Garent
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:All ATs are going to be available on both sides, thanks to the new tutorial.Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Well, if true, defenders might be the only support AT 1-19 hero side for any of the F2P players, so how about them apples?
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I know a couple who got CoH as a wedding present. I say go for it.
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Anyone who thinks that...you know what? No, nevermind. I'm too cool for this argument.
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This is the way it's supposed to work. Powers that accept damage enhancements are the ones that are supposed to benefit from interface. Seeker drones can't be enhanced for damage.
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Quote:Wow. I had no idea the new badges for that zone were so hardcore.Originally Posted by DarkGob
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Quote:Yes you are. Powers vary greatly in usefulness and how often the situations in which they're useful come up. You really can't compare three powers in empathy which make up a great deal of its overall performance to a single power in kinetics whose purposes are to let you get a travel power without a prerequisite and as a novelty for your teammates.Originally Posted by CharybdisClan
Not ignoring part of my powerset any more than people who don't take Crystals or Minerals from the Stone Armor set are, or people who don't take Inertial Reduction from the Kin set do.
You're making the exact same mistake you made last time, but in reverse.Quote:Originally Posted by CharybdisClan
Last time I had an emp I was playing it as a healer and took next to nothing from my Dark secondary. Took everything emp except absorb pain. So I see no difference skipping 3 powers in one set when I skipped all but 3 from another powerset the other time. -
As other people said, specific powersets have a lot to do with it. Personally, I prefer defenders because they have higher self buff modifiers (personal survivability is very important to me on support characters) and because at high levels a lot of my damage comes from damage procs which don't care about archetype. I have plenty of both though.
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My first post in the thread has been updated. I can't list everything that was changed, since I didn't keep track. Trick arrow has a lot of different/tweaked stuff, wording is improved in certain areas, the triage beacon suggestion was removed, some stuff for force field... That's the stuff I remember off the top of my head.
This is a potential final version. We plan to start bugging devs once discussion dies down. -
Quote:Whaaaaat?Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Gloom is redundant.
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Quote:Dylan's just as much the OP as I am. He had me post the numbers because I have more street cred on the defender forums :P So no need to apologize.Originally Posted by Draggynn
I apologize Garent for our rather lenghty digression from the original point.
Ah, that would explain it then.Quote:Originally Posted by WarMage
I didn't comment on this because I completely agree with the idea.
I think the next step for Dylan and me is to get more specificity into the list and integrate some of the suggestions into something final. -
Here we go. How about this?
38% ranged defense, 27.4% area, 19.3% melee, 52.5% recharge bonus
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Ballista Royal: Level 50 Natural Defender
Primary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Secondary Power Set: Archery
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Entangling Arrow -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Snap Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Glue Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Aimed Shot -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 6: Fistful of Arrows -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(15), Posi-Dmg/Rng(17), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Posi-Dam%(19)
Level 8: Flash Arrow -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(19), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(21), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(21)
Level 10: Ice Arrow -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(23), Lock-Rchg/Hold(23), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(25), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(25), Lock-%Hold(27)
Level 12: Acid Arrow -- LdyGrey-Rchg/EndRdx(A), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(27), Acc-I(29)
Level 14: Blazing Arrow -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(31), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 16: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 18: Disruption Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 20: Explosive Arrow -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(34), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), Posi-Dam%(36), ExStrk-Dam%(36)
Level 22: Poison Gas Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Oil Slick Arrow -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(37), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Posi-Dam%(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 28: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(39), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(40)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 35: EMP Arrow -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(40), Lock-Rchg/Hold(42), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42), Lock-%Hold(43)
Level 38: Rain of Arrows -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(43), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dam%(45), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 41: Power Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(46), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(7)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(9), P'Shift-End%(9)
Level 4: Ninja Run
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And they stated it in the second sentence of the original post too. Wow, I'm awesome today.
Anyway, dark blast only has four powers that are necessary. Life drain would normally be useful, but empathy already has a self heal. Dark pit and blackstar are only useful for specific combos, and moonbeam and torrent just plain aren't useful except for edge cases. If you aren't married to your ancillary, electric mastery's immobilize makes a great blast power. The single target attack chain becomes dark blast, gloom, dark blast, electric fence.
The slotting is pretty simple. Five pieces of devastation plus a proc for single target attacks (purple proc in dark blast, since it gets used twice as often as the other two powers) and five pieces of positron's blast plus a proc for the area attacks. The purple proc is expensive, but definitely worth it.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 1: Dark Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(3), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Apoc-Dam%(7)
Level 2: Gloom -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(9), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Cloud-%Dam(11)
Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(17), Posi-Dmg/Rng(17), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), Posi-Dam%(19), Cloud-%Dam(21)
Level 20: Night Fall -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(21), Posi-Dmg/Rng(23), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), Posi-Dam%(25), Cloud-%Dam(25)
Level 41: Electric Fence -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(42), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), TotHntr-Dam%(43)
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There are a few things in the original post that I thought would be more contentious than they are. I'll copy paste them here.
Quote:The first one is essentially a 50% buff to the resistance that sonic resonance and thermal gives. I was certain that someone would have something to say about that. Ditto on the second one, as I don't think it's possible for there to be unanimous support of power order changes.Originally Posted by Garent
The defense shields are all scale 1.5, while the sonic shields are only scale 2.0, a ratio of 1.33:1, strange given that resist and defense operate at a 2:1 ratio for non-Incarnate Trial gameplay (where the ratio is 1.5:1). The singular shields need to have their magnitude raised to 3, and the aoe shield to mag 2.
Clarity comes far too late in the powerset. It should be swapped with Sonic Repulsion. -
If Moonbeem says what secondary they're using, I can give advice on how to get the most damage out of it.
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Quote:I only quantified the parts that were quantifiable. I leave it up to the reader to put them into context within the whole set. All sets have advantages they possess that aren't mentioned here. Rad doesn't have to reapply its debuffs as often as other sets in AV fights, so it can spend more time blasting. Storm, Ice, and TA have knockdown patches. Dark Miasma has a cone fear. So on and so forth.Originally Posted by New Dawn
When I look at TA I look at the controls too and they count, you can't just compare debuffs and leave stuff out and the whole set has to fulfil a concept
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Quote:This doesn't solve the problem of trick arrow spending all of its time using its debuffs while other sets only need to lay down a few powers before going into blasting. It only makes it easier for them to spend all their time using trick arrows.Originally Posted by Redlynne
The simplest, and easiest solution to this problem is to change the recharge time on the Click AoE Debuffs so that they're available for use more often.
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Need more help from trick arrow people:
One of the issues that people keep mentioning is that -almost every- arrow has to be used in every fight. From what I can see, the reason for this is because, aside from the two control powers, every single power in the set is an AoE click power. This means that in a fight against 16 enemies, you have seven powers that need to be used in order to use your full power. In a fight against AVs, the powers just aren't strong enough because they're balanced around hitting many targets. So my question is this...
How do people feel about acid arrow being turned into a single target power with disruption arrow being buffed to compensate? The numbers would look a little bit like this.
Acid Arrow: Single Target, 20s recharge, -20% resistance (does not stack from same caster), -25% defense, -100% regeneration.
Disruption Arrow: 17 max targets, 25 foot radius, -30% resistance (does not stack from same caster), trivial energy damage
(note that the "does not stack from same caster" in disruption arrow is actually irrelevant, since it's coming from a pseudopet. I included it for completion's sake since all -res powers have it)
This may seem like a nerf as your AoE -res is now only 30% instead of 40%, but because of acid arrow's current radius, and disruption arrow's target cap, this is actually about the same amount of -res unless you're fighting 3-5 enemies that are VERY close together. This has two effects that reduce a trick arrow's time laying down debuffs against large groups. Firstly, acid arrow has been specialized into a boss/AV slayer, so it is no longer necessary in group combat. Secondly, disruption arrow can set off oil slick. This makes oil slick arrow + disruption arrow a deadly 1-2 punch. In two powers, the trick arrower has laid down their oil slick, put out a lot of -res, and lit the oil slick. This is something that currently takes four powers to do.
Any thoughts on this? Possibly suggestions for other ways that powers can be specialized without losing total power? -
Quote:If vigilance hadn't been recently buffed, I would be rallying for the new defender inherent to be the ability to cast certain powers while mezzed and/or for toggles to continue working while the caster/teammates are mezzed. The plus is that it would make the defender's playstyle unique from the corruptors. The minus is that the inherent is already bloated and complicated, and adding another portion to it would make it even worse. Not to mention that the inherent would inevitably favor certain powersets over others (though arguably, any inherent would do that because of the variety of the powersets).Originally Posted by WarMage
What if.... Healing Aura was able to be cast while under status effects.
I think you're on the right track though. It mez protection isn't possible, then fake mez protection like blasters have is the only other option aside from no mez protection. -
Quote:Noted. Ideally, I want to make the power better out of the box without impacting its high end effectiveness.Originally Posted by Test_Rat
My trapper can double stack Triage, and I perfer it to stay that way.
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Quote:Ah! Great idea. Years ago, -range occured to me (or someone else mentioned it and I stole it) but I didn't recall it during our brainstorming. Thanks for the feedback on TA from you and other people. I gave out the call for help in improving that area and you guys did not disappoint.Originally Posted by Redlynne
Leave the To-hit Debuff as is ... and add a Tanker Taunt-ish styled
- Range -75% for 15s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs][Effect does not stack from same Caster]
(above post clipped)Quote:Originally Posted by WarMage
Change Clear Mind to a PBAoE power which affects the caster and all within a certain radius. Bump the cost and recharge somewhat, and Empathy is fixed IMHO.
Although I like the idea of reducing the recharge on Recovery Aura, I would like to see BOTH auras dropped down to 360sec.
I completely agree with you that empathy should have status protection of some kind. It's an (almost) completely reactive set that needs to be unmezzed and capable when things go bad. However, we had to limit ourselves to things we knew the devs at least had a chance of accepting. Black scorpion recently said that he doesn't think that the single target mez protection powers should be given AoE power. Not something I agree with, but that's the end of the debate right there.
As for regeneration aura, it's actually an EXTREMELY powerful buff. It's pretty much instant healing, except it doesn't have reduced power from healing enhancements like instant healing does. I'm sure a lot of people would like to have it be a less powerful, but perma, buff, but the developers are really mindful of removing functionality that players are used to, and I think a lot of people would miss the ability to have god-mode regeneration aura for a small amount of time. -
Quote:They should be, but we missed them. Kinetics repel should have the end cost reduced and the cost per target removed, and EM Pulse should have its end crash removed.Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Rad isn't eitherQuote:Originally Posted by ArchGemini
So is the standing belief that Kinetics is good as is?
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I'm guessing it's the stacking. After looking at raw power data, I realized that -all- resistance debuffs are set to be unstackable. The reason we never realize this design decision (if that's what it is) is because so many resistance debuffs are pseudopets that this isn't apparent.
There are pretty much three options when it comes to this fact. 1: Remove the inability to stack from certain powers to make them in line with the pseudopet debuffs, 2: use some weird grantpower acrobatics to make pseudopets obey unstackability, and 3: don't rock the boat. 2 is most likely the hardest. -
Quote:I plan to do exactly this if this goes well and we move on to ranged blast sets.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Apply modifiers to knockback chance not just magnitude. This would somewhat redeem Energy Blast on Defenders in my eyes; still low damage but at least with more predictable knock.
In my opinion, yes (though of course that would be my opinion). With these changes, trick arrow moves slightly closer to being among the top tier of debuffing sets, sonic resonance ceases to be a mediocre set, and poison actually becomes a viable option. All other sets gain a greater variety in power options as weak powers have been brought up to average and overly situational powers have been made more useful, or at the very least not counter-intuitive in the case of intangible powers.Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
My question is still: do all these changes bring the primaries in closer balance with each other, or do they just buff individual powers that appear individually lacking. The latter is something the devs are cautious about, because without powerset constraints it promotes power creep. -
Quote:I wrestled with that a lot too. I had difficulty wrapping my head around debuffs in the set. Dylan's of the opinion that, in a perfect world, all buff/debuff sets should contain both buffs and debuffs. This allows them to continue contributing to a team even if you have enough defense on a team that more defense isn't necessary.Originally Posted by Draggynn
I suppose my biggest issue is with Force fields.
My personal vision for force field is that it be an amazing defense buffing set (I doubt anyone will argue that the set as it is succeeds in this area) while also having strong personal survivability, an ability to mitigate damage using reliable and controllable knockback powers on enemies, and a few powers that double as extra attacks (the suggested force bolt damage increase and recharge reduction in repulsion bomb are meant to accomplish this).
I'd like to put some defense debuff resistance into the set somewhere. Dispersion bubble is the most intuitive place to put it, put doing that means coming up with a comparable buff to sonic dispersion, and there's no such thing as resistance to resistance debuff (as a singular stat).
I didn't give credit to it because it's not that amazing. Something being auto-hit is not only relatively common among debuffs, it's also not that much of a detriment for an area debuff to require a tohit check.Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I notice, though, that one thing you don't seem to give credit for on things like Trick Arrow powers is the fact that some of them are autohitting. For example, -18.75% tohit and -perception on an autohitting and non-alerting Flash Arrow seems to have a very low probability of happening.
The strength of tohit debuffs is determined primarily by their ease of use. Being able to apply a debuff before a fight starts is certainly an advantage, but flash arrow is unfairly penalized for it.
Flash arrow (current): -6.25% tohit. Can be applied before combat starts.
Flash arrow (proposed): -18.75% tohit. Can be applied before combat starts.
Fearsome stare: -18.75. Mag 3 fear with 20% chance for mag 4. Requires a tohit check, so maybe one or two will be missed.
Radiation infection: -31.25% tohit. -31.25% defense. Requires its debuff to be toggled on to an enemy.
Hurricane: -37.5% tohit. -60% range debuff. Knockback and repel. Difficult to keep the debuff applied because of the knockback and repel, and its tendency to scatter enemies if used improperly.
The to-hit debuffs become more powerful and have more impressive secondary effects as they become more difficult to use. Maybe our proposed version of flash arrow is too close to fearsome stare's power (though I don't think so, since dark miasma has no competition anywhere near its level of tohit debuffing) but I think it can be widely agreed that the current flash arrow being three times less powerful than fearsome stare isn't justified by its ease of use. -
The part that I want feedback on the most is trick arrow. It has a lot of powers that need extra effects in order to be competitive, but the set already has so many debuffs covered that it becomes a challenge of "Okay, what stat does this set not already debuff with at least two different powers?"
We would have liked to have made glue arrow a conceptual copy of tar patch, but that's not going to happen while the set already has two other spammable -res powers that are weak specifically because they're balanced with eachother in mind. Suggestions for how to make this work would be greatly appreciated.