Gangrel_EU
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Quote:To be honest, i think you would be more limited by what enhancements a power can be enhanced BY rather than "what IO sets can it take". You also limit yourself by saying "all the enhancements have to be at level 50"... sorry, but if you were fitting for set bonus's some of the better sets are actually *non* level 50 (especially once you start stacking for a specific bonus)... and if you are going to allow them for set bonus usage only, then they should also be allowed for "frankenslotting". Infact, depending on how exactly you want to swing stuff, you could swap the Triple IO i listed there for a single level 50 IO, to bump up one of the aspects that you felt lacking.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's kind of what I mean - sometimes, options kind of like what I want may exist, but I'd either be vastly misappropriating quite expensive enhancements or altering the conditions. And that's not to devalue what you're saying - that's a VERY impressive list you've put in there. Even if it's not exact, it's a HELL of a lot closer than what I expected would be there.
If anything, going by "odd levels" of IO's ie level 46/47/48/49 IO's, although you might lose a fraction of a %, you can sometimes pick up the orange IO set for cheap... or if you are willing to wait for a bit (some of the Mako's bites i saw on the market earlier on today were going for 1million each, in between bids of 10mill), just place a waiting bid down at Wentworths (this is the time waiting stage).Quote:Generally speaking, I take all the powers from my primary and secondary, I get them to 50 using SOs and Commons and I then slot them with Uncommon Sets. As luck would have it, only a SINGLE Uncommon set exists for each category at level 50. I could probably do more, but I've tried and my enthusiasm didn't last. From the looks of it, I'll be picking pretty much the same Incarnate powers on all my characters, too, with only very rare exceptions. They're almost all melee, anyway. That's more or less what "package" customization does to me - I find a single package that works and then just stick to it.
Side note: The brute/tanker version of Total Focus can also accept Taunt IO sets... although it isn't directly handy for the slotting you were asking for (which remember, i tried to match as closely as i could), with a bit of fiddling around, you could use Perfect Zinger/Mocking Beratment (so quite possibly the same *overall* bonus's and staying at level 50 enhancements) to get the same number of overall enhancements slots applied... -
Quote:With a set bonus included... even with frankenslotting you cannot. But, you have to remember i am just limiting myself to "melee damage" and "Stun" IO sets... if a power can take different enhancement sets, it *might* be possible. This is the essential part: what enhancements *CAN* a power take, and if it is possible.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
No, I mean for Acc/End, Acc/End, Dam/End, Dam/Rech, Dam/Rech, Dam/Rech. That specific slotting, at level 50.
I can however come close to it.
Acc/End: Stupefy (at level 50) +26.5% in both
Acc/End: Rope a Dope (at level 50) +26.5% in both
Damage/End: Mako's Bite (at level 50) +26.5% in both
Damage/Rech: Mako's Bite (at level 50) +26.5% in both
Damage/Rech: Crushing Impact (at level 50) +26.5% in both
[1]Damage/Rech: Touch of Death (max at level 40) +24.1% in both
[2]Damage/End/Recharge: Touch of Death (max at level 40) +19.3% in all 3.
[1] Total Bonus including Dam/Rech ToD:
Acc: +53%
End: +53%
Damage: 103.6%
Recharge: 77.1%
[2] Total Bonus Including Dam/End/Recharge ToD:
Acc: +53%
End: +72.3%
Damage: +98.8%
Recharge: +72.3%
I believe you will hit ED at some point in here with the above slottings... which is something else that you have to fight with
*The last Dam/Recharge is going to be hard... you cannot *specifically* get that at level 50 again, you can if you dropped down to level 40 cap (2.4% difference between the Crushing impact and Touch of Death enhancement value) OR you could slot the Damage/End/Recharge from Touch of Death (a couple % decrease on the Damage/End from the same set...)
No set bonus there (well, 2 slotting Mako's bite reduces the duration of Immobilize effects on you by 3.3%), and you still get a *nice* overall increase.
((just to point out a couple of "complete stat increases here"
Stupefy (6 slotted, well 5-slotted, I am ignoring the proc)
Acc: +74.2%
End: +53%
Stun: +53%
Recharge: +47.7%
Range: +15.9%
Mako's Bite (6 slotted, well 5-slotted, I am ignoring the proc)
Acc: 26.5+18.6 = 45.1%
End: 26.5+21.2+18.6 = 66.3%
Damage: 26.5+26.5+26.5+21.2+18.6 = 119.3%
Recharge:26.5+21.2+18.6= 66.3%
*shrugs* the difference between 5 slotting with sets, 6 slot frankenslotting is surprisingly close in terms of "base stat increases" (and in some area's the frankenslotting is better)... and it all depends on how much you want to spend, and how much you want to enhance stuff by (and if you are truely bothered by set bonus's or not): Overall you get better accuracy and recharge, possible better end usage. You only really mess out on the overall damage increase. -
I would also like to point that for EU *account holders* the link is http://www.mmorpg.com/giveaways.cfm/...ay-Europe.html
*edit* At time of posting, there were only 19 codes left the EU.
*2nd note* That is if the costume giveaway is the Alpha and Omega costumes.
In terms of the code giveaways though, they split it as EU and US region codes. There are *no* regulations for code giveaways as far as i know. However, as soon as it is a competition to win one (ie email to win one of 10 codes), then there are rules and regulations to follow. Giving them away to anyone (until said codes run out) doesn't constitute a competition. -
Quote:Depends on the size of the nail you are trying to hammer inOriginally Posted by TyrantMikey
Seriously, how does anyone play on a laptop? Those keyboards are so small! I feel like I'm trying to cram my fingers into the area the size of a pill bottle to type. I don't even want to think about what it would be like trying to play on a tablet.
And let's not even go into freeze-framing lag when a Rikti Invasion or Zombie Invasion start. Sure, I could turn the graphics all the way down to 0, but that's kind of lame.
No, I'll stick with a system that's designed for gaming. A quad-core PC with 6GB RAM, and a screaming graphics card with its own physics processor and tons of memory. And a display I can actually see.
After all, you don't try to drive a nail with a screwdriver, do you?
Ok, all kidding aside, there are perfectly capable laptops out there that play CoX at decent settings, you just need to shop around and wait for the good deals (my laptop runs CoX at max settings at 1920x1080 resolution fine enough... and it was only £650 when i got it). -
Quote:For Total Focus with frankenslotting?Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Let me rephrase my question - WHICH enhancements would I use to do that and what's the highest level I can do that at?
Mako's Bite as the damage (levels 30-50) comes to 10mill tops per enhancement: Dam/Rech, Acc/Dam, Acc/Dam/End/Recharge, Acc/End/Recharge
Rope A Dope as the stun (levels 20-50) comes to less than 10mill for a complete set: End/Stun, Acc/Stun/Recharge, Acc/Recharge, Acc/End, Acc/Stun, Stun/Range
Stupefy is also an option, although it is far more expensive.
The advantage of Frankenslotting is that you *are not* focusing on set bonus's, and that upgrading each slot one at a time is a more valid way to go (because you are building for *enhancement bonus*, and not *set bonus*.
I think (and this is being honest here), is that the developers *have* to decide on how complex they can make it. Even LoL (as you listed) still has *some* limitations on how you can build characters (you also have to remember that its combat damage is less "complex", in that you dont have to think about 10 or so different damage types, ranged/AoE defence/melee defence/positional defence etc etc etc. So the total number of things you have to worry about is actually less.Quote:People will often tell me that "sure, you can do that" off the cuffs, only for me to go into the Market and realise the enhancement combination either doesn't exist, or is rare or purple or PvP or some such. And even then, that's an easy example of a straight damage power. As you saw, it's easy to come up with an example of a power that, by virtue of its effects combination, just doesn't have sets made for it. Sure, more sets can be made, but unless every combination possible were made into some kind of set, it won't do what I'm asking.
Although when it comes to set bonus's those empty power picks are normally handy for that "just need one or 2" slot IO bonuses... granted Luck of The Gambler +Recharge springs to mind here, but they do have a use.Quote:And that's something I will never get over. I hate systems that force me to take something I don't want in order to take something I do want, and I hate that effect strengths are tiered like that. When that was still the case, I could see having to take Combat Jumping to take Super Jump since the latter is effectively and upgrade to the former, but having to take Boxing or Kick to take Tough still bugs me to this day. And, yeah, I'm switching sides a lot, just to show that this is greater than JUST Inventions. Heck, especially when it comes to powers, an "empty" power picks is one of the most demotivational parts of the game.
I would say "get used to it"... every game out there will have some form of trade off, even if it is "time spent playing the game to do x/y/z". Sure, it might be *possible* to achieve it, but that doesn't mean to say that it should be handed on a plate to you.Quote:Maybe it's like that in real life, I'll grant you that much. But I just don't enjoy that in my games. It's one of the reasons I burn out on Diablo-style RPGs so damn fast - because loot there is random and I have no control over the bonuses it gives me. Each time I go back to town, it's always a huge quandary about whether I want to give up this nice bonus from this piece of armour to get that nice bonus from that other piece of armour. If I could, I'd trade away one of the useless bonuses either piece offers, but I can't. I'm stuck with the package as the game presents it to me.
I would say that your second paragraph here should be "subjective" success Vs Objective Success...Quote:It's this sort of "half-and-half" customization that really irks me and robs me of my motivation to even bother. See, when it comes to costume design, I don't have to worry about my boots HAVING to come with a specific set of gloves, or the colour of my skin necessitating a certain colour for my hair or my bony thorns. Sure, "what looks good" still mandates some limitations, but by their very nature, these are limitations I WANT to be tied to because they're limitations based on what I like, as opposed to what the game mandates for me.
Obviously, that gets into the debate between costume design having no objective measurement of success and character building being entirely wrapped around objective measurements, but that point still stands.
And that is actually once again, some form of limitation that you *should* be against. Of course, I am *normally* of the mind that if someone wants to load both feet in a barrel of a shotgun (metaphorically), i am not going to stop them from doing this. However, I do feel that *mechanically*, and for ease of use, it does make sense to limit what powers can take what enhancementsQuote:I think part of the problem itself is that powers themselves are *limited* in terms of how they are allowed to be enhanced, in that some powers cannot take "non relevant" enhancements/IO sets (thinking damage sets into Healing powers for example).
To be honest though, in the long term view of powers and enhancements, there are actually only a few combinations of IO's that need to be introduced... acc/healing combination (more suitable for heals that need a "to hit" roll), Stun/Damage combination
Game balance, inherent design limitations, inherent mechanic limitations...Quote:This is something that seems very scary from the standpoint of not knowing what to build for, and doubly so because you need a different rune configuration based on which character you play, but it's not that bad when you actually do figure out what works for you. I'll be the first to admit that, even having picked up on it, I still find such a system incredibly scary as it's so very easy to mess up. I appreciate CoH's AT and Powerset system, as a point of fact, for making sure that I don't botch things up too badly even if I just pick without much foresight. But pretty much everything PAST the AT and Powerset systems isn't designed to help me be more powerful, it's limited in a direct attempt to limit what I can do with it.
I wouldn't that you would be able to make something *worse* off... although if you do, then that would be your own choice. However, you would quite rapidly be able to make something *very* overpowered (Frankenslotting with my own set bonus's? Yes please!) if it used the bonuses that are already with the game (which you have to remember, you are limited by only having 5 of any one size set bonus... which doesn't stop you from choosing from 5 small bonus, 5 medium bonus, 5 large bonus style).Quote:Seriously, can you honestly tell me that being able to pick my own set bonuses and my own enhancement combinations could, in any way shape or form, make for a worse build than if I go with Set Inventions? I think not, because no part of Set Inventions is designed to ensure I have something I will need for the game to play well. In fact, if they WERE designed to do this, then maybe my defence-based characters would get even more defence to offset the unfair Incarnate to-hit, no? But that's not what the limitations are there for. They're not there to look after that I don't gimp myself. They're there to make sure you don't overpower yourself.
I would actually be inclined to think that if something like this *did* come about, the "set bonus" for custom IO sets would be of a smaller degree compared to the "pre made" IO sets.
Well, i tend to find the LoL rune system hard to work out what is "best" for a character... so your argument applies to my own view of your much vaunted LoL method (in that it turns unit building into a lot of irritating busy work).Quote:I get that the more customizable a system is, the more of the customization combinations are just garbage and the easier it is to gimp yourself. I therefore appreciate "package" systems that look after me. I do not, however, appreciate package systems which come in packages for the sole purpose of obfuscating the "best" course of action and limiting what can be done. They turn character building into a lot of irritating busywork.
For PvP, balancing is an inherent evil though, because otherwise you will find people migrating *naturally* to the most powerful character. Sure, we get this as well in the FOTM builds over here, but as the game is *predominantly* PvE based, unless it is *hideously* broken/overpowered in all area's/plain not just working as intended, PS seem to be more inclined to let it slide.Quote:I don't see why City of Heroes has to be held to a different standard. Doest that get constant patches, too? Sure, not many of those are about balancing changes, but that's because the game is relatively balanced right now. The first few Issues were quite turbulent, with sweeping changes galore. And, hell, even now we're looking at a rather large-scale redesign of the whole Blaster AT. I don't see the difference as being so big.
Including up coming powersets, there are 10376 fairly unique powerset combinations, not including power pool choices. I say "fairly unique" because although there are powersets that are common to some AT's, each AT has its own modifiers applied to said abilities.
Oh, i didn't include HEATS or VEATS into the calculation either...
Nor have I gotten into the power choice/set bonus/enhancement choices yet... that just add's another level of complexity to the situation.
Looking back at all of it... unless you *honestly* don't want new content to be released, and instead just powerset tweaks/balances to be released...then that is fine, there *might* be enough resources to balance that whole complete mess of stuff out there. -
Quote:From level 10? No, you cannot...Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
What I'm suggesting we discuss is something more universal than JUST that. I'm talking about a system that hands the player fine control over the stat boosts they pick, rather than handing players packages of stat boosts and whole, undividable units. Inventions are just one aspect. Like Hamidon enhancements, they're still limited to the small subset of "everything" that the developers have included, and they're further limited by which powers can take what sets. CAN I slot a power with Acc/End, Acc/End, Dam/End, Dam/Rech, Dam/Rech, Dam/Rech? Can I?
*however* if you allow the full range of set IO's out there... then yes you can. It is called "franken-slotting". Sure, you will more than likely give up set bonus's
Set bonus's are a *linked* but different beast, in that you will more than likely have to take "something that you don't like" to be able to gain a bonus that is normally unobtainable (thinking global recharge here, as LOTG is limited to Defense IO slots) although specific defences/resists also come into play). They also have the limitation in that they do not work if you exemp yourself down tooooo low (and you only really suffer a minor % loss by using a level 35 IO on a level 50 character who never exemps...)
I think part of the problem itself is that powers themselves are *limited* in terms of how they are allowed to be enhanced, in that some powers cannot take "non relevant" enhancements/IO sets (thinking damage sets into Healing powers for example).
Looking in the long term, there is *nothing* to stop the developers from releasing more "combination" of IO's (ie the stun/damage IO that you say that you want)... and i would feel that developers do need to at least have *some* semblance of balancing there... ((side note: Total Focus will take Stun and Melee Damage IO sets, so if you are willing to Frankenslot, you can actually get quite effective mixing the two types, once again, you do lose a set bonus)).
Would like to point out that even in LoL there are certain marks that *do not* appear in all 3 types of rune (no Marks of Celerity, Clarity, Defense, Evasion, Regeneration, and Vigor; Seals of Celerity, Desolation or Insight; no Glyphs of Defense, Desolation, Evasion, and Regeneration). The 4th type is more limited (only allowed 3 of them, one every 10 levels).
Also, it appears to be very flexible, but that is because for a *big noticable* effect, you have to slot *heavily* (or be at least level 20 to use the T3 stuff) into a direction.. but that is similar to how CoX is as well... granted, i am not a *huge* LoL player, but having dabbled in it, i do find that certain characters are best suited towards certain runes... and playing otherwise is *very* bad... unless you know the tactics of the opponent *VERY* well.
Also LoL is a PvP game, and so it has its constant patching for abilities/new characters/runes etc etc all to balance the game.... -
Franken-slotting (using IO's/Set IO's and ignoring their bonus) can give some *very* powerful characters out there.
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Scrap that..
http://www.gamegrene.com/node/385 might help with the difference between (at least in a RP sense) Intelligence and Wisdom... kinda, maybe, fingers crossed
Quote:In conclusion, when roleplaying wisdom and intelligence, here are my handy rules of thumb, paraphrased from a professor of mine: "Intelligence tells you what the problem is and how to solve it, wisdom tells you whether or not you should." Here's another one for good measure: "Intelligence asks, 'What?' Wisdom asks, 'Why?'" -
Quote:Then they are not stupid, they have low "common sense"/wisdom (although that is again debatable, as it varies according to what group/society you are in as well). My reasoning for this is, they are intelligent enough to know that it is raining, but they are not *wise* enough to actually seek cover. Hence they get struck by lightning... this is not intelligence, but wisdom/common sense (thank you old D&D stat explanation)Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Here are a couple of more points I want to address:
On intelligence: It occurs to me that I'm still not explaining this as well as it sounds in my head, so let me try for an example. When I say this race is "stupid," I don't mean to imply they're somehow mentally impaired or subhuman or anything. I say this since it seems we're all heading there. So let's shoot for an example - the Freakshow. These guys are, for all intents and purposes relevant to their intelligence, completely human. They are still complete idiots above and beyond being insane and hopped up on Excelsior. They're the kind of people who thought it was a good idea to replace their arms with clawed prosthetics so they can't wipe their own *****, which puts them in that butter zone of intelligence where they're still higher-intelligence beings and at the same time complete idiots still. -
Quote:I remember the event of the person getting generic'd for Persil about 2 years after the game launched EU side. They had the name for since launch IIRC and where well known (at that point in time) on the forums as well... shame i cant remember what they renamed themselves to...Originally Posted by Minotaur
Another issue is with foreign language words, 2 examples.
Sith - Obvious Lucas connections, but in fact sith is the Scots gaelic version of the better known Irish sidhe meaning faerie.
Persil - French for parsley, but a trade name elsewhere.
There were some genericings of both of these in the past, my suspicion is that they may have looked at costumes and backgrounds for sith. -
Quote:Cos i know speshul peopleOriginally Posted by Dr_Toerag
On a totally unrelated note...
GANGREL YOU DOG!
How come you have your title still? Mine went when we swapped over to a combined EU-US forum structure.
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Quote:I wouldnt say "console" games, instead i would go for "single player" games.Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
The problem with having the sense of effecting the world around you is that 100K other players want the same experience. Really, console games are not a fair comparison to make against MMOs. Everything you do here has to be applied to all players.
Is there a better engine than what we have currently for CoX that would allow similar levels of customisation?
Yes/No... Yes in that a major limiting factor is "how much artwork would we have to redo to transfer them over". No, because changing the graphics engine can also change the "look/feel" of the game. Do we want to change the look/feel of the game just so that we could have better lighting effects?
Some graphic engines are brilliant for using lots of lights/effects within their rendering. They can however have a performance decrease (deferred lighting is in CryENGINE 3.0... allows lots of lighting to be used with minimal performance decrease, however AA/Transparency does have issues).
Aion uses CryENGINE 1.0 (although it did receive a graphics upgrade in its 2.5 release... not sure if it is just CryENGINE 1.0 with better settings or an actual version upgrade)
It is something that i do miss in CoX, and that is lighting effects from abilities/powers. Sure we have "twilight/nighttime" ingame but that is the limit of it. The pretty much look the same in daytime/night time/Inside/outside.
Would it look better? More than likely. Would it change the feel of how the game is currently? Most definitely. -
Quote:There is nothing to say that DirectX *cannot* use OpenGL for 3d outputting... infact, that is an advantage. Direct3D though does not render OpenGL stuff.Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Since Vista OpenGL is now done through Direct X, massivly impacting on the performance. A pretty sneaky way for Microsoft to scupper people who won't use Direct X.
You just have to look at all the QQing done when games like Brink come out to see its effects.
DirectX though *does* open up other areas to ease things through (controller/sound support etc etc).
Brink was one of the 1st OpenGL 3.1 titles though... so it isn't all that surprising that there were problems with it (not to mention as well that you needed a driver update for the 8xxx range of Nvidia cards and up to get proper OpenGL 3.1 support).
*Note* I would like to point out that DirectX is actually the *complete* suite of API's from Microsoft. Some parts of which are "Direct3D", "DirectPLay" and so on. It is actually up to you which parts you which to use (if any).
The advantage of DirectX *suite* is that you can add nice controllers/keyboards etc and at least have the *basic* functionality of them working (remapping of keys/macro recording/stupidly high number of mouse buttons requires more driver support as well) without having to reinvent the whell each time you which to do something.
If an openGL game *didnt* use this advantage then it is making it harder for them to do it.
You *CAN* use OpenGL for rendering, and have DirectSound and DirectInput (and others) running the rest of the stuff necessary to make the game worthwhile (or you can use OpenAL or something else for Sound rendering... etc etc)
((Remember, CoX is OpenGL, so why did i get the same, if not better performance swapping from XP to Vista with the same hardware and driver setup?)).
To add even more confusion to it, a game engine suite can support both openGL and Direct3D rendering (the Unreal Engine is an example of this) -
Quote:I thought that all the newer cards actually *DID* properly support OpenGL (which VERSION of OpenGL is another matter thoughOriginally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
Ok my bad, people may still use open GL...but Graphics cards themselves don't really support it anymore which would be the problem, a lot of the higher end ones have to emulate it rather than actually support it.
Which as I said, is the problem with CoH since graphics cards which do support Open GL normally in the PC market are being phased out. )
I think the problem with OpenGL arose in the earlier versions of it, where there was nothing to stop a graphics card manufacturer from releasing *their own* versions of OpenGL generic libraries, that could cause problems with some other openGL games, which were written "optimised" for the other manufacturer.
Nowadays, the "plays best on" X/Y/Z is more of a saying. Years ago, it was obvious that it was "plays best on"
*edit* Would also like to point out that OpenGL is still *very widely* used. DirectX is limited to Windows/Xbox platforms. OpenGL is everywhere (Android, iOS, Linux, Windows etc etc). -
Quote:Before it closed down:Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Somewhat sideways of the subject, I await the day when an MMO launches that completely breaks away from the concept of gimped support characters as a necessity of team balance, but I don't foresee one of those launching soon, unless Guild Wars 2 is one like those. Yes, they don't have a healer, but that doesn't mean they don't have support. I'd REALLY celebrate the day when an MMO like this launched that WASN'T Fantasy, but that might not happen within my lifetime.
Tabula Rasa with the incredibly OP Medics... you can heal and kill at the same time (both with equal capability). But there is no way that you needed a "healing class" with you (or even a support class.. because half the classes came with a group damage buff that they could take) -
Quote:Had that happen to me once...Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I like the phone calls presumably from some guy in India who claims to be a Microsoft Certified tech who's tired of looking at reports about how many errors your computer has. He wants you to run Event Viewer and be scared by any events logged therein and go to some website that will probably either give him access to your computer or else prompt you to download and run a program that'll do something malicious.
I replied "I am running Linux, so i know you are lieing".
Rather unsurprisingly they hung up rapidly. -
Quote:The AE system gives you tickets for mobs that you kill and i believe also for "mission clickies" as well.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Well, this is primarily a game design concept than it is a suggestion for City of Heroes. Established games - especially as old as this one - aren't really that malleable to having their basic design philosophy changed years after creation. I'm just speaking in hypothetics.
Then again, that's what the Architect system does, I believe - you get bonus tickets as a mission reward if you defeat more enemies in the mission. I don't really know how it works and I'm pretty sure it's not a percentage thing, but it's a possibility.
You then get a bonus on top when you complete the mission.
There is however an upper hard cap that you *cannot* exceed in number of AE tickets that you can earn per mission. -
Quote:Your idea has some merit... however i do believe that it would involve rewriting how the mission reward system works out, because the bonus stays the same if you stealth it and kill just what needs to be killed, and "kill everything in sight".Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's why I suggest simply skipping a fight you can't win, but also skipping the rewards it would normally bring. I've never had a problem with letting people get on with the story if they simply can't win a specific fight, but the gate remains on the reward. I will never really accept the concept of earning a reward because you could afford to die 20 times in a row to chip away at an enemy's health. If you're reduced to this, you're not succeeding in beating the gate, so you're not being let in. You can move on with the story, but you can't have the "stuff" that's behind the gate.
Say I'm unlucky and I run into a room where three spawns have merged and three Sappers are aiming their guns at my head. Say I feel I can't beat that. Then I say "skip it" and all three spawns disappear. I earn nothing from them and I take a hit on the final mission reward because of it. It hasn't stopped me from completing the mission so it hasn't caused me to "fail." I've simply chosen to forfeit the reward for a victory I couldn't achieve.
This is from the mentality that you don't HAVE to win every fight in order to proceed, but being able to do so rewards you with more "stuff." You're not penalised for defeat since you can always just try again with nothing lost, and you're only rewarded if you manage to succeed.
Not to mention as well that killing mobs gives XP.
DDO I believe gives very little (if any) XP for defeating mobs in missions, and instead back loads the whole lot onto the mission complete stage.
On the flip side, if you kill just a fair few mobs inside a CoX mission, you normally get the same amount of XP as the reward bonus dishes out.
In the example that you have given, it would actually be quite hard to say "kill X spawn", as it would actually be 3 spawns (and not the singular)... Easy solution is "Kill X mobs in Y radius"... then you get the nice "cheat method" of run up to final boss. Face plant. Kill mobs around you (including the EB/Boss/big bad)... complete the mission.
CoX is *badly* designed to do this... but the idea does have merit (of sorts).
*edit* I would like to believe that this was why the ability to "auto complete" a mission was introduced... to reduce the amount of *downtime* that a player has when they get stuck up against a section that they cannot complete. -
Quote:The way in which you describe your solution, when compared to what currently happens in CoX... DOES suck.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I've occasionally been told that my solution to using defeat as a gate rather than a penalty is worse than what the game does now, but I stand by it. If you a spawn takes you down or defeats your whole team, have the spawn "leash" back to its spawn point and return to full health. Elite boss beat you down? You can try again, you just have to start over. Ambush took you down? You can go back to the mission, but the ambush will spawn all over again. Death doesn't have to "cost" anything if you can't use it as a tool. Really, the only purpose to making death "suck" is so that people don't consider it a valid combat strategy to just keep tossing themselves at an enemy, chipping a bit of health and dying over and over again, and there are better ways to prevent this than pissing people off.
However, saying that, there are games out there that use that method... and for some reason or another, it doesn't suck, typically because there is something else that can be tied in to ease the "pain of death".
Case in point: In a story instance in a galaxy far far away... I had to defeat the big bad. I died (rather fast in this case).
However, in the story instance, you had some NPC's that showed up to help you out. Whilst i was there dying, twice overall IIRC, they were keeping the "big bad" in combat. Now as the mob was still in combat, the fight could not reset. Which meant that when i came back from the dead, I was:
1) Not in combat so i could re-summon my companion.
2) able to rest back up to full health.
3) able to use medpacks again! (90 second limitation on the combat).
This made the fight better overall for me, as i was able to carry on as if nothing had happened (bar the repair cost).
I have had a similar occurance happen in the open world as well.
CoX helps with the problem in that you can "zerg it to death" if need be... yes there will still be the occasional mob that you by yourself, can not defeat, even after multiple runs, but although it might take time... you *should* be able to do it.
The resetting "back to full health"... If you fail after 3 attempts of doing everything just right... yeah... it sucks and you are liable to go off and do something different.
*shudders at the 10+ attempts on one boss in a galaxy... until i found a nice alternative which involved of LOSing around pillars so that one move wouldnt hit*
*edit* What i am trying to say, is that there are specific instances where your solution would work... -
Quote:I think that this is kinda the best route to go actually for it.Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
"Public quest" type content is another matter, and certainly something that there could be more of.
If it *does* work, you would actually see more players out and about in a zone, instead of being hidden away in their own private instance.
You *DONT* have to take part in it (look at the SC fires for example), but if you do take part, you get stuff in return (and not just XP).
One of the things that bugs me about the game, is that the zones look so devoid of players...
Bring some life back to the zones please... i miss seeing players outside of trips to WW/BM/Universities
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Quote:I do expect a cost to be associated with it, as i am expecting them to end up on the Paragon Market.Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Will I be able to get them without spending real money... and use the tokens I will have saved by not purchasing items from Mecha?
Read above response. To be honest, i think that people would be more annoyed if they were part way through collecting the set, and then having it removed, than if they didn't have it and then having it removed.Quote:Personally, I don't see it is fair that just because I didn't blow hundreds of dollars on points to move up the tree or subscribe like 3 years earlier I will have to spend money on these items that other VIPs didn't have to. This sounded so much less entitled in my head...
"Sorry, but you will have to wait an undefined amount of time to finish your set" doesn't exactly sit well with me.
The only downside to putting it on the market is "what is a sensible cost for the costume pieces".
If we are going by, what i can gather from the forums, that the Paragon Reward Token is *just purely an extra* on top of your subscription fee, and that it isnt worth $15/£10.20/£8.99/12.99/14.40 then i would be expecting a cost of around 600-1200 Paragon Points to cover the entire Celestial Set on the market.
So, it would cost more than a normal costume set (which i would expect), and still fall within the realm of "this is about as expensive as they can sell a costume set for without being lynched". -
Quote:Yes, i know that... of course, now the essential question is:Originally Posted by Golden Girl
They're making these T9 VIP asets available by another way later on
How long will we have to wait to complete the set if we are already part way through when they get yanked?
AKA:
WHEN will they become available for the non T9 VIP players. -
Quote:But seeing as i was not going to get in the 1st place *REALLY* did put the dampener on trying to get up to T9 full stop.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But every month you stay subbed is one less token you need to buy when something cool comes along in the T9 VIP range
*shrugs*
That is just how i feel about it. Even worse is feeling that I would be part way through finishing a set, and then having it removed leaving me with a partial set.
That is something that would piss me off even more
Whilst I have enjoyed the game, and its community (and helped out with a few EU player events over the years), I have to admit that this is one thing that annoys me even more.
As i said earlier, with hindsight, my preferred option would have been a similar style to the old tree, with the ability to just buy up months as and when you had the money.
Now it feels like a case of "spend money NOW, cos you never know when it gets removed totally".
That, to me, feels like an instant cash grab... -
Quote:It wouldnt matter, because i would still be as far away from it... however I initially unsubbed due to the fact that the EU account holders were getting ripped off for the cost of Paragon Points (they cost more than the sub fee, and not just by £0.01 or 0.01).Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So what happens when the next set is also something you'd like?
Yes, if i had kept on subbing for it until now or even when I23 comes out, i would *still* not have enough tokens to even start on one of the sets (unless I23 comes out in 6 months time).
Sure, i could have just kept on paying the sub fee, but I would still have had to pay extra on top of my sub fee (ie the Paragon Points) to actually get enough tokens to get them before they cycle out.
I do like the look of the Mecha armour, but knowing that I would still have to pay a higher rate in the 1st place to get them, it is something that i am not inclined to do.
IF the Paragon Points cost for EU account holders was more in line with the sub fee costs, then I *would* be more tempted to pay for Paragon Points.
However, i am not liking the 10%-13% price increase that there is in place for EU account holders (10% for those who pay in and 13% if you pay in £).
When a "non VIP" route becomes available for the Celestial set (and i would imagine all sets when they get cycled out) I would be all over them... however, I did not feel that any of the sets are worth £110+ to get them before they become "non obtainable in the foreseeable future". -
Makes me kinda glad that i unsubbed, because there was *NO WAY* that I was going to be able to afford to pay £110(ish) to get up to Tier 9 VIP status unless i decided to also wreck my plans for the summer (LRP season).
Hell, just paying month by month for the tokens via subscription is cheaper (only £8.99/month), but takes longer for them to arrive. Even a multi month subscription (even cheaper on top) still takes the same amount of time.
Yeah, kinda pissed off with that as well..
*shrugs*
Personally, looking back at how this has gone, i would have preferred the "old style" with the ability to "buy up missing months" over the "cycling out of rewards for an indefinite amount of time".