Futurias

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I want to make sure that you guys know that Ice-based powers work on the fires as well. That is why you are able to target the fires with any power.

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Hmm. That's the only thing? I'd think things like "Hand Clap" (ala hulk clap) and wind powers would work too.

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Invul max on passives should be 17.85 = ((1 + (6 * (.2 * 1.15))) * 7.5)

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7.5% base * (1+ (6 Enhancements * .2 Enhancement increase)) * 1.15 for +3 Enhancements = 18.975.

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Uh, States... you don't get a 15% buff to your BASE defense based on +3 SOs. It's

7.5 * (1 + ((.2 * 6) * 1.15)) == 17.85

Edit: sorry to be the 9 millionth person to correct this

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I believe this is what is actually happening and it adds up correctly.

7.5 * (1+ ( 6 * (.2 + .03))) = 17.85

Basically, each enhancement is worth .20 and each + is .01 on the enhancement (assuming maximum +3 difference.)

{{PS. I am amazed that I figured it out if it is right. I'm not that good at math.}}

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Wet Ice - six slotted with Defense SO's - provides about 3% defense.

Energy Absorption similarly slotted provides 3% per target (so a maximum of 42%).

*caveat - I'm doing this stuff from memory, so I'll doublecheck it and repost later if I'm wrong.*

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Defense buffs (and resistance ones) are 5%/10%/20% so your numbers are off a bit I think.

One thing to remember is that Wet Ice has a resistance component that is supposed to be much stronger than it's defense part.

It sounds like the defense is a bit *too* low, myself. But not by a lot.

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Yes, Wet Ice and Energy Absorption provide relatively small DEF buffs. This is not a bug and by design. Wet Ice provides a base defense of +.5%; Energy Absorption provides the same buff for every foe within melee range (up to a maximum of 14 targets).

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I *think* he means that wet ice is 5% (or a very low value that is hard to detect) and that Energy Absorbption is a 1/2% defense boost from up to 14 mobs (or another 7% unslotted.)

If it accepts defense slotting, you can probably double that up to 14% with 14 mobs.

So that's a theoretical 19% more to the base defense, which IIRC actually gets them up there to about 57%.

With the other changes to accuracy (and the fact that AV and Rulari are the highest accuracy at 75% and everything else is either 50% or 65% base, that means that an Ice tanker could theoretically get down to nearly 5% base to hit against almost any mob, which sounds a bit better.

That starts dropping off radically at +1 and aboves of course.

Perhaps another change so that they have a power that is short duration but can provide up to 10% (unslotted) defense more and 20% fully slotted, but in such a situation that it is only available as a "deep" trouble button?

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One shotting by AV's. In a word, you are ALL correct. It's not a good thing for an Ice Tanker to be leveled by a single blow. So we're going back and changing the damage done by AV's so that it's no longer possible for a Tanker to be one shotted.

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Good to hear, as that means squishies won't die.

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Yes, I hear the complaints about Permafrost. And I'm...thinking. I've read many suggestions - and gotten more than a few PM's about it. There's a lot of good ideas there. So I'm going to do some pondering there.

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I hope we can help!

Good luck and I hope your brother a safe deployment and that he may return safely to his family that cares so much.

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I've seen more than a few people crying for Ice Tankers to have their own place to give feedback. And since we've already planned to change Unyielding some, a few think we're ignoring Ice in favor of Invulnerabilty. So I wanted to start this thread.

Interesting. As those drops in accuracy help the more flat rated "defense" based ATs, that's encouraging. I think that some information on some powers being bugged might be useful, so that people understand that they aren't being ignored.

The AV/Monster and Rulari "nerf" is well appreciated by the non-defense characters too though!

Here's a couple of changes coming that I think will help:

Reduced Accuracy of Minion level Turrets from 75% to 58%.
Reduced Accuracy of Lieutenant level Turrets from 94% to 65%.
Reduced Accuracy of Boss level Turrets from 113% to 75%.
Reduced Accuracy of Snipers from 75% to 65%.
Reduced Accuracy of Archvillains from 90% to 75%.
Reduced Accuracy of Giant Monsters from 90% to 75%.
Reduced Accuracy of Monument Minions from 75% to 58%.
Reduced Accuracy of Rularuu Bosses from 90% to 75%.


BIG thanks to Circeus, for his tireless devotion to all that is Ice Tankerish. Hip hip hooray!

PLEASE keep the discussion limited to Ice Tankers. Anything else will be removed.

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Um, my comments went away somewhere? Odd.

That 20% off the top of accuracy does give any defense based character a fairly large boost.

I think people are still worried about a couple of powers that seem bugged or don't work though, so a comment on "fixing that" or "working as intended" may need to be handed down from on high!

The interesting change with this is that AVs and Monsters (and Rulari!) are now not quite as tough for the non-defense based characters, which I think is good.

I think these (and other "events" or monsters in zones) need two things to make it really good.

They need to happen slightly more often (says the person that still don't have Babbage on my character I've played over a year) and players need more aware of them when they are happening. Maybe not quite a broadcast in the Zone that something is happening, but perhaps something that will alert an aware person that the event is in play.

The jump points (on maps) need to be made, but I think the biggest change (to really make people get into the shard) is to have normal missions out there (no street hunts, but interesting door missions and such.)

I think magical hover rock as a buyable power would be a neat thing or there is a mission you can run to keep getting it.

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Just a quick note since this is a hot topic. Regarding the issue of Earth Thorn Casters stacking multiple Quicksands (and such).
Without getting into details, ALL CoT Thorn Casters have been reworked. The amount of control powers these minions have will be severely reduced or outright removed. Expect other related changes with all Thorn Casters.

This change will come in Expansion 5.

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That will make the Positron TF much more "doable" than the last time I tried it.

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You are aware that blasters have the same HP as defenders and controllers right? Those ATs do fine with the same HP as blasters, because they have tools(control, debuffs, buffs, heals) to make their HP last a long time. Blasters lack those tools.

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I know that blasters have the same HP as controlers and defenders. Trust me, I am reminded of that fact every time my Kin/Psy (39) Fulcrum shifts. Considering the up and coming desperation I was hoping that blasters would get an increase in hit points to help them use the ability.

About blasters getting other abilities, I'm still hoping that the devs wont say, "Blasters got desperation ok we're done here folks." I'm hoping desperation is a precurser to looking at the secondaries for blasters. I'll tell you what really sucks the big one, getting a really cool ability and having it toned down to uselessness in the next issue. I'm hoping that the fixes for blasters are good, fair, and permanent.

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Man, just imagining the screams of anguish from all of the defenders when they hear that blasters got boosted beyond their "low" hitpoints just makes me cringe.

I know I'd be *very* upset if that came about.

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To be honest, I really hope that he means "Along with some form of protection/defense/aggro reduction/ect".

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Me too. A little later in the lecture someone asked if there was any ideas to help blasters. Mr Emmert said something to the effect of I allready said some of my ideas to help blasters.

Honestly, I hope that they at least give blasters more hit points. Really, why not? They aren't mages in DnD after all.

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You are aware that blasters have the same HP as defenders and controllers right? Those ATs do fine with the same HP as blasters, because they have tools(control, debuffs, buffs, heals) to make their HP last a long time. Blasters lack those tools.

More HP aint the answer. More survivability is the answer. Desperation isnt going to do much for that, unless it lets you bypass the damage cap. Even then, its not going to be very useful, unless it comes with some sort of MoG type ability attached to it.

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I kind of get the feeling that it probably won't bypass the damage cap, but *keep* you at it for a longer time (or maybe some of the damage becomes unresistable or something.)

Turning Blasters into solo tank-mages is definitely not what he's aiming at.

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You're right, caps are a sort of nerf that only affects the min/maxers and leaves the rest alone. That's what many people were asking for in the last round of regen nerfs, a cap on regenneration.

Instead, the key regen powers got nerfed.

I'd be happy if the devs go the route you're talking, but I have my doubts.

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The way they changed that was so that you still had to spend the same number of slots to get the lesser effect. If they had capped it like you were wanting, it would have required less slots and so therefore you could plug them into power pools/attacks more, which would still leave regen "better" in a very important way.

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What is it about developers ( GMs in pen and paper games too ) that they want us to play a game the way THEY want it played? Why can't we play it our way? This is becoming more and more like EQ with every passing comment I read that Statesman makes. He might be passionate about the game, but I think he needs to get his finger on our pulse.

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This is a simplistic outlook. Developers are gamers too. From what I've heard, many of them do play the game.

And who do you cater to? The people that *want* the game to be EQ in tights? The Counterstrike people that don't want anything other than combat?

It's their game and they have their vision. The game does not fit everyone.

Nor should it. If there was only one perfect game, life would be very boring.

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If the standard truely was "if invincible offers no challenge prepare yourself for the nerf bat", that wouldn't be so bad. The problem is that the standard really is "if anyone with your powerset has less challenge than we want you to have, prepare for the nerfbat." If you're not min/maxing the build, learn now, the nerfs are going to be designed so that the min-maxers are brought to "normal" so anyone less optimized will be subnormal.

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And this my friends, is my problems with "nerfs" in a nut shell. Yeah sure, SOMETIMES something really IS out of wack and needs fixed, but 9 times out of 10, nerfs happen because a few people learn how to beat the system, and the rest of us "normal" gamers are the ones that end up paying for it. I can't DO what tankers on these boards brag about. I can't herd whole maps... i can't solo AV's. (I have a hard team beliving this one personally..) I can't tank 50 +7's, at all, let alone go cook dinner while i do it. But apperently people here brag they can, the dev's belive them, and nerf us ALL as a resualt. Ah well... at least my tank hit 50, and i hae my memerories of being a "super" hero... seeing as how Statesmen's plan for 50's basically involves rerolling... I'll guess i'll give that a shot... Can you at least tell me, Mr. Statesmen, who you aren't going to nerf anytime soon... so i can give them a shot.... You've said Defender are where you like them... but i've heard that before about... tanks... scrappers.... hammi o's.....

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Strangely, one of the "Tanker" nerfs didn't affect casual players in the *slightest* because they weren't hitting the 90% resistance cap that they added.

Changes can only affect the power levelers/min-maxers. Say they add code to mobs that after you get 30+ mobs within 30' of each other they debuffed defense and resistance around them? How does that affect people that don' herd?

Very little, as if they are getting more than 30+ mobs, they were probably going to die anyways, where as the min-maxers were not even ruffled before, and now they have run into a hard limit that they won't be able to supercede.

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Thanks for the Notes Butler! Some interesting stuff there, but like many of the other posters, I don't understand the hate towards the NPC shops. They serve a purpose and they work pretty well to me.

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<shrug>

Sounds vaguely like other comments States has made, most recently at GenCon -- where he's alluded to his belief that higher-end enhancements (read: SOs) are substantially more widely available than originally intended.

What really are the alternatives for players?

1) Increased dependence on drops
2) Increased trading -- anyone remember early Request?
3) Greater reliance on Contacts for enhancements, consistent with general trends towards encouraging storyarc- and mission-oriented play.

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This is just going to encourage people to play some origins over others (to an even greater degree.)

With the way Vhaz are already, and only getting DOs from them, the contacts that send you off to hunt Vhaz are going to be very unpopular.

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Statesman clearly doesn't like the idea that people just go to the store every few levels and buy all their enhancements. He wants us to use our drops more instead of just running to Talos to sell after every mission. I see the stores leaving, the Power 10 concept being removed, drops of all kinds increasing, and new contact stores like the level 30s have for level 10s and 20s being implemented.

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That sounds like an idea I threw out a while ago. At level 12+ and level 22+ you don't get TOs and DOs anymore, but the level of drops is about 1/2 less.

The other thing I mentioned is that if you run into a mob that drops Magic/Natural and you happen to be magic, you *only* ever get magic drops.

The other idea I had, had to do with tweaking the types of drops (damage/accuracy/recharge/mezzing/resistance-defense/debuffing) by AT.

So, for instance, Blasters get a lot of damage/accuracy drops, minor mezzing and debuffing.

Defenders are pretty much everything (while including healing.)

Just some ideas.

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Bubbles work all the time no matter what happens to the Defender. They're a click and not a toggle. They have no requirement for set up time before a fight. No need to divert aggro. Nothing. In exchange for that there are two damage types the bubbles don't work against. (I can't begin to explain why Toxic isn't defended against.)

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The code for "Defense" against Toxic does not exit *yet*. Positron or Geko told us this alreayd.

Futurias 1

Futurias 2

Futurias 3

Futurias 4

This is, of course, Futurias of Virtue fame!

My Dark, Dark, *DARK*, Defender that primarily travels by teleport.

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Manticore...guys. If you truly listen to us. Please, at least for a partial episode, bring back Apex.

Our last vison of Apex is standing in Atlas Park, all alone, shouting, "Level 15 scrapper, looking for group!" It's kinda a sad way to end it for him.
Sure it might reflect how alot of us have lost good friends in the game and have had to continue on without them, but I'm sure there's people out there who'd like to see that he's doing alive and well.

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yea, i must admit, Apex really grew on me as well. i would love to see him come back and help out in fashion, or atleast cameo apperences. the last part of the story arc Blue King really did well inmy opinion. i actually felt something towards those characters. man, it would be awesome to see Apex back somehow.

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He deserves to be a Freedom Phlanx Reservist, IMO. That's a good way to keep him around.

AND BRING BACK WARWITCH!

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As I said in my previous post however, the Brawler will be the main character of a story-arc that will start in issue #7. A specific threat will force him to get more actively involved.

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If there was a mission that you fought side by side with Brawler would be pretty cool.

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This really is the coolest mission that doesn't exist.

Break in, rescue %Freedom Phlanx Member%, fight your way out the exit as the "sidekick".

It would be the most cool way to earn your Freedom Phlanx Reserve Membership.

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1) Stand with feet shoulder width apart
2) Grasp reality firmly with both hands
3) Twist sharply.

How do the rest of you come up with creative stuff?

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Sporatic and recaltrant.

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+4 mobs? Since when? You might be able to affect them, but I seriously doubt "floor" their accuracy/damage by yourself at +4.

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The math has been done many times. You can get something like 300% -ToHit on your own between your powers and Fluffies. I'm not making it up. And like I said, by the 3rd or 4th Dark you're adding almost nothing. Two DNs is -75% damage, and all the mobs will be at 5% ToHit. Other than the Tar Patches, there's not a lot to add to that...

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You can get a -95% accuracty with +++ SOs in Darkest Night only. Pets are *only* going to be throwing their debuff about 1/4 of the time, so that is BS. And they are 99% of the time slotted for 1 accuracy and then whatever recharges you can fit.

Dark Fluffies are cool, they are not *nearly* as cool as people try to make them out to be.

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For darks, in addition to tar patch 8 times over(doing 340% total dmg, not base dmg)
Shadowfall x8, its defense and resist stack togother
not to mention anywhere between 8 & 24 Dark Servants running about
Darkest Night, totally gimping mobs accuracy and dmg output to miniscule numbers

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You forget the 8 X Darkest Night (ie. 10% damage (the minimum) and a *whopping* 640% accuracy debuff.)

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A single Dark Defender is already capable of flooring accuracy and damage on +4 mobs. Because of the purple patch it's not really worth fighting above that level. A second Dark Defender adds a bit... but by the 4th or 5th, you're just getting a ghetto Blaster with holds.

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+4 mobs? Since when? You might be able to affect them, but I seriously doubt "floor" their accuracy/damage by yourself at +4.

{EDIT: Also note, Dark Miasma has only one AOE damage debuff for about 25-35%. The other damage debuff is your targeted heal so can only affect one target.}

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For darks, in addition to tar patch 8 times over(doing 340% total dmg, not base dmg)
Shadowfall x8, its defense and resist stack togother
not to mention anywhere between 8 & 24 Dark Servants running about
Darkest Night, totally gimping mobs accuracy and dmg output to miniscule numbers, a team of 8 darks can be quite impressive beyond just tar patch( as a side note, the funnest 8 defender team would be 8 storms, its like watching a soccer game rather than a fight)

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You forget the 8 X Darkest Night (ie. 10% damage (the minimum) and a *whopping* 640% accuracy debuff.)

{BTW, did you now that debuffing damage is the exact (mirror) same as the 90% resistance cap, but applies to all ATs?}

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Kins and Dark Defenders get better healing abilitys and buffs then a true emp does.

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In my 43 levels of being a dark defender, I've never buffed anyone. Silly me!

Regarding healing, that comparison only holds true for the actual heal numbers of Twilight Grasp and Transfusion compared to Healing Aura. Take into account that most of us dark/kin folks dedicate at least two slots to accuracy, and none have Heal Other or Absorb Pain ... there's really no need for an empathy defender to have "heal envy" of us. Feel free to have "no need to heal" envy of us dark defenders though!

I won't even touch that "true empath" comment. Nope. Not me.

<runs and hides>

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You don't have Shadow Fall? That's a very important power later on.