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Actually, i'm not certain the [image] tag will work. I'm pretty sure you need to use [img]URL[/img]
Remember, the URL needs to be a direct link to the image, in this case:
http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/...us-d3k5vag.jpg, not the link to the deviant art page.
Nice picture Temperus. -
This caught me off guard the first time too. (I know, don't feed the trolls, but someone else might have run into this problem). Everytime you hit search now it will dispaly a different 50 results, so you can just hit search until you get a set that isn't a full 50 if you want to test how many people are online not hidden. So if you are searching for controllers and there 237 controllers online, the first 4 times you hit search you will get a list of 50 controllers and the 5th time you will get a list of 37.
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Quote:Indeed. I will stick some mention that the default state is twirling idly near the caster somewhere in the power description.Is it stun or kb that prompts it to move on (or both)? Tornado will INDEED return to the caster if it runs out of targets, Many times, I COUNT ON it. Thereby, if it's out of sight and didn't come back, it found something really chewy I didn't expect and then I maneuver to see what's ahead. It's a 'ghetto mapping' tool of sorts.
Quote:My own experience says that tornado simply switches targets regularly. I don't use it on mobs often though, and I'd be seeing similar behavior if it were attacking whatever is nearest at the time or was attacking things that haven't been knocked back recently.
Quote:It might be worth mentioning in this section that the aura works even if there isn't a tornado out at the time. This was something that I wondered about until recently. -
Quote:But will it stay on a target until the target is mezzed?? My inclination is to say no. Fortunately, this is the easier premise to test. If one immobilizes a target, and then summons tornado on the target, tornado should never leave to chase another target, because in order for that target to get stunned, tornado would need to stop attacking the target so the terminate condition would never be met. This does not sound accurate to me, but I will test (probably won't have time until Monday though).This would match enemy AI that will mezz something and then move onto another target if possible.
The harder question to test is if Tornado changes targets after an enemy is stunned and I think it would be almost impossible to differentiate what we know happens, "when tornado stops attacking a target it will get stunned" from the possible, "when a target is stunned tornado will stop attacking it". If someone has an experiment that will clearly differentiate between those two situation I'm happy to try it. Otherwise, I think including anything to that effect in the guide would be claiming to know more than we do.
I think that is certainly likely to be one factor in the AI's decision to choose a target, but I don't know where that stands in relation to proximity concerns (both to tornado and the user) or any sort of aggro metric that tornado might use, so I'm extremely hesitant to make any such claim in the guide. -
Quote:Trying to test Mob AI is something that is remarkably hard to do because there are so many factors that come into it. Thus I tried to keep my discussion of Tornado AI limited to things that 1) I could actually test quite thoroughly (like leash distance) or 2) leave vague enough that no one could feel that I had been dishonest about Tornado's behavior. I would welcome your testing results, but probably won't incorporate them into the guide.My memory may be a bit fuzzy, but I recall Tornado seeming to prefer to disorient a mob and then come back to defend me if something else came up and tried to rip my face off. I'll try to test it again this weekend, since it's something I see a lot if I'm soloing.
Quote:I've heard this before, though never seen it myself. Supposedly, Tornado stays on an enemy until it is disoriented, then moves on to another enemy.
Also a mob cannot become disoriented while tornado is attacking it, so if a mob becomes disoriented that means to some extent that tornado has already moved on (or has just been too slow in catching up to it). -
Indeed. One disadvantage of this style of guide is that it does not lend itself particularly well to tactics that rely on multiple powers. I try to touch on a few specifics (The hurricane-tornado pseudo hold both in this section and back in Hurricane) but include too many and things quickly become even more unwieldy than they already are. I think a mention of that could be fairly easily incorporated into the hurricane section with a brief cross reference here.
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Appendix: Tornado
The majority of the appendix questions have already been answered with respect to other powers, and the link should take you to the appropriate section where that aspect is explained in greater detail.
What do you mean when you say an Archvillain's "Purple Triangles"?
Archvillains have a special power, often called PToD (purple triangles of doom) that gives them additional protection (50 points) to hold, knockback, confuse, repel, disorient, and fear (really terrorize) but not sleep or immobilize. The triangles go through a period of pointing upwards (thought to be 50 seconds) when this additonal protection is in effect, followed by a down period (thought to be 25 seconds) during which when they lose this protection, and have standard, magnitude 3, boss level protection. You can see a picture of the purple triangles, here. -
Tornado (Basic Version):
Tornado is a pseudopet (meaning that it can't be targeted, killed, or controlled by you) that lasts 30 seconds chasing enemies dealing damage, knocking them back, stunning them, and debuffing defense. Tornado tends to switch rapidly from target to target blowing around everything in its path, and also causes fear which causes things to run.
Should I take this power? 4/5
Tornado is one of Storm Summoning's more situational powers. Because it causes knockback it can be rather chaos inducing and may not always be appreciated on teams. Tornado can be a little like having a Storm Defender following you with Gale on auto (which we learned back in the Gale section was not a good idea.) Thus this is not a power that I would use in every group on every spawn. However, the knockback and stun can work well as a distraction and makes for a good panic button if you or your team has over aggro'd. Tornado also shines against single hard targets (In particular against Arch villains since they aren't susceptible to its knockback) since Tornado can then deal all of its substantial damage against a single target. Also note that Tornado is auto-hit, so it doesn't matter how much defense an enemy has, Tornado will always connect. This makes it excellent for finishing off Paragon Protectors as well.
How should I slot it? (basic version)
The slotting for Tornado depends a lot on how you use it. If you find you only use it for AV fights and bosses, then my recommendation is to focus on recharge and damage to make it really pack a punch. If your recharge is high enough you can have multiple tornados out at once, so more recharge simply means more damage. See the advanced section for information on just how much recharge is required.
If you find that you tend to use Tornado as a control power with some frequency, it may be tempting to stick some stun duration in there, but note that the stun is only 2 seconds in length, so the stun duration won't buy you much. An extra second may be worthwhile for you though. If you find that you use Tornado regularly and not just on special occasions, then you will almost certainly want to invest a slot in endurance reduction since Tornado is one of your more expensive powers.
Although it may be tempting to slot Tornado for defense debuff, you already have such a massive defense debuff in Freezing Rain that it is usually more beneficial to enhance the other aspects of Tornado. As always, when slotting remember not to slot more than three single origin enhancements worth of any one attribute due to enhancement diversification.
Tornado (Advanced Version):
What are Tornado's Stats? (For Defenders, although they are the same for everyone with Tornado):
Available Level: 26
Activation Time: 1.17s
Recharge Time: 1m
Endurance Cost: 20.80
Accuracy: 1.00x (You will never fail to summon Tornado, and the tornado itself is autohit)
Power Type: Click
Target Type: Location
Power Range: 60.00 ft.(This is the range at which you can summon Tornado)
Effect Area: Location
Summoned Tornado for 30 seconds@lvl 50(only damage and knockup/back magnitude change with level):Accuracy:1.30X (Again this is a misnomer, Tornado is autohit)
Umm...right...so what's it do?
Power Type:Auto (This power will go off every .5 seconds)
Target Type:Self Effect Area:AoE -- 7.00 ft. radius (5 targets max)
Attack Types:AoE
effects:
6.23 magnitude knockup on target
Accuracy:1.40X(again, a bogus number...it's autohit)
12.46 magnitude knockback on target
6.67 smashing damage on target after 1.00s delay (400 damage total).
2.00 magnitude stun on target after 2.50s delay for 2 seconds
-15.00% defense on target for 8 seconds
Power Type:Auto
Target Type:Self Effect Area: AoE -- 20.00 ft. radius (16 targets max)
effects:
10.00 magnitude fear on target Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
When you use Tornado it will summon a windy vortex to follow you around for 30 seconds. Tornado cannot be targeted, and thus cannot be buffed or attacked (thus why it's called a pseudo pet). This vortex will chase after enemies and every half a second its ability will trigger hitting all (up to 5) enemies within 7 feet of it and knocking them back and up, applying a 15% defense debuff, and dealing a small amount of damage. Note that these effects do not stack with themselves so subsequent attacks of the tornado will refresh the time on the defense debuff, but will still only be magnitude 15% defense debuff. However, the debuff from multiple tornados can stack.
The stun is a little bit a funny in Tornado. note that the stun is applied after a 2.5 second delay. Well each attack of tornado will refresh the timer on that 2.5 seconds. Therefore, enemies do not get stunned until Tornado has stopped attacking them for 2.5 seconds, at which point they will be stunned for 2 seconds. If tornado expires while attacking a target, that target will never get stunned. The purpose of the stun appears to be primarily so that enemies are unable to attack you in the time it takes for tornado to chase them down and continue to knock them around.
If you can get Tornado to stay on a single target (perhaps because there is only one target left), then you can actually deal a full 400 damage (unenhanced) to that target over the 30 second Tornado is out. When there are multiple targets alive, Tornado can be more like a scrapper with attention deficit disorder who gets a couple attacks on an enemy and then starts chasing after another one.
What does 2 magnitude disorient and 6.23/12.46 knockback/up mean?
A magnitude 2 disorient means that Tornado will stun most minions. Lieutenants typically require a magnitude 3 stun and bosses a magnitude 4 stun. For information on status effect magnitude see the appendix(associated with Thunder Clap). For information about knockback/up see the appendix(associated with Freezing Rain).
Awesome I didn't know Tornado caused Fear! Why doesn't it accept Fear enhancements?
Don't get your hopes up. What is often called fear in the game, and what fear enhancements enhance, is actually called terrorize. Terrorize is the shaking state in which enemies can only return fire if they are attacked. Originally this did not exist in the game and all abilities that now cause terrorize, caused fear, which made enemies run away. However, players weren't particularly fond of that mechanic so many powers that had Fear as their main effect had it changed to terrorize. However, some powers (Tornado, and Lightning Storm in particular) retained the original fear. This means that they tend to make enemies run away. Of course the AI mechanics in this game are complicated and the desire to run away will often be overpowered by the desire to attack, but this does mean that tornado tends to scatter enemies more than just its knockback.
Strategy:
What do you mean when you say, "Use Tornado as a panic button?"
Tornado tends to cause a lot of chaos as it sends enemies flying everywhere, stunning them, and causing them to flee. This means that on a well oiled team, Tornado may slow the team down by spreading the enemies out more making it hard for your teammates to hit a large group with their area of effect powers. Even if you are solo, Tornado will throw enemies out of Freezing Rain and make it harder for [LINK to come]Lightning Storm to hit multiple enemies. Therefore you probably don't want to use Tornado in every fight.
However, enemies that are flying through the air, stunned, or running, won't be attacking you or your team. Thus, Tornado makes it excellent power if you "panic" because your team is being overwhelmed and you need to buy them some time, or there's an ambush that comes out of nowhere that needs to be stopped while you finish off the last three groups the over eager (pick your favorite archetype) aggro'd.
How can I control my Tornado better?
Although Tornado is uncontrollable it will nominally follow you around and has a "leash" of around 150 feet. This means that if you need to get Tornado to stop attacking something (perhaps because you accidentally summoned it, and now it's causing too much chaos) you can move 150 feet away from a target and after a second, tornado will stop attacking and come spin by you. Note that Tornado's aggro radius (the distance at which it will start attacking things) is much smaller, at only about 40 feet.
Why does Tornado have such a bad reputation? (a mini history lesson)
I actually don't think the bad reputation is as prevalent anymore, but for those of with long memories: back when the game came out, Tornado had no "leash". Enemies would have fear applied to them and start running, and Tornado would start chasing after enemies, plowing through groups and groups of enemies towards the back of the map. Since the enemies can't attack Tornado their aggro was automatically transferred to you, and because there was no aggro cap, the next thing you know, an entire map full of enemies is charging at you, thanks to that little funnel cloud.
Currently in the game Tornado mostly gets a bad rap from Storm Defenders that don't think before they use it. Tornado is not a good opening move as it scatters enemies that are already clumped to make the most of AoE attacks. For melee toons, it can be like having a Storm Defender following them around with Gale on auto (reminder: that's a bad idea if you like your teammates).
I love Tornado, but I hate the knockback, is there anything I can do?
Well, sort of. There are a number of powers in the game which cause -KB, meaning that enemies under this are much harder to be knocked back (in general it becomes virtually impossible). Unfortunately of those open to a Storm Defender there are:Dual Pistols: Suppressive Fire (single target hold if incendiary or toxic ammo are loaded)
So any Storm Defender can take Electric Mastery and get Electric Fence. Unfortunately these are all single target powers, so they don't help making tornado less chaotic in a big fight, but they may be able to keep a single target from running and being thrown all over. Unfortunately, since AVs have high hold protection, only Electric Fence can be used to stop the archvillain from running, allowing tornado to deal its full damage (Although on a team this isn't usually a problem, due to aggro mechanics and other immobilizes on the team). An archvillain has magnitude 3 protection to all mezzes when their purple triangles are down (meaning 2 applications of Electric Fence are required) and an additional magnitude 50 protection to everything except immobilize and sleep when their purple triangles are up. If you don't know what I mean when I say, "Purple Triangles", see the appendix.
Ice Blast: Freeze Ray, Bitter Freeze Ray (single target holds)
Electric Mastery: Electric Fence (single target immobilize)
The majority of the powers that suppress knockback are Controller (and dominator) immobilizes. In particular:Earth Control: Stone Prison, Fossilize and Stone Cages (single target and AoE immobilizes, and single target hold)
This means that if you are playing on a team with a controller (or happen to be a controller) that spams one of these powers, then tornado can be used as a straight damage power that won't cause chaos because enemies won't be thrown all over the place and can't run. Note however, that Tornado still likes to jump between targets fairly rapidly, so the damage it deals will be reduced due to its travel time between targets.
Electric Control: Electric Fence, but NOT Chain Fences (only single target immobilize)
Fire Control: Ring of Fire, Fire Cages (single target and AoE immobilizes)
Gravity Control: Gravity Distortion, Gravity Distortion Field (single target and AoE holds, NOT the immobilizes)
Ice Control: Chilblain, Block of Ice, Frost Bite, Glacier (single target and AoE immobilize and holds)
Plant Control: Entangle, Roots (single target and AoE immobilizes)
Other powers include:
Trick Arrow: Entangling Arrow (single target immobilize)
How can I use Tornado to neutralize bosses?
This is probably my favorite trick in the Storm Defender's bag. It's theHurricane, Tornado pseudo-hold. You can pin an enemy in a corner using Hurricane (already very safe due to Hurricane's to-hit debuff) and then summon a tornado underneath the enemy. If the boss is the only enemy around, Tornado will throw the boss up in the air, but hurricane will make sure that the boss only flies into the corner, which means that the boss is still over Tornado and thus gets knocked up again. The boss will be continuously be knocked up and back, making it almost impossible for him to get a shot off (if by some stroke of luck he does, his accuracy is already floored). This technique also has the advantage of keeping the boss in one place so that Tornado can deal almost all of its 400 damage to the enemy.
I hear people say Tornado is great for Archvillain fights, why?
In Archvillain fights there is usually only one target for tornado to focus on, so it will not be distracted by other targets. Additionally archvillains have knockback protection, meaning that tornado can't fling them somewhere and then have to chase them. This means that you get the full damage potential of Tornado on the archvillain. That's 400 damage unenhanced over its duration, or 13.37 damage per second unenhanced. At the enhancement diversification cap that's 26 damage per second from a single tornado (if the enemy has no resistance to smashing damage). For comparison, a level 50 archvillain has a regeneration rate of 95 hp/sec, so tornado is effectively a 27% regeneration debuff. This additional damage will be essential if you're going to solo an archvillain.
On another note, yes archvillains have a tendency to run from tornado but on a team this should be completely offset by the aggro drawn by the tank or other folks attacking the archvillain, and can be prevented by an immobilize as well (archvillains only have magnitude 6 immobilize protection) so you in general you should not be concerned about an archvillain running on account of Tornado.
Those damage numbers are SWEET!! so if I just pop a bunch of reds, Tornado should be INCREDIBLE?
Well, no. Unfortunately tornado does not inherit buffs from you. This means that tornado does no additional damage when you pop reds, when you have just used aim, power build up, or are under the effect of Fulcrum Shift. Just be happy that Tornado can do what it does.
Why is Tornado great on Paragon Protectors, and other hard to hit targets?
Tornado is auto-hit. This means that it doesn't have to make a hit check to find out if it affects an enemy. Thus it doesn't matter how much defense an enemy has, Tornado will do damage. On enemies like paragon protectors, often they just have a sliver of health left and tornados damage alone is sufficient to kill them. Also note that when tornado deals damage, it applies a debuff defense, making it easier for everyone else to hit. Note that oftentimes this defense debuff will have a limited impact due to debuff debuff resistance in some of the god mode powers enemies use, or the power providing a significant defense buffer (much more defense than is truly necessary).
Tornado knocked an enemy into a cave wall, and now it's stuck!!! What should I do?
The code for dealing with this situation is much better than it used to be, and if you step away from the enemy it is likely to pop out of the wall. If not, because tornado has that 7 foot area of effect, it can often attack things stuck in the wall that you can't, so just summon a second Tornado to get it out of the wall. If all else fails you can always submit a petition and wait for a GM to come help you, but I have never had to resort to this. Some combination of Hurricane, Tornado, and Freezing Rain and waiting 10 seconds, manages to get the enemy out of the wall.
How should I slot it? (Advanced Version):
Why Can't I slot Accuracy in Tornado?
As mentioned up in the strategy section, Tornado is auto hit. So adding additional accuracy would not affect how often it hits (always). It is possible to slot IOs in Tornado that have an accuracy component, but be aware that those aspects of the IOs simply do nothing. So an Accuracy/Stun IO in Tornado is really just half (more like 65%) of a stun IO.
Can I stun Lieutenants by slotting stun?
No. Slotting for Stun enhances the duration of the stun, but not it's magnitude. With the exception of dominator's domination, and the Controller's chance to overpower, there are no powers in the game that increase the magnitude of a status effect. People sometimes claim that power boost or power build up can have this effect; Those people are wrong, ignore them.
Isn't there an invention origin enhancement that provides -knockback to reduce Tornado's knockback?
No, there isn't. Enhancements that provide knockback protection say, " reduces knockback effects by -4" but this reduces the effect of knockbacks applied to you making you harder to knockback, not the knockback of your powers. To understand what this means, see the appendix (from Freezing Rain).
How many Tornados can I have out at once?
For some reason this is another one that seems to get people confused. I once had to prove to forum users that it was possible to have multiple tornados out by posting a screenshot. Anyone who tells you it isn't possible just hasn't had enough recharge or wasn't paying attention.
The below recharge numbers are the total recharge (from enhancements, buffs like hasten, and IO set bonuses required.) For the purposes of keeping things simple I have ignored Arcanatime, if you don't know what that is, dont' worry, it's irrelevant. If you are curious then you can learn more about it here.
108% recharge; Tornado will recharge in 28.83 seconds: at this level you can have 1 tornado out all the time, anything higher and you will have some overlap with 2 tornados.
334% recharge; Tornado will recharge in 13.83 seconds: at this level you can have 2 tornadoes out all the time, anything higher and you will have some overlap with 3 tornadoes. Note, however that this is not a level of recharge you are likely to achieve on your own without outside buffs. It is not possible to have 3 tornadoes out all the time, as the recharge cap is 400%.
How do Procs work in Tornado?
Procs in Tornado work the same way they do inFreezing Rain. That is that every 10 seconds the proc will have a chance to fire on all enemies in tornadoes radius (that's 7 meters and up to 5 enemies). If Tornado isn't near any enemies at the 10 second mark, then the proc will do nothing. Because Tornado is auto-hit, the procs will always have a chance to fire on an enemy if it is in range. Although Tornado lasts 30 seconds, there are only 3 opportunities for the proc to fire. The proc will fire once when Tornado is cast, once at the 10 second mark, and once at the 20 second mark, but will expire before the 30 second tic would have a chance to fire.
Cool, should I slot an Achilles' Heel?
I have mixed feelings on this one. The Achilles' Heel proc has a 20% chance provide a 20% resistance debuff for 10 seconds. The Achilles' heel proc will have the same three chances to fire as every other proc. However, note that this proc will not stack with itself. So multiple tornados cannot produce a 40% damage debuff and a proc in Freezing Rain and Tornado will not combine to be 40% either. Also, note that if Tornado is not in contact with the a target at the 10 second mark (because it just knocked it back, or the target is fleeing), then the proc will not fire. You don't get to make up the chance at a later time. Because of this, I generally choose not to slot the proc in Tornado, but if you have an immobilize, and fight a lot of archvillains, this can be a good choice. As we saw in Freezing Rain for this to be better than a damage proc, you need to be able to deal 360 damage in 10 seconds, which against a single hard target is easily doable.
What about damage procs or Soulbound Allegiance: Chance for Build up?
In general no to both. Both procs will increase Tornado's damage, but not enough to make it worthwhile. Soulbound Allegiance provides a 16.6% chance for an 80% damage boost for 5 seconds. That means on average you will get an additonal 26 damage from Tornado (0.166*3*6.67*10*0.8) or a 6.25% damage increase. Of course the Soulbound proc will also have a chance to proc on you when you summon Tornado, but Tornado is on a long enough recharge timer this probably isn't particularly significant for your build.
In terms of the damage procs, at level 50 the damage procs have a 20% to deal ~72 damage on each proc tic, meaning that it will deal an additional (72*3*.2) = 43.2 damage or an 11% damage increase. (for proc damage at other levels see here) The damage procs that can be slotted in Tornado are:Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage
You can see that until you're at the enhancement diversification damage cap, it is generally more beneficial to slot Tornado for damage than it is to fill it with procs. Especially since the numbers provided assume constant contact with an enemy and if the Tornado is between enemies for one of the proc firings, then these numbers go WAY down.
Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Energy Damage
Shield Breaker: Chance for Lethal Damage
How about pet resistance and defense auras?
On a defender unless you took a villain patron pool and thus have a pet, or have lore pets, these IOs are wasted as you have nothing that will benefit from this. Storm Summonings two pseudopets, Tornado and Lightning Storm, are untargetable and thus do not need defense or resistance.
On another AT that has pets, these might be a worthwhile choice to improve the survivability of your minions. The IOs all provide you with an "aura" that will grant a defense or resistance bonus to your pets (not other players or other people's pets) when they are within 40 feet of you:Edict of the Master: 5% defense bonus
How about Razzle Dazzle: Chance for Immobilize; Stupefy: Chance for Knockback; Absolute Amazement: Chance for ToHit Debuff; Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge; Analyze Weakness: Chance for +ToHit?
Call to arms: 5% defense bonus
Sovereign Right: 10% resistance bonus
Expedient Reinforcement: 10% resistance bonus
Commanding Presence: 10% resistance to taunt and placate (unless you PvP, this is next to useless. The only enemy I am aware of that can placate is the arachnos bane spider, and 10% isn't worthwhile resistance anyway).
Please don't. The procs don't fire often enough to make any of these effects beneficial (and some are broken). Although enemies may be immobilized, KB isn't suppressed, so they are still knocked all over the place. Tornado already does knockback and knockup so a chance for even more is pointless. The to hit debuff is currently broken in PvE and won't fire, and even if it did, you already have Hurricane, which will have floored everything's to hit anyway. If Hurricane doesn't floor its to hit, then the enemies resistance is high enough that the proc wouldn't make a difference. The force feedback proc will not affect Tornado, and will only have a chance to fire on you when you cast the power. This is not often enough to make it worth slotting in my opinion. The +to-hit will only have a chance to effect you when you summon Tornado, but Freezing Rain and Tornado should already have solved most of your to-hit issues anyway.
What IO sets should I slot in Tornado?
One of the most popular options is to slot 4 expedient reinforcements for the 6.25% recharge bonus, or the full 6 to also get the 3.13% ranged defense bonus. If going for a high defense build, Blood Mandates can also be appealing for the 3.75% AoE and Ranged damage bonuses. However, Blood Mandates provide no recharge for Tornado, so in general I would not recommend going that route.
There are lots of great ways to Frankenslot (pick and choose from IO sets without worrying about set bonuses) Tornado to maximize Damage/Recharge/Endurance, and still get some stun or defense debuff out of it. If there isn't a bonus you are looking for, Tornado can be an excellent place for Hamidon Enhancements. For example, Peroxisome for damage/mez, or Enzymes for defense debuff/endurance, so that you can slot the less significant aspects of the power, without having to significantly take away from an important aspect. -
Originally I was going to hold off on posting this until I had the Lightning Storm section done as well, but I figured I wouldn't make folks wait any longer. The final section will be done by the end of the summer, and then I will go through and edit based on folks recommendations and post the final guide in the guides section. Since I missed my original GR goal, my new target will be to get the guide finished by the time City of Heroes: Freedom launches.
Some background on the guide:
Back in 2009 I started working on this guide and have been expanding it power by power over the last 2 years. The original target of the guide was for relatively experienced players, but those that didn't have a firm grasp of underlying game mechanics. The goal of this guide was also to be one stop shopping for any questions you might have about Storm Summoning so it is quite comprehensive (I hope). Based on feedback I have modified the structure of the guide to attempt to make it more accessible to new players, although it now has a strange combination of treating you like you know a lot and like you know nothing.
All feedback is welcome and I am particularly interested if there are any questions you have about Tornado that you don't see answered, or information that you believe I have wrong. I like to think about this guide a little as a cumulative effort of the community (although my opinion will trump yours). Feel free to point out typos but don't spend time proofreading as things may change in the final draft (Early sections have already been substantially rewritten).
The other sections of the guide can be found at:
Gale
O2 Boost
Snow Storm
Steamy Mist
Freezing Rain
Hurricane
Thunder Clap
And without further ado, the guide! And the guide should now be posted with all links active. If you think there's a link missing, or one of the links is broken, please let me know. -
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Hey Jericho,
the data link to your build is broken so I can't open it in Mids, but a couple thoughts glancing at it.
Although Microfilaments work in Snow Storm, this is a known exploit. It seems unlikely to get fixed anytime soon, but use at your own risk. There are some other Hami-O exploits here, but like I said, they're not likely to change anytime soon.
Steamy Mist: I would not use the +to-hit there, it will provide you almost no benefit since 1) you are likely to have high accuracy already from set bonuses and 2) Freezing Rain means that anything you weren't accuracy capped for you will be.
Hasten: That last recharge is going to buy you very little. Even if it gets you perma hasten, I wouldn't do it.
Freezing Rain: More recharge! Even with the spiritual alpha, I would slot more!! You want every chance to fire off that set of damage procs that you can get.
I feel like there has to be a better way to get that last set bonus than kinetic combat in brawl, but without access to the datachunk, I won't be able to search for one.
Stamina: with 2 slots you are better off going Performance Shifter pure endurance, and +endurance.
Quote:Alas, no, definitely not. I only wish I had that sort of talent. It was drawn by Wassy (link in my sig) who was a long time player. She had to stop playing on account of the time pressures of returning to art school, so I doubt she's taking commissions at the moment.PZ Dreggynn, I LOVE your eveter,the ert iz beeutiful, did you drew it yourzelf?
If you're intersted you can find other art that I've commissioned (often from CoH players) here or on deviant art here -
This build is okay, but unless you go get the cardiac for your incarnate slot, you're going to run into endurance issues. Storm has a lot of high endurance cost powers, and you will be running a lot of toggles. Often times, this can be offset by taking an endurance recovery power from an epic, but because you went psychic for the Coercive Persuasion bonus in World of Confusion, you don't have that benefit.
I would drop the psychic mastery pool for an option that gives you some sort of recovery. Personally, I like conserve power, but any of them will do. I know you don't want to lose the 5% Coercive Persuasion bonus, but things really won't be that bad. You don't yet have a steadfast protection 3% defense IO anywhere, so stick a slot in Steamy Mist or Tough for that, and then you're practically there even with the lost bonus. I also suspect there's probably a better way to get that last defense bonus than with the 2 slots in gale, but that will depend on what you replace psychic mastery with.
The only other serious issue I notice is your Freezing Rain slotting. You want as much recharge in Freezing Rain as you can get (up to the ED cap) and 16% recharge is not going to cut it. Having 80+% recharge in Freezing Rain is far more important than the 6% recharge bonus you will lose. Also if you want to deal damage with Freezing Rain, you should slot it with damage procs, not for damage, because its damage is minuscule to begin with. The guide in my sig has a lot of information on Freezing Rain to guide you through that process (note your numbers are a little lower because you're a corruptor).
Hope that helps. -
Quote:I'm certainly not the first person to say that, and I don't think I said to use Hurricane as an panic button, but rather that it isn't always needed. You can turn on hurricane preemptively if you know a mob is large, have a mezzer you need to take out of the action, a boss to pin a corner, or any other number of reasons. But if you're going up against a small group, or on a large team with lots of buffs, the largest debuff in the game doesn't matter because you really don't need the extra defense. It's all about knowing when you need the power and when you don't.Wow, never heard that before. Seriously? Don't use Hurricane all the time, but make sure you use Steamy Mist? You do realise you told people to use Hurricane as a Ole ***** power right? It's the largest debuff in the game and you tell people not to use it over Steamy Mist...lol And you do realize you are so for defense but yet you tell people not to use Hurricane which stacks perfectly with defense, and say that resistance isn't the way to go, but yet you tell people to use Steamy Mist, wow this is really getting interesting now. Little contradictory there don't ya think?
In addition Hurricane can easily hurt more than it helps. Hurricane will scatter mobs making it harder to keep them debuffed and breaking up groupings that are well suited to AoE. When I see a Storm Defender that keeps hurricane on all the time, I usually worry a little that they don't really know what they are doing. (Yes, there are folks that can do an excellent job running in circles keeping mobs herded, but that's a small minority of players.)
On the other hand, Steamy Mist has no comparable tradeoff between chaos and buff/protection. So, no, I don't see that as contradictory at all. To me it's the same things as saying, "Damage is good, but please don't spam tornado all the time"
Quote:But I've said all I'm going to say as it seems no matter what I say or suggest, you will try to counter it like we are playing a tennis match.
I had not taken a serious look at the endurance merits of the build, because these days I use cardiac, and forget sometimes lots of people aren't necessarily intending to bother with any incarnate content on their characters. So I think it was very helpful for you to point that out as an area of concern. This way people looking at the thread can note that, and decide if the build is going to helpful to them or not.
For me, the point of a thread like this, is to try to provide the best advice we can, and improve builds. Simply calling a build gimped without any further guidance or advice is counterproductive to that aim, so I did goad you a little bit to provide more concrete evidence and I think your view point became clearer and more helpful because of it. It was not my intention to make you feel antagonized, and I'm sorry that my goading had that effect. -
Quote:Yay! Now you're starting to provide helpful feedback! This is the first time you have mentioned that the problem you see with the builds is endurance management. Now perhaps this is what you meant when you said, "middle defense build", ("I would slot more endurance in the toggles instead of defense or drop the defense toggles altogether because you won't have the endurance to run them all the time") but that was certainly not at all obvious to me, and I suspect not to other readers as well.For example, you can't sit here and tell me this build's end recovery of .85 is very good and doesn't gimp the build. Even turning off Snow Storm yields a 1.21 end recovery which still is very very low and that is if you have the four main accolades to give you more end recovery, otherwise its only at .89
But back to your main point. This build will also have an additional .2 end/sec from the performance shifter proc and if powersink can hit 2 targets: (47*2-16)/ 64.8 = 1.2 endurance/sec (this number obviously may be lower, as you may not need all the endurance). So things aren't quite as dire as you make them out to be.
In addition with this build I would not recommend running hurricane all the time. You can pretty much keep enemies at range using Lightning Storm and Freezing Rain, and Hurricane can be used more as a panic button. (that provides an extra .37 end/sec) Snow Storm is another power I would probably only use if I thought a fight was going to get out of hand since you already have such a massive slow in Freezing Rain. In small size fights, I find mobs are usually dead so quickly Snow Storm is of limited use (that's another .37 end/sec).
Could the build benefit from some more endurance in charged armor, weave, and tough? certainly. If the user found endurance management to be a problem, I would probably drop the stun/Range from tornado and put an endurance reducer in weave, and drop a slot from aim to put an endurance reducer in tough. And probably consider going cardiac for my alpha slot if I was going to incarnate the build.
But do I think this build is gimped? No
If Hurricane was left on all the time, yes, this build would have serious endurance trouble, but an important part of Storm Summoning is knowing when to use each of your powers. (For the record, Steamy Mist should always be on except for screenshots and certain escort situations)
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Quote:I aqree with not gimping builds for defense (slotting 6 Pacing of the Turtle being the most common offender), but these builds aren't gimped. If you are calling a build that doesn't maximize resistance "gimped" then you have a very loose definition of gimped. These build will be very survivable in solo situations and perform well on teams. More recharge would be beneficial, but then the price point starts to rise.I never said defense is a bad way to go, but it's not worth gimping a build as some of the builds in this post have done to try to achieve soft capped defense.
Quote:But again, everyone has their own play style and not everyone is a good of a player as the next. I know what my stormer can handle and the extra defense isn't needed for me. But if people feel more comfortable gimping their end recovery or resistance to pick up defense with low hit points and think thats the way to go, then by all means do what you want. I'm only voicing my opinion and giving advise from my experience. -
Quote:Hmm, I think you misread that. Because I find it highly unlikely that you think you'd die more if you had more defense than you have currently with your current resistance, thus the "on top of what you have".Quote:
As tough as you are now, Beef Cake, imagine how tough you would be with 45% ranged defense on top of what you have.
The nice thing about resistance is that there really isn't a whole lot one can do to build for it. Sure a few more slots could be stuck in tough, take the armor, but there aren't significant set bonuses that are worth pursuing on the resistance front. Thus, the choice of defense and resistance really isn't an either or proposition, it can be both. Granted, it's much easier to use both if you can leverage ribosomes for the resistance powers, but even without that, not many slots need to be used to get the majority of the resistance benefit you would get.
That said, I would still choose defense over resistance. Having 65% resistance instead of 55% resistance is going to make you only marginally more survivable. Having 45% defense instead of 35% will make a huge difference (your experience not withstanding). I would still spend those extra slots in defense.
I'll be honest, I used to side with you and think that defense was wasted on a Storm Defender because of Hurricane. I would generally play +2x5 and have an easy time. Well, I finally broke down over a year ago and went with a defense build. Now with the help of Clarion, +3x8 even Malta and Carnies are straightforward(they used to require several break frees for emergencies). Granted, my defense build has more resistance than your resistance build does, but I'm fairly certain I could not manage that with resistance alone.
The real tradeoff in slotting is generally between defense and recharge, not defense and resistance, and there play style matters a lot as does pricing. Since high recharge builds get pricey very quickly.
And just to be clear, I don't think defense is needed on a Storm Defender, but its not a bad way to go, especially if one doesn't want to spend the influence on a high recharge build. -
Quote:In my experience soft capped ranged defense on a Storm Defender makes a HUGE difference. Especially pre clarion, because it only takes one mez or one sapper to hit you before you get them debuffed and you pretty much crumble. As others have said I would support taking the resistance shield over shocking bolt since you already have two holds you can stack, but I would not give up a single point of ranged defense.Another thing people tend to forget is, Hurricane is a huge debuff, so capped defense isn't all that important on a stormer. Yes it helps, but not needed. 15-20% defense will be more than enough stacked with the tohit debuff from Hurricane.
I would highly recommend a high resistance / mediocre defense build. You will find you are much more survivable. I have this build and I never find myself in trouble and I am only running 18% defense, but I'm running 70% resistance to S/L/E and 44% to Fire & Cold. Also not to mention plenty of KB protection and very high recharge.
Hurricane is great if you're taking on small mob sizes, and is why I recommend not building for smashing/lethal defense, but as you start running at +6,+7,+8, it becomes more challenging to keep all of the enemies debuffed while not completely ruining any sort of grouping you had. Then you run into even greater trouble in rooms where mobs are so close that you can't circle one without hitting another.
As tough as you are now, Beef Cake, imagine how tough you would be with 45% ranged defense on top of what you have. On my survival build I run 45% defense ranged (and energy/neg incidentally) and 75% smash/lethal/energy resistance, and if I had to give one of them up, I would choose the resistance in a heartbeat. Also high recharge builds tend to be more expensive than high defense builds, so if you're not going to break the bank, it often makes more sense to build for defense. -
Quote:I think you're thinking about this the wrong way Psyrene. Using logic that says that .07 end/second is too small would also mean that that an extra 20 health is too small to notice as well. Of course all of those little bonuses add up.I get that drayggnn says that stamina's "optimal" slotting is the way you have it, but removing the plain jane end io and putting in one more performance shifter gets you +hp and only drops your recovery by .07per second, now if you can see the difference of 7 hundredths and don't want the extra hp then leave the end io in there.
I should have been clear earlier that when I say optimal, I mean optimal slotting for endurance recovery. It's better to think about the decision as a choice between a 3.6% recovery bonus and a 1.87% hit point bonus. On a Storm Defender, I would choose the almost purple level 3.6% recovery bonus. As always it's a playstyle choice, but I would take all the recovery I can get on Storm. If you find you have no endurance issues, by all means take the hit point bonus. -
Quote:I wouldn't necessarily drop any slots, from sleet, but I would get the recharge higher. Recharge is a lot more important that slow or defense debuff in Sleet because the power will stack with itself, and is bugged so that you won't get the full effect. (Read my guide under Freezing Rain for details. Sleet is exactly the same as Freezing Rain for Corruptors, so the debuff numbers in the guide will be different, but otherwise, everything is the same). There is no purple damage proc that can be slotted in sleet (Ragnarok is a knockdown, not a damage proc, and is useless), again I would refer you to the guide in my sig for guidance on choosing procs. But I wouldn't start proccing out Freezing Rain until you had at least 2 IO's worth of recharge.Personally, i wouldn't slot sleet for slow, you already have decnt slow and good knockdown in it, and can couple that with the slow in ice storm, and the def debuff isnt to handy either, tough that's discussable. That said, i would drop 1 enhancement from sleet(slow or def debuff), and replace the other with either another recharge io or a damage io (if you want a high damage io, you could pick the purple damage io, that one's a couple of % higher than a normal damage io)
Quote:If you then would put the slot you removed from sleet in artic fog, you are effectivly softcapped, then you can use barrier more as a panic button, as which i find it handier.
I would also probably try to get some knockback protection in there. I would definitely put a Blessing of the Zephyr, KB protection in Superspeed and might even consider pulling another slot from one of the shields for a second KB proc in Arctic Fog.
One final thought. Although it doesn't matter that much with heatloss, with 2 slots invested in Stamina/Health, optimal slotting for endurance recovery would be The Numina and Miracle unique and health, a perfomance shifter endurance, and +end in Stamina. But with heat loss that's sort of irrelevant, and you can stay with the cheaper sets. Alternatively, you could also choose to steal lots from here to stick other places. Just 2 slots in stamina, and the Miracle in Health. -
You are SO close to being soft capped to ranged, I would go for the 6 lockdowns in Freeze Ray for the 3.75% ranged defense bonus and you are set. You will find that to be MUCH more beneficial than the 7.5% recharge bonus. I would probably drop the 6th positron's blast from Ice Storm and Blizzard (get rid of the damage/range since the range won't make much difference, and you're already well over the ED damage cap).
Depending on your endurance management and how often you use Snow Storm you may find the endurance IO to be better. Remember Snow Storm + Freezing Rain already puts enemies way over the slow cap, so slotting extra slow in Snow Storm is not often beneficial (although if you team a lot, the faster recharge can be nice).
In Frost Breath I would probably swap the acc/end/endurance for the damage proc
Long term, if you continue playing this character you will want to work on swapping out your serendipities, and defense IOs for Luck of the Gamblers. (They're expensive but that extra recharge is worth it).
In Freezing Rain I would drop the Lady Grey: Defense Debuff for an Achille's heel proc or a damage proc. Remember, if you really need that extra defense debuff to punch through something, you have tornado.
With three slots in Stamina, optimal slotting is 1 Performance Shifter endurance, 1 Performance Shifter +endurance proc, and 1 pure Endurance IO. If you want to keep the set bonus, at least swap out one of them for the proc. (The proc is actually equivalent to ~12% recovery bonus, and if you have no additional endurance, is actually optimal slotting for 1 slot in stamina.)
Otherwise this looks reasonable for a build that's not breaking the bank. -
don't have mids at the moment, so just some preliminary thoughts glancing over the build.:
I would put more recharge in Freezing Rain. I would probably find a couple more slots to put in there, but if not I would sacrifice defense debuff in favor of recharge.
Regardless of your playstyle, you will almost certainly find a damage proc more valuable in Freezing Rain than Hurricane, and unless you tend to pin enemies against the wall a lot with hurricane you are unlikely to see the proc fire often. I would drop hurricane down to just 4 slots (keep the recharge bonus) and but the other slots in Freezing Rain.
Fly: I wouldn't put a stealth proc here but rather in a sprint power (go with unbounded leap, it's usually cheaper). That way you can stealth while using hover and don't need to waste the slot in fly. If you can afford it, I would stick a Blessing of the Zephyr KB IO in fly.
Tornado: As Psylenz said, unless you were going for heavy AoE defense, I much prefer expedient reinforcement to Blood Mandate in Tornado. More recharge means more damage potential, and you get 0 recharge with Blood Mandates. It's a little less defense, but I think we can probably make it up somewhere.
It is absolutely worth investing in the Numina and Miracle Unique for the endurance management. Before putting 4 slots in Stamina, I would slot those two in Health. If you are going to put 4 slots in stamina you are better off slotting four Performance Shifters than 3 generic IOs.
I'll let you know if anything else jumps out at me when I get home and look at this in mids. -
Quote:Glad you found it helpful. Just something useful to remember when slotting: I think the biggest mistake people make is to look only at set bonuses and forget about the powers they are slotting. Example: although 6 Pacing of the Turtles in Snow Storm or Freezing Rain will get you a 3.13% ranged bonus, it is generally a horrible idea. First figure out what you would like to slot your powers for, and then what set bonuses you can get while achieving that. Generally a high a end build will focus on either as much as recharge as possible, or go for soft cap defense to something.I'll have to re download mids(another program I forgot to get my hands on after a reformat) and fiddle with it, and because of work it'll probably be tomorrow before I have one set up for you all to look at. It'll probably be very basic as I have only limited experience with the IO sets. I might overlook a better bonus when slotting...but hey, that's why I asked for help, right? :P Thanks for the advice so far. Also, I did read through your guide, Draggynn and found it very helpful. I look forward to it being finished!
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You may find that while running leadership toggles and fighting toggles, even with Cardiac Alpha, with no recovery power you run low on endurance (I do and I have cconserve power). I would recommend moving the Numina Heal slot in health to Stamina and slotting the performance shifter +endurance proc in Stamina.
I would also get another slot in Freezing Rain for more recharge (your stealth proc can go in a sprint power, freeing up a slot) -
Quote:There are many different approaches that can be taken with storm (and so many people have strong feelings about particular powers), that it is very useful to see a build that you're currently thinking about to get a sense of what your thinking of doing. Posts asking for critiques of builds tend to get lots of responses, posts asking for builds get few. In general I'm happy to offer my thoughts on a build, but will not post builds on principle (fortunately, there are lots of people who will).Edit: If you'd like to post a sample build - it doesn't have to be set in stone, but it helps us to see what you like in powers - then we can give a lot more specific advice.
Quote:I would recommend skimming through Draggyn's guide to Storm, as there's some very good advice in there. For example, there's no practical reason to slot Snow Storm for Slow, because Snow Storm + Freezing Rain = -Recharge cap on most foes. This means that you get to put slots elsewhere to try and milk more set bonuses (or whatever you want) out of a power. -
I think a lot of good reasons have been given already for choosing defenders over Corruptors. I think one of my favorites though, is that with the Cardiac Alpha Slot, and tough and temporary invulnerability, a Defender can hit the AT resistance cap for smashing and lethal damage. Without cardiac (30+15)*(1.6)=72% and a little help from cardiac puts you to 75%. Corruptors on the other hand would have (22.5+11.5)*1.6 = 54.4 and even with cardiac would still be far short of that 75% goal.