Dragonkat
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Posts
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Quote:My mistake on the sleeps so thanks for the correction on that one, did forget the damage factor, but still having an extra sleep wouldn't hurt even if the recharge is up there.Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
1) Both flash freeze and Sirens song deal damage so you cannot stack Sleep with them.
2)Power boost does not affect Hoarfrost as Hoarfrost has a damage resist component.
3) Frozen Armor has a damage resist component, therefore PB doesnt affect it.
You should be using Howl before Shockwave for the -resist. Shockwave doesnt have -resist. Although I wouldn't really reccomend using Shockwave in the first place. Yes, you can make shockwave's KB negligible, however that can be situational and/or takes too long to set up. Shockwave also doesn't provide -resist as said before, youre better just going with Howl and calling it a day. Especially for a newer player, I wouldn't reccomend having to juggle knockback effectiveness techniques while still learning how to play the game itself.
as for #2 and #3 I have an old blaster with force mastery, and I can tell you there's just from general observation a HUGE difference between Personal force field with and without power boost defense wise, and as that's a power with a damage resist too I'm going to call jury still out on those last points Unless i see a specific dev or player testing post on it.
As for the opinion on shockwave, couldn't disagree more. It still packs defiance bonus on par with howl. So if you fired howl first then shockwave, you're actually getting less damage out of the deal -res or no. And as I said above you can game the coh engine and how it treats targets with the simple press of two keys one after the other, it aint rocket science.
As for situational and long set up (Two of my least favorite excuses)
Solo: Hit shockwave, insta mitigation, no tank to complain, blaster goes to town. And ut's the only mitigation a sonic/em is gong to have till 10 levels later at siren's song, and 10 more for screech. Now if he wanted the energy melee blaps I might agree more with the opinion. But if you're going pure ranged why wouldn't you want one of the very few aoe knockbacks blasters get? And a knockback that's actually easy to control the direction of, unlike the scatter and more random chance for it to actually happen on a power like M30 grenade.
Team: If you want to talk situational powers shockwave is a whole heck of a lot more useful in a team then an aoe sleep would be. Then you've got the fact any troller with a root nullifies the knockback anyway, a point against shockwave I'll admit given the low damage, but still worth it for the defiance boost. And given a panic situation great for knocking mobs off other squishies. Or keeping ones the troller missed out of the game that much longer, or on the other side of caltrops/tar patch/any rain power. Not to mention the Mag is high enough to knock down bosses as a troller can double stack holds. Course if you're on a hold heavy team also a moot point, but just saying. As for AoE debuffs like darkest night or rad powers, it's a simple request to ask a player to watch the knockbacks in those instances, again not rocket science.
And be honest, how long does it really take to point yourself at a wall before you hit a KB power? All of two seconds when it might actually matter or there's not a wall right there anyway? That and why not learn at the start rather then later? After all not like waiting is going to change the opinion of people who have an irrational and if you ask me stupid hate of all things knockback. Jumping in the deep end and learning by doing I say, it's the only way to blast. -
Though I -really-really-really! disagree with not taking the melee hits in energy I can respect the choice. But don't be fooled into thinking range = defense. It's anything but when you're dealing with mobs like trolls or warwolves. Hurl bolder hits like a train from a long ways off. That and some of the late game groups like nemesis are virtually all ranged attack. Circle of thorns in general will still pose an issue too, the ghosts most of all. Freakshow stunners, all of Malta. Tsoo ancestor spirits will still fly right up to smack you while the ink men below mez away, and the rikti...well they just suck pure and simple =p
Short version, hover is not a free pass to blast with impunity, treat it as such in the wrong instances and it's a recipe for a hospital visit. Works great in the hollows, not as well in the late game. But then again my blaster play style involves targeting a boss, and firing off as many attacks as possible including melee at point blank range, so your mileage and play style may vary.
That said if i was gonna build a flying sonic energy here's a quick throw together. The reason behind cold is for the extra aoe sleep to stack on bosses along with a backup plan too. That and extra HP from hoarfrost, and a second self heal with hibernate never hurts. Also power boost will juke up the heals and also buff frozen armors defense bonus for a few good seconds of extra def. The extra sleep and stun duration at that point is icing on the cake. The slotting is just generic IO's obtained at 25 and on up, sets are a whole nother can of worms.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Technology Blaster
Primary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Secondary Power Set: Energy Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Cold Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shriek -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(3), Dmg-I(3), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(5), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 1: Power Thrust -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Scream -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(7), Dmg-I(9), Dmg-I(9), Dmg-I(11), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 4: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 6: Hover -- Flight-I(A)
Level 8: Howl -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(15), Dmg-I(15), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(17), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 10: Shockwave -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(21), RechRdx-I(21)
Level 12: Shout -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(23), Dmg-I(23), Dmg-I(25), Dmg-I(25), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 16: Amplify -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 18: Sirens Song -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(29), Sleep-I(31), Sleep-I(31), Sleep-I(31)
Level 20: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 22: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(33), Heal-I(33)
Level 24: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(33), EndMod-I(34)
Level 26: Screech -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(34), Dsrnt-I(34), Dsrnt-I(36), Dsrnt-I(36)
Level 28: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 32: Dreadful Wail -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(37), Dmg-I(37), Dmg-I(39), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 35: Boost Range -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 38: Total Focus -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(42), Dmg-I(42), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(43), Dsrnt-I(43)
Level 41: Flash Freeze -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(45), Sleep-I(45), Sleep-I(45), Sleep-I(46)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(46), DefBuff-I(46), DefBuff-I(48)
Level 47: Hoarfrost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Hibernate -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(50), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 4: Ninja Run
Also ignore any negative remarks about knockback in general and shockwave in particular. KB whiners are for those who don't realize walls exist, worry about their precious tank herd getting disrupted, or don't realize that while the entire group is now sitting on it's butt (and not shooting back) you've got free reign to pump the rest of your attack chain into them while they're getting up. Two fun tips most don't ever realize either.
#1 If you are hovering directly above you'll pretty much knock mobs straight into the ground, which mitigates the "evil" knockback anyway.
#2 If you queue up a cone like howl (I.E. have it readied as shockwave's animation goes off) The game engine still treats all those mobs now flying back as if they're still in the range of the second cone, and you'll peg them before they even can think of getting back up. You can see the exact same mechanic in action if you whack something with power thrust and have a melee attack lined up after. Be quick enough on the draw and something like energy punch still connects.
Main reason I'd really say put the blaster on the ground though and take leaping pool (for combat jump and acrobatics status resists) is so you can put energy melee hits to good use with sonic's -res debuffs on top of blaster defiance bonuses. That (Don't know if you read or saw it) being the fact every attack a blaster pulls adding to his damage for a short time. Makes sonic that much more lethal in a way.
Either way don't worry too much over power picks and perfection for a first time blaster, just have fun with it, enjoy the numbers and the boom, and good choice in picking the best class to learn coh with in my heavily biased opinion. Hehe if you can play a "Debt magnet" right, you're ready for anything.
Welcome to the game too, hope you love it. -
Rad/fire
yes yes a thousand times YES!
I have one of these around 27, and the aoe blapping style is pure devastation. If you have a tank or a brute to herd mobs for you, it's downright beautiful to see all the orange numbers fly. So suicidal with it I'm actually gonna try to stack even blazing aura, hot feet, and burn on top of the aoe's in /fire and the two in rad. You can count nuetron bomb if mobs bunch around you after all.
By far it's the most reckless blaster I've ever played too, so yeah watch your timing, but when you can cut loose boy can you ever. So if you want to stay away from eng or fire give this combo a try. -
Wrote these down as I came across them, so take the stream of consciousness as you will.
Biggest problem with this is the same problem I have with set builds in general, you gotta plan for effectiveness before you have the sets, unless you have a few hundered million for twinking.
That and you have a whole 2 real attacks till level 10, one a low damage cone. That will not hack it, even with build up. Getting to bone smasher will be a chore. Getting to 26 with a pool attack, a blap and a couple AR attacks when you could be taking FT at 18 instead of 26 will be an ever bigger grind, power reordering is definitly in order. And stamina does you little good if you have no attacks to drain your blue bar.
Speaking of, skip conserve power, not needed, better uses for the slot.
dump fighting, it's bonuses for blasters just aren;t worth it, even with IO sets in it, it's a waste of slots for other powers too. Such as only 4 slots in bone smasher, that's a crime for one of the biggest melee attacks blasters get.
You can get the same knockback resist plus immob and hold if fighting pool is replaced with leaping one as well. Not to mention a real travel power.
This lets you put in energy punch also, which is leaps and bounds above boxing.
You need mitigation as a blaster, either stun or beanbag and beanbag is by far the better one, trust me the first time you run into fungoids or sappers you'll be glad you took it.
Power boost is a good choice if you have a stun like beanbag and TF, it'll give you a much longer duration even unslotted. If you have a def armor or PFF, or medicine pool powers like aid self it's a much better pick in that regard too.
Keep ignite for teams, it's a beast if trollers have mobs locked down, same for AV fights as I'm fairly (90%) certain they won't run from it.
boost range, 3 slots, needs more recharge.
Bonfire? Not meshing with blaps, melt armor is almost overkill I want to say as nothing much can live past build up/boost range/FT/FA combo. But could be fun with bosses and total focus, so hey go for it. Though I'd still say dump bonfire for another hold, and if you're gonna be a blaster take ROTF for the BOOM!
Here's my old AR/EM build, though this was pre IO's when I did it, you might want to tweak the slotting, where sets would fit I added a couple in, generic IO's otherwise.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Assault Rifle
Secondary Power Set: Energy Manipulation
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Force Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Slug -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(3), Dmg-I(3), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(5), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 1: Power Thrust -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Energy Punch -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(7), Dmg-I(9), Dmg-I(9), Dmg-I(11), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 4: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Beanbag -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(15), Dsrnt-I(15), Dsrnt-I(17), Dsrnt-I(17), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 10: Bone Smasher -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(19), Dmg-I(19), Dmg-I(21), Dmg-I(21), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 12: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(43), Heal-I(46)
Level 18: Flamethrower -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(23), Dmg-I(25), Dmg-I(25), Dmg-I(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 20: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(29), Efficacy-EndMod(29), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(43), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(43), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 24: Stimulant -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Ignite -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(31), Dmg-I(31), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 28: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 30: Aid Self -- IntRdx-I(A), IntRdx-I(34), IntRdx-I(34), Heal-I(36), Heal-I(36), Heal-I(36)
Level 32: Full Auto -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(37), Dmg-I(37), Dmg-I(37), Dmg-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 35: Boost Range -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 38: Total Focus -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(40), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(42), Dmg-I(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 41: Personal Force Field -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(45), ResDam-I(45), ResDam-I(45)
Level 47: Force of Nature -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48), ResDam-I(48), ResDam-I(50), ResDam-I(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 4: Ninja Run -
Idea for a MA set, if ripping off powers from others of course, and trying to work along the same trends of current blaster secondary sets. That and things we already have animations for. Though obviously the powers would need balancing for blasters.
1: Axe Kick - immob and -attack speed
2: flash bomb - Think a PBAoE flash arrow basically
4: focus chi - AKA build up
10: Cobra Strike - heavy melee damage with either a 100% stun still, or maybe a stun chance on par with bone smasher.
16: Poison bomb - ranged aoe version of poison gas trap. Dot damage attack with a debuff. But which to attach if any? I was thinking -res myself.
20: Exploding Shuriken - name says it all
28: Ninja stealth - Ninja version of cloaking device, thinking also a small run or jump speed bonus, like the ninja run prestige power.
35: Ninja reflexes - Borrowing from devices again, was thinking either click buff or toggle to give +hit, and/or maybe a small (5-10%?) +attack speed?
38: Crane Kick - Think total focus damage in a big way and 100% boss level knockback (Hey it is a level 38 power =p)
38 alternate: Blinding powder - Give it a wider 60 degree cone, but just the confuse effect or perhaps a good sized -hit? Would -perception be overkill too?
Other thoughts that came to mind, though not sure where you'd put them level wise, or if we're going into OP territory for blasters.
Shuriken volley - cone aoe attack ninja style.
Dragon Tail - after all /fire has enough PBAoe, why not add this?
Storm kick - just to balance a little melee attack with a big one like other manip sets, but i'd also just as soon see something slightly different.
Poison arrow - Basically a ranged stun or hold attack.
Think it'd be workable? -
*Re-reads C&E's comment*
Oh good lord, you my friend win the thread, i'd add that to my sig if airhammer hadn't already called dibs on it.
One other thought along that tangent I'd like to add too, specifically @thinkso as I gave him the answer he wanted, and wouldn't mind a straight one back in return for once. (Notes that I did recieve a bunch of insults again, but despite all that eye bleeding not one question asked in that post got a response) But anyone's free to answer.
I think we can all agree "fun" isn't a valid argument for an OP power combo, due to balance issues. But... and it's one thing i also don't understand about those putting down blasters.
How does us having fun with what you think to be an underpowered AT or combo, somehow impact your gameplay experience to the point where we need threads like this about it?
Heck if anything I think /EM is still a touch overpowered, i mean total focus was a mag 4 stun till the nerf, and even now it's still a beast of a power. Power boost buffs a lot more things then people give it credit for, boost range lets you be flat out mean. Regardless of that though what's the big deal about us enjoying our blasters the way we see fit? -
Just a side note I only read the last page, so if you're still trolling AF I might go waste some time finding it after work, thinkso asks a better question anyway I'm sure.
But also to quote the joker, why so serious bats?
That's one thing I don't get guys, you seem really driven to be "Right" (Both sides) and seem to be taking this whole thing way too seriously, you do realize most of my posts don't because I just find most of this thread silly? Well that and I never take myself very seriously either, hehe not in it to be right, mostly just in it for the lulz, and to try and get people to think outside their lil min maxed boxes once in awhile.
Anyway.
Quote:However, if it is inappropriate to use "fun" as the foundation of an argument to support something that is overpowered, what honestly leads you to think that the same argument will hold up when something is underpowered?
If you can answer that I think I'll understand what you guys are saying better. If you can answer that then I'll likely agree with what you have been saying this whole time.
Easy answer.
Fun doesn't work for overpowered builds because of power creep and fotm syndrome, if we try to balance around obvious overpowered ones or watch everyone take the old overpowered smoke grenade, you throw the game out of whack. Ask regen scrappers. Or the time when fire/kin was farmer of the month along with flavor of the month =p
On the other hand....
Can blasters, any build solo and or team perform at base line 0/x1 content? With zero inability to finish missions? (Unlike pre overpower trollers in certain builds that couldn't without taking hours) Yes, yes we can.
And that's the end of it, you can harp about numbers and force multipliers and chart to the heavens all you want, but blasters can play through content just fine, are viable on teams as much as any other AT (more so in my personal opinion) and a whole lot better then some of the people in this thread would believe they can, it's kinda funny watching the argument bounce around between first scrappers, then MM, then defender, but eh whatever. What's next I wonder, maybe your grandma makes better cookies then my blaster? I mean come on...
See this is the part where we hit pointless, you see numbers and think blasters are broken, or underpowered or whatever. Your take on them, you're allowed. It's a scientific approach, fair enough.
And again you're in the wrong place with the wrong argument. If you honestly think blasters are this terrible, why are you not putting your reasoning out there to the devs? If blasters are this bad have you offered one suggestion in any of those number laden posts to actually improve them in a balanced manner? I have yet to see it.
And again I still don't give a care about that, I treat blasting as well, call it art, philosophy, style, zen, whatever hehe. The numbers behind the build are meaningless compared to what the build does in game, and does it with style. And I haven't found a blaster build yet I'd call underpowered to the point of being unplayable.
If you want to be call being able to hit boost range + build up, followed by piercing shot hitting a trio of even cons, followed by pistol (1 dead) dual wield (2 dead) and exec shot (3 dead) all before they may get even one attack off underpowered, by all means do so, i don't think I have enough damage yet, after all hail of bullets, bone smasher and energy punch are still charged [/sarcasm]
Now if you want to talk specific powers (time bomb) Sure I'll agree there's a couple that could use some love.
But the AT as a whole? if you think blasters are as bad off as your numbers would make them to believe, well I want some of what you're smoking. You're entire premise is based on the false assumption of blasters are underpowered, which i and others just happen to disagree with, sorry if it bursts your bubble that we can't be bothered to come up with a chart of our own, some of us are busy playing the actual game.
So why a blaster?
Cause it's fun!
-
God this thread is like a glorious train wreck of trolling, the corpses of poor discarded spreadsheets everywhere! Masterminds next to be lowered into the pit of sweet numbery doom! Doooom! And who is going to save Aura's baby from being abducted and shipped off to the CoX sanitarium for the mathematically insane, raised to be a number drone for all eternity!
Stay tuned for the next riviting episode of why a blaster!
*cough* ahem, that is, I guess I can stop having too much fun with my blasters again for a sec. *Notes a bit more trolling* Seriously though AF what is it about people having fun that gets your panties in such a knot? I think I'll those reds you keep popping every minute on your brute are going right to your head.
And in an attempt to interject a little dose of reality into the numbers again. here's a little question for everyone in general. But Thinkso and AF in particular. Oh and were you really so desperate to be "right" (Whatever constitutes that in this train wreck) That you missed that "Real world" factors were that lovely little list above of all the things that can happen on a team in a the "real fake world" Just curious.
Annnnyway....
Short of a planned supergroup event, or a time when defenders arrange all teams through the forums like the perfect storm parties. When was the last time you were actually on a PuG that had more then 4 defenders in it? Trollers and corrs not counting if we want to use thinkso's lil hypothetical 40 vs 100. Also there's a lil flaw in the fact you assume every def has a -res power. Most defs set have at least 1 yes, but still a flaw in the numbers vs "Real world" experiences in PuG'ing
When was the last time you met a PuG or TF leader that says "Hey you know what'd be great, all defenders, who needs that damage a blaster brings!" Last time I checked most (including myself) Prefer a good AT mix to bring everyone's abilities to the plate, or just 8 warm bodies to go thrash some content given how you don't need any kind of holy trinity to do so. (Thank....god)
See above example where I brought up the PuG that trashed Synapse in under 2 hours. Just going by your own logic, would it have been done faster if we'd had more defs? At that point it would have been overkill, no one, even poor squishy me [/sarcasm] had any issue surviving whatsoever. And any -res you added probably would have benifited me as the lone blaster the most, given how many PBAoe I was flinging about around the brute. Due to the fact that besides the ar/storm corr I was the only one with any real aoe's at all.
Now I know clockwork aren't the best example to run with in that regard, I'll admit it myself. But still, from my viewpoint we actually slowed down more when we lost the elec/elec blaster that was man 8 over the psi/emp who was man 7.
Moving rrrright along.
When was the last time anyone actually took the time to try and make an all def or even a 4 def team without driving others insane waiting to go? Or knew that many defs actually looking for a team?
When was the last time you found a pug that through just through -res or buffs like fort was able to get anywhere near the damage cap?
And as others have stated given that the base line 0/x1 is easy to the point where any combination of AT's is viable. Why is that much force multiplier even needed outside anything extreme like a mothership raid or maybe the CoP trial?
And finally. When was the last time we tried to make an argument about blasters being weak with a world where apparently only defenders and blasters exist in the magic numbers?
You guys can lay out the math all you want, in fact you're a bit off, just a quick check of mids puts most base def attacks probably higher then 40% of blaster, probably closer to 50% in some instances such as when i looked at archery and rain of arrow.
Claim all you want that it somehow puts blasters at the back compared to others, but a majority of players really don't pay attention to min-max 101. And even less actually probably read the forums, so in terms of really convincing anyone here? It's about as futile as doing a certain activity I can't mention on the forums into the wind.
Their "Subjective" experience? I'd wager (since we can't opinions mixed with facts right?) that they're still having fun playing what they want, blasters included. Lord knows I am.
That and I'll make a pretty good guess their "Objective" experiences in terms of effectiveness inside the game and outside the schoolhouse may differ from yours as well.
Oh and since he got brought up earlier hehe.
A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.
-Napoleon Bonaparte-
Substitute ribbon for spreadsheet and I think that sums this thread up pretty well. Hmm or could just mean my giant orange numbers, I dunno... Heck either way I'm still having fun, so who gives a flip?
Mmm shiny ribbon, I'm gonna get it!
*Chases it back out of the thread all cat like* -
Things my fire/ice is teaching me.
#1 Clockwork in prae suck... =p
#2 Ice sword is not bone smasher (respeced out)
#3 Why did I not take my T1 attack till a respec? There's no reason now with defiance the way it is to skip them at all, and the new flares really is impressive, not to mention crazy fast recharge.
#4 Chilling embrace is in the build for now, jury's out on keeping it.
That said I'm really enjoying the art of the corner pull on this one over my normal blapper playstyle. Watching whole packs come around the corner into chilling embrace then the full fire aoe barrage is enjoyable as anything. Though bosses still give me fits, as does the ol aggro management, I think "rain of aggro" is a great way to describe that power, though dropping it point blank on chilled mobs then watching them try to run doesn't get old ever.
Can't wait till ice patch though, i get the feeling that's when things will get even more fun.
As for the other alts, still in the low levels, I'll have more to say on them later. That and I'm going down the list, and realizing I've only got elec, psy, and energy in terms of primary sets I haven't played with.
Toyed with eng/dev, but that seems too much like my ice/dev, so may pass on it. Elec though was what's giving me fits, I kinda do but kinda don't want to make an E3 blaster, it's been done already, but none of the other sets seem to have any decent synergy with it. Any thoughts? -
Can't say without testing, and my DP/em already has 3 entropic chaos sets, so that throws my recharge out of whack from the base line. If you threw in hasten though I'd call it doable regardless. Let you know if I get some playtime tomorrow.
Though on a side note it seems when I'm running that exec shot and piercing rounds (if you throw it in) animated a lot faster if you chain it off pistols instead of the crouch from dual wield, might want to take that into account too? -
Quote:Just because I need something silly to blow post 1000 on, can I be an evil twin bent on stealing the fortunes of scrapper Inc from the evil Fan family, and funnel it all to a secret underground lair powered by inf farmers creating knockoff purple recipes at discount prices. Which then is used to fund my front company genetically breeding chibi forum trolls that brainwash through sheer green cuteness any poster they encounter to blame every problem on the devs and not their own playing ability?Originally Posted by Kyria_Shirako
On the next exciting episode of Why a Blaster:
Arbegla, who has recovered from his amnesia to discover that he is, in fact, a capybara, must confront his twin over the inheritance to the McDuesh fortune, but how will he handle it when he learns Stratonexus' baby isn't his? Meanwhile, Thinkso interrupts Grey Pilgrim's and Another_Fan's wedding wearing nothing more than a cravat and three ounces of Worchestershire sauce. But is the bride actually in love with the condiment-smeared madman?
Stay tuned for the next page of Why A Blaster, only on CoH Forums.
>.> <.>
Just asking is all. :P -
Quote:*sighs* You know I really was willing to meet you on this too, I guess admitting blasters and scrappers are equal in their overlap just isn't enough for some people though is it?Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Hyperbolic post is hyperbolic
But I guess an attempt at compromise is also lost on people who seem to think this is all about winning an argument too. I'm sorry if you have to take this so seriously, as I said this thread is just a game to me at this point, and a rather boring one now at that. After all it's hard to respond to a post that's little more then vitriol and insults. One that gives away your opinion on the matter more then anything. And troll bait I really don't feel like rising too.
If that's where we are fine by me, you aren't interested in having a discussion so I think we're done here. Have fun with your misguided beliefs regarding blasters, I'm going to have fun playing them, "Giant orange numbers" and all.
Oh and yes I think they're fine the way they are, even dual pistols. If you don't think so, then do us all a favor, offer a real suggestion or two on how to improve the AT rather then this silly continued crusade to tear the AT down vs all the others. Preferably one that doesn't involve power creep or think MOAR DAMAGE is the answer to everything.
/thread =p -
Quote:Just for the record I've only skimmed the other posts in the thread, so I apologize if this overlaps with other arguements on other tangents hehe That and since a lot of it looks to be going off into chart land, this is my brain going Zzzzzz =pOriginally Posted by Another_Fan
Fact every time numbers are presented in this thread you ignore them.
Fact it has been repeatedly proved. The numbers have been presented in this thread time and again.
Fact you continuously present your opinion as fact and have stated that facts don't matter to you
And one last fact.
Whitewashing fences is a reference to Huckleberry Finn.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/76
Do yourself a favor and read it.
Oh and an edit. You asked a question but so far you haven't answered the fundamental question. When is a blaster the best choice ? When is it a better choice than anything else ?
I already know the answer to this and its almost never, and it will only be getting worse with incarnates and I19 inherent fitness.
You know I was just gonna leave this thread alone after reading this post, after all it's pretty clear satire and sarcasm really are lost on people. Well that and I stopped taking the thread seriously about 3 posts back. And when you start bring up DPS numbers and say tanks are creeping on blasters AF, it's pretty damn hard to take you seriously too.
Annnyway that said I guess I can go for it one more time. I'll lay it out nice and clear for you this time, opinions and all.
Oh and for the record I'm unabashed about being very opinionated, if I state a fact I'm going to have actual experience to back it up, or I'm going to offer an idea of how the fight would go based on my ACTUAL knowledge of how blasters and in game mobs behave, you should try it sometime. If you get my opinions confused with facts, well that's your problem chief, not mine. Let me just go ahead and say that everything in this thread unless labeled otherwise is an opinion, just to spare you that problem.
I'll just highlight that last sentence in your quote as a prime example of failing at that. You throw it out there like blaster doom, yet you leave us all asking why? If this was a real debate you start with a premise such as that, but then you have to back it up with actual evidence to prove the point.
Now your numbers? Yes they are facts, but your numbers are not proof. As I saw said above this is not city of pylons, DPS does not operate in a vacuum. I don't give a damn about your numbers because they have no bearing on actual in game scenarios, something you still fail to present past a spreadsheet. We're not city of math majors either. We deal with mob spreads, adds, team buffs, mob debuffs, getting to the next group of mobs (in some cases before the blaster can aoe it hehe), perhaps falling back to pull a boss off a blaster pulling too much heat, lining up a melee cone, in sort all those pesky little real world details that a spreadsheet can not take into account.
So if you really wanted to shut me up just show me one concrete in game example of a scapper against X mob type, how the fights went, then throw a blaster against the same thing, as I did time and again in this thread with my factual personal experience and opinions of how the fights would go given my knowledge of the AT and mob behavior. Damage caps, DPS, and mids plans don't take real world factors into account, so in my opinion they have no bearing on the question you're asking me regarding why a blaster over anything else.
Honestly I'm willing to meet you halfway, and here's why. After my lil snarkfest on overlapping powers in that last post I realized something, I'm perfectly fine with how scrappers are along with blasters. Don't confuse my bias for blasters as one against scrappers, they simply don't suit me but this doesn't detract from their performance, unlike your many comments regarding blasters in this thread. There's overlap yes but again and I'll say it so there's no confusion, in my opinion scrappers trade damage for survival, and need the higher hp due to being in melee. Blasters however still bring more damage to the table along with proper mitigation in the right instances at the cost of that survival ability. This is mostly due to the aoes yes, but also the ST blaps that will rival anything a scrapper can do, and that's at level 10 with bone smasher and build up if you go /em
Oh and that's opinion along with Mids numbers, just so you know =p
What I really dislike about you and some of the other "haters" in this thread is the fact you can't seem to grasp that concept. As the saying goes you've got plenty of book learning, but not much street smarts (i.e actually seeing what blasters can do) You highlight all the weaknesses, none of the good, and have this quite frankly brain dead notion that all a blaster is, is damage. So therefore to you, scrapper does more DPS, and so scrapper > blaster. Never mind not every blaster sec is devoted to damage? Umm...devices players, raise your hand here?
Am i getting it right? Feel free to correct me otherwise.
Either way we're honestly both running in circles, my question I've come to realize really is as invalid as yours. Blasters and scrappers both deal out damage, just the damage is dealt in different manners, with different risks, through different styles. Why a blaster or why a scrapper solo or team has too many actual factors to take into account, and frankly it's a pointless question because both are equally viable. Even if you and others seem to think otherwise regarding blasters for some rather silly reasons.
But that's as far as I'm willing to go on it for now, not in a mood to play the tit for tat quote pyramid game anymore regardless. Though one last little jibe for you since I sense an implied insult at my intelligence or knowledge of culture.
I take it you were trying to imply that Castle is too lazy to go balance the blaster AT to suit your whims, so he's got us "We're having fun so it doesn't matter LALALALA!!!" players to do the job for him? Well like the characters in the story, if we're being "tricked" into having fun, does it really matter? We're enjoying ourselves and that's what does count a whole heck of a lot more then any pointless metric.
Oh and I have read Huck Finn, it's a pretty good book, though the whitewashing the fence scene? It happens to be in the adventures of Tom Sawyer.
Also a good book, maybe you should re-read it sometime?
-
Quote:#1: You still seem incapable of answering even one simple question asked of you.
What is it these lack ? Well they all still die much more often than other ATs. They do less for teams and they solo slower in the later game than just about anything except may defenders (depending on the defender even that might not be true)
#2: Prove it.
You know how I said opinions aren't facts? It's remarks like this I was talking about. Kinda like this dead horse too.
First off do you know how many of my blasters are built for defense set wise? Zero. The only one even halfway kitted out in sets is my ice/dev. and she's built for recharge, enough to almost have perma hasten again, along with dual gun drones, and a nonstop attack chain that makes a brutes fury bar look downright silly compared to how high i can get the defiance buffs going.Quote:Meanwhile in the adult, highlevel-world other ATs can go to town similarly without support or resorting to expensive defensive IO-set builds picking on select enemy-types. No matter the rhetorics; Blasters do not nearly get enough back for being one-trick ponies in relation to other ATs.
Second, no matter how many times you say it, unless you feel like providing actual in game examples and experiences playing scenarios with blasters vs scrappers vs doms vs god, I ain't gonna buy it as my experiences playing blasters says otherwise. The same goes to any spreadsheet, mids plan, or some hey look at me I can solo all the Rikti pylons and states while having a nice cup of tea build. Outliers like that don't have any relevance to the point of the thread, which still is why a blaster. To which I and others say it's because we bring a lot to the table, and because they're fun as anything to play.
Past that? Not really interested in convincing either of you anymore so much as having fun tweaking. After all it was clear from that lil bit of hyperbole in AF's posts and saying that we're "Whitewashing for castle" That he doesn't want to be, and won't be convinced anyway that blasters aren't just as good if not better at points then his "favorite AT" You have a scrapper bias that's fine, I have an unapologetic snarky as all get out blaster bias myself. And yes still do think scrappers are dull, slider or otherwise. After all if you want to talk about an "AT with little more then five different animations of brawl" I think that sums them up pretty well.
All you and seraphel are doing at this point is constantly shifting the argument, ignoring things in posts that go against your opinions, providing zero evidence to back up said opinions past unproven or unprovable anecdotes. Or in his case constantly trying to turn it to some other silly strawman (Love the word) like the all scrappers need are reds or it's hard for blaster to position a cone. (LOL)
*Picks target in back middle of mob, or hits hot keyed target farthest enemy button to ensure the cone doesn't stop short*
*Alternately sits by the edge of the mobs tank/brute/whatever just herded*
*Fires cone*
*Watches mobs die*
Just cause I'm feeling rather snarky this morning I can't help but ask. Do you really suck at blasters that bad that you haven't figured that one out yet Seraphel? Half the stuff you seem to be still intent on whining about or say doesn't matter is what a smart blaster calls learning his AT and what it can do, as evidenced by airhammer's examples. Also, accuracy doesn't matter? (LOL x2) Tell that to any 8 man team when the level count starts rising, or a solo in the wrong mob type. A blaster that doesn't hit is a dead blaster. It's why the hardest mobs I've faced on my new DP/Eng have been cot ghosts flooring my acc, or a time when a force field generator from the sky raiders made me miss at least my entire attack chain and change against a BP mask. (The stop crey negotiations vig tip mission)
Also if you'd like I'll gladly take my now 29 rad/fire SK'ed up into any high level TF, Trial, or mission, and I'll wager you're going to see the same results. Show me a target, and I'll show you my blasters melting them. And if I don't beat some magical number metric in the process? Three words.
I, Don't, care. =p
So what if a scrapper in some instances might overlap into my area of damage? Ok that's fine. But wait, don't tanks have better HP and better armor? I know how bout we start a why a scrapper thread? After all why would anyone want to play a scrapper when a tank is easier to keep alive and still has enough damage to solo. Not to mention brings more to a team by being able to herd mobs better then a scrapper for his aoe using teammates? Or stand toe to toe with bosses a lot longer.
But hold on, controllers can keep entire spawns locked down with their primary, and keep them debuffed to make things easier for the team. Or soloing it helps the damage they do put out along with the containment buff they got due to complaints of soloing too slow. (I.E. A reason and well thought argument made by the troller players, something I've yet to see here from people who think blasters need more) So how bout a why a tanker thread? Who needs them to herd when nothing is attacking or debuffed to the nines anyway?
Oh shoot, though now that I think about defenders buff/debuffs have higher values (with maybe the exception of storm, least that was the case pre IO's if I remember right) And they have a whole secondary of direct damage, some of which has stuns and holds anyway. Pair that with the damage they can do, and why would anyone want a controller? Specially on a team since the defender brings better buffs and higher damage, who needs the holds if you're killing faster?
Hold on though, if you just need damage with a dash of holds or few debuffs to boot (devices most of all) who needs the defender? After all a blaster brings a much higher chunk of damage, more aoe's, can in the right instances be just as useful with selective holds and debuffs too. Which you need just long enough to make everything around you dead. So perhaps a why a defender thread is in order?
And then of course we're right back here to silly scrapper arguments and a why a blaster thread, I guess the circle is complete, and overlap is a pain eh?
On a side note to that list Airhammer.
O_O good god, and I thought 3 50's was fun enough. Though I see a rad/fire at the bottom of the list, enjoying the build much as I am? -
Though some might call it cherrypicking sets again, here's a lil story from today.
Pulled out my rad/fire blaster, she's just slotted with 25 or 30 IO's and no sets. Was just gonna solo but got invited to a synapse TF, started with 8, ended with 6, 1:57 time to finish. Team was 1 brute 1 corr 1 stalker 2 defs and me by the end.
Exemped to 20 I still had aim, build up, irradiate, fire sword circle, and combustion as my main aoes. Tier 1 and 2 attacks along with cosmic burst for ST damage.
And this is why I love this blaster build too, as on a team I've got free reign to just go to town, at least 2-3 times a mission i could walk up to the herd the brute made, hit build up, then irradiate for the -def, or just FSC and BOOM! That sound you hear is me flattening an aoe cap worth of dead clockwork. The ST chain was great for smaller fights and helped on bosses, though mostly that was where the stalker was doing the heavy lifting alongside the brute. And the corr dropping freezing rain left and right (ar/storm) was sending the damage tally even higher.
The TF got steamrolled, alongside the time we had a 0 defeat score to boot. But looking back on it, I noticed, hey not a single scrapper, we seem to certainly have no shortage of teamwork and damage piling on though.
So I just can't help but wonder, aside from the bosses which in a couple instances aggroed on me for minor trouble, or more scattered mobs when i had to resort to ST attacks rather then waste end on aoe's for just 1-2, how would the scrapper have outperformed me damage wise overall?
More so as only once when I got ahead and aggroed another group by accident did I even get below half HP the entire TF. So survivability was a total non issue, I had free reign to aoe as much as I wanted. And I had a brute making nice sized packs to just lay waste too.
So for the people who say blasters aren't good enough, too squishy, or don't bring enough damage to a team compared to scrappers, well still waiting to be proven wrong here.
Oh and still having a ball playing them, last time I checked that's still the big reason we play right? =p
Brute: "Man I wish I had burn around now."
Me: "Hey least you got me!"
Brute: "True this." -
So in an ongoing case of alt-its, and a desire to master all things blaster I've started three new toons at once, all powersets I have yet to play. And was shooting for things that aren't as Fotm as some combos like fire/mental.
#1 fire/ice in prae
#2 sonic/mental in paragon
#3 archery/elec in paragon (What can I say I'm sick of ambushes)
The builds aren't concrete, except for maybe #2, as despite all evidence against the plan I'm skipping siren's song, and going to rely heavy on the knockback and screech for my mitigation. Looks like it could be a conetastic build too with a dash of ST.
Going heavy aoe like the fire/ice (As it is fire after all) And invest in chilling embrace, along with ice patch and shiver to see just how well they work paired with all that damage. Seemed like the best choice for mitigation too given fire's lack of it.
The arch/elec will probably be a ST style build, more in my normal blaster comfort zone then aoe builds.
Question is, which do you all think will be the most fun, or go the distance you could say in wanting to get it all the way to 50? That and any particular synergy you think they'd have or perhaps be lacking? -
While I don't have time for a full reply before work, I am curious about one thing AF.
I've got a full stable of blasters clean from 1-50 range I can play around with, so I'll pass the ball to you, what is proper parameters in your book? and what qualifies as success or failure? As you never seemed to mention that in your post.
More to come tonight after the work at 11. Stay tuned kids! =p -
Quote:Castle, could you or someone else explain this a bit more clearly? Not sure what you mean by auto hit pulse triggering a spawn. Also, it have something to do with the fact a will of the earth double spawned ambushes when we ran from it, then tried to get close again?Originally Posted by Castle
Will of the Earth
Evil, evil object.
Basically, it has a chance of spawning enemies based on the number of enemies hit by an auto-hit pulse. Difficulty settings don't much matter, since they are spawned via the powers system rather than the standard spawn system.
There are tactics you can use to minimize its effects, and, due to the nature of it's powers, Masterminds, Dominators and Controllers are at a bit of a disadvantage. -
Quote:I'm sorry but what part of my post you cherry picked right there was even talking about mezz protection? And doesn't seem to notice the defiance arguments raging through this entire thread about that very topic? *Is actually a little confused in that regard* What I was talking about was how spreadsheets =/= real game knowledge of mobs, as evidenced by the two realistic scenarios below that part of the post. Which I note you've conveniently ignored. Now if you want to give me a realistic scenario where scrappers pull ahead rather then simply saying that's the case I'm all ears. I'm not a huge fan of people who get opinions mixed up with facts.
Given that no one is considering the blaster's minimal mezz protection and the effect it has on damage output, the scrapper pulls further ahead the more realistic the scenario is.
Just for giggles lets throw one more out there, and go with nemesis this time, bout a scrapper friendly blaster hating group as they come given virtually every attack is a ranged one. But given that a lot of mobs like to stay at range and unload rather then close in, how would a spines scrapper bunch them up for his aoes short of a corner pull? something a blaster could do in a much easier manner with range, then go to town with his own aoes.
Ok on this one you're more accurate, you rightly called me on the fact I did miss that many scrapper sets like dark melee and spines do have a secondary effect, in that regard I was wrong.Quote:Scrappers don't have secondary effects ? If you want to make the comparison you need to compare to other primary damage dealing ATs. Just going back to the spines vs fire, fires secondary effect is extra damage, spines secondary effects are immobilization and -recharge -movement speed.
But, what you did miss was the point of the paragraphs above and below. Spines and fire don't work in a vacuum. There's secondary sets to consider, and while a scrapper gets zilch but defense or resistance the blaster brings a lot more to the table for his sets. If you went fire/fire for instance you just tacked on two extra aoe's for the blaster, and I'm not counting burn or hotfeet as they are a bit more specialized.
fire/ice? All those nems just got corner pulled into an ice patch for a virtually damage free killing field for the blaster while the scrapper tries to herd them and get shot at.
fire/dev? Smoke grenade cloak pulls for easy single kills, or just herd them onto caltrops same as ice. That's before we even start throwing out trip mines.
fire/eng? Before total focus I probably would fit stun into my build for an LT at the start. Then Build up, bone smasher, power thrust maybe = dead minion. Energy punch plus a T2 Attack = dead minion thanks to defiance helping out. (Two attacks out damaging anything in spines except impale and ripper) remaining powers in chain finish off remaining minions, which i can do with the oh so crappy dual pistol set by the by [/sarcasm] much less fire here.
EDIT: And by two attacks I meant bone smasher and energy punch, not a T2 blast.
I just want to know one thing, how did you in one comment here go from saying you wanted to compare fire vs spines, then by the end said we should only compare blaster aoe to blaster aoe?Quote:I stated in the comparison I had picked high end AoE sets to compare, but most blaster AoE is damage is about on the same model with the exception of the rain powers.
The ability to attack at range is not as large a matter as you would think. Ranged classes in this game don't in general outrange their opponents.
The AoE area is also only relevant in comparing blaster AoE vs Blaster AoE. Blasters have to deal with spread spawns scrappers can easily concentrate them.
As for the middle of it, as GP said, we do outrange scrappers, something that is still being ignored. Just saying we don't outrange mobs doesn't make his point any less valid.
And spread spawns? As i already said, it's called a simple corner pull, use it, learn it, love it. Instant bunched mobs which = instant aoe death by a blaster. Or maybe just realize that most mobs love to close to melee range, so why not let them do the bunching for you, then fire off the aoes after single target shots and/or some mitigation, so the aoes are further boosted by defiance bonuses?
Again, and I can't stress this enough, opinion does not equal fact, and spreadsheet does not equal in game knowledge. You can say it's all the same if you want, but how bout a real example to prove it true? I'd be more inclined to maybe agree if you could provide one.Quote:Then they should be doing more for the team, be it total damage output, AoE damage or other. If by sick damage, you mean about the same as other ATs do well yes.
And also when it comes to teaming I'm just going to point to blaster secondary powers, many of which assist a team a whole heck of a lot more then the scrapper secondary, which only assists the scrapper. If we look back to that other silly argument in this thread about how defender and corr buffs/debuffs should be credited to them over the blaster, can we credit all the extra mitigation a blaster brings to those mobs he left stunned, confused, sleeping, flopping or debuffed for the scrapper the same way? =p -
You know I think I've finally figured out my biggest problem with this thread, two of them actually, that inane other DP thread kinda helped too.
#1 People really need to stop treating this like a math exam again, whether your pro or con on the blasters = broken somehow argument. Comparing Fire and Spines for example. It's an apple and oranges deal because it doesn't put the numbers in the context of actual in game experience or different power choices. Against a static practice dummy (Or rikti pylon if you want to go that extreme, though I think it's stupid to do so) Obviously a lot of blast sets look weak on paper compared to a few melee counterparts DPS wise. But this assumes perfect DPS, max targets, and perfect setups, and how often do we actually see that inside the game vs a spreadsheet? Also if damage was the only factor devices would be the worst set on the planet, when any smart blaster who has played it can tell you that's anything but the truth.
Just from a soloing perspective since that is part of the thread (teaming being a whole other can of worms) How much damage is the scrapper who just got pegged by that malta sapper doing? Granted from my own experiences abusing the AI I'm sure there's plenty of sets that can build up and either one shot or two shot a minion class mob, even with that oh so evil "redraw penalty" *pokes that other silly thread* but i know that's not 100% perfect either.
But what's a lot more reliable (barring the odd miss, same as a scrapper) is a freeze ray to the face or insert blaster mezz of your choice here. Or a good ol fashioned build up plus ranged attack of your choice from far enough out that the sapper is dropped before he can even think of attacking you. Heck or from right in his face too after the mezz if you're /energy or /elec.
To throw out another how much DPS is that scrapper going to be doing stuck in a KoA caltrop patch of doom when he can't even get to half his targets, as opposed to the blaster hovering above it raining death? Or the one sitting back at range behind his own caltrops, or an ice patch, waiting to deal with any approaching mobs with a mezz, or melee smack, or a burn patch with hot feet going, or stand under a point blank rain attack as mobs get confused between melee attacks or trying to escape the damage, or a blaster aura like chilling embrace and world of confusion, or be neutered by power sink and short circuit, should i go on here?
That's #2 A good chunk of this thread probably is based on the faulty premise that damage and only damage seems to matter, when blasters soloed or team bring a lot more mitigation through pri and sec both. Unlike a lot of the Primary vs Primary arguments in the thread. Which only seem to focus on the damage aspects of powers, not the others in our powersets, and never the secondary effects (negligible yes compared to defs, but we still have them, just ask sonic)
That's why I think I can't play scrappers worth anything (though I don't think they're broken) All they have going for them is what many people seem to be ragging on blasters for. Just pure damage, and hoping they have enough HP or Def/Res (depending on sec choice) To tough it out through the fight. And have to rely on luck from a crit vs the easy to exploit defiance mechanic upping damage consistently. Run into heavy debuffing or drain, or just sheer numbers though when things go south, and enough lucky rolls will = dead scrapper or running scrapper. They don't have any tactic to me beyond walk up, melee till mob is dead, repeat. No pulling ability, no real ability to capitalize on stuns or debuffs, and most of all no defiance making every attack I pull off harder hitting then the first, something my new sonic blaster is loving. In short, I find them boring to play and lacking the flair that tanks have, so I don't play them, doesn't mean I hate them though or am gonna go whining in the scrapper forum about how busted they are.
Though I will concede one point, when things do go really bad that extra hp does give the scrapper a slight advantage in getting away, same with built in mezz resistances. And a blaster suffers the same problems, but the blaster also has more tools in my opinion to make sure things don't get that ugly as opposed to just hitting the attack chain nonstop. That and as has been beaten to death too, a smart blaster doesn't get mezzed, or knows that insps are part of the game and emergency break free is your friend when defiance aint hacking it.
Either way if this thread is going to stay alive, can we please try to focus on blasters as a whole, and how things work in the real fake world of paragon then in math class? -
Quit team, changed slider to -1 and no bosses.
For some reason the crystals then only spawned 2 minions and an LT, or only 3 minions.
I think there is a bug in there somewhere, maybe with bosses while solo setting?
Either way at least it was doable then, but I really really still wish the devs would learn that ambushes aren't fun, all they are is tedious and annoying. -
Those four screen shots are from the level 29ish will of the earth arc, the last two missions have you destory special object crystals now. Only catch is when I'm playing on 0/0 bosses solo. I hit the crystal, then suddenly I have spawn on top of me at point blank range at the very least 6 minions and 2 LT's. All of which proceed to chain stun and melee me to death all but instantly. The first screen shots above part of that mess.
MM friend offers to help, we go in, screen shot 2, the spawn size istantly doubled, made the problem even worse, we're suddenly dealing with a room full of DE that ignore the bots and proceed to trash us.
Drop the mission, move on to next, oh look more crystals, controller friend offers help. We counted before dying TWENTY SEVEN mobs insta spawning around the crystal for a 3 man team, my screen lighting up with stuns, and De eminators, and a crystal that's casting healing aura on all of them!
You know normally I try to be civil but in this instance I want to just tell the devs one simple thing they obviously didn't learn in praetoria either between the seer mission and Shen. Or the fifty million arachnos that spawn on the miss thystle tip mission.
EXCESSIVE AND STUPIDILY SIZED AMBUSHES ARE NOT FUN!!!!!
I'm really getting fed up with some of the new mechanics really boiling down to, "Hey how many mobs can we simply throw at a player to tick them off?"
Well good job, you succeeded in making me mad enough to ragequit for the day on coh, and I'm going to seriously hope this is a simple bugged mission. Because if they meant that to be soloed or doable on a team without requiring me to go find a tank then I'm going to need a bigger tray, it took a good 3-6 purples for each crystal solo just to beat through the mobs without dying. -
Quote:Well for starters I actually read posts, rather then make snarky comments about the first part while not addressing the rest, as you said in your one post, I'll bold the part that matters.Originally Posted by Seraphael
Strawman arguments won't get you very far. After the developers boosted the AT, I have never said so and I don't think anyone here truly feels that is the case. Still anyone with any experience and integrity acknowledge the games is riddled with imbalance issues. I'm trying to make a case for some specific changes to address the issue with Blasters which would also make the AT more fun.
Ok first, what part of Blasters having to to keep not only break frees, but also purple defense and green heal inspirations on hand would translate into Scrappers being able to use their inspiration tray for purely offensive purposes was not understood yet? Abstract thinking too hard?
I'm not about to go into the anal-retentive mudslinging contest you've initiated when I can address adults.
Quote:Yep. Always save a couple break frees. And as many purples as you can get, and a few greens. In the meanwhile, a Scrapper can use reds to run around with a significant permanent damage boost. The Blaster is virtually the only AT that actually needs inspirations. Fair? I don't think so.
Seraphael, with all due respect you haven't been offering suggestions to make the AT better, you've been offering a nonstop batch of unprovable blanket statements through the majority of your posts along the lines of "Blasters are the first to faceplant" "Blasters are subpar soloists" or "Scrappers outdo ST blasters" and so on so forth, I invite you one of these days to watch my all ST ice/dev in action and see how wrong that is.
Also if you want to just simply take the top of my post and call me a mudslinger or "childish" without addressing the reasoning and arguments that were below that, well it makes it hard to continue the discussion. That I find it just a touch ironic you want to complain about mudslinging, then go right into the name calling. Mr pot, Mr kettle on line 2 for you.
I could have boiled that post down to simply L2P newb! If I had felt like it, but I tried to show you why I think you're wrong (More so on this misguided mezz makes blasters useless theme of yours) using actual gameplay experiences and knowing a good chunk of how blasters work due to the fact that I've played virtually nothing but them since beta. Now if you want to talk gameplay, I'm all for it, but if you're gonna just keep rambling, it's /thread time for me. After all this thread's pretty much hit a point where it's going in circles anyway, can't please everyone right? =p
Oh and the lil smiley up there? He implies that you also really need to get a sense of humor about things too, oh or is that too childish of a thought to have? -
just a side note I apologize for the wall of text this is going to be. But I tend to get wordy explaining things, and there's alot to debunk. Also Airhammer I'm shamelessly making you my new Sig.
Short version: Blasters still aren't broken. =p
But regarding some things that have been said.
Quote:Ok first, what part of keep a break free on hand was not understood yet? Also though here's Why this is wrongThe tier one in the secondary rarely make the line up, due to the very slow nature of the DoT. Apart from that you state the obvious, I've never said anything different. In teams, Blasters quite often spend a significant time being mezzed though (esp. vs. Malta and the infernally overpowered Stun Grenades) and a mezzed Blaster is hard pressed to outdamage anyone.
#1 You aren't taking into account that the tier ones all recharge well before the dot stops, making it easy as anything to spam multiple dots on a mob.
Base recharge on all of them is around 4-6 seconds Before you slot anything. Three simple level 25 recharge IO's all but halves that, effectivily doubling your dots right there. That's without even taking hasten or IO sets in the mix.
#2 You left out the -50% recharge web grenade has which pretty much halves a boss's damage right there. That and both /ice and /psy slow recharge speed too.
#3 again we're only talking Malta? What about any boss that prefers high melee damage? Keep him at range with roots and you're limiting the incoming damage a blaster takes as well.
/facepalm . . . Hyperbole much? It's called using insps is PART OF THE GAMEQuote:Yep. Always save a couple break frees. And as many purples as you can get, and a few greens. In the meanwhile, a Scrapper can use reds to run around with a significant permanent damage boost. The Blaster is virtually the only AT that actually needs inspirations. Fair? I don't think so.
#1 Any blaster popping greens is in over his head, purples serve him better because he already has all the damage he needs from range and higher aoe caps then scrappers as already pointed out eariler.
#2 How is the need for pruples and break frees any different for blasters then it is for every other squishy class in the game without mezz protection, more so as without defiance they are sitting ducks?
#3 You honestly think just because a scrapper has his magic makes all the difference mezz protection he somehow is just gonna use nothing but reds? Show me a scrapper that does, and I'll show you one hit by the L2P bat. How bout blues to keep his armors up, purples for that extra edge, greens for if he pulls too many mobs or takes a few too many melee hits to the face through them (something most blasters never worry about as the mobs are dead before they get near)
See above regarding DoT stacking, as for Aim and BU, my DP/EM's take on things.Quote:I see this argument too often to continue to let it remain unopposed. First off, not all Blasters have access to Aim and Build Up or indeed either of the two. Secondly, it's not feasible to wait for BU/Aim to recharge every spawn. In practical gameplay, the realistic option is to alternate the powers each new spawn (if you have access). Furthermore, let me remind you that Ring of Fire is a slow DoT.
"BU isn't up? Well that's what suppresive fire is for!" *Stuns mezzer, then proceeds to wipe the floor with them with blap attacks*
Stun resistant? *Power thrust into wall, blap, jump back, piercing rounds, executioner shot, dead*
And now that she has CJ and acrobatics, good luck KB'ing or holding me long enough to not do that. This is also the same blaster that is soloing +0 bosses and +0 4 minion 1 LT packs, without a SINGLE aoe to her name.
BU and Aim aren't needed for every spawn because a blaster has plenty of other tricks, see again the whole learning your AT problem some seem to have.
Again, totally wrong.Quote:So you say. To the contrary overall AT performance should revolve around what an AT is able to achieve at any difficulty level. No one should have much difficulty with the default level with no bosses. Doing such missions all the way to 50 sounds like an inanely boring and lengthy process indeed.
ST styles would have a much easier go at it with +2/x0 mob packs, as there's less all around to come after you.
AoE blasters would love lots of little mobs so a +0/2x would probably suit them more.
Either way 0/0 is the baseline for a reason, it's classic playing like we still have SO only CoX, and it's how the devs balance the game. They don't take high slider settings from "uber" builds or fully purpled out 50's for the simple reason of power creep. And as they have stated too many times to count the game is balanced so you can still play it and be effective without putting a single IO on your toon.
And for the record I play 0/0 solo because I'm getting ready for work around 1:30 PM and not getting home till around 12:00 AM EST which means I miss most of prime time for teaming even on the mostly west coast virtue. Also I don't give a flip about leveling fast, I take my time and keep it (GASP!) casual because I enjoying learning a powerset inside and out. And I care even less how I stack up against some +4/6x build because I'm enjoying playing my way, and isn't that the point of gaming? One man's inane and boring is another man's fun, hate to burst your bubble there.
In my experience the first to usually faceplant is the scrapper that thinks he's a tank, the blaster who foolishly fires off his aoe's before tanks get the aggro, or any AT dumb enough to wade into the AOE field from mass nemesis shots or things like COT behemoths. Either way though the blasters are the first to faceplant is inherntly false on too many levels to count. Unless they are the "The magic orange numbers will save me!" KindQuote:Sorry, this just doesn't hold water with me. The developers promoted the game early on for being solo friendly and casual friendly. It was one of the main reasons I applied for and gained access to the US Beta way back when. The developers blessed Controllers with the bestest inherent by freaking far to help them with their soloing difficulties. Later they changed the Blaster inherent to help us solo, and finally changed the Defender inherent to help them solo at a better pace.
Even though Blasters are generally the first to faceplant on teams, I prefer the unpredictability that sometimes comes with multiple unknown factors. However, finding a proper team isn't all that easy on the EU servers at least and often I'm forced to solo hours on end. I'm sure most players have similar experience, so being evaluated purely on team performance when teams are available less than half of the time seems unjust.
But that aside CoX still is solo friendly, if anything it's more solo friendly with all the buffs blasters have gotten over the issues. Try going back to play one just after ED for instance. Talk about playstyle readjustments for a ton of players. Or the great smoke grenade nerf that every device blaster screaming in rage. The more recent Total focus nerf that caused a minor ragestorm. Or the fact that the slider is still a pretty recent addition to the game, more so the new totally free highly detailed one.
As for the rest I'm gonna let my inner snark beast out for a moment, and say it sounds like you need to get over the controller envy. Accept the fact you have to solo at times, and some of us enjoy it that way. That and seriously look away from the XP bar a bit. Simply enjoy the ride to 50 rather then rush there. When I find myself obessing over leveling, merit earning, or my WW bids, that's when I know it's time for a new alt or time to take a break.
>.> <. well that and say if you can solo as a blaster even on then there certain acronym comes to mind again.>
and bonus quote!
And as again been stated, and as again seems to be constantly ignored, blasters have a higher aoe cap then scrappers, and a lot more aoe's at range to get the job done. That 100% difference means jack when the blaster is hitting anywhere between 2x to 4x more targets then the scrapper. And has defiance bonuses to reach is damage cap a whole heck of a lot easier even if it's an ST blaster alone. That and who even needs to hit the damage cap to begin with? On small teams or 0/0 gaming a couple attacks at that level of damage are going to drop everything regardless. Keep in mind that's where the balance game is played, not at the extreme ends your both arguing over, we don't need to put this into math exam territory.Quote:This isn't even considering that the blaster has a 400% damage cap while the scrapper has a 500% damage cap. -
Quote:Seriously? You consider this blaster Kyptonite? And first off any blaster who lets the mobs get the first shot by the time you're fighting Malta really does need a learn to play comment. As mobs always take a moment to react when they see you provided you don't attack, which if you know how to abuse the AI usually lets you run right up to them before they start the alpha.
Lets take the case of Malta and that fire/electric that was mentioned up thread, you have a gunslinger, a sapper, assorted other enemies. The gunslinger freezes you, the sapper goes to town. Just for the sake of argument, say the sapper is your prime target and you manage to take him down, this can be done in about 4 seconds using single target attacks that are covered by defiance. At that point you still have 25 seconds of single targeting the gunslinger while he and the rest of the spawn, go to town on you. Good luck with that.
Also I've never even played fire or elec but can tell you how this would go against your average solo spawn.
Build up + havoc punch + thunder strike = dead sapper as you run into the spawn, rest of Malta should be reacting right around now if you're quick. No need for ST defiance attacks, you get the first shot.
Blaster should have enough HP even without sets to soak the alpha attacks that are coming your way. If sapper got an attack off, power sink should = problem solved.
Gunslinger tries his ice bullet.
A: I laugh at it because I have acrobatics to soak the hold, go to town on him and spawn with aoe's in fire.
B: Break free's are your friend, it's not a sign of a broken class to have to use them, it's called part of the game.
C: He misses, or I use A or B, lightening clap to stun him, dead gunslinger, aoe'd to death mob pack in the process.
Now if this was my ice/dev?
Smoke grenade the pack, lay caltrops, cloak close to Sapper.
Aim + Bitter freeze Ray sapper (since I know to fire my long animations first, see knowing your powers) use bitter ice blast and if need be ice blast to finish him off.
Freeze ray gunslinger as he bounces a hold off acrobatics again.
Retreat back across caltrops, and if I'm feeling frisky watch remaining minions run into the trip mine present that might be there. Finish them off while gunslinger is held.
Keep gunslinger perma held with both holds as I deploy a gun drone just to be mean, watch him melt with ST chain.
That's before epic pools when I may just feel like an Aim + LRM or then have three holds to make sure practically any mob pack I run across spends most of a fight held and debuffed. And since that blaster has enough recharge bonuses slotted in sets I can get two gun drones out when I really feel mean.
All that aside though if you wanted to talk annoying you should have used operation officers, the stun grenades are 100X worse then the gunslinger holds, and last about three times as long I swear, I bring break frees for them all the time, provided I don't learn that using something like beanbag, suppressive fire, freeze ray, scramble thoughts, cosmic burst, or screech on the mezzer first might be a good idea.
But the biggest problem with your scenario is any other mob pack isn't Malta, you can't just use the (arguably) hardest enemies in the game and point to say "See blasters is broken!"
Any blaster worth his salt with any primary that isn't energy (knockbacks are iffy) or fire (The worst in my personal opinion as it is all damage and no mitigation) Has some means of countering the mezzer before he can even think of mezzing you. And with /EM and power boost your mezz is that much more powerful. Any normal mob type like freaks, council/5th or family? No chance against a skilled blaster.
If you're gonna try to use this to claim blasters are somehow broken, gonna have to do a lot better then that. As an AT they just require a different method of thinking, and yes a bit of skill to play properly. But needing skill doesn't equal "broken"
