DarkPhoenix

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Can't live much longer? Sorry ninja but that's if you have the brilliant idea of attempting an AS in the middle of multiple opponents. Other than that, you just placate and prepare AS again.


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Yes and while the stalker placates you the target is completely helpless and is unable to I don't know use respites, +HP powers (like dull pain and such) or pop lucks so that AS misses so that the stalker does not stand a chance.

/rolls eyes.

If you hate stalkers so much why don't you get + perception powers. You don't go out in below zero weather butt naked then blame the weather because you got sick

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What worries me, Myr is that quite a number of posts in other topics seem to be urging that Tanks and Defenders become interdependent. Since Damage is king, and, at higher levels, damage mitigation is increasingly important, we would HAVE to have Defenders (and therefore tanks) on the team. This means we actually have PLAYERS suggesting that we recreate the EQ triad, NOT the DEVs.

You guys need to cut that out right now.

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Nope actually the devs started this when they neutered tankers so that they could be more reliant on defenders and controllers. The whole point was to address "concerns" that defenders were perceived as not needed in the upper levels.

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From what I've heard all the balancing is for heroic level situations. So it's fair to ask what does a tank do on heroic when there is no need for anyone to "tank".

And healing does generate aggro I believe. Not like a taunt but I thought it did.

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The only healing that I know that generates aggro is Dark and kinetics, I don't think any other ones do I have not seen it yet at least. Debuffs generate aggro is that what you are thinking of?

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Could care less about toggle dropping in PVP wish they would lower the NPCS so my brutes/tanks and scrappers would not get stunned on large teams unless they have the right helpers.

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Eh? Even with the mez resistance hit, tanks and scrappers still have a pretty good mez protection. And if you're on a large team, odds are you're going to see more mez buffs from controllers/defenders.

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My brute has plenty of times when he teams with plenty of masterminds and there is little to no corruptor in sight. Not all defenders and controllers have mezz protection(storm, Dark, TA) and I find it ridicoulous that I have to get certain ones in particular.

Could care less about toggle dropping in PVP wish they would lower the NPCS so my brutes/tanks and scrappers would not get stunned on large teams unless they have the right helpers.

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My favorite moment in CoV (think I was around level 10 at the time):

25% Health, very low Endurance, high Fury, only a single Inspiration left (Defense), spawn of 3 minions in front of me. Rest is recharge and I'm about to hit it when I think screw it, I'm going in. Luckily the first guy dropped a Heal Inspiration. Not sure if I wouldn't made it without it. Fury makes you do dumb things.

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Dude, I do that ALL the frickin' time! THIS is why people like Brutes so much, not because they're "uber."

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I always end up paying more attention to my fury bar then anything else.

/looks up fury bar almost full
/drools
/OMG 10% health why didn't I notice that (always happen after I get to the next group)

Bah you think that's bad you should have heard the sound effects of the first fiery aura village drums anyone, kind of makes you wonder what kind of music these guys listen to doesn't it

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Declaring a Brute as fun is a sure way to get it nerfed into oblivion. Look in the other forums. If we do not start complaining real soon someone will notice. Fun ATs are not alowed after I6.

SMASH SMASH SMASH

I mean... wimper smush whimper

No fun here. Please move on. I heard some master minds talking about fun.

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actually except for dominators if fun is the standards for nerfing then COV AT are going to get nerfs of epic proportions

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Sadly, I have never gotten to the fury cap...and I'm level 27 :<

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get a thermal coruptor beg him to never leave your side and jump blindly into a group of foes and the joys of fury will reveal themselves to you. Of course you will live or die depending on how the coruptor is slotted but it takes a certain amount of craziness to pursue the SMASH .

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I thought Tankers were the "supported" AT.

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Yes, the line for your truss is forming now, don't miss it!!!

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bah I am going for a motorized wheelchair

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See, and when I read: Tanker = Frontline Fighter in the manual, I don't think of them as "support ATs." But then again, my only other MMO experiance was about 9 months of SWG, so I don't have Tank=Meatshield ingrained into my brain.

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Ah! See a lot of us thought we were front line troops as well, but Statesman came along and put us right on that one. We are a Support AT (apparently)

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And then he woke up the next day and had another vision that we should be mediocre damage dealers with big HP, "the vision" is subject to change so the vision for monday is not the same for tuesday

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I didn't want to go there.

The thing is, that seems to be what States' expects to be the role of the AT. If you are doing more, then the AT may need to be taken down some more.

How much is enough, and what should you expect. Apparently the contribution that Statesman's Tank made was sufficient to meet expectations.

If that is the case, then the question becomes, is it worth playing a character that contributes that much (little)?

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He "tanked" 1/3 of a spawn for 7. He took up a little more than twice his share. On a team with any sort of non-melee AT i'd expect any scrapper to at LEAST do this much. I think it's pretty clear that states' grand vision for tanks is nothing more than scrankers who draw a little more aggro than the vastly more offensively effective scrappers.

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Exactly how does a Scrapper with less defense than a tank do do at LEAST as much defensively? That makes no sense. Since other than Regen and Dark they are using the same numbers but lower than Tanks no Scrapper is going to be able to deal with damage better.

Statements like this are why nothing comes of these threads. There is no basis for them. They are little better than the obvious flames.

The Devs respond to facts not opinions.

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Look at his team composition with an emp and a kin supporting him, my scrapper does it all the time. With just an emp my controller can handle all the aggro he gets from his holds. With just an emp my regen scrapper becomes ultra regen/SR tanker/capped damage with unlimited endurance and healing there's very little that can stop me I have tanked avs and herded with my scrapper with just an emp buffing and healing me.

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A reply to Tom:

May I request also that if/when you run your tests, you get some of the not-so-great tanks as well.

The all-star line up going to test this might set the bar a bit too high for lower lights, like myself

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Be my guest, Casshan. I plan to run my non-tanks in this testing set-up.

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I would glady volunteer my level 32 earth/storm controller I have yet to find any combination of tanks that can keep aggro off of her.

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Oh, come on ... Statesman wouldn't release a faulty statement regarding what someone can do when they're going to just nerf that possibility in a few weeks ... I mean, it's not like he said we could six-slot powers for maximum effectiveness right before we couldn't do that anymore, right?

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I also find it very ironic that statesman would say people aren't familiar with their builds, I mean it's not like he makes major changes to the game all the time without proper implimentation or informing the playerbase right?

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Scorus, it seems from your sig you play a stone tank. YOUR character is still able to hold aggro and survive it fine.

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I expected this, though not in the first response.

The premise is incorrect. Pre-granite took severe hits both from I5 and ED. Granite didn't take a hit as far as surviving, but it took a huge hit in the "able to hold aggro." Without Hasten, the huge -SPD component of Granite makes holding aggro on a large scale very problematic. I don't mean that it is impossible, but it is very difficult. Imagine trying to keep aggro while under the influence of 2-3 swarms and you'll get the idea of the challenges.

I've tested ED at the mid-20s, mid-30s, and mid-40s (I keep old versions of my character on the test server). If I push the envelope with my character the way I used to, then I and/or my teammates die. If I make sure that I take the aggro from the most dangerous enemies in a group and my teammates understand that none of us can get away with what we used to, everybody walks away.

Scorus

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hasten cannot be permaed anymore but you only get minimal downtime if you keep it about 40 seconds or so. I don't get why stone tanks would respect out of it all of the sudden just because you can't perma it. The benefits still outweight the cost and besides all of us were affected by the changes to hasten.

Look at his post and the support he got to be able to tank 33% with I may add the secondary with the most AOE's. He was adding nothing to the team that a scrapper would not with those kind of buffs and way more damage.

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I just played a Tanker with the following group (actually, at the request of a PM)...

Inv/Fire tanker (32, SKed to 49)
Level 50 Elec/Elec Blaster (it was his mission, set on Rugged)
Level 32 Peacebringer (SKed to 48 or so).
Level 48 MA/Inv scrapper
Level 50 Fire/Kin controller
Level 35 Earth/empathy controller (SKed up to 48)
Level 49 Energy/energy blaster

We faced the Carnival of Shadows. Typically, I'd start combat by Taunting any Strongmen in the spawn. I knew that I could handle their damage best. I'd usually catch some other minions and lts. I'd end up with a good 1/3 of the spawn focused on me, while the rest of my group disposed of the others. Whenever I saw a teammate enter the red, I'd either Taunt the mobs off them or hit the mobs to get their aggro.

End result? Well, no one was that familiar with their builds. The Controller was defeated by getting too close to another spawn. The Peacebringer carelessly tossed off attacks and ended up aggroing too much. After those two defeats, we settled down and functioned fine.

Admittedly, my own health dropped down to a 1/3 several times. I'd get a little concerned, but usually I had Dull Pain ready.


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so our role by your own experience is to take the initial aggro, to tank 1/3 of the group eventough by your own admission you went to 1/3 in the red even with an emp and a kin on team long enough for the rest of the team to do it's job. So what is it you were doing that a buffed scrapper and he would be buffed with a kin controller with pets and emp on team would not be able to do plus he would be adding damage to the team which you were not. Is this really your impression of tanking is? that someone even as knowledgable and skilled as you could only contribute handling 1/3 of the spawns? what if you were EM,SS with only one AOE unlike fire is 1/3 too high of a standard then?

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Abberrations?!? Bah! Stalkers are the AT that CoH forgot, that should have been there from the start, that are the most fun I've ever had playing this game. If you scrapmongers had your way, all stalkers would be reduced to the mediocre scrappers they would be without things like hide and placate.


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pish posh! Even with your cowardly tools, you ARE medicore scrappper-wannabes.

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Scrappers are nowhere near as cool as stalkers at least we get some cool toys that go with secondaries that are worth two lucks or less

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Still,

"the servers are ghost towns" and "subscriptions are always UP, UP, UP" are not mutually exclusive.

OP could be playing at odd hours, or on a less-populated server, or folks are playing COV, or just HIDING from him because he's a jerk/idiot/noob/jackamuffin.

Things can feel "deserted" when they're actually quite busy. Its a skill in interior design, why not game design?

CoH, the first game that feels empty despite ever increasing population

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More people are on but a lot more people are soloing, When I look for teams in COH you get more people declining because they are soloing. When putting up a team a lot of people seem to be avoiding large teams like a plague when I send tells for teeam I usually get responses saying that they don't want in large teams. Small to medium size teams seems to be the new norm 8 man teams are not as attractive anymore.

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not laggy but just need to be populated so I can team. I hate soloing with a passion.

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COV in certain zone is running around 800MB of ram not only will that crash most PC's (512MB) but it also makes those that can lag very badly and run out of memory. There are lots of people who just can't log on, good thing my pc has 2 GB worth of RAM.

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Yes, he does. He think's they'll get bored because there is no end-game yet and they'll leave. That's why he hates having powerlevelers in his game.

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Quoted from the truth, there is no end game they have been promising it for a long time now but we got nothing . The only thng they have managed to come back with so far is that we have pvp

My level 50 has been dying to get some action hell I could have had 3 level 50's by now but 50 means the fun ends so I usually start stalling around the 40's.

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If you guys can take on 20 mobs at a time without being in danger then THANK GOD YOU WEREN'T NERFED HARDER.

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Maybe you missed this lovely tidbit from statesman
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One of the posters discussed his Tanker – and how he leaped into the fray with 2 Bosses, 2 or 3 lts. And 2 or 3 minions…and promptly had to flee. A spawn such as that in a mission would be designed for 5 heroes.

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A tanker would not want 17 mobs on him

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In summary, I actually like a limit, but 17 is way too low for a tank.

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With the lower resist numbers tankers have compliments of I5+ ED I don't think the tanker would want to take on 17 bad guys .

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Yep - this is the AI change to "fix" herding...

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As many have said before this was one of our suggestions so that you did not have to slaughter our defenses. But I guess the only ideas you like on tankers these days are the ones that involve nerfing. But since tankers are working just fine according to the vision you don't really care that we are just glorified scrankers now.

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Wanted to explain the reasons for changing Burn...

It became apparent that Burn was the trump power...with it, a Tanker needed to do nothing else. He could lay down a Burn patch and Taunt foes in and out of it. The damage was so great that the Burn patch itself would do the defeating; the Tanker only needed to hit Taunt.

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The question has come up - "what's the point of Burn now?" Well, it still offers Immobilization defense (we're actually going to increase that duration)


[/ QUOTE ] got a few words for you, break frees, CJ and hover how's that for immobalization defense. I call bolderdash on that one[ QUOTE ]
. And Burn does do a lot of damage

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. Taunt alone might not bring mobs into Burn continually, but stunning, holding, immobilizing mobs in Burn is just plain devastating.

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correction taunt will not bring them back plain devastating with 5 times the recharge and 25% less damage, who are you trying to fool? So now let's be honest what's the real offense that we have for the holes that are in the set. Fiery embrace oh yeah you nerfed that to a point that to even fire/fire it's the equivalent of build up. Since the fear was clearly intended and you wanted to rid of the power would you at least fix the weaknesses that you gave us to make up for our now gone offense.