I think some of it would depend on your contract. I have terms that have to be agreed to when you submit a request form to me. In mine, I state that I'm fine with posting, but I MUST be expressly credited for the work. I also protect my commissioners by agreeing to not sell prints of work that you have commissioned (just seems unfair to me, dunno how other artists are).
Wish I could be more helpful, but I would kind of like to know if there's a legal precedent for this too if it hasn't been addressed by any sort of contract. Terms of commissioning are good for both the artist AND the buyer.
Edit: It seems in the realm of possibility to me that an artist can say that their work is for personal enjoyment only and not for public display.
Legally, unless the artist has the commissioner sign an Artist Release Form (found on the Graphic Artists Guild online, fairly sure), then technically, LEGALLY they cannot use the artwork anywhere. Whether or not most of us commissionable artists do that? Nope. I specifically state that reposting the work, unaltered, is fine by me, but if you want to crop or alter, just ask. It's pretty lenient.
But this person, AFTER the work was done, said I couldn't post it, even if I paid for the work and have rights to the character being portrayed in the work.
-Virtue's First Naughty Girl-
Some artists will specify that they retain copyright on commissioned pieces. Assuming you agree to that, then the artist has the right to complain if you post it in places that s/he disapproves of, since you theoretically shouldn't be posting it anywhere without the artist's permission.
I'm not a lawyer; I can't say who owns copyright if no specific agreements exist. First thing I'd check do is check that you didn't already agree inadvertently to granting all copyright to the artist. If that's the case, then you can do what you want but s/he can cause you legal trouble (even though s/he probably won't unless it's just for the principle of the thing).
If you didn't enter into any such agreement then I'd tell 'em tough titties until they prove to me that they own the copyright, but I'm ornery that way.
He/she is shooting themselves in to foot if they don't allow you to post a piece. After all, if a customer is happy and wants to show off some work and brag about you, what better way to get your name spread around? He/she should just sign the piece, add their email and website, and watch word-of-mouth do the advertising for him.
Is the artist stating why they don't want it shown? Maybe there's more to the story.
The bottom line is, once it's on the internet, there's no practical way for the artist to stop the piece from getting around - unless they asked you to not post it beforehand, in which case they might have a case.
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But this person, AFTER the work was done, said I couldn't post it, even if I paid for the work and have rights to the character being portrayed in the work.
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Having rights to the character portrayed does NOT automatically afford you the rights to the portrayal. Here again, some artists will spell this out and others will rely on commonly understood copyright law.
Are they having a fit over it being posted at all or just on certain sites?
Life lesson I guess to not do anywork or commissions that may test your nerves later on.
[thinks back to work he's done....]
He said other sites are fine, but HF was strictly forbidden, even though that's where I host my commissioned pieces.... My only complaint is when does the peice of art become property of the commissioner and not the artist? If someone pays someone to build a house, the builder doesn't get to move in....why should a piece of art paid for be any different?
-Virtue's First Naughty Girl-
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But this person, AFTER the work was done, said I couldn't post it, even if I paid for the work and have rights to the character being portrayed in the work.
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Okay, I spell that sorta stuff out beforehand. Sadly, the legal ball falls in the artists court. You may have paid for a piece of artwork, but unless you've bought the rights to it (by which I mean the artist's release form in the last post) you're stuck. :/
Did they give you any specific reason why they didn't want it displayed? It seems surreal to me that an artist would do a piece but not want to display it.
Having worked in the publishing industry before, I don't think I'd ever commission a piece if I wasn't sure of Full Rights. No offense intended, but artists are fond of comparing their craft to other professions when people ask for free work, but get a little uptight when people who pay for their work want to use it in their own way. If I've commissioned you to do a piece, that piece is mine, and I'll do with it what I please. The artist's connection to it shouldn't keep me from being able to do just that any more than a company like Ford can tell me I can't mod out a new (or used) car once I buy it.
Now... if they're going to give you a better rate because you're only getting First Rights or some other variation on the rights over the piece, and if you've signed a contract stating that you'll abide to those rights (or their website includes a disclaimer providing for those rights), then you might be in a bit of a bind.
Where do we go from here?
Oooooh, I get it. Was it something that could only be posted at HF because of the content? If not, then I can understand. I wouldn't want "clean" work there either. Its understandable that an artist would only want certain types of exposure.
As to ownership, intellectual property will always be different from real property, which is why copyright laws exist. Its harder to value, but easy to illegally profit from. You also don't get to move into your house without a contract. The builder is agreeing to give you ownership, just like an artist COULD, but that doesn't generally happen.
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As to ownership, intellectual property will always be different from real property, which is why copyright laws exist. Its harder to value, but easy to illegally profit from. You also don't get to move into your house without a contract. The builder is agreeing to give you ownership, just like an artist COULD, but that doesn't generally happen.
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Right. And that's what I was saying: As art director of a small magazine in Minnesota, we would only commission pieces where we had full rights, so this wasn't ever an issue. Photographs, on the other hand, were generally purchased either from a stock photo supplier or bought under First Rights contracts.
Where do we go from here?
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....why should a piece of art paid for be any different?
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There are levels of purchase in the art world. Just because someone pays for a piece doesn't mean it's theirs to do anything they want with it. Many of the limitations are unspoken, but a good example is 'don't make prints of it'.
If a commissioner wants total, unfettered ownership of a piece, the artist is usually paid more (sometimes several times their usual rate)... but they lose all control over the image. In fact, most graphic artists do their work 'for hire' and don't have any say once they turn over the piece. Movie posters are a good example; the studio owns the image and can (and will) reproduce it as many times as they want for years to come regardless of the artist's interests.
Since your piece probably wasn't work for hire (higher pay, artist loses rights, you intend to make prints or whatever), the artist can probably make a case for limiting your use of the image.
If the artist is still being a jerk, you should email them and tell him/her that you're no longer interested in the piece, you've deleted all copies, and you want your money back. Once you take a stance and ask for a refund, they'll probably relent.
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As to ownership, intellectual property will always be different from real property, which is why copyright laws exist. Its harder to value, but easy to illegally profit from. You also don't get to move into your house without a contract. The builder is agreeing to give you ownership, just like an artist COULD, but that doesn't generally happen.
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Right. And that's what I was saying: As art director of a small magazine in Minnesota, we would only commission pieces where we had full rights, so this wasn't ever an issue. Photographs, on the other hand, were generally purchased either from a stock photo supplier or bought under First Rights contracts.
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That's understandable for a magazine. For commissions like these, I think you would be hard pressed to find an artist who won't at least hold onto their copyrights for commercial usage protection.
But like I said... CONTRACTS! Live by them, good for all parties.
I would think that commission/specs would cry out for "for hire" but yes, many artists do wish to be credited.
Which isn't the issue.
I think (not sure) that this artist's specifying HF as NOT an OK place to post? He doesn't want his work anywhere else but his gallery on HF. I've never seen him post a 'commissioned' version of his work - he always tweaks them to be different than the commissioned version. Rather odd, but... yeah.
I'd just write this one up as "Lesson Learned" and keep it in mind for next time. Personally, only two of the people I've commissioned has asked for any special measures to be taken with a gallery posting (watermarks, reducing DPI, etc), which I'm more than happy to comply with such requests.
I've even gone so far as to move the artist signature when I was asked to provide a cropped version for the City Scoop, so that it still appeared in the cropped version (it would have been cropped out otherwise.)
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
Doesn't mean I can't post what a bad experience I had with him on my DA/HF pages and enlighten others to just how he operates once the work is complete. Hell hath no fury.... >.<
-Virtue's First Naughty Girl-
For myself, I consider commissions to be the property of the client, and they can post wherever they want. I appreciate credit, but don't require it.
The only time I'd be uncomfortable with someone posting my work is if they were putting it somewhere inappropriate (like a nude piece on a kids' site or something), or if it contained content I wasn't comfortable with. Mind you, I wouldn't do a piece with content I was comfortable with, so that wouldn't happen. If someone's posting my stuff in a place that's not appropriate, then I'd be unhappy, but wouldn't let it reflect upon me.
Also, I'm terrified of a place called "Hentai Foundry".
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Also, I'm terrified of a place called "Hentai Foundry".
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Well, where do you think your cast iron hentais come from? Sheesh. 
My Deviant Art page link-link
CoH/V Fan Videos
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Also, I'm terrified of a place called "Hentai Foundry".
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Well, where do you think your cast iron hentais come from? Sheesh.
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Actually I go to Hentai-Mart. All forgein stuff but you can't beat their prices....
It's not so much him saying I can't post it on HF, but the fact that he told me what I can and cannot do with a piece of work I hired him to do. Now, I will admit, I am not going to post his work on sites that don't allow the content, but I will post it for others to see where it is appropriate. But I'll do so where I want to on my terms because I bought it. Am I wrong for getting upset over this and wanting it in my personal collection/gallery?
-Virtue's First Naughty Girl-
Well, yes and no. Art is weird. It's one product that you can buy and still no own. It's always seemed strange to me, because if you'd hire someone to paint in your house, you still own it, but if you hire someone to paint your character, you don't really own it.
It's probably best to ask ahead of time about usage rights so things don't get sideways. If you want all rights to the piece, I'd say so ahead of time in the commissioning process.
My Deviant Art page link-link
CoH/V Fan Videos
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It's not so much him saying I can't post it on HF, but the fact that he told me what I can and cannot do with a piece of work I hired him to do. Now, I will admit, I am not going to post his work on sites that don't allow the content, but I will post it for others to see where it is appropriate. But I'll do so where I want to on my terms because I bought it. Am I wrong for getting upset over this and wanting it in my personal collection/gallery?
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Always good to check the usage rights. Limiting use is one of the reasons commissions are so cheap on DA. I've noticed several aritist I've commissioned have two price tiers. One where you basically totally own it and the other more of a private use, not for profit type deal. This isn't the same guy who's awol on commissions is it? Just PM me the answer if you feel so inclined....
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It's not so much him saying I can't post it on HF, but the fact that he told me what I can and cannot do with a piece of work I hired him to do. Now, I will admit, I am not going to post his work on sites that don't allow the content, but I will post it for others to see where it is appropriate. But I'll do so where I want to on my terms because I bought it. Am I wrong for getting upset over this and wanting it in my personal collection/gallery?
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Always good to check the usage rights. Limiting use is one of the reasons commissions are so cheap on DA. I've noticed several aritist I've commissioned have two price tiers. One where you basically totally own it and the other more of a private use, not for profit type deal. This isn't the same guy who's awol on commissions is it? Just PM me the answer if you feel so inclined....
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No, it's not the folks at MMOART. Trust me, I'd let everyone know if it was. It was an artist named Dmitrys.
-Virtue's First Naughty Girl-
That's what you get for hiring these non-unionized, sweatshop artists instead of the fine people that can be found right here on the CoH/V forums.
(Seriously, dude sounds like a dillhole.)
Quick question, I use www.deviantart.com and when the need comes up hentai foundry. The question is, when I commission a piece, who has the last say in where it can or cannot be posted the commisioner or the artist? I only ask this because an artist is throwing a fit about me posting his work, that I paid for, in one of my commission galleries....