Futurias

This just seems to be "more" of the Base Cost Mentality.

Things that are neat should be expensive and require work. Except they forgot that this is a game and we aren't here to work.

Thumbs-down... again.

Hooray for maxed out SGs demanding people run in SG mode or be kicked. Hooray for yet more obnoxiously overly expensive fluff that they are afraid that large super-groups might abuse.

Come on, Cryptic! Get your heads out of the sand and actually listen to your majority of customers that would like to use one of the largest features of City of Villains!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Except those two lucks lasted 1 minute and only affected things slightly (-25% base accuracy.) 25*1.5*1.3=48.75% accuracy. The AV will most likely only have to swing three times and you are dead (and AVs generally attack pretty fast, so that the healing over time is not as good.)

Saying that MoG is only as good as a few lucks is a disservice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two lucks simultaneously is identical to the effective defense bonus of MoG with none of the downside. Of course they only last 1/3 of the time. Howerver, for a fight where I have a choice between no healing for 3 minutes and expending six lucks, I'll prefer the lucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you are going by the "100%" value of Lucks which is 25%/35%/50% defense.

They are actually 1/2 of that value against the base accuracy. So 12.5%/16.5%/25%.

It would actually take two *large* lucks. Two little lucks would only affect things slightly, as I understand it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you quote a red name? I've spent a lot of time testing this and I see no evidence that they are "1/2 of that value against the base accuracy."

[/ QUOTE ]

It was when Castle was explaining that Darkest Night was 18.75% debuff, which through us all for a loop until we realized that it was a -18.75% from the base 50%.

Anything pre-i4 that was stipulated at "percentage" of a defense or accuracy was always against the 1-100% scale, but they have switched over to affecting the base 50% accuracy now.

So Lucks at +25% were against the 1-100% scale. But now with the way math is working out, it's actually a -12.5% against the base.

It's still 25%, but 25% of *50*, the default base.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Except those two lucks lasted 1 minute and only affected things slightly (-25% base accuracy.) 25*1.5*1.3=48.75% accuracy. The AV will most likely only have to swing three times and you are dead (and AVs generally attack pretty fast, so that the healing over time is not as good.)

Saying that MoG is only as good as a few lucks is a disservice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two lucks simultaneously is identical to the effective defense bonus of MoG with none of the downside. Of course they only last 1/3 of the time. Howerver, for a fight where I have a choice between no healing for 3 minutes and expending six lucks, I'll prefer the lucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you are going by the "100%" value of Lucks which is 25%/35%/50% defense.

They are actually 1/2 of that value against the base accuracy. So 12.5%/16.5%/25%.

It would actually take two *large* lucks. Two little lucks would only affect things slightly, as I understand it.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And slotting for defense allows you to face off with Archvillains that are higher levels (+3, fairly easily.)

What? It *could* be useful? If slotted? Yup.

Figure that an archvillain +3 is 50%*1.25*1.3=82.5% accuracy. Now factor in 80%*1.57=125% defense.



[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't work like that. A +3 AV has acc mods of .5 (for rank) and .3 (for level). They aren't multiplied in until AFTER defense is applied to the base to-hit of 50%.

Assuming MoG is at least 75% (which we're all pretty sure it is) there is no reason to slot MoG for defense against a +3 AV. The calculation would go like this:

Base to hit(50%) - Defense(75%) =

-25%(5%) (Minimum to-hit is 5%, so the to-hit that is multiplied by accuracy is 5%)

5%*1.5=7.5%

7.5%*1.3=9.75%

(please note you could have multipled 1.5*1.3=1.95*5=9.75%)

Slotting MoG for defense would not change the result in any way.

[/ QUOTE ]

The "subtractor" from the base 50% accuracy would actually be 37.5% (75%*.5) actually. So -37.5*1.575= -59.1% againt 50 (yes, a negative number.)

Now the tricky part is if the developers decided to bound the low end at 5% and then you get to multiply the AV and diff modifier. 5%*1.5*1.3= woulce be 9.75% "base accuracy."

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Figure that against getting hit *82.5%* of the time for 130% archvillain damage. You are over nines times tougher running MoG for a short time with a few holes.


[/ QUOTE ]

The correct accuracy assuming no defense is 95% (bounded from 97.5%). Now I can't disagree with you. All things being equal you have a better shot against the +3 AV running MoG than running nothing. But that tells us nothing.

Run against the same AV with:

Dull Pain, IH, two little lucks (50% defense)

Even assuming no other defense or resistance, you're now much better off than you would be under MoG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except those two lucks lasted 1 minute and only affected things slightly (-25% base accuracy.) 25*1.5*1.3=48.75% accuracy. The AV will most likely only have to swing three times and you are dead (and AVs generally attack pretty fast, so that the healing over time is not as good.)

Saying that MoG is only as good as a few lucks is a disservice.

This is not to say that MoG shouldn't get a bit of a revisit, but I'd say that the easy way to boost it is to limit the health hit *slightly*. Getting a 50% drop in health would allow you to effectively get a 1/3rd extra hit points with almost capped resistance and capped defense.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
from the 2 pre-canned Net-res-debuff answers i got, i can tell that this issue has been debated before. I don't want to drag a dead horse out again but it looks like you guys are dissecting the power into it's individual parts without considering the compounding effects of defense with resistance together.

MoG Might be a net resist debuff when compared to your total health but the remaining health is protected by awesome defense AND is resistant to the very few hits that get through.

I know that Arcanaville has dissected all this but can you give me a cliff's note version? I still believe the remaining 25% health with 70% resist at insane defense levels is more survivable than 100% health with no resist and regular defense level.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uberguy hit the key points, but I would also note that Regens are normally at an advantage against toxic damage. It's our strength. In MoG it becomes a weakness, a detriment. Where a regen will usually have about 20-47% resistance to Toxic, you now have 75% (capped) but you only have 1/4 of your HP which effectively makes it even more of a debuff.

Now you asked a trick question. You asked if MoG was superior to a regen at 100% health with no resists and regular defense. Well that't true, it's better than absolutely nothing. BUT, MoG is substantially inferior to two other options available to regens:

1. Your normal regen powers (especially, the vastly more potent IH + Dull Pain combo)

2. Two lucks

Either of those options is vastly safer than MoG. It's not even close. I've tested it pre-I7, it was true then. Now it's even worse.

People see 71% resists, 80% defense and think UBER! But when you add that -regen, -heal, -75% of your HP, you're in a demonstrably worse position than you were before you hit the power.

[/ QUOTE ]

And slotting for defense allows you to face off with Archvillains that are higher levels (+3, fairly easily.)

What? It *could* be useful? If slotted? Yup.

Figure that an archvillain +3 is 50%*1.25*1.3=82.5% accuracy. Now factor in 80%*1.57=125% defense.

(IIRC, it actually works out to 40%*1.575=63% but directly to the base accuracy total. So a +3 AV is no only hitting you about 9% of the time.

Figure that against getting hit *82.5%* of the time for 130% archvillain damage. You are over nines times tougher running MoG for a short time with a few holes.

That's why MoG does (not) get changed, because it has utility and does work.

It just doesn't work thematically in regen, but oh well. There are several power oddities that are like that.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Besides, isn't half the fun of Mayhem missions being able to blow the crap out of your surroundings?

[/ QUOTE ]

/signed

"The <insert villain group here> is up to no good. They have a warehouse full of supplies and vehicles stockpiled. We need you to make sure none of it is ever used . Destroy all their supplies and arrest as many of them as you can in the process."

Can you say "GANK THE MAP"? Now THAT is some good ol' fashioned heroing!



All the best.

[/ QUOTE ]

There aren't very many of these new maps, I think they are fairly intensive. Hopefully we get to see some really great things out of it though!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Love the new 'deflected' instead of 'miss'.
Actual onscreen evidence of FF buffs etc having an effect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe now other methods of damage mitigation than TEH HEALZ will be recognised, eh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, probably the biggest QoL upgrade for non-healers. Forcefield, Radiation and Dark will all be "appreciated" for what they do.

[ QUOTE ]
i LOVE the fact that i can hit pedestrians with my /kin powers. Huge fulcrum shifts, always a target to siphon speed.... Oh glorious day!

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably something that would help with the "immersion" factor is if you hit a civilian it is "teleported" out. That way you are defeating the civilians, but not really hurting them.

I do love seeing level 1s running around.

Independance Port Mayhem!

1) As stated by the developers, we are now supposed to have "regular" bank heists as part of our newspaper. These did not show up at all in Shark's Head.

2) I had no problem wreaking havoc and clocking up my time so that I could do my bank job. Smashing cars worked very good and I think some of the NPCs were breaking stuff to give me some time.

3) Slows and -Jump: Um, wow were the debuffs used often and lasted long. A chainlink fence became an impassible barrier. I would suggest toning this down a bit, as it slows down the action a lot.

4) Longbow showed up just as I found my bank from all the insurance premium increases I was causing. They, of course, followed me right in the door. Nice!

5) Vindicator alert! The Elite Boss Aurora Borealis showed up to beat me down, only to find out that a SS/Inv brute at full fury and eight reds is a quick beatdown*er*! Nasty fight that I came out with 1/30th of my health bar. Dang Psi damage.

6) Random wanderings afterwards, I found the little Police Station (dang, I was looking for something else.) No badges for me!

7) It was a blast, plain and simple! Temp Power of "speed" increase was quite nice. I need to see if you can earn the temp powers from the lower levels.

[ QUOTE ]
4 of the new paragon protector elites, conning orange, ripped through my SR with little effort.
6 orange rikti bosses had a rougher time of it.

Having only the RCS to test in, I can't honestly say that I'm feeling either buff (defense scaling or passives) at this particular moment.

Without a respec, I'm unable to give Bill a proper attack chain redo. Nice to see Crey conning properly in the RCS. Unfortunately, you have lvl 50 bosses with way grey minions surrounding them.

On my EA brute, I did notice a distinct improvement in the number of misses.

Lastly, please remove the grey popups for "dodged" and "deflected." With the lack of graphical optimization, that's just one more piece of unnecessary graphics floating in front of me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, orange bosses are +0. You need to go up against +1s to +5s or so to really see the scaling change.

[ QUOTE ]
Sigh... because the defense changes affect MoG since MoG is you know a defense power. Are we supposed to talk about the defense changes without talking about defensive powers? If so, how does that work?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you are supposed to *try it out* and see if there is a problem.

"I'll get hit 50% more" does not actually tell you if getting hit 50% more is broken and makes the power useless.

[ QUOTE ]
Momemt of Glory needs to be changed. This power depends on the mobs being at 5% final to-hit. The defense bonus was formerly high enough to make that so. Now with the changes this is much less likely to happen. Only even conned minions can be capped at 5%. Every other rank of mob will be higher.

Since MoG is rarely needed fighting even cons this is a significant downgrade. Any additional damage is meaningful to MoG since the power does not allow healing or regeneration.

I recommend one of the following:

1. Remove the HP drop

2. Remove the -heal, but keep the -regen

3. Throw the power out and replace it with Overload

4. Throw the power out and make it an actual regen power

[/ QUOTE ]

So you got noticiably more killed running MOG now?

[ QUOTE ]
That's what I was complaining about. You'll just have to plop down $35 (you'll get a "month free" inside the box that costs $50 on the shelf) to avoid being put in the "have nots" category in the game. That's lame.

I'd much prefer just tacking an additional $3 on each month's fee and make _all_ expansions free. It's about the same money either way (except spread out more with the no-box-expansion route) but it avoids segmenting the playerbase. I find very little value in buying the cardboard from the store. Heck, even the disks are useless since you'll have pre-downloaded all of the content on it before it's available in stores anyway.

If it's just a matter of putting something new on the shelves (so they don't get shoved to the back), why not re-release the original box (with updated content on the CD so people don't have to download it all when they buy the game) with new art featuring whatever new stuff is in the expansion with each issue? That would keep the CoH box in the "new releases" shelf fairly regularly while keeping the playerbase from segmenting.

Heck, it's annoying enough when you're teamed with someone who can't use your base's teleporters because they don't own CoV. Imagine if you had to ask the team if they all had Box #3 before you selected a mission in one of the new zones? At least bases are mostly useless so it hasn't been a big problem yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. As an expansion that adds cooperative content between CoH and CoV, I think it could add quite a bit and still be 'good'.

I'm definitely more of a "watch and see" on this.

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. That's quite a lot for an update. Looking forward to I7 now though, my friend's debuff routine is going to be hurting a little until it goes live.
What was the issue with the mission rewards? This another anit-PL fix?
Just curious. I'm trying to figure out what that means in relation to the difficutly slider. So, if I run a mission on relentless, the maximum bonus I can get is the same as it would have been for two levels above villanous? Or am I misunderstanding that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Level 2 characters can't get level 40 Invincible mission bonus. That's pretty much it.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Changed To Hit Debuffs to use the 5/10/20 Enhancement progression.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does that mean the NPC now have the new to hit system ( to hit check before level check ? )

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a prepatory patch for i7. It was included early because of build schedules.

[ QUOTE ]
Making the same few missions harder does not, has not, nor will it ever equal 'new content'. Harder does not equal smarter. See cuz they'll either increase xp given out or decrease debt.

Nevermind the bad code that spawns a map full of yellow and orange minion/lt combos (and only at intersections.. lotsa empty empty hallways) in coh. In fact, I rarely see any mish hero-side that isnt that way from 1-25 or so. (And yes, I'm set to heroic.)

[/ QUOTE ]

The spawns of +1 are normal and "working as intended". They can be rough, but it's to throw in a bit of a challenge. Not everything is white.

[ QUOTE ]
What I see is that full attention is only being given to the PvP side of the game. And each 'tweak' to better pvp makes pve suck worse than dirty brown water.

[/ QUOTE ]

PvP is not the root of all evil. If something is abusable in Pvp *and* PvE, why shouldn't it be fixed in both?

[ QUOTE ]
Even with all the xp and debt changes, I still run out of missions sometime during L9 and either need to street sweep or go to the Hollows. Neither of which are very appealing to me. Yet the focus remains on PvP issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Hollows "equals" PvP problems? I think you have PvP paranoia.

This latest patch was a minor balance patch leading up to i7. That's it.

[ QUOTE ]
My 50's have been nerfed into the ground for PvP's sake, yet cannot get their own PvP missions. Oh, and the maps are broken for them.. still. Nor have they had any new content in .. well I can barely remember the L40+ content in coh.. long enough that I cant even remember the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even sure what you are tying to say here. Because they haven't added PvE content for the 45+ game it is all PvPs fault? And not the fact that they've been filling in content at lower levels?

[ QUOTE ]
It would be nice if in these between issue patches they'd fix the quality of life issues first.

This patch contains a lot of ill-conceived things. I'd perfer the hami-o exploiters keep the exploit for however long than than see some of the truely dumb things this patch does.

Here's an idea.. scrap this patch, continue with issue 7 and once issue 7 is released, go back to reworking the items in this patch.

Instead of breaking more of the working systems, how about fixing some of the already broken ones?

[/ QUOTE ]

Realistically, it looks like they are stating that "debuffing" stuff is now supposed to be equal to the upcoming Defense (and scale correctly.)

Debuffing is probably getting nerfed because Defense is getting such a big boost in i7.

Probably too much of a good thing.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Accurcy buff was the wrong phrase... what it should have said was accuracy modifer for level. I edited it to make it more clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, there is no accuracy modifier so to speak. What the "accuracy modifier for level" is is how enemy Base ToHit changes with level. It's not actually accuracy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think "rank" modifier is pretty accurate. I *think* PCs now get a rank modifier equivilant to AV/Heroes. About the only Hero/AV level thing that we get, really.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that we should relax.

However, since states is a historian and not a mathmatition it would be nice if when he did post on the math that he posted the entire math so that who ever edits or overlooks his statements (which I would think someone does) catches these over sights.

It would also be nice to have it all posted too so we all can get a better understanding of what is going on. After all if one is confident in the changes, one should have no fear in allowing them to be viewed.

Maybe its just the way I grew up but if when I told my father about whatever ordeal was going on and simply left out the parts that reflected bad on me, it would be viewed as me lieing even though everything I stated may have been truth. Like the first post stating this change was due to HO's or the math that did not factor things, or if it did factor them right, then the posts past saying the things not factored were part of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, that's the point. Jack does not have someone proofreading his posts before they come here. He's just trying to be in contact and let us know what's going on.

I think it's called "being approachable" or something inane like that!

[ QUOTE ]
So that means what either Statsman is a lying cheething whhezel, incompentent boob, or cant do math? Not exactly a stellar reputation when he cant even get HIS OWN NUMBERS right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good grief, Neko. The guys not a mathematician, he's got history degrees.

Somebody give this guy some proziac or something before he bursts a blood vessel.

[ QUOTE ]
medium prority, your own words, and yet they let it leave test

[/ QUOTE ]

Medium means fixing it as soon as they can reasonably track it down and fix it, not "stop the world and fix it over everything else".

[ QUOTE ]
so you think its also lagitimate for some to be baned from chating for inforing a PuG how their powers work? It was tested and Up-
Enter is two slow for it to stop spaming only MACROS can get you chat baned. So guess i haven to stop informing folk how my 4 kenitcs power work?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, *SLOW DOWN* your macros that explain things. Or make them bigger explanantions. For something that is to keep people from *incessantly* spamming public channels, I think this is a good thing.

[ QUOTE ]
and when peope get baned for talking in team withtheir macro how many peopel you think will contine to play this game?

[/ QUOTE ]

They can not spam chats and still play. Spamming chats is perfectly within reason for the developers to "control". And they did and are. If your enjoyment of the game *requires* you to spam chats, that is not the developers fault.

[ QUOTE ]
So basicly if a CRITICAL GAME BREAKING BUG (crashign to desktop is by definiton game break, it haping ever other mision is prety damn critical) doen't happend to YOU its a low prority?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it happens about 1% of the time or to 1% of the people, its a fairly medium priority (as all crash bugs should be) if it happens to 25% all the time, it's a rollback the patch (which has happened.)

Your histronics are just the bleating of someone that is angry and has to take their anger out on a very professional company that at least *really* converses with their playerbase.

Most companies just say "this is how it is!" and don't even have conversations about it. Jack could have taken the easy way out and published his thoughts on the web page with *no* ability for people to "officially" talk about it where it might be heard by himself.

It's a very gutsy thing.

[ QUOTE ]
you mean liek pushing a patch to live with a known reported bug in the new escort missiosn that mad some poepl crash to desk top.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bugs happen. Depending on the severity will tell them where the "priorities" are. This is normal in any MMO.

[ QUOTE ]
You know until the safemode patch i got a escore on eveyr other mission, ireguardess of character and level. And i have to PETETION teh GMS 3 times a NIGHT to clear them or i woudl crash to desk top.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, because you had some problems makes it 1000% worse? I don't even *remember* this bug and the problems it gave other than "it happened" vaguely.

[ QUOTE ]
How abouit coding in a chat spam filter to issue 7 then pushing it to test, and tey cant FIX it until issue 7 hit, that will ban people using macros or typing to fast with
emotes
local
team
broadcast
request
etc

you mean massive game breaking bugs like those that the players wil have to suffer for /a month/ with on live?

[/ QUOTE ]

*Only* the emote thing is being adjusted. And that is because the developers are nice enough to say "break dancing is cool. We'll change our code so you can still break dance."

All of the other "spamming" chats are not being changed, as people can abuse them.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NOW can we please get back on topic? From the numbers presented in this thread, to me it doesnt look like keeping the To-Hit DeBuff enhancements Schl A would be game breaking.



D I S C U S S

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind there is also the issue of needing to keep to-hit debuffs and to hit buffs on the same schedule as they are essentially the same variable but with opposite signs. Hamidon Enhancements were generating a problem that needed to be dealt with in this regard and while not the major reasoning behind the change were likely nontrivial in the matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically the reviled Defense Debuff Hammies (Lysomes?) that also were END reducers were allowing *defense* powers to be Schedule As instead of Schedule Bs.

I think. I think it has to do with Damage enhancements or their "mirror" Damage Resistance enhancements are seen as the same numbers in the code. That's one of the reasons that Master Mind pets can't be slotted for Defense or Damage Resistance. You would put in Damage and it was slotting the Damage Resistance too. At Sched A, no less.

[ QUOTE ]
What it really means is that FF needs more utility in its other powers rather than pretty much nothing but defense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Technically, it has other utility powers. They are just all the same "one-trick pony" that no one really likes, even if they can be effective.

[ QUOTE ]
I was able to manage a test stacking two Tar Patches of my own, an the before/after numbers worked out to a ratio of 1.60. If they used to stack in a nonlinear fashion, the devs changed it without noting it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't be sure if I was remember 3 or 4 stacking, I was pretty sure it was 3 stacking, as you could only get the 4th tar patch to stack about 1/2 of the time.

It might be like you guys are explaining. I just remember being able to more than double my teams damage. Made AV fights a lot more reasonable for Duos.