Electric-Knight

Indeed A nice little tidbit.
I am curious... what is the difference between morality missions and "tip" missions? Perhaps I am forgetting, but I don't recall this term being used before... It seems like she's using it as something different than "morality" missions, but I'm wondering if that is reading too much into it.

It's even more confusing for those of us who come from the past and have traveled, and settled in, far into the future, but are visiting in the here and now.

WRONG!!!

He animates away TF bugs!!
You infernal noob!!

Hmmm...





Amazing Ape charges in to wish YOU [Positron] a HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!

(No feather boa and tiara, but... this one was free!)

But your birthday wish was to be able to tell us all, right right?
Wouldn't have anything to do with the "Incarnate" system would it?

I was glad to have met you at the Boston Meet and Greet. I already felt like the game was in great hands, but meeting you guys and chatting made it even more clear.
Hope you have a great time.

There is another unique aspect to Mystic Fortune that deserves to be included in this.

It is a power cast on an ally that does not require an AT choice, a Power Set choice nor an actual Power Slot selection.

It not only is unique in its duration and random nature (And an exception as a power that may grant a debuff unto an ally), but it also requires zero in-game choice/payment.

This also has the result of making the power rather rampant.
Among the efficiency and number-based preference of playstyles, it is simply a no-brainer of "why not?", as opposed to something that is earned through a player's specific choices for that character.
A "free" power to be cast on allies.

Mystic Fortune is, indeed, an exception, if not utterly unique.

See now, comments like that make me wonder if you're even reading the things I type.

It is a bit difficult (For lack of a better term) to care to engage you in conversation if you are reading my words as simply aggressive advocacy.

I don't come to these forums to convince people of things. I come here for fun.
The topic of Mystic Fortune going on and on has not been particularly fun, but I have respectfully been willing to engage you in conversation/discussion.

Also... I now understand what you put to me beforehand...
What would change my opinion?

My opinion being that these differing preferences deserve the options to make both sides happy and I would not want to see the option to decline removed and I am for an auto accept/decline option for those who wish to ditch the prompt.

In order to convince me that my stance is wrong, I would have to believe that it was unhealthy for the game overall. That including this option to remove the prompt for those that disllike the prompt (As that is how it exists now and always has, but for a brief bit following an exploit fix) and/or that keeping an option to decline the power would lead to negative repercussions within the game and the community.

(My apologies for not understanding the question beforehand!)

You're assuming that the arguments made are not logical and I am asserting that they are.
The main point here being that I am not assuming that you have been given grand authority to change what the developers have done (Include an option to decline Mystic Fortune). Therefore, while you may be conducting some sort of test/evaluation/challenge for others to convince you... I can only take that so far and I may be conducting my own practice myself. This Mystic Fortune topic has been an annoying one, in my book.
I had an option I was very pleased with. It was taken away due to an exploit. I voiced my concern with one post in beta. I voiced my feedback with one post when it went live.
Then, later on, I ended up replying in discussions that others had started. Keeping it civil and reasonable, while being sent lots of angry and insulting messages from people who simply hated the prompt and didn't care about other people's opinions/preferences.

With all the talk of people "whining" about no prompt... clearly, more has been made of this after the prompt was announced to be put back in.
If I may, let me ask you a very serious question that I thought you may know the answer to...
Why was there a prompt included with Mystic Fortune in the first place? If you do not know directly, why do you think they included a prompt?
This may actually help me understand your own opinion better (And I am simply curious, to boot).

I am not entirely sure I am following you, but perhaps this actually answers that...

It is not necessarily that it is "heinous", but it is unique and an exception.
Indeed, this seems to have been the main point of contention between us. It is clearly an exception and every time anyone, in the past, suggested that "If this has an option, all powers should" I reminded people that this power is wholly different than others (Based on duration and sticktoitiveness alone, plus the random nature of the power's results).


Bottom line, this is clearly an issue that has opposing personal preferences.
Removing the ability to decline that power leaves one side completely out in the cold.
The theory that this option would lead to an unhealthy sense of entitlement that would bleed over to other aspects of the game does not appear to be true. It existed with an option for all this time and only very briefly without. Now people are clamoring for it to be taken back out again and you are claiming that having an option is bad for the overall life of the game.

The option is not the problem.
The problems are:
1) Some people want to decline the power (Due to several reasons, the most notable is the vast difference in its duration as compared to any other player cast buff... and only a very select few NPC debuffs [what, just three examples?]. Two of which are story driven and in-game canon-related and the others have zero visual effects and can be deleted at the player's choosing).
2) Some people despise having a prompt window.

Both of those are separate issues, yet related.
Both of them are "problems", because both of them have opposing opinions across the playerbase.

The option to decline has been there since April 14th 2009.
The option to delete the Mayhem/Safeguard buffs has been there longer than I know.

Neither have caused a nasty trend towards lack of player created repercussions or interactions.
Actually, I am not sure what, exactly, you think is the real result of the problem you are asking if anyone can convince you does not exist.

Part of this nearly feels like being asked to prove that a particular deity does not exist.

My solution to the only remaining problem is to give people the option to avoid the prompt.
The option to accept and decline the power is already in place and working fine (As it has since it was released). The only remaining problem is some people's preference for no-prompts, which, I can respect.

Honestly, we could make the case that people refusing to accept a simple prompt that is part of a player-to-player interaction is out of line in the face of continuing a multi-player video game community.
I'm not saying that facetiously, I honestly think that player interactions, such as trades, teleportations, team/SG/coallition/friend invites and unrelenting-twenty-minute random player-cast buffs deserve a UI element of some sort in order to handle the interaction.

So, I hope that you find some logic within this post.
Thanks for reading!

The thing that strikes me most is... If you have not been convinced by what has been said and explored, before you even started this line of questioning, and if you have taken all of that into account and now stand on the ground that allowing an option to decline the results of the Mystic Fortune Power (and that power only) somehow leads to a landslide of negative community repercussions and player expectations, then I don't know what anyone could say to you, because logic would not seem to be a sufficient tool to lead you out of your opinion.

To me, it seems to be a ridiculous basis to start from.

You say that you would remove the rooting aspect of the power's application...
I could ask why the repercussions of the rooting effect are too much to ask for a payer to have to deal with from the results of interacting with another player.

I believe that people too greatly remove themselves from the aspect of the game is make believe... In that, the powers are supposed to be representing some form of a virtual reality. How is it inappropriate for 1) someone to have to ask to read their fortune and 2) for the recipient to have to "Stand still for a moment... I hope this works out well...".

But no... That's too much to ask, because some players just want to keep racking up the points/xp/Inf/prestige or just simply knocking down enemies as fast as can be.

So... all along, the thing that you keep coming back to is that this playstyle deserves full attention and the style that disagrees with your thoughts on what should and shouldn't be optional, does not.

By "meaningless" downside, "if it exists", you're referring to the supposed inconvenience of the prompt?

Some time between posting that and when getting out of the house today, I realized that I should have said, "As a game designer, how long am I willing to let other players potentially stick someone with something that they're not happy about?"

The answer to how long I'd be willing to let the game/NPCs/Special Results do it, as opposed to other players, is different.

I have encountered many people who would have loved to have been able to get rid of the Vahzilok's Disease. That struck me as odd, because I had encountered that with my main hero and thought it was great. Then, when people explained that they were robots and such, I realized how tough it is to do awesome things with diversity. Sometimes you have to just let it go and have some people not as happy as others (Whether this particular case is one, is a matter of opinion, of course).


Personally, I think the Vahzilok's Disease arc is a great experience and shows players, things can happen to you (Although, besides the Hamidon Lightning thing... what else is there?). Most of the people who may have been bothered by their character concept not matching the disease thing likely still saw that it was a cool idea... if it fit better with their concept... and know it was a neat attempt (And the developers are somewhat limited in how wide a gap they can cover).

I don't think that a player cast power with a relatively short recharge that can be acquired for $10 which included some seriously popular clothing items and can be used by any AT and character on the account really compares to the unique scenario of the Vahzilok story arc.

Just my thoughts.

I agree with the importance of factoring what should and should not be in the player's control and the careful balancing act that you speak of.

From this case, I have found that I reconcile it by the duration and ability to avoid/lose the effect.

I've, personally, never ever been one to have any issue with player buffs and such (No knocking anyone for their own tastes though).
They last 4 minutes maximum.

The old Mayhem/Safeguard buffs last for hours of in-gametime. The Developers removed the visual effects that they used to have... and you could always delete them yourself.

Mystic Fortune lasts for 20 minutes of in-game time. A player cannot avoid it by not doing Safeguard/Mayhem missions... but can by declining the option to be given the buff. It cannot be deleted (And shouldn't be, due to its random nature). It also cannot be lost by defeat (Intentional or otherwise).

So, my thought on when the player should or shouldn't have the option is (In this case) based on how long it lasts.

Basically... As a game designer, how long am I willing to potentially stick someone with something that they're not happy about?

(As an aside):
Part of this (And I say only "part", because this whole topic has opened my eyes to players that do not wish to have any numerical advantage granted from other players for their extreme solo play... Whether this is something the game cares to support/nurture or not, it is not my place to dismiss it)... Anyway, part of this can be solved with Power Customization (of sorts). Some games have options for hiding armors and/or other items/effects that work in your favor, but may not be to your visual liking.

Clientside options for some of the visuals (Leadership Pool, Inspirations, all those CoH standard, floating accuracy, damage, defense, etc) to be hidden for that player (And that player only) wouldn't be out of line within CoH, with its great grasp of personal appearance customization.

HAHA
Yeah, I feared people might think I was serious, but oh well.
I was searching for pics of the fleshy-headed mutant and stumbled on the video. It makes me laugh so much, I had to share it (But I just love the McKenzie Brothers). Not many people can stand up to Rick Moranis's amazing ability to be a complete doof! Ghostbusters is case-in-point!

I just figured there might be other fans of them here...
And/or it might turn some people on to them (Or off, as the case may be, heehee).


It does! I'd never seen any of that (Really didn't look into that game much. Not as much as I thought anyway, hehe).

Hmm... that's kind of odd. I wasn't aware that the prestige rewards were affected separately and differently than the xp rewards.

Is that a change from what you found before?

Sorry about missing your post before I replied. My "good news" comment was based on Heraclea saying it seemed like some improvements were made to the reductions for non-combat NPCs.

Edit: Oh, and thanks. Yeah, I know about the initial change and the reasons for and all. I can see how my post, following yours, made it seem like I was asking about the initial changes in general, as opposed to the possible recent changes Heraclea was mentioning! (Hope that made sense)

Decorum is correct. The pack is on the Test Server as we speak (Still pending the two new tails and a sword).

The main announcement about it is here.
A lot more talk about it is in the Testing Costume Feedback, here.


So, can I, like, have a free beer for that, eh?