Grey Pilgrim
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Posts
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Joined
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I haven't played WoW in a long while, Deth, but I haven't heard anything about WoW now allowing you to take on the sheer numbers of opponents you can in COH. I know you can do more and more the farther you go in game (and with the lewt you spec yourself out with), but the Warriors I played and played with didn't match up to what Tankers can do in this game by a long shot. Aggro control and damage mitigation was much, much easier in COH.
Actually, I was always amazed that WoW is so much more popular than other MMOs... it plays much more "boringly" than COH... you're just not nearly as maneuverable or visceral. All my opinion there, of course, but I've never heard anyone try to argue that tanking in the two games was equivalent, though. COH has always come out on top in those discussions (whether that's a good thing or not is another thing, of course). -
I know some people drop Pulverize once you get a few more attacks, but I kept them all with my Macer. He's just short of getting Crowd Control and doesn't have all his IOs yet, but I think I'd miss it in my chain and have some downtime if I dropped it. You'll definitely want to keep it until you get at least Clobber, if not up to 35 and get Shatter as well.
You really do want all the attacks in War Mace (other than maybe Pulverize, as debated above), as they add a lot. The earlier attacks help with a continuous ST chain, and Whirling Mace goes wonderfully with Shatter and Crowd Control for some awesome AOE damage (Mace after Shatter is noticeably better for crowds than it was before). Clobber is like KO Blow: you'd be insane not to take it (and there's no quibbling about the animation, either).
For slotting, you're right that you want to slot attacks first for accuracy and damage. My rule of thumb for slotting attacks when using common IOs, DOs, or SOs, is 3 damage, 2 accuracy, and an endurance reduction or a recharge (how to slot depends on the power... you're probably better off slotting high end use powers with end reducs so you don't run out of blue from using them). If you want to do a little better than that without getting too expensive, "frankenslot" your last two slots with a cheap set: get a dam/end and a dam/rech, for instance. More thoughts on that elsewhere in the forums, so look around at guides and such as well. -
Eh, I think we're cutting Fire a little short. I still think Consume and Burn need a lookover and tweak, but it's still pretty good. Shield Charge is nice, but it does have a fairly long recharge. I can use FSC and Combustion on every mob to drop all the minions in a couple powers (and a few ticks of Blazing Aura), whereas I really can only do that whenever Shield Charge is up, to couple it with Foot Stomp.
Yes, I know there are other power combinations, but Fire is pretty good for damage. Just a few too many wonky powers (as in how weird/badly they work compared to the powers in Shields). -
Have fun with the Repairmen, or is that little bug/feature not around anymore?
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Quote:Good point. While the big setpiece battles in the second two Lord of the Rings movies are fun to watch, part of me finds the closer, smaller combat you see in the first movie, The Fellowship of the Ring, more enjoyable.Originally Posted by Sorciere_NA
Not really. Just as 200 zombies aren't necessarily more frightening than a single zombie. Or, as the saying goes, one death is a tragedy; a thousand deaths are a statistic.
When you deal with really large numbers of something, this something loses individuality and significance.
As a matter of fact, I'd actually prefer for spawns in the game to be smaller: this whole "defeating critters by the dozen" is something I associate more with Tolkienesque fantasy and less with superheroes: superheroes tend to be superheroes because they deal with superhuman threats, not because they can dispatch masses of nameless minions with ease. -
Quote:Kruunch... for all of your talk about morally righteous, uptight people, you sure go on the attack when someone disagrees with you: just like those theoretical people would.Originally Posted by Kruunch
I can jump into the middle of a pack of 7 with literally any of my Controllers, Blasters, Scrappers, Brutes, Corruptors and MMs.
Dunno who you team with, but that's plain silly.
In Chess, a Knight can move two spaces over and once space to either side. What on earth does that have to do with the price of tea in China?!
If seven mobs makes you feel heroic, wouldn't it stand to reason 30 mobs would make you feel SUPER-heroic?
And I can solo Diabolique on a Scrapper ... something I'm willing to bet you can't do on your tank from the way you describe your playing habits.
That's the whole point ... easy fix and it seperates us from Scrappers that much more.
I have a feeling people hear the word "herding" and all of the MMO morally righteous (is that the most useless crowd of all or what?!) crowd get their hackles up about the "purity" of the game and the integrity of the fight and heaven forbid this might lead to farming, or power levelling or some other such evil and morally reprehensible act (
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The bottom line is you could still run around and marvel at your 7 mob herd all you like. This change would not change that in the least. It just might make the game a little more interesting for people who aren't satisfied with online Tic-Tac-Toe.
Why did you keep saying SEVEN mobs? That's not the aggro cap, which I referred to in my post. The aggro cap is SEVENTEEN, which is quite large, as my other post said. If that's too easy or makes Tanks not strong enough, then maybe mobs need to be made stronger, or other balance points should be looked at. As it is, 17 is generally an eight-man mob and change. A tank should be able to handle enough of 2 mobs that his teammates can survive the bit of aggro they get. If they pick up more than that, than the Tanker and the REST OF THE TEAM (something that gets left out of these discussions about aggro far too often) need to play smarter.
17 can feel plenty heroic (not sure how it's online tic-tac-toe), and given it's 1+ mobs on an eight-man team, WHY does it need to be bigger? You're acting like 17 just isn't enough, like any other number over 17 wouldn't just be arbitrarily larger, and/or get into grabbing more foes than the devs want. Like it or not, that's pretty much been decided by the devs. It's not that arbitrary, either. Taking on 17 guys in super-powered armor isn't enough for you? I think this idea has more with your need to compensate for something than anything else (I'm saying that in jest). I like being able to take on more mobs than I could in WoW (MUCH more, as noted earlier), but if you take that too far, then the game gets far too easy, and a bit laughable at how stupid your opponents are. "Come along, sheep! Let me lead you to your slaughter as you have no brain!"
I think getting a little more perspective from other games, comics themselves, and from this game, and have fun with what we can fight.
Again, if tanks need a little more oomph to make them unique, there are better options than raising the aggro cap. I've liked the idea of Gauntlet 2.0 and Johnny's idea more than this. What tankers need isn't something so gamewide affecting as raising the aggro cap. I'm not shooting you down for wanting to make tanks better, I just think another approach would be better. -
My WP/DB Tanker is very resilient, and picked up Tough and Weave. I usually have Weave running just for the extra defense to avoid debuffs, etc., and only turn on Tough when the going is going to be, well, tough (AVs and such). Even then, I've soloed some EBs without Tough on, and depending on the team, AVs as well.
I do just fine without Stamina as well. I'd get a little winded in the 20s when soloing and fighting hard, but it wasn't that bad (I'd have to be fighting War Wolf spawns in the Bonny Morass in Striga to really notice my blue bar getting affected). Then I started slotting IO sets for recovery and end bonuses, as well as picking up the Atlas Medallion in the late 30s. Every little bit helped and made a difference: now my blue bar just lasts and lasts. Quick Recovery can be enough without Stamina if you plan out your build right. Heck, my WP/DB has the same accolades, etc. as my Fire/Fire, and has better endurance efficiency than the Fire/Fire. Doesn't matter as much for the Fire/Fire, of course, since he has Consume, but it is worth noting. QR and good planning goes a long way. -
Quote:Like beauty, this must be in the eye of the beholder. I jump into mobs with my Tanks and take alphas with no worries, something I can't say for any other AT I have, including Brutes and Scrappers. In WoW, teams wipe facing the amount of mobs a single tank can handle at the aggro cap. I sure feel heroic with my Tanker, standing there facing that.Originally Posted by Kruunch
I can get behind a 34 mob agro cap. At least it would be more ... heroic ... looking then what we currently have.
And then there are AVs. Last night, Numina's evil counterpart, Diabolique, was damaging squishier teammates that got too close to her, but didn't do too much to me. At one point, a Defender got KB'd back through a portal (this was an Oranbega map). Hilarious, but it sure made me feel tough to stand there and take all that when they couldn't. Tanks are tough, tanks are heroic. 17 mobs is already a ridiculous amount to have focused on you to the exclusion of everyone else on your team, if you think about it. Anything more really does approach the stupidity of mobs crowding in to be burned to defeat in some crates.
Again, if tanks need something, it's NOT at the aggro cap. It's with their other abilities, and maybe where they are infringed upon by other ATs. -
I have an offensive alternative build that isn't grabbing the Fighting Pool. Just slotted with common IOs at the moment, but the goal there is +damage and +recharge. Not sure I'd want to main tank with it on the new TFs, but it'd be fine against most content.
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With mine, I went for about 22-23% defense to Melee, AOE, Ranged, and Psychic, to cover all my bases. It works pretty well. Defense debuffs erase that quickly, of course, but it does help... anything reducing the amount of damage and debuffs hitting you is a win.
I know some others focus on getting their Melee or Smashing and Lethal defense as high as possible. I'd have to fiddle with Mid's a bit, but my guess is that getting in the 30% range to those wouldn't be THAT hard (it'd cost a fair amount in IOs, but might not break the bank), but would be tougher the higher you went.
I prefer my approach, of course, so I have pretty much the same defense no matter what I'm facing, and I can count on that whether it's Carnies, crazy creatures in FBZ, or Cimerorans. Recharge is the other nice thing to have, for Healing Flames. It does well for me, but nothing wrong with trying for a bunch of Smashing/Lethal, as that's so common. -
Yeah, that's why I like to keep tabs on my progress in Mid's Hero Builder... makes it easier when buying things at the market. And for respecing.
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Reiterating something again, as I continue to see it posted. If you're worried about teammates and tanking well because a second mob was aggroed, that's a GOOD thing. That does not mean you should be calling for an increase to the aggro cap or removing it altogether. If a game is a walk in the park and has no risk, it is FAR more easy for players to get bored with it and leave. This game is easy enough as it is, and raising the cap or removing it makes it easier.
With the cap at 17, you need either a tank to handle more aggro than that, or teammates good enough and strong enough to handle some aggro themselves. If you just need one tanker to lock everything down and everyone else can go brain dead, it threatens the fun, strategy, and longterm survival of the game, not to mention making some other types of heroes unneeded.
If you think Tankers need a boost (and I like mostly at DPE for needed improvement), fine, but the aggro cap is not where you want to go. Find a way to tweak Tanks that maintains the quality of the game and other ATs, not to mention having a second tank on the team. -
Aw, Scoooter, that's okay. I don't mind Stalkers, and think they're great on teams or solo. Good teammates depend far more on the teammates than the AT they're playing.
The changes for them are quite good, too. The debuffs help, and they can "scrap" much better, too. I usually only use AS at the start of a fight (unless I'm soloing an EB and need to nail him with it more than once).
I think someone talked about that on Wednesday, NancY. Thanks for reminding me, though... that's a great feature. Might make Group Fly or Team Teleport a more valuable power for MMs. I'm assuming this will be the same for Controllers, which is nice. Don't have quite as many issues with my controllers, as it's just one, but there have been times when I just summoned at the end of the mission and the pet power won't be back at the start of the next.
I also wonder if MMs don't let me do enough to opposing mobs. Just healing and maintaining pets and teammates, with the occasional pistol shot, isn't involved enough for me. It's not just hanging back, either, as I have lot's of fun with my Blasters and two Controllers. Hmmmm. -
You could fit in Fireball and a good amount of defense, but picking up Stamina, Weave, and Fireball is a bit tough on a Fire/Fire build... you'd have to make some compromises and let some decent powers go to get it. But there are a lot of viable approaches for a Fire/Fire, it's rather nice having so many.
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Quote:I've read a lot of moaning about how Going Rogue is going to remove the need for one AT or another. But then it's usually two ATs both saying the other is going to remove them. I've heard plenty of people say they'll be glad to be able to invite Tanks rather than Brutes, as Tanks can actually take alphas reliably. There's some balancing needed, sure, but I don't see Tanks getting replaced by any stretch of the imagination.Originally Posted by Atheism
When GR comes out, I won't be inviting squishy Brutes to the team so they can just die trying to take the alpha.
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An aggro cap of some sort makes a lot of sense.
1) For immersion, it's asinine that a bunch of guys are going to just focus on one guy and pile up around him. Yes, the taunt mechanic, Gauntlet, etc. is immersion breaking in the same way, or at least to some extent (if there's somebody big "wailing" on my buddies, it makes sense that he'd get some attention), but that doesn't excuse adding another immersion breaking feature to the game. The cap balances between game necessity and immersion, and is fine as is.
2) Aggro management should not only be ONE tank's worry. Having a tank on a team should not mean that everyone else on it can turn their brains off and blast away. You can do this to some extent still (being a Blaster is fairly tactical running solo, but is much, much easier with a tank on the team), but you still have to think. Removing the aggro cap puts the game in easy mode if you have a tank, which is a BAD thing. This game has challenges, but is easy enough already.
3) There should be some benefit to having another tank on a team. Removing the aggro cap works against this, as has been mentioned. Arguing that there still isn't enough incentive to do so currently (which is more debatable than some people admit) is not evidence that the aggro cap should be removed. It's evidence that Tanks need a little "pizazz" or tweak to make them more worthwhile in numbers over one. Don't confuse the two issues.
The aggro cap was put in for good reasons, and those reasons still exist. You can perhaps argue that it's too low, perhaps, but I'm uncertain of that. Anyway, it's still more open for debate than saying it should be done away with. -
Figure out if you want to be more offensive or defensive, and go from there. "Defensive" is still good damage for a tank, but I prioritize Tough, Weave, defense, etc. over damage, damage powers, etc. with that setup. If you can get -KB IOs, go for it, as that frees you from having to take Acrobatics and the Leaping pool (though Combat Jumping is generally good for any build going for defense).
If you want offense, Pyre Mastery and Fireball is a good way to go, as well as lots of damage.
Quick post, but that's the basics off the cuff. -
Yeah, all I've heard him say was that it would be on Pinnacle (I think) to someone, and then said that "we'd all be really late every week, but just to wait." Heh. So I'm guessing Victory with that.
My big quandary is what to do about the Elec powerset getting ported and changed. I want to make an Elec/Elec Brute or Tank, but don't have any open slots on Victory. Might have to clear out all of Gunnerist's things when we're done and scrap him, as he's my least favorite character on the server. Could scrap my Energy Blaster again, but I like the set, and I keep re-rolling different variations, so I should just stick with my current Energy/Mental Blaster. I like his name, too: The Marvelous Mentalist. -
Eh, I don't know about that. If memory serves, prices are ridiculous during the event and in the days after, but things steadily get better as time progresses. Mathematic Proofs are back to giving a measely amount of money, common salvage is still more expensive but not as bad. We'll see how it goes this weekend, I guess, but I rarely try to get things right away anymore. Prices spike at times in the market, but you can keep track of how much it should cost and wait, if you're patient. You can still get things for normal prices now if you wait... I've been putting in normal bids or just slightly higher than normal, and they go through after awhile.
I've been mostly running my 35+ characters this week, as I generally don't make the higher level recipes, so I can sell off the salvage for nice profits. I still can't believe I made about 4-6 million (wish I could remember my starting amount) on Wednesday with my Isos villain just by selling all the salvage that dropped that night. I don't think I had any rare salvage, either: just uncommon and a bunch of common. -
Why worse this weekend? Shouldn't things improve a tad until I16 comes out (that may actually help the AE problem, as people will be able to stack their regular missions... though maybe not, as you can do that for AE as well... maybe. If they're smart, they should only put that feature into regular missions, heh).
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Yeah, do not drop Attack Vitals, it's a very nice cone/combo. I hate exemping below 35, as I lose Sweeping Strike and the AV combo, the lack of which I feel quite keenly. 35 and up, you are a swirling dervish of doom... losing that makes you feel very lackluster.
I usually open up with the AV combo and follow it up with the Sweep Combo: most minions around at the start of the AV combo will drop as 1k Cuts animates, and the Sweep combo takes care of the rest. Works quite nicely, and I hate fighting small mobs while solo, as I can't work my AOE as much, heh. I get addicted to all the orange numbers flying over a bunch of enemy's heads. -
That doesn't quite make sense, though, as the game is recording a hit but no damage. If it's not hitting due to lag, shouldn't the game not register it at all? Maybe I'm misunderstanding how it works, but the game saying there was a hit and then not having damage land seems to be a glitch, not lag.
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Quote:Hehe. A good response. MG's, too.Originally Posted by BrimstoneBruce
The mystique! It's broken! Nooooo!
*Turns off toggles, throws self onto spawn of Vanguard Sword* -
Some of the new sigs are a little scary. I avoid threads with that Voodoogirl... avatar and sig pics give me the willies. Kind of. Heh.
I still don't like how new postings look in these forums. So there's good and bad for sure, Bunny. -
If it's anything like last time, we're not going to be done in three weeks. We'll probably run a couple more weeks than that. All according to the whims of a certain someone, of course. I'm at 46, so I know I'll probably need four weeks... I've been clocking about a level a week the last session or two, or maybe 12 bulbs of xp. Lord Recluse was a nice boost of XP at the end tonight... him and mission completion gave me two bulbs... nice!
I'm not sure what to do with my guy once he hits 50. I've liked MMs at the start, but once I get to the 40s, doing all that summoning and such gets so tedious. It gets even worse solo, I think. This will be my last for sure, I think.
Debating what to do for the next run, if I'm around. I have a lowbie Sonic Defender and a Blaster that I could maybe bring into the fray, they're pretty fun.