Grey Pilgrim

Yeah, Consume is pretty nice. The recharge is still longish, but it's mitigated by having increased recovery and end drain resistance for part of the recharge period.

Adjusted my post for you. I was a little surprised someone likes being kb'd with how this game is set up as well.

Red Dawn is a classic, plenty of people have seen it. I was introduced to it in college myself, and it's a great/fun movie. Not quite cheesy and has an interesting perspective on things before the Cold War was over. I rather wonder if more people who grew up after (or mostly after) it was over should watch movies like that to appreciate how things were a little more.

Anyway, I love the jokes and easter eggs we have in game. Definitely adds a fun layer to things. I'm noticing a lot of good writing so far in the game... just ran into Test Rat and got a kick out of her.

Yeah, I found that out about 9 months ago, and I was... not happy about it. Still makes sense to get +hp bonuses, of course but it's not as nice as I thought.

My point is merely that these sets don't have anything going for them that is so powerful that no KB Protection is warranted. No matter how you slice it, it IS a concern a user of those sets needs to be aware of and build around, unlike the majority of other sets.

Can you get around the problem? Yes. Is it a problem the two sets should have to get around? I contend no. Again, it would make sense if they were over the top in some other way, but they're not.

Granting KB protection to either set is not going to suddenly make them into WP or on par with it. Their resists and other powers make them entirely different beasts.

For the earlier part of the paragraph... are you really against the two getting KB protection? At best, it seems like you're saying "I know it's there, but I don't let it bug me." That doesn't really constitute an argument against the change. I make the best of it that I can and still love Fiery Aura (Grey Pilgrim is a Fire/Fire tank, my first character, and I still play him all the time), but that doesn't make me ignore that an imbalance exists... and one that is not warranted to boot.

Again, not really sure what we're arguing about, other than degrees to which this bothers us.

Depends on what you need. Mathematically, Fire ammo ups your damage pretty well, so it's good to run with that. However, the kb from the regular ammo can help your survivability, and cold and toxic can work well if others have powers that can stack with it.

Not sure if we have anyone with slows for cold to stack with, but we have some kinetic melee people, so toxic could work with them nicely on hard targets like AVs. May not matter much in the early levels, though.

Lower levels are usually more rough before we start enhancing better and getting IO sets in, so I wouldn't worry about things too much. A Brute isn't a Tank, but I'll be able to deal with incoming damage better in higher levels, that's for sure. Right now, no kb or mez protection, no heal, etc., cuts down on Elec's survivability.

DC! I knew it!

But wait... so there are or aren't any day jobs in Praetoria? Not seeing anything on the wiki currently.

That's part of why I don't want to worry about a KB hole. There are enough other things worth going for without having to be distracted by KB protection. And most other sets can go for those without being distracted by a lack of kb protection.

Though I did manage to get my psionic defenses to about 23% and 14% resists, so I don't mind psi that much. Though Tanker HP and a fast recharging Healing Flames do help.

When tanking for a team, I see it as more than a want. But even if we call it a want, you do have to admit this whole debate is not needed for almost all of the defense sets. Nothing about FA or DA warrants this shortcoming, either. Which is my entire point.

Pretty much my sentiments exactly. There isn't a good design reason for them not to have the protection (I heard a few "power logic" statements trying to argue for them not having it, but I can come up with ones that show they should have it), and it puts them at a disadvantage to other sets not to have the protection. Fiery Aura already gives up some defense for offense, so the KB stuff is over the top.

And Strato... I tried playing with 1 KB protection enhancers (and I do in my more offensive build for my tank), but I was dissatisfied with how much he still got knocked back. I can handle that on my non-Tank characters, but I want my Tanks to be on their feet at all times.

The bosses were cool, except they kept knocking me flying. Darn lack of KB protection until 16 for Elec anyway.

Not sure how I'll get caught up by next week, but I'll try to pick up a few levels, as I ended at 9. Liking fury on a team, though... having about 100-130% bonus to damage a lot of the time had an interesting effect even on my Tier 1 attack.

Heh, not really disagreeing about anything. The question is just whether it's needed, and it's not technically for most tanking builds when you're on a team. It does, of course, make things easier, like you said.

My Invuln doesn't have it mostly because I wanted to leverage the defense in the set and not get Tough for once, since most of my Scrappers and Tanks have it. Felt nice to branch out a bit. And he's done well on the ITF and on 8 man teams against the Praetorian 40+ story arcs. Darn def debuffs from the Clocks stinks, though.

Nice. I was pretty stoked when I did 500 damage with KO Blow (or something like that) at about level 40 when I was teamed with a Kinetics Defender. That isn't too shabby!

The point is more whether it's needed, Awesome. I agree that going from 67% to the cap for S/L will make a big difference (the numbers don't lie on that), but you don't NEED it as an Invuln tanker. I've tanked a fair amount of content on my Invuln that doesn't have Tough, so it's not needed. Albeit he does have a good amount more defense from IOs, too.

And that's a good thing, too. If all Tank builds needed Tough to work, that wouldn't be very fun.

Wait, are you comparing Practiced Brawler or Active Defense to the KB hole in Fiery Aura or Dark Armor? Really? Drop one slot extra slot in either and you're good to go. I do think click mezzes are not useful in today's game, but... I'm not going to say they're as annoying as a KB hole for a melee set.

I suppose one slot for -kb might cut it for a Scrapper, but for a Brute or Tank with one of these sets, you end up sacrificing 4 slots to avoid most KB in the game... and then there are a few mobs that can STILL get you when you're tanking for your team. This, when every other melee set can just ignore it entirely and slot for whatever.

And those 4 slots do make a difference. I end up cutting slots from powers that I would like to slot more heavily to get that -kb protection. There's no logical game reason to have this difference, either. Why two don't have it when all the others do is rather odd to me.

It's definitely better. It's more unique, and equally buffs no matter what attack set it is paired with. The old version unfairly favored Fire damage only for 20 seconds, with everything else for 10 seconds. That's a bit improvement right there.