FrozenDeath

Regardless of how you came off or how people responded to your project, i think it's misguided to come here looking for a comic artist. I can draw and paint reasonably well to produce images. Illustrating a narrative that continues over time, where the artist has to draw lots of mundane things in the backgrounds at various angles, people with good anatomy, dramatic expressions, and so on is a different ball of wax.

I can think of a few people here that have the ability to do it and I'm certain they are busy with their professional lives.

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Should one lie about how bad someone had gotten over the months or should they be honest about it? I've seen too many artists and writers deal with people whose smug attitudes have ruined potentially awesome projects.

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Well I can sympathize with you for having bad experiences, but I don't see how it really relates to you coming here to find artists.

Also my brain is overflowing with potentially awesome projects. All the time. They are just floating around in different states of potentiality. I usually turn the awesome knob down a bit to the level where I can actually accomplish something.

BW has a redline critique here

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Yes, a "real" Rowr Doll should support Firefox and adhere to modern standards. (There's a reason the star trek page references IE 5 as a requirement. The page is OLD.) Forgive me if I laugh at the conceit that Safari matters enough for anyone to LOL at phailing on it.

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A real Rowr doll would do all sorts of things in the hands of the pervs here.

/Battlewraith

You've really got a gift for rendering there, my friend. That helmet looks like I could reach up and grab it. There are a lot of elements in your other pieces that rival 3d shading as well.

Personally, though, the reason I savor this one and many of the pieces in your gallery is that they really bring to mind the era of EERIE and CREEPY particularly, but Epic and Heavy Metal too. The vocabulary and design sensibility of your stuff evokes to me the stuff I loved as a kid that got me into art. Keep working, keep growing, and most of all keep enjoying what you're doing. Thanks for sharing!

/Battlewraith,

Hola,

I picked up two giftart projects from the satisfaction thread. This is a wip of the one I'll be able to show, Sparky's elec brute Dark Sparky. I'm trying to go for a Phil Hale vibe on this one. So far so good I think:

http://battlewraith.deviantart.com/a...y-Wip-92554504

/Battlewraith

Wow he finally went digital. Awesome. Congratulations Scarf that's a great piece!

/Battlewraith

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I'm going to bow out of it at this point. I came in, because 'the artist in question' had disappeared and many were left feeling they had no option. I made this thread (and some art) so that they would have one. But I'm not here to take away customers from a fellow artist.

I hope you all can kind of see why I'm saying what I am.

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I guess I can kind of see it but I don't agree. I have no relationship to Gill. I offered to do two pieces simply because people in this community were getting ripped off and burned on doing commissions. I am not getting paid for this. I'm not stealing someone's customers. If either of the people I'm doing a piece for want to go ahead and continue with their commission with him that's fine with me.

I got involved in this to support the cox community. It's absolutely not to help his reboot or whatever you wanna call it. The whole microsoft outlook email meltdown thing sounds like a load of crap. Taking your deviant page down because people can try to reach you there is.......egh whatever.
I really hope people get their money and/or art--and that it doesn't take another 2 years and another reboot. Talk is certainly cheap.

/Battlewraith

The brushes, startup meshes, and user meshes are all labelled tools. And I can't tell you how much aggravation and confusion there has been in 3d circles over the years about what they meant by "tool". In terms of that program, calling it a tool made some sense because you could use a 3d mesh to paint on an object. For example you could model a branch with leaves and then paint it all over a sculpted tree trunk.

If you look at the most recent version of the software, they still call these things tools but the menus and folder conventions refer to them as meshes to a much greater degree. Also ZTools that are meshes are stored in content directories and are imported/exported exactly the same way as 3d assets in other programs.

tricky [censored]

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To clarify, I consider a 3D item to be a tool. While there is artistry involved in the creation of that tool, the item itself isn't a 'finished' product because it's reliant on the rendering stage to bring it to life.

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You use a rationale that makes no distinction between tools and content/assets and doesn't really have a basis in how 3d applications are structured. A tool is something created for a specific purpose. A paintbrush is specifically designed to apply paint. Likewise digital tools are coded to do specific tasks.

People use digital tools to produce content, the same way traditional tools are used to create pictures, sculptures etc. An easy way tell the difference between a tool and content is that content, with few exceptions, has to be loaded into the scene where a tool would be part of the toolbar/menu set. Giving someone a 3d model of the hulk is not equivalent to giving them a paintbrush; the equivalent would be giving them a picture of the hulk.

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Sometimes, I hear critics mention 'you used another person's mesh, textures, and scenes'. By that same logic, I will point out that a painter uses another person's paints, brushes, and canvas.

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Yeah, but it's an analogy based on faulty logic concerning tools. Using someone else's content is not the same as using their tools.

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So why should a digital artist be required to make their own models?

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I don't care if they do or not. To each his own. This is your personal belief, it's not for me to change your mind. It's just that you're labeling someone's actions as lazy and reprehensible for recycling their work, while defending your own use of other people's content with all these artificial and highly debateable distinctions about "finished product" and what constitutes a tool.

http://pascalblanche.deviantart.com/...roces-91221145

Pascal Blanche is a noted 3d artist, been around the 3d scene from the early years. This is a typical workflow for a 3d artist, starting with a thumbnail sketch, rough modeling, sculpting, texture work, color correction, etc.

/Battlewraith

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Doesn't necessarily make it any more or less 'lazy' then any other form of art.

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Yeah, that's sorta the point. Why lambast the 2d guy for recycling his stuff when it's a common practice to outsource digital assets in other communities?

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My only real point is generalizations are stupid, whether something is a common practice or not. And it's somewhat insulting to use them when (if) you're trying to be objective.

(Sidebar: Technically, that's a generalization. Take that as you will.)

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I'm sure that everyone and everything in this world is a precious unique snowflake that deserves individual consideration but the tragic fact of the matter is that, unless you want to spend your life discussing endless permutations, generalization is necessary--even when discussing the horrors of generalization.

(BTW the earlier post was drawing a comparison, not making a generalization.)

Lol I'm drawing a comparison between different practices, not characterizing the entire 3d world. I am a 3d artist. I said it's a common practice and in certain segments of the 3d community it is--look at the volume of meshes, texture packs, props, etc. that are on the market.

/Battlewraith

Go Go Nadya!

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Lastly, I couldn't disagree more with your last part. Just like the 3D guy, your not sure if he's responsible for everything your seeing. His line work? His color? Stock photos used? Pre-made photo shop brushes? Just like the 3D guy, it depends on the artist and what tools he brings to the project.

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I don't mean every 2d guy. Based on the information I've been given about this particular case, with this particular artist.

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1 is a finished product being changed, the other is base items and or settings which by themselves are nothing being used to make two different images.

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Yeah it's the whole "base item which is nothing by itself" attitude which motivated me to bring 3d up. It really seems that a lot of 3d people view base items as simple raw material there for them to produce "art."

I've studied 3d modeling for years. The first head I did took me 2 weeks and was pretty crappy. Even now it takes me a few hours to sculpt something I'm satisfied with. When you buy someone's 3d asset, it's not nothing. You're buying their expertise and whatever aesthetic sensibility they bring to the table. How is it any different then me doing a quick thumbnail sketch and handing it off to a friend to draw and render the antatomy, and then doing some paint-over work when he hands it back to me? I'm comparing this to the guy that reuses his own art as an asset.

Also, who decides when something is finished? I would assume the artist unless its commercial work.

/Battlewraith

A 2d artist draws a picture from scratch. Then paints over parts of the image to create a new version. That's lazy.

A 3d artist uses someone else's mesh, somebody else's props, maybe textures and/or default lighting and that's ...not lazy?

I don't see that big of a difference. And for my part, I'm a little more comfortable with the 2d guy because at least I know he's responsible for everything I'm seeing.

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Not to derail, though I think the actual topic has run it's course already. I do have to make a reply to this last sentence though

"It's all the same, 2d or 3d doesn't make a difference"

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Yeah I didn't mean to imply that the were identical in terms of process, just that cutting corners in 2d is not somehow worse then in 3d because the latter lends itself to specialization, recycling of assets, etc.

/Battlewraith

Yeah in digital art in general reuse is a powerful asset. And most highend 3d is a collaboration between people who specialize in specific facets of the process. But if you were going to apply for a job or enter a 3d competition, you would be very clear about exactly what your contribution to the product was (modeling, animation, texturing, lighting, etc.).

This distinction is lost on the hobbyist/freelancer level where you have someone presenting "their work", which constists of someone else's meshes, skin textures, etc. with posing and some post work.

A lot of people are fine with that. Not everyone has the same opinion about what an artist is or does. I just think its silly to look down on this guy for cannibalizing his own stuff, when so many people are using shortcuts and incorporating other people's labor into their own stuff, as if calling it 3d somehow elevates it another category where that is justified. It's all the same, 2d or 3d doesn't make a difference.

What exactly constitutes a "reskin"? Is that synonomous with "paint-over"? It's pretty cheeseball to do a commission for one person and then do a commission for someone else by reworking the same piece. But is that the case here? Is he taking a commission that he did and then reworking it to his personal taste for self-promotion?

I doubt I'd do that but I can sympathize because any time you work for a client they impose their aesthetic sensibility on the piece. There are often things you would like to do but can't because that is not what the person is paying for.

Also, at least the guy is reworking his stuff. I've seen so many paintovers where somebody takes an image from a magazine or the web and traces over it, adding props and whatnot and presents it as their work. Not to mention 3d, where its commonplace to use other peoples meshes, textures, etc. to make a composition.

It is bizarre he won't let it be diplayed there. That doesn't cast him in a particularly good light.

/Battlewraith

CH's pose is a bit ambiguous. She has a very forward motion to her pose and he is kinda curling up from beneath--the impression I get when I first look at the forms is that she's about to ram her knee into his chest. It sort looks like he's half-heartedly looking to get her attention as she blows on by.

Overall it's looking like a good composition, I'm just putting that out there as something that stands out to me.

/Battlewraith

Geeze! Kerse can you drop me a note over at Deviantart about what you had in mind for this piece?

http://battlewraith.deviantart.com/

Also, I am working on the Dark Sparky piece but i'm trying to get some 3d issues resolved, so it's going to take some time.

"Booji Boy" putting his fork in the toaster in the Devo video is a powerful metaphor for anyone ever burned on a commission.

What a surprise! lol

satisfaction

/Battlewraith

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Yeah, the tutorials look pretty sweet. What would really help me though is some solid 3D figures..... or a recomendation on a good entry level program for creating figures. My Carrara experiment is proving more dfficult than I anticipated.

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Here ya go:
http://www.makehuman.org/blog/index....st=s1210243808

I haven't used it myself, but it's free and I've read posts from other 3d artists saying its good.

Not to be a pain Lightslinger but do the energy beams etc. they shoot have specific colors or are you leaving that up to the artists?

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ok first thing is that the link doesn't work bro and second thing is.

What happened to your main account? Why aren't ya Battlewraith anymore?

How have ya been brother? Great to see you. I honestly didn't know that was you!

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Hey bro, thanks. I deactivated my account a couple months ago. My friend's account is still active even though he hasn't been playing either, so I've been using it to post here. Still doing art, will start doing cox commissions again soon. Good to see ya man!