)
Vagabond: (Who I felt slightly guilty about) Dead
Beholder: Returned to mother's clutches, basically dead
Wardog: Dead
Crow: Dead (I'd kill him many times over if I could)
Steffard: Accident, I shouldn't have tried to do the Cutter Cain arc coterminously with the save the seers. It cuts Steffard out of the contact chain immediately.
There may be an opportunity to go after Richochet, but I always go try and save my team in the Power arc she appears.
Loyalist side
Interrorgator Washington
Reese...I shouldn't even put him. He's a stain that won't go away.
The idea that you can inflict such losses on the Resistance, but don't really dint the Loyalists, is kind of disappointing in a way. But, I felt no guilt for the bulkof the gankings I delivered...except for Steffard, but that was an accident. -
Quote:His end goal is to control humanity, and he's ready to franchise to other earths.Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
If his end goes is the extinction of humanity, then why did he step in to stop Hamidon at all?
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Quote:The PC is the Engine that makes the entire plot work. Without the PC, the entire operation does not happen. The PC is the more than superhumanly capable entity that mows down everything in opposition to Wardog's "dream." Tyrant made the nukes and left them lying around. It's the PC's work that makes the nukes a threat and it's the PC's decision to undo it.Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Here's the problem: Golden Girl mentions that the Wardens supposedly try to prevent the more extreme acts of the Crusaders. If that's they case they where were they when the city was threatened by nukes? At no time, in EITHER arc, did I see any Resistance member say "gosh, think this might be a bit much?"
And for the last time, I have said that Tyrant is evil. However, it does no one any good to try to stop him if the Resistance comes through and kills everyone before we have the chance to defeat Cole.
The PC is the moral agent.
I have killed Wardog every time.
If anything, the PC's are the problem.
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Quote:Wardog is one man, one the players can choose to stop him, you're the moral fulcrum there. The game demonstrates repeatedly that the Wardens work to keep a handle on the Crusaders, but the Crusaders (and the Destroyers and the Ghouls) are used directly by the Loyalists for propaganda purposes.Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
In character or out, the idea of killing an entire city disgusts me.
And if you're so disgusted, then I hope you're not absolving Cole of letting the Devouring Earth overrun Rome and of using the Devouring Earth to make examples of his enemies. -
Quote:So...is this an OOC conversation about what's actually in the game or an IC conversation?Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Crusader act amount to murder because of impatience. Right now, in the real world, my hands are trembling in anger at the very idea of causing suffering and death simply because you can't have your way RIGHT NOW. It is the VERY DEFINITION OF EVIL.
And even though I've said this several times, I'm going to try once more.
NOT KILLING PEOPLE NOW DOES NOT MEAN, AND HAS NEVER MEANT, THAT THERE WILL BE NO FIGHTING EVER.
What it means is that when Cole is toppled, there will actually be people alive to enjoy freedom. Your 'character' has given me no indication that he will ever stop killing. -
Complete side note: For the six years I've played this game I did not know pre-uber amoeba Hamidon's full name and thanks to this thread I do (Yes I somehow missed it in the mission texts) and it somehow makes the whole devouring earth thing even more skin crawlingly creepy.
A man did all of it, one man and his drive. *shudder*
Hamidon Pasalima, destroyer of worlds, or in some cases universes. -
Quote:Don't forget keeping street gangs in dope.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Wlel, with 30% of the entire government budget going to the PPD and IDF, Tyrant probably feels he has to show the tax payers they're getting value for money
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Cheyenne looks so evil, however Rachel is evil.
I felt bad for the new football coach, however I feel worse for Finn. -
Quote:Ugh...so right....Hawkmoor's costume...so bad.Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
Not as terrible as what was done to the Authority in the Wildstorm revamp.
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I occasionally double back to beat on PPD NPC's who say something snide as I bounce by on my way to a mission.
By "occasionally" I mean, I do it every time until I get flight so I don't have to see the bubbles. -
http://www.bleedngcool.com/2010/09/2...l-realignment/
Quote:And the WSU goes into limbo with Milestone...until Geoff Johns needs new cannon fodder to kill for a crossover.After taking the comics scene by storm nearly 20 years ago, the WildStorm Universe titles will end this December. In this soft marketplace, these characters need a break to regroup and redefine what made them once unique and cutting edge. While these will be the final issues published under the WildStorm imprint, it will not be the last we will see of many of these heroes. We, along with Geoff Johns, have a lot of exciting plans for these amazing characters, so stay tuned. Going forward, WildStormÂ’s licensed titles and kids comics will now be published under the DC banner. -
Quote:There is a specific moral choice that will allow you to send DE monsters after Cole's enemies to make an example of them.Originally Posted by Flarstux
I haven't played all the arcs, so I don't know - but is there any actual evidence that Hami is still out there? Do we ever see a Devouring Earth critter - or the remains of a Devouring Earth critter? If so, where?
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My first live character despised the Praetorian government by the time he finished the Power arc but the moment he met Cole, he turned into a a melty fanboy and almost drank the extra strength Enriche.
The Neutropolis Responsibility arc cured him.
It's funny though, while I tend to favor the Wardens, I have, so far, created Loyalists coming out of the tutorial (I usually flip twice during my sojurn in Nova Praetoria (ito take out Reese and Jackhammer they can't be allowed to survive in "my world."
I also choose loyalist because I like being able to talk to Marchand for more options. I'll eventually do something similar for Resistance, but I just don't remember coming across that many phone home options. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Kasoh
No matter which way I look at it, Vangaurd entering other dimensions on the basis of protecting the security of Primal Earth by granting aid to the faction they like the most is discomforting. Perhaps Vangaurd will get tired of working with anarchist zealots and just assassinate Cole and put in an interim government while they foist a new government system upon the people of Praetoria whether they want it or not.
The people of Praetoria need to keep their king from kidnapping Primal Statesman and importing Fixodyne the the Primal dimension and setting up clandestine invasion cells in Paragon City.
And the Rikti "war" has been over. If it wasn't over there would be mother ships flying about not the remnants and their puny dropships. Add to that, the Vanguard have allied with Traditionalist Rikti against their warmongering brethern. It isn't the same situation as with the Rikti invasion.
What Vanguard and Longbow are doing in Praetoria is not the same either. It's more like the Cold War policy of giving clandestine (well Longbow doesn't know what "clandestine" means) aid to anti-communist forces in foreign countries. They're supporting the Wardens and directly counteracting the potential influence Arachnos has on the Crusaders. Kind of like what the U.S. did with the mujahideen during the Soviet invasion of Afganistan.
If there is one thing the Dev's have done for GR is that they made the mission text murky and grey and the badge text are the "concrete" clues about the true nature of Praetoria's government. It actually takes effort to get the "Knows the Truth" badge and even then there should be a sub badge, "Knows the Truth and Does Not Care." -
Plus Cole uses the DE to make examples of people he does not like.
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Quote:She's probably talking about the location badges in the underground, there's no moral equivalency in those discoveries.Originally Posted by Progressman
I've read the Resistance arcs sure. My mind still hasn't changed.
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Susan and Mary TEST!!!!!!
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Quote:Everyone uses the Crusaders for cannon fodder, especially the Power Loyalist Contacts. They just call in resistance strikes to engineer photo ops.Originally Posted by Steampunkette
She is awesomesauce! =-3
And I'm -sure- there's more to the Crusaders than PR... Like Cleopatra's use of them to lull you into a sense of security that -she- isn't an evil psychopath who will soon send you off to meet your death after framing you for the deaths of several cops! <3
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Is it sad that I wanted McKlellan to take over Dumbledore? I wanted a geek trifecta.