EmpireForgotten

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Maybe Castle got the idea for the pvp changes from the same select few "i got a pocket dev" buddies he entrusted the restructuring of dominators to.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....v=#Post13396958

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I think the changes to PvP stemmed from:
1. Survey that went out by ncsoft that had PvP on it?
2. Base raid play testing that 'wasn't fun' when the devs were testing some base raid changes (I would have suggested either bringing a Kinetic or asking whoever was playing the earth controller to stop putting quicksand in front of the raised door)
3. The extreme skill cap that PvP had. Lets face it, the players who practiced PvP were a whole lot better than the ones that didn't and thats not right! Now the training wheels are on and its like someone put saltpeter into the community's drink

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"I am scared of losing so I will make up excuses" - Strike

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Remember guys - its i14 PvP, You've both (we all have) already lost.

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Posi also believed that certain AT's were unbeatable in PvP, so it shows that he really doesn't have too much of an idea of what he's talking about.


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Wow, which build did he think was unbeatable?

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The only thing that I can kinda see as 'unbeatable' would be a double phase ice/em tank in i11 - but ive seen good rad/psis win there too

This thread isn't going to go anyplace. Take a step back and look at it from a business perspective:

1. Going back to i12 would mean that months of programming were wasted. And lets be honest, some things in i13/14 aren't that bad (selectable maps, extra arena options). The real question they business would need to ask is: Would people come back to the game if they reverted the PvP changes? I would doubt it at this point, to be honest.

2. Going back to i12 would alienate the new people that actually like i13/14 PvP for what it is. I can't fault someone for liking the new PvP even though I can't see how in the world they can. I can't understand why people like liver, but it doesn't negate from the fact that some people truly enjoy the food.

3. The most successful MMOs in the past have always looked forward and improve with a forward vision. Looking back leads to delays and un-innovative content.

4. Looking at the track record for the programmers of this game - if they make a change, they stick to it and weather the storm. i4/i5/i6 nerfs are a prime example of this. Adding loot to the game is an example. These changes are most likely not going to get pulled (Imagine having to revert in old code and then put the new content from i13/14 on it – it would take months to get right.)


The PvP I knew and loved in i12 is not here anymore. I may not like what's replaced it, but until we receive hard numbers from the data mining collected, no one can really say which version is more popular. For all I know, i14 PvP is more productive and generally more enjoyable.

There are several changes I would like to see in i15/16 in regards to PvP:

1. Find a way to make support viable again. I have listed several different ways I would changes Heal decay/Mez resistance vs. protection/DR to allow support players to have a role in the past. I would personally like to see:
-All CM/Clarity/ID/etc to give protection up to a certain point. This would be beneficial for people that want to run offensive toggles that are currently forced to retoggle every 10 seconds.
-Lessen heal decay/DR from inspirations. Since you can only have 20 at a time, if you are careless and pop them too soon, you will be eaten alive later in the match.
-Heal casters should have no heal decay. If heal decay is required to stay, I guess self heals could decay.
-All suppression to be buffable. I was never a fan of the blanket "No suppression" movement that swept these boards during the beta. Suppression has a place in PvP, but it should be overcome by teamwork or using a toon that has a 'no suppression power' (Elude)

2. Please add in more options to the arena PvP kiosks
-Larger than 8v8s (no SG) battles
-Turn on/off Mez protection/resistance
-Turn of/off Global resists

3. Arena kiosks in zones please (At the rings in sirens, at the globe of warburg, at city hall in RV - not sure in bloody bay) Exemp each user to their zone respective zone levels by default (fighting at level 30 doesn't exist at the moment).

4. If mission architect ever gets to the point that we can fully customize a map (instead of just using normal maps or reskinning maps). Allow PvP missions to be created. These would have to be scheduled obviously, but one team can attack, the other can defend and then switch. Similar to base raids, but allow for more dynamic goals:
-How bout a Counter Strike mission, where your team has to find and kill the other team before time runs out.
-Capture the flag would be fun
-First person to launch a warburg nuke wins (You can kinda to this now if you get people who you trust and want to have a good time)


5. And finally, please either add a zone that lets you have cross faction teams. I would change RV to this method instead of adding a zone, but that’s just me.


In closing (Yes this is another long winded post, but I like to hear myself talk in my head), If we - the players - want more changes to PvP, we should focus on what we specifically want changed. This almost sounds like a wasted exercise, because we already did this once. But, in the end, asking 'canIhasi12PvPnao?' is just going to get ignored. Asking for an i12 button for arena will probably get ignored. I honestly think the developers of this game are very creative people, and if we come up with some suggestions that might spur their creativity, we may see some nice enhancements.

The other thing we can do is continue [censored] about the current PvP setup - but that hasn't lead us anywhere.

I really wish they would take Badging out of PvP zones altogether.

The above is a prime example of how I would like all badgers in PvP zones to act, but that rarely happens. Usually, I will end up with said badger screaming in broadcast because he can't get his badge. I admire the people/the badgers who actually work for their PvP badges.

People say they invision PvPers as Pre-Pubescent bullies walking the playground. I can't entirely fault that assessment, because it does fit the bill more often than now.

I seriously invision badgers as screaming toddlers who need to be catered to because they can't survive any other way. Does that fit all badgers? Nope, no where near. But it does fit the screamers who can't get what they want.

(Disclaimer: This post was written at different times during the last half hour and I can't even remember what my point was. Bonus points for whoever can figure it out)


TL/DR version: People who badge should badge like AlienOne. People who whine should accept the fact that there may be some badges they never will get.

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I put it in the MoTD. Guildportal has been so laggy I can barely post. Every Thursday at 9 we're either matching or practicing.

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Lolz i don't think I have even patched i14 yet.

But I will try to make it this thursday (I usually don't play thursdays)

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Taking a break from all that Friday-Wednesday play?

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Uh...yeah! (No I usually go into work early on Friday so I can leave early - so I am usually in bed by 9:00)

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I put it in the MoTD. Guildportal has been so laggy I can barely post. Every Thursday at 9 we're either matching or practicing.

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Lolz i don't think I have even patched i14 yet.

But I will try to make it this thursday (I usually don't play thursdays)

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Melee is great on small teams or zone. Then again it always was.

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I would also clarify:

Melee is great when there is no support around. Since there is virtually no support in i13, melee is really nice.

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Missed you at practice Emp. YOu should log into the game and get a Warshade PL'd or something.

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When was practice scheduled? I didn't notice it on the dUmb boards and I didn't notice it here.

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pve is relative easy in most cases and gives people illusion of being good

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and sadly it 's the same in pvp for a lot (too much in fact) of build that "pWnZ" in pvp.


i personnally don't think that pvp require more skills than PvE.
it's been a long time since PvP just ignore the role each AT is supposed to fufill
damage, damage, damage oh and sometimes +damage buff and it's all

bring back PvP under normal PvE rules (and by that i'm not talking about pré i13 pvp) give back each AT one, and only one speciality (lol tanks that deals brute damage level, lol everyone being able to mezz, lol defender/controller asking for more damage) and maybe the skill of PvP'er will be what makes the difference.

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Do you seriously think PvE skill and PvP skill are equal?
Two scenarios:
PvE - 3 blasters, 2 sonics, 2 empaths, 1 kinetic (Standard i11 Jump team). Team is doing level 50 missions on invinc. Blasters are able to hold aggro because of their emense damage, thereby keeping the 2 empaths from taking any damage. One empath could go AFK if they wanted to, because there is no fear of getting killed.
PvP - 3 blasters, 2 sonics, 2 empaths, 1 kinetic. No matter how much you try, its really hard to get real people to herd up into a corner like the computer AI will. It is also really hard to force a person to target the guy doing the damage when he is unkillable due to his 2 pocket healers.

Short answer: PvP takes x10 as much skill because you have a person who can do actual problem solving on the other side of the screen. If you can't see that - Then I feel sorry for you.

Truely skilled players will be able to take any AT/build and beat someone who is playing a FOTM but isn't very good. You Could easily tell the skill level of the team/person by how well they played whatever character they happened to be on.


I agree that PvP needs to revert to PvE rules and, im sorry, but prei13 is just that. Each AT had their own role pre i13. In larger team formats, certain ATs became less viable - but not unuseable and certain not gimp.

Old PvP - Very dynamic team setups with lots of counters for each
New PvP - If everyone brings random ATs/powers, you might have a balanced fight. OR, you can bring the 4 or 5 viable sets and destory the other team that doesn't have them.

Old PvP had its flaws, but they were minor.

Ill put as much effort into my reply as the OP did with his suggestion:

this idea is bad
/close thread

This is the second OP'd epic Jack has suggested...

Stick to your primary/secondary suggestions Jack, they are actually pretty good. But your epic suggestions fail hardcore.


Let me ask you something: If this epic would be put in, why would anyone take a different epic?

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The vast majority of "good PvPers" who still play this game are total [censored], and would abuse the power to kick players from zones, regardless of consequences.

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Im far from good, but yeah, you don't want to give anyone the power to kick/timeout people in zones. I am an [censored]

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Trash talk isn't hard to deal with. You can either ignore trash talk completely, verbally abuse the trash talker, or simply start RPing (that one works the best).

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RPing is so awesome to use when you PvP

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Argue that some trash talk is "too abusive" all you want. The fact is that all trash talk is typed into the same chat box of the same game, and only carries as much potency as the reader allows it to.

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And finally...I totally agree. There are several ingame means to stop trash talking if you hate it so. You can A) turn off faction chat (doesn't always work in warburg, but can be effective). B) /ignore the person who is irritating you. C) Make a PvP tab that only has team/SG chat on it and then turn this tab on when you are in a zone. That way, you can see the chat that should matter to you.

Imposing rules in a zone is retarded and anyone who thinks the opposite is an idiot.

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Offical apology for last night

I'll be posting my weekly apologies here to the people that I irritate. This one is for last nights RV action...Would it surprise anyone that in the old PvP, I would never have acted that way?

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Epic lulz, but one nitpick-

i.e. is latin for "this is" IE is Internet Explorer.

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No, I meant internet explorer, not "that is" duh!

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I see no rule in place that states if both teams agree, the match can be played entirely by RPing i12 combat logs in local chat of bar outside the arena area. The team that has the best RP is the winner.

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Thats unfair, we have Silit

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Not even close. Our SG has RPd that we are retarded and bad a PvP since the begining...<.<


What?

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You guys are retarded and bad; you pretend to be RPing as retarded and bad so people will think that you are just messing around, and aren't really retarded and bad. However, you are either so retarded and bad, or just so terrible at RPing (both) that your act fools no one. Everyone knows that you are retarded and bad.

If you still think that you are a good RPer ask yourself this question:

Am I a member of the Virtuous Vanguard?

Alas, the answer is no. The Virtuous Vanguard is a collection of the best RPers in the game, and yet, we have not one member from your SG. Infact, by representation of members in the Virtuous Vanguard, both 10MoP and Renegades are better RP SGs than yours.

If you would like to try out for the Virtuous Vanguard, we practice in RV on freedom; feel free to drop by.

Your's Truely,
Silit, Captain of the Grand Fleet

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that's it! I challenge you to an RP walkoff. Who wants to RP as david bowie?

Offical apology for last night

I'll be posting my weekly apologies here to the people that I irritate. This one is for last nights RV action...Would it surprise anyone that in the old PvP, I would never have acted that way?

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I like that response.

Here's the form I send out

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Ill need to add that to my collection

I've also been known to PM this to people

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I see no rule in place that states if both teams agree, the match can be played entirely by RPing i12 combat logs in local chat of bar outside the arena area. The team that has the best RP is the winner.

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Thats unfair, we have Silit

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Not even close. Our SG has RPd that we are retarded and bad a PvP since the begining...<.<


What?

To the people who hate the trash talk:

Why do you care enough to post in the forums of a video game about how much you hate it when people trash talk you in PvP of a video game?

To the people that trash talk:

Why do you waste your time typing in broadcast chat of a video game about how much better you are at playing a video game than the person you just beat?


Serious questions, no snark is implied.

FAQ about my question:
Q: Empire, do you trash talk?
A:I only ever stop to type something in broadcast if A)Someone complains about what ATs are being played B) someone making excuses for why they just got beat. Item A irritates me the most though.
Q: You are making a post on a video game forum complaining/asking why people complain about something on a video game forum. Why does that not make sense?
A: See SG. Membership entitles me to three nonsense/hypocritcal posts per month.
Q: You just pissed me off with your trash talk empire, I may just insult your mother!
A: If you are upset by my trash talking, you will receive Written Response similar to this one within 3 days*
Q: Empire, You're really not funny
A: Would you like to hear a joke then? Knock Knock (Whose there?) Go [censored] yourself



*weekends, holidays, and weekdays that end in Y are exempt

I see no rule in place that states if both teams agree, the match can be played entirely by RPing i12 combat logs in local chat of bar outside the arena area. The team that has the best RP is the winner.

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Subject change- PvP practice Monday night. IF enough are ready on test we'll run an internal. Otherwise we'll just abuse people in Infinity zones/maybe hit the arena.

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Most likely won't be there, but have Well call me if you need me.

You also must remember that 'teh new' PvP doesn't require practice, it goes against the system design. People who practice will probably lose more.

Quick question though: Since the new PvP is the complete polar opposite of the old PvP AND since we went out of our way to not talk smack or get involved in drama in the old PvP, Should I start being more of a dick in the new PvP?

You should add Mac - he applied and I let him into the member section, but I don't think he knows that yet <.<


It should also be noted that I will be RPing as if this is i12 PvP and anyone who makes fun of me automatically forfeits

To answer your question from earlier slax, I am guessing number 1...and only because of the assumptions I am making about certain bungie jumping locations

I RP that i12 PvP still exists. Its hard when no one will RP with me though

Halo wars is fun. I am working on getting ranked in the top 1000 out of the 150000 that have played it so far. Im about 4000 at the moment.

We need to schedule a night when we can all play CoH. I usually sign on and see no one I know so I sign off to go play halo wars with UH.