Dechs Kaison
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Quote:Keep in mind that performance and balance are done around SO play on standard +0/x1 difficulty, where you primarily are fighting single targets. Soloing on that difficulty, EM is perhaps the best powerset for the job. It offers second only to brute fire single target damage, but has enough mitigation to render bosses reliably stunned.Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
This would make sense if single target ability was equally valuable vs aoe ability, but it is not, especially in a game when you routinely fight more than one enemy at a time.
In a team setting, EM may be less useful than other melee sets, but I'm not here to argue that.
I'm here to argue that different sets do different things. Fire does more damage than anything else, but offers no mitigation. Ice does much less damage, but is very control and mitigation heavy. EM is second only to fire for damage, but offers reliable mitigation. Those heavy pros are offset by the con of lacking AoE damage.
If you don't like it, roll something else. -
Yeah, I'd have to do some serious searching to find the quote, but someone summed it up well in a thread about proliferating Regeneration to tanks. It went something like:
"Well, since tanks are usually the first ones in the fight, it needs to be altered slightly to be able to perform its role. It should have a moderate mix of resists and defense, and the +HP from dull pain should probably be made passive, but less HP overall. Also, instant healing should be turned into a sort of toggle that provides regen proportional to the present threat. Regen doesn't have any particular hole to damage since all damage heals equally, so psi defense/resist should be there too. Then call the set something else... something perhaps... like... Willpower." -
Quote:Easy now, I admit that the way I stated things could have been clearer.Originally Posted by RabidBrian
Yeah Aett thorn likes to read excerpts so they work best with whatever half knowledgable objection hes about to blurt out, whether thats the actual context or not, and goes about it rather coarsely. Yeah, coarsely shouldnt get me modded...
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Serge managed to save the store only by convincing the Paladin that "No, we can't make you look more sharp than you already do."
If I am a winner, I permit NC Interactive, Inc. and NCsoft Europe Limited to use my name, likeness, photograph, hometown, and any comments that I may make about myself or this contest that I provide for advertising and promotional activities. I also certify that I am at least 13 years of age and am eligible to participate in this contest. -
Quote:I didn't mean the only thing as in the only parameter. I meant to say the chart should not include extra recharge beyond what SOs can provide when looked at from a balance standpoint.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, not really, since it's only looking at ST damage output. For instance, if your statement were true, then Spines would need a lot more buffing than EM would. However, Spines has a lot of AoE damage, and so could be just fine. Dark Melee also has a lot of tricks, and so would be higher on the "useful" sets list than something like Fire Melee, even though Fire Melee is higher than it.
The chart does a great job at showing the ST damage of the various sets, but a lot more needs to be looked at than it for determining what needs buffed and what doesn't. -
Quote:Yeah, that was essentially the idea. In my mind, there's no way regen could reliably tank until you add IOs and defense into the mix. At that point it becomes stupid powerful.Originally Posted by Master_Templar
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sort of sounds like if "Regeneration" was a Tanker primary, this would be it?
/em jawdropQuote:Originally Posted by Master_Templar
Aren't there 3 auto powers though (passives)? Are they junk or worth slotting out?
High Pain Tolerance: It gives you resist to all (minor, but still...) and +Max HP! Regeneration is a function of your max HP, not base, so increasing max HP in turn makes all regeneration more effective.
Fast healing and quick recovery are clones of the regen powers by the same name. They're more effective versions of health and stamina, which pretty much everyone takes anyway, so how could you call these junk? -
Quote:And considering that the game is balanced around SOs, the chart is all you need to look at when considering what needs nerfed/buffed.Originally Posted by Nihilii
It's a ST DPS chart comparing level 50 characters using common IOs, without Hasten. SM is filled with quick animating, slow recharging moves, so you're only going to see it shine once you put some recharge in it (be it Hasten, set bonuses, better %s through sets, Quickness/LR, external buffs...).
EDIT TO CLARIFY: What I mean is, you shouldn't consider that the numbers will change when you add more recharge. It doesn't matter, because sets are balanced at the SO level. -
Quote:Heh, need to edit that to "would be."Originally Posted by Sailboat
What level is your EM Scrapper?
Thanks.
Coincidentally, my highest level scrapper was ... 20 before it got deleted? I'm just not good with scrappers. I can't stick with them long enough to get to where I can go full bore scrapperlock, and until then, they just feel worthless to me.
I'll stick to my tanks, trollers, defenders, and masterminds. -
Quote:Fair enough.Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Actually, the market history was wiped when i17 went live, so all price histories are only transactions since then.
People are still stupid. -
Quote:Yeah that was me. It's a routine thing for my Assbot.Originally Posted by anonymoose
One guy said he's seen his Assbot double and even triple-stack the build-up proc.
I've also seen it happen to my fluffy ball of doom that my warshade summons, but that was only once. -
Quote:Actually, it's proven to have higher single target damage than any other set, with the exception of fire melee for brutes.Originally Posted by Atheism
That's great comedy.
Just because you don't understand how to stack stuns doesn't mean it doesn't have mitigation capabilities.Quote:Originally Posted by Atheism
It has mitigation capabilities? Since when? -
I think BillZ has the final word on how well EM is performing.
This is his chart of single target damage set comparison.
Quote:Notice that EM is only behind fire for damage with brutes, and would be the top performing scrapper set.Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Powerset DPS EPS
Brute Fiery 172.6 3.1
Brute Energy 157.5 3.3
Scrap Energy 151 3.3
Scrap Claws 149.6 2.9
Brute Claws 149.5 2.9
Scrap Fiery 149.3 3.1
Brute Warmace 148 3.7
Brute Dark 143.7 3.1
Brute Martial Arts 143.7 3.6
Scrap Strength 142.1 2.9
Scrap Dark 141.6 3.1
Scrap Martial Arts 141.5 3.6
Scrap Warmace 141 3.7
Brute Stone 137.5 3.5
Scrap Dual Blades 136.3 3.5
Brute Dual Blades 134.8 3.5
Scrap Stone 131.8 3.5
Brute Katana 131.2 3.2
Brute Battleaxe 129.3 3.2
Scrap Katana 128.6 3.2
Brute Strength 127.3 2.9
Brute Broadsword 124.9 3.1
Scrap Battleaxe 123.3 3.2
Scrap Broadsword 121.7 3.1
Brute Electric 106.6 2.9
Scrap Electric 103.6 2.9
Brute Spines 93.4 1.6
Scrap Spines 80.1 1.6
EDIT: Curse you Bill! You beat me to the topic.
I don't argue that EM is near worthless to teams, but if a set is top dog in one department and offers good mitigation, it has to suffer somewhere else. -
Quote:People are stupid.Originally Posted by Mage_Black
All this info is great. So tell me this, why does a Call to Arms lv 30 cost so much more at Wentworth and the Black Market then the lv 15 if they do the same thing?
Although, I bet if you look at it more closely, you'll notice it has to do with availability. How often do level 15 ones sell? When was the last?
Since 30s are more common and easier to come by, their price is more current. -
Quote:Both INV and WP's power effects can be set to "No FX," so flashy graphics can exist or not depending on your preference. Before power customization, INV would look like a disco ball.Originally Posted by Master_Templar
Haven't played end game content in awhile, is INV flashy at all (graphically)? Also, how is WPs taunt aura vs INVs? It seems that INVs is better? Is it a big gap?
On the subject of taunt auras: INV's is decidedly better at holding aggro. They are both auto-hit auras, but INV's has a longer duration which by the aggro calculation makes it stronger, and I think it pulses more often.
I wouldn't worry about it. Granted, I don't have a WP tank myself, but I do have a brute, and he seems to handle fine. I've also seen WP tanks in action, of all varieties of budgets, and they rarely have problems.Quote:Originally Posted by Master_Templar
Last bolded part has me a bit worried. Is this true?
The reason that's said is because one of the highlights of WP is its regen. If it's all about recovering from damage, but all that damage comes at once, you could be in trouble. Except of course, it's not all about recovering from damage. WP has a fair amount of resist and defense built in to augment the regen. -
Quote:*raises hand*Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
That's what I was waiting for. Anyone hit 10K yet?
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Quote:Other posters give you rep. The more rep you have, the more you give (or take away). Clicking the scales on a post that has received rep will show you any comment that was left with it.Originally Posted by PuceNonagon
Thanks.
I have 115. How is this accumulated?
And to the OP: I have a bit. -
Quote:True enough, but S/L does cover a lot more than you'd imagine. For instance, Ice blast has lethal components to most of its attacks. Energy and Electric melee have smashing components to most of their attacks. It doesn't mean they all have S/L tags, of course.Originally Posted by SwellGuy
But that 18% is only against S/L and the 16% is melee only so it isn't like he has a universal 18/16 defense. It seems to me at the higher levels that won't be the actual defense benefit.
And I do try to cover that in my guide. Notice I wasn't telling him "Yes it will" or "no it won't."
I was only offering my analysis and some subjective opinion that is in the guide to help him figure it out for himself. -
As for "Will 18% defense really help me?"
Give the guide in my signature a read. -
Quote:Not true, he has all six recipes, so he can split them up and put two in each power.Originally Posted by Dark_Existance
All purples are unique, you can only use those on one power.
Yes, that is a great bonus, and a nice way to get it. I'd do it if I had that many SA IOs. -
Quote:Heh, it's hard to go wrong with IOs. At level 35, I think, they become better than +3 SOs, especially when you start talking multi-aspect ones. That's before you start talking set bonuses!Originally Posted by Diggis
I just stick stuff in there and cross my fingers
What I'm saying is: stick stuff in and you don't even need to cross your fingers. It's still better than SOs. -
Quote:Don't be silly. The system can be quite daunting.Originally Posted by Diggis
Yeah, thanks, went fact checking after posting.... I should know better
It took me a long time to figure out that procs and globals work in completely different ways.
Procs always work as long as the power they are slotted in is available. A level 50 damage proc slotted in brawl always has a chance of firing.
The really tricky ones are things like Numina's +recovery. It looks like it's a set bonus, but really, it's a proc. More technically, it's a Proc120, meaning that it has a (100%) chance to apply an effect to your character for the next 120 seconds. Put it in Triage Beacon (even if it's a level 50 and you're exemped to 5) and you'll have a recovery bonus 2 minutes after you drop the beacon. Put it in Health, and you'll have the recovery bonus as long as you don't exemplar so far that you lose the power Health. -
Quote:No, the 7.5% recharge is a global bonus, which acts just like a set bonus in terms of exemplaring.Originally Posted by Diggis
Hang on... it's only the set bonus you lose. Isn't luck of the gambler 7.5% recharge the IO's power, not the set bonus, so it'll still apply even when you exemplar?
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Set_Bonu...nd_Exemplaring
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inventio...ements#Globals -
Yes. Which is why my warshade uses all level 25 ones.
Actually, all set bonuses work like that. If you have all level 50 IOs, then as soon as you exemplar to level 46 or lower, you lose every single bonus.
My Dark Armor tank does not have a single set IO over level 40 if it's used to get set bonuses. My character is essentially the same regardless of exemplar all the way to level 37. It allows me to run things like the sewer trial and maintain my S/L/E/N softcap. -
Quote:My apologies for misunderstanding.Originally Posted by Nihilii
I actually misread Silas' post and missed the "while not soloing" part, so was refering at least two different posts
Hmm... how does that work with Mastermind henchmen then? Do I test the bruiser against a single target without the two upgrade powers? Or can I use the full range of powers of the pet?Quote:Originally Posted by Nihilii
So, buffed pets, debuffed foes (from other pets/players), insps given to pets, aggro held by other player/pets, all of this isn't soloing in my opinion. -
Quote:Fair enough, but next time just call me out. No sense in saying "some people," when it's as clear as day who you're targeting.Originally Posted by Nihilii
For me, soloing is just one single pet. At most, I could agree fire imps or MMs tier1 or 2 might count as "one" because it's one power, but anything over that and that's not really soloing anymore. YMMV.
I just noticed how blue-sided the conversation seemed and wanted to make sure that the other "pets" in the game weren't overlooked.
Also, is it still soloing if you send rocky into the fray after you've buffed him with fortitude, RAs, and AB?