GOTerpsPvP

I've been impressed with the art work that I've seen over the years in this forum, and I'm hoping to tap that resource for some assistance with a site that I've created.

Last week, I started a ladder ranking system for players who Duel other players in the arena. The site is called the "CoX Duel Ladder" and players join the site if they want to participate in the ranking system to see how they measure up against the other duelists out there.

You can view the site here: The CoX Duel Ladder Home Page

I would like for someone to create a banner for use on the site.

Requirements:

-It should contain the text "CoX Duel Ladder"
-It should fit in with the black background used on the Web site.

Aside from those two requirements, I leave it up to your creative control. If you want to add additional text of some sort, please do what you think is best.

So, I'm reaching out to those of you with more artistic ability than myself (which includes virtually everyone) in hopes that you can come up with something nice for the site. If one or more of you feel like trying to come up with something, it would be greatly appreciated. If multiple people create a banner, I'll save all of them, but use the one that I think is the best (or that the ladder players think is the best) on the site.

Again, I appreciate your help with this and look forward to seeing what the creative minds come up with.

Thank you!

Terp

It only displays the members that are currently online (on the field I typically view anyway), so if you happened to join the ladder at a time when no other members were online, it might appear as though you're the only person using the channel (which you would be at that time).

Since it's a new channel, it's likely that many of the ladder members have not yet joined, and consequently you may very well have been the only ladder member subscribed to the channel and online at the time you checked.

After one full week, we just had our 50th character added to the ladder. There are currently 37 registered ladder players and 18 ranked characters.

36 ladder matches have been reported, with 18 of those coming yesterday. A very nice flurry of activity. Hopefully a sign of things to come.

When I delete match reports from the "Report Losses" thread, I add the result to the "Match Results History" thread which is also in the Report Losses forum.

Big thanks to all of you who are participating in the ladder and trying to make it work. Fun stuff!

Congrats! I'm impressed

It's certainly true that people can advance quickly through the ladder ranks if they are able to beat the players at the top of the ladder. Many would agree that if you are able to beat the top ranked players, you deserve to be ranked among them.

Just to create an example regarding a hypothetical situation to illustrate why it's good that the ladder works that way. Let's say there were 3 players on the ladder.

-the #1 player always beats players 2 and 3.
-the #2 and #3 players always lose to player #1, and go 50/50 vs each other.
- Player 1 has a record of 20 - 0 and Players 2 and 3 have a record of 10 - 20.

Now, a 4th player joins the ladder. He beats #1 three times in a row over the course of 2 days to take control of the #1 spot (From Unranked to #3, to #2, and finally to #1 after the 3rd win).

-Player 4 has a record of 3 - 0, and is ranked ahead of the other three players who have combined for 40 wins.

Does player 4 deserve to be ranked #1? Based on your above post, I would think that you would say "No" but I would say that he does because he proved that he trumped the previous #1 player.

Now, it may turn out that Player 4 was the rock to Player 1's scissors, and both Player 2 and 3 are paper, and end up beating Player 1. But, until that happens, Player 4 earned his spot at the top by beating the best.

With over 30 players on the ladder after less than a week, let's say we have 100 ranked players after 3 months. If an unranked player beats #1, he would move up to the #51 (101-1 =100/2 = 50 spots. 101 - 50 = 51) after one match. Yes, that's a big jump, but that's how the ladder was designed to work and reward folks for defeating higher ranked opponents.

In order to maintain your ranking, you need to defeat players who occupy the spots above you, or else you will be passed by other players who are fighting and defeating those highly rated players.

It's been unranked people defeating ranked players that have jumped over you.

I think you were as high as #7. Atomic Tactics passed you when he defeated Fire-E. Then Ownage X passed you when he defeated Atomic Tactics. Jax Frost passed you when he defeated Ownage X.

Right now, there are 12 ranked players. If an unranked player defeats a ranked player the calculation is done as though the unranked player is ranked immediately below the bottom ranked player. For example, if Chillin Terp (unranked) defeated Cruel Ownage (1) tonight (), Chillin Terp would move up from unranked to #7 (13 - 1 =12/2 - 6 spots. 13 - 6 = 7), and that would cause everyone ranked #7 and below to drop a spot in the rankings.


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there is a global channel. Ownage and ajax are mods in it. Its called "The Ladder". just do a "/chanjoin The Ladder" to get in.

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Thanks guys. That's great!

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plz move me up one spot plz... Ty

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When you beat Jax Frost, you were ranked #10, and he was #8, so you moved up one spot to #9.

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Can you limit the # of challeges you will get in a certain amount of time?

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I can't really limit the number of challenges a player receives, but no player is forced to fight every player that challenges him. Additionally, as per the rules, once the number of people on the ladder has reached a certain point (over 25 ranked players), only players in the top 25 should be challenging players in the top 10. Players in the top 10 can challenge anyone and/or accept challenges from anyone but they shouldn't have to worry about every player from #26 - #100 all waiting to challenge them. This should give players in the top 10 some breathing room to challenge other players in the top 10, in hopes of improving their rank.

Obviously, the higher you are on the ladder, the tougher it is to find a fight that will improve your rank…and the more people who will be trying to fight you to improve their rank. Such is the way of things on the ladder.

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Do more tournies and put more pressure to make people enter them...

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I will host as many tourney's as my schedule permits but I can't really put any pressure on people to enter them. Other players can also volunteer to host ladder tourney's as well. If someone wants to do this, they are free to give it a go. If they would like my assistance, we can discuss the tourney rules beforehand and I'll offer any assistance I can provide before the tourney and during if I'm available.

As far as people avoiding fights, I don't doubt that it will happen. I just hope that there are enough people who are active and willing to fight that one player avoiding a fight doesn't prevent you from finding a fight that can help you improve your rank.

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Terpman, you're gonna need to make some kind of rule regarding people that avoid matches simply because they may think that they can't win, and only picking those fights where they feel they have the upper hand.

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I'm somewhat limited in what I can do to force someone to fight, other than penalize their ladder ranking, and that can certainly happen.

I know from experience that after a while you will learn who you can beat and who can beat you. Your opponents learn this too, and then the only people who will challenge you are those who you know before hand have a better chance than not of defeating you.

One of the good things about the ladder system is that it does not penalize you for losing to someone of lower rank, unless the person is ranked directly below you, in which case you drop one spot. This should reduce the number of highly ranked players who will avoid fighting someone of lower rank, so hopefully the problem described by Ajax doesn't become prevalent among ladder players.

Of course, some people want to keep than unblemished record…they won't stay unblemished forever as long as the person keeps accepting matches. But I can't force people to fight.

In the situation you mentioned, I don't know if you discussed a fight with either of your toons prior to your first match, but it stands to reason that he would want to fight your highest rated character, the ice/cold. After the win, he didn't fight in any other ladder matches, so it's not as though he was ducking challenges from your rad/psy in favor of fighting others. He simply stopped fighting after that. Since you had challenged him with your rad/psy, he shouldn't have accepted a fight with another player prior to fighting your rad/psy, and it appears that he didn't accept any other challenges.

Now, since there's some rock/paper/scissors involved in duels, sometimes it seems pointless to enter into a duel when you know the outcome beforehand. For example, my ice/thermal got smacked down by an ice/em Tank. If I get challenged by five more ice/em tanks, and lose each one, I may not be excited for my next match against an ice/em tank. The sportsmanlike thing to do when challenged by the seventh ice/em tank would be for me to accept the challenge and either fight it out 'till the end, giving it my best go. Or if I'm eager to fight someone else, call the match after he takes the lead 1 - 0 with a "good game" and move on. If this MM is in a similar situation with rad/psy's based on previous experience, he should still be willing to accept challenges and accept defeat.

If the MM in this case had been ranked #1 and your rad/psy were ranked #2, and he wouldn't fight you, you would move above him to take the #1 spot.

I'm optimistic that if you see him on again sometime, he'll accept a duel against your rad/psy. If he doesn't, please let me know.

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Interesting, shame you didn't start this awhile ago.

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Yeah, I was excited before the launch of the arena when I saw what the dev's had planned for a ranking system, and was very disappointed that never panned out. If this had been started with the introduction of the arena, I'm sure it would have been hugely popular. As it is now though, over 30 people have signed up I think, so I'm very happy with the initial response to the ladder.

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Do we report draws?

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No. Draws are not reported.

I'm glad to see there were a few ladder matches last night. Keep it up!

Right on! Glad to hear it Hobo!


To All:
Please remember that the loser of a ladder match is responsible for posting the loss in the ladder forums.

If you are fighting someone who is new to the ladder, or if you are both new, you might want to say something before the match like "Remember that the loser of the match reports the loss" or something to make sure you're both on the same page.

Even if I'm online, you should report losses on the ladder site as opposed to sending the info to me directly in-game (or simply expecting me to see the results).

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Meloncholy Heart -em/regin

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Myk, please sign up on the ladder site and enter your info including global handle. Or, if this is information for Stasis, ask him to enter the info on the ladder site. Once that's been done, I'll slot you/him in the 8th and final spot for tonight's tourney. Thanks.

So far, 19 players have joined and added 33 characters to the ladder.

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A person can put more than one toon into the ladder system, so does that mean each toon put in will have its own ranking (Ex My mind.sonic could be number 5 while my gimped kat/sr would be slotted at 675) or will the ranking be player based (i.e., My mind/rad,mind/sonic,kat/sr are kept under one ranking and when Im challenged I play what I choose)

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Each character will have its own ladder ranking.

For example, I respec'd my ice/thermal into a dueling build, and added him to the ladder. If he never beats anyone (entirely possible), he will remain unranked. If I later add my rad/psy to the ladder and win some matches, the rad/psy's ranking will go up while my ice/thermal will remain unranked.

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I saw on the website ties dont affect the rankings, but in the recent duels their have been a number of 0-0 ties after ten minutes. Is their a rule like you holding in your tourney that if theirs a tie (maybe if its just a 0-0 tie) then the next match become last man standing to decide a winner.

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No. Tournaments can be set up using the rules established by the tournament creator in order to ensure that a winner is crowned, but for normal matches the terms of the match are decided by the two players involved.

If two players fight to a tie, and then both agree to a rematch under different parameters (i.e. last man standing, 20 min, no insp's, etc…) that's fine, but it's not required.

I should (and will) add a couple points to the tourney rules regarding ties. If the players fight to a tie and both players agree that even the first rematch would be pointless, they can skip right to the rock/paper/scissors. And, if a match is decided on rock/paper/scissors it WILL NOT EFFECT ladder rankings (e.g., it won't result in one player receiving a loss and the other a win, or a change in ladder rank)

Congratulations to Cruel Ownage for becoming the first player to occupy the #1 Spot

Thanks Kitten!

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Inspirations

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Only store bought inspirations should be used unless the two opponents agree to something else.

I can’t enforce this though, so it’s up to players to monitor. If you don’t know your opponent, you might want to arrange an inspiration exchange before the match. Or, you can agree that only store bought insp’s will be used, and if you suspect that they broke the rules during the match you can arrange an exchange before your next fight with that player. When you’re facing a highly rated player and/or one with a good reputation, I wouldn’t expect this to be a problem. Using Tier 3's when the expectation is only store bought insp’s could lead to a poor reputation pretty quick, especially among a relatively small group such as this.

Good question though. I’ve never really used anything other than store bought insp’s in a duel, so I just naturally expect others to do the same. I realize some people can get pretty cut throat and will do anything to win, but fair fights are more fun so we want everyone to be on an equal playing field inspiration wise. So, stick to the store-bought insp’s


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Using Different Builds for Certain Opponents

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Players use whatever build they think is best for the match.

In tournaments and other organized events, you may not be allowed to switch builds between matches, but in regular play you can use whatever build you think gives you the best chance of achieving victory.

I feel as though it’s just the nature of the Test server to try different builds, and have multiple builds that you might want to use based on the situation. As someone who’s been dueling since the introduction of the arena, this has always been the case for me. You find a build that you like, and works well for you, and then someone beats you so you try to come up with a solution that allows you to counter the tactics they used to defeat you. Sometimes this requires you to change your build in ways that negatively impact your performance against others. Then, you find yourself with multiple builds...

Players will only fight each other so many times if the outcome is always the same, so players need to be able to adjust their build so that they can hope to change the outcome of a match that’s been fought before.

I do understand your plight as a MM and not wanting every opponent you face to have TP Foe, but I think that you have to expect that others may adjust their build in hopes of having a better chance to defeat you. They will surely do the same against all other AT’s as well.

Anyway, that’s my two cents on Inspirations and Build Switching.

I’m glad to see the responses and interest I’ve seen so far. I’d like to see some matches and see someone take control of the #1 spot. I hope to respec one of my toons tonight so I can duel someone

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Thanks Fury! We'll see how it works out. I encourage you to help spread the word and get other folks who like to duel to join the ladder.

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I signed up already with my 2 regular characters. Is this ok?

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Yes. There is no limit to the number of characters that one player can have on the ladder. Of course, a player should never report a loss to another one of his own characters.

For all the duelists out there, I am attempting to start a ladder that will rank you against all others. If you are interested in the ladder a CoX Duel Ladder Web Site has been created with links to Rules and such.

I'm not makin' any guarantees here, but I've wanted to do this for a long time and think it could only be fun.

You can contact me with questions by PM or sending me a tell @TerpMan

[u]Join the Ladder here:[u]

Enter your Info to join the Ladder Here
<ul type="square">[*]Enter your character information and send a request to join the "guild"[/list]Make sure you Read the Ladder Rules before you join.

[u]Ladder Rankings[u]

You can view the Current Ladder Rankings here

Ranking System

[u]Reporting Losses[u]

To make the ladder work, the loser of each ladder match needs to report the loss:

Report Losses Here or Here (for folks who have not yet been added to the ladder by an Admin)

<ul type="square">[*]If you have submitted your info to join the ladder (i.e., posted in the ”Join the Ladder Here” Forum and requested to join the guild), but have not yet been added to the Ladder, you can begin fighting immediately. However, you will need to Report your Losses Here (for folks who have not yet been added to the ladder by an Admin) until you are officially added to the ladder by an Admin[/list]Ladder matches can take place on ANY server but all ladder players should be willing to go to the Test server to fight players from other servers.

Players will be added to the ladder and ladder rankings will be updated by an Admin ASAP. Depending on ladder activity and admin availability, this may occur multiple times a day or once every few days.

[u]Good Sportsmanship[u]

Good Sportsmanship is encouraged among all ladder participants. Ladder matches are designed to encourage fun competition in the CoX Arena. Don’t be an @$$!

If you have a problem with another player, you can Report Problems to a Ladder Admin if absolutely needed.

Anyway, HAVE FUN OUT THERE!

I’m not sure how many of you are interested, but I guess we’ll see. The best players who fight the most will occupy the top of the rankings, but I encourage all of you who are interested in some quality fighting to join. Ultimately, it should help people match up against those of similar rank for some really fun matches.

Ladder Tournaments coming soon...

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Anti-Venge groups are the ones that [censored] suck at it,

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Or maybe we don't like the effect the exploit has on the game...

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hows bout jus make it so vengence is a self buff! then it cant be stacked noway! problem solved

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Wow. That was easy. Nice fix Cuch.

Was this post a birthday present for CZ?

Happy Birthday!

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Well, I could see how some could consider this griefing, but I certainly don't consider it to be such.

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Let's see. "Harassing another player so badly that he leaves the game entirely isn't a bad thing". Check. "Blame the victim". Check.

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My problem with your logic is that activities that some might consider "harassment" are considered by others to be "PvP". If the same group keeps killing me, or you, or anyone over and over again, that's simply not harassment. If someone is using profane language to insult you and your family, that's harassment and is a reportable offense. That does happen. However, I don't think that verbal harassment = griefing.

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I don't even know what griefing in a PvP zone is!??!?! Maybe someone can explain.

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Let me give you the most eggregious example of griefing I've ever seen in a PvP zone. Some novice came in and actually asked for someone to give him a hand and show him the ropes. What he got was chain teleported deep into the zoned, ganked half a dozen times, and then when his gankers grew tired, he wasn't allowed to leave the zone.

When he got close to the gate, they'd port him back into the zone. Over and over. He had to disconnect in order to escape.

You'll excuse me for saying so, but I think that being forced to run away from the game in order to avoid being harassed counts as griefing. Wouldn't you agree?

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Well, I could see how some could consider this griefing, but I certainly don't consider it to be such. Nor, do I necessarily believe it to be true based on the fact that it seems like a certain (very high) level of stupidity would be required to allow this to happen. Even without a travel power, I think you can leave all of the pvp zones within 30 seconds (the safe period after respawn). You mention that the player "wasn't allowed to leave the zone" and I guess I don't know how that can happen. I've been in the pvp zones hundreds of times, and I've never not been allowed to leave.

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You'll excuse me for saying so, but I think that being forced to run away from the game in order to avoid being harassed counts as griefing. Wouldn't you agree?

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If you consider being killed in a pvp zone harassment, then you probably shouldn't go to pvp zones.

If you keep repeating the same behavior that got you killed before, you will likely be killed again. Playing against intelligent opponents forces you to adapt. If you don't adapt, expect to be killed the same way over and over again.

Well, I just read every post in this thread, and feel compelled to respond. Good OP.

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PVP isn't optional for COX's long term survival.

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All of my pals that were 100% pve have LONG since moved on from this game, as the pve content go boring, naturally. You can only experience the 1 to 50 game so many times before you realize that it's nothing more than a photo copy of what you did the last time...

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With one or two exceptions, the only players that I've known since before PvP was introduced who are still around today are those who are interested in PvP. Everyone else has moved on.

Why go through the same PvE content over and over when you can play a new game and get completely new content? I really don't know.

Well, I do it in order to play new characters in PvP. If I could auto-level to 50, I'd never run another mission again. Seriously, do I have to do this CoT cave map AGAIN!!!

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his playerbase will never be driven by pvp. The game would fundamentally have to be re-written from the ground up with balance in mind for that to happen.

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i think the imbalances are just as much of a problem in PvE.

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Imbalances exist a plenty in the PvE game, but they are often easier for players to spot in PvP than they are in PvE. Obviously, people don't care quite as much if the overpowered spines/regen is helping your dark/dark defender level up faster than he would normally as they do when that same spines/regen pummels your dark/dark in PvP combat. On the PvE side, the imbalance makes you happy because it has a positive effect on your character's performance. On the PvP side, the imbalance makes you mad because it has a negative impact on your character's performance. As such, people are more vocal with their complaints about the imbalances in PvP.

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To appeal to the largest possible audience, a game should appeal to both PvP and PvE segments of the marketplace.

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I actually think that CoX does this quite well.

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The griefing in PVE is nothing compared to pvp as far as I'm concerned.

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I don't even know what griefing in a PvP zone is!??!?! Maybe someone can explain. Turning off enemy chat eliminates 90% of what I think many people refer to as "griefing" (i.e. insults, crying, whining).

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again I say MAJORITY are good people and play fair.

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Please explain what behaviors are "unfair" in the PvP zone. Inspirations? Teaming? ???

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only losers feel the need to name-call.

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Most of the time, the people with the harshest insults in PvP zones have just been killed. They need to say something to make them feel better after being beaten. Just don't let their talk bother you.

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For me, badge hunting is my end-game content.

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And what happens when you get all the badges???

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I’d like to ask the developers a direct question.

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I'm not sure that posting in the PvP Gen Forum is an effective way to do this.

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the larger a match gets you will notice how much more balance there is.

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Even if you're talking about team arena matches only, I wouldn't say that the game is any more balanced as the match size increases. The balance remains the same, it just becomes easier to hide your shortcomings in a large match.

I don't think you'll hear too many X-Factor toons saying "In that 16 v 16 I really helped the team as much as our &lt;Insert Standard 8-Man Team Member Here&gt;"

It's not like one team can make up for its lack of emp and/or kin's in a 16 man match much better than it could in an 8 man match.

If there were more 16 v 16 fights, there would eventually be a few lineups that would be considered "optimal" (as there are today with the 8 v 8 setup), and everything else would be left by the wayside (as it is currently with the 8 v 8 setup).

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So again: do you plan to refine PvP?

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Yes. The dev's will continue to make changes to balance the game in the future.

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why not auto-level to 50 on test?

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So, Bodyguard doesn't help you when you're outnumbered 54 - 1? Thank goodness. It sounds like you haven't had much luck in a limited number of 1 v 1 situations either. Have you had a chance to test the changes in more of a balanced team battle situation (4 v 4 or 8 v 8)? Have you ever seen a team of 8 MM's all using Bodyguard and fighting together? I haven't, but I'm pretty sure they would wreck some shop if they fought as a team and were up against a force of equal size and level.

I've been impressed by numerous MM's I've run into in pvp zones since the change, more than before.

The Bodyguard buff appears to me to be one of the single biggest AT buffs ever. It may not be what every MM wants, but it's pretty sweet. Some MM's are going to be among the best 1 v 1 pvp sets and will no doubt be a great addition to any team.

That being said, I want to do more testing.