Dante

There's ponies?

Welcome!

Yes, this would be a perfectly fine place to ask questions regarding RP whether it be Union or any of the other servers. I'm a Unionite but I'll be honest, I've been out of the loop for a while now so hopefully some other, more regular Union RPers will be able to update you on how things are currently.

Personally, I don't put NPCs up on the Wiki but some do. Recaps tend to be there for people who couldn't make events or just need to catch up between sessions. You could always consider PMing the poster of the recap for more information. Another thing to consider is that Wiki entries are normally posted using the character's hero or villain name but people familiar with the character may refer to them using their given name.

Finding others to RP with be they hero allies or villainous opposition can take a bit of time building up contacts but if you request help here and mention it in the channel, hopefully someone will like the sound of it and you can arrange something. The channel tends to be the place to ask these kind of things but I do know what you mean about forums, I tend to be a forum chatterer myself.

Oh and in case you haven't seen it, here's a small guide I wrote up before our server lists merged last year that attempts to give an overview of the Union RP landscape. It's probably desperately in need of an update but it may help you out:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=255630

Good luck!

I'm not someone to multi-quote so I'll just respond with what I can.

Pandora's Box seemed to work ok for most explanations of power in game. It was open only a crack before Cole and Richter opened it wide, heralding the dawn of a new age of heroism. So anything before the Well was discovered could still be powered from that source due to it being open a little way. However, the box was only mentioned in the Web of Arachnos novel and IIRC, has never been mentioned in game. I also seem to recall that the novels have always been regarded as 'secondary' lore i.e. not a reliable source of information. Which is a shame as they're a lot better than some of the other sources.

Either way, Pandora's Box and the Well were vague, out of sight mechanisms that allowed players to create anything they wanted without having to differ to some almighty power source for them to progress. Once we hit 50 though, the only way to progress is through the Well (or Wells, depending on species), regardless of your origin. IMHO, this is sloppy. How we came about our powers has never been mentioned in character creation, leaving players free to create any concept they please. But at level 50, it's lumped on us, forcing us into a strict method of progression. And it's not like the developers didn't have a chance to change this, they just redid the tutorial so there's no real excuses for not establishing Well lore there.

As for the Rikti, I do still think they were a far more viable threat than Praetoria. They had an entire world to call on, the ability to open thousands of portals across the globe simultaneously, have vast motherships and a network of mind linked soldiers. Plus, don't forget, we were fighting them at a time when we didn't have teleporters or medical bays as that technology was reverse engineered from Rikti tech. Sealing off their dimension from ours was a sensible, logical choice. And yet this three island state, barely recovered from humanity almost being wiped out is left free to open portals to ours? Why? Because every nation on earth is happy to take the word of a guy from the future who may be Nemesis and a demigod who has never played straight with humanity from the start? For me, it just stretches suspension of disbelief too far. Just adding 'because the Well says so' to Praetoria doesn't make it more awesome or dangerous, it's just lazy as is using the same AVs we kicked around not a level or two ago.

This kind of inconsistency is rife in Incarnate lore. We can blow up Warwalkers with no problem in the Sutter TF but in the Apex TF, they're tough cookies. When we attack Praetoria in the Tin Mage TF, non-incarnates are hit by some bizarre 'anti-non-incarnate ray' that gives them a -4 level debuff. And yet this effect is never applied in any iTrial. It's as if the developers come up with the trials then just patch together whatever lore they can to justify it, no matter how patchy it is.

I agree with Eva, it was the Origin of Power arc that first showed signs of a shift in the lore towards the worse. That appeared to be the first attempt of the new writers to reconcile 'the old stories' with the 'new ones we want to tell'. Now bringing in new writers is obviously going to happen, the folks that wrote some of the old stories are long gone. But they shouldn't be trying to retcon everything to support the new (and IMHO) inferior stories. Vincent Ross' arc is a prime example of this.

I've stated before and I still stand by my belief that the current developers of CoX have little appreciation for what it is that make CoX so great:

1) The feeling of being a hero (or villain),
2) being the centre of the story and
3) totally free to create any conceivable character

are three of the key things that make CoX fun. The fourth tier is, I believe, having a convincing and consistent world to do those two things in. Incarnate content gives none of that flexibility or consistency and its clash with 'old lore' is jarring. Perhaps this isn't so visible to newer players but to some of us, it's a big disappointment.

(Apologies for the wall of text, I only get small windows of time to post in so it all comes out in a big jumble.)


EDIT: I've just remembered the final thought I had: the rumours of the 'third way' that was mentioned at the Player Summit. I'm not one to make idle bets but I'm willing to wager that that's going to be a 'non-defined, non-Well' method to try and satisfy the complaints made about the extremely narrow Incarnate lore. If it is, then they may manage to pull this mess back out of the fire. If not then... well, I'll have to see.

It occurrs to me, after a bit of thought about last night's finale, that it's essentially the same story as the last episode of Doctor Who namely, 'the world must think me dead so I can complete my work'.

I'm a bit annoyed I've drawn that parallel now. I hope Moffat's not running out of ideas.

Without wanting to get drawn into the already raging debate, I’ll try and answer the OP’s question, at least from my own humble perspective. Although it is always funny to see who hasn’t got certain people on ignore yet.

1) Having the Well be the sole source of all powers.

A problem that a lot of people (and certainly a lot of roleplayers) have is that by enforcing this, the origins of our characters are suddenly no longer our own. This game had six years of allowing players to create virtually any type of character from aliens, to mutants to other dimensional entities and at no point was the Well even mentioned. As it stands, there’s already exceptions to the Well Lore that we’re aware of in game. Now we hit 50 and we essentially get told, ‘no, it wasn’t you, it was all thanks to the Well’. For me, that’s a [pancake] of a sucker punch to hit someone with when they hit the peak of their career.

Also, the Well is not exactly what you call a well known piece of lore. It’s not mentioned in character creation, it’s hardly referenced in the 1-50 material. This isn’t like Direct Competition Underdogs Online where your origin is determined for you in the tutorial. CoX has always allowed complete freedom of creation and yet for the Incarnate content, we’re suddenly all boxed into the same origin.

2. Making the Well sentient.

This was a huge mistake because it changes the nature of our characters’ relationship to the Well. Having us searching for artefacts of an ancient power isn’t such a bad thing, it makes us treasure hunters, finding secrets of long dead gods to grow more powerful ourselves. But as soon as the source of that power becomes sentient and alive, it changes that. We essentially become acolytes of an elder god, beseeching it to grant us more power. The thrust of the Incarnate storyline is us trying to prove our value to the Well, showing it that Cole is not worthy of being its Champion.

And before anyone chimes in with the ‘it’s not sentient, it’s being guided’, I have to ask ‘by who?’ Who in the universe is powerful enough to dictate what this source of all power can do? That in itself makes this and the next point dangerous ground for anyone who’s still sane.

3. And now our god is mad too.

So if it’s not enough that our characters are now power hungry disciples of an unseen god, it’s established in Ramiel’s arc and beyond that the Well is a little bit bonkers. So now we’re actively trying to convince a mad god to give us more power so we can spank its champion back to his own dimension. How is this a sane and rational course of action for anyone other than the most mad of villains?

4. None of it is our dimension’s concern.

I like Praetoria. At least, I liked it in the 1 – 20 GR content, right up to the point where it god-mods you into deciding to fight against Praetoria when you leave. But the entirety of the Incarnate content so far has occurred in Goatee Universe. Which would be a problem if we’d never fought a dimensional war before, but guess what? We have! And how did we deal with the Rikti? We sealed them off in their own little backwater and left them to it. And yet now, saving Praetoria seems to be a bigger task for our 50s than anything in our world.

5. Praetoria is not a credible threat.

It’s established that the world of Praetorian Earth is mostly ruled by the Hamidon. That aside from a few remaining outposts, all that’s left of humanity is this tiny island state ruled by Goatee Statesman. And yet somehow, this tiny nation is a bigger threat to us than any other world. Why? Because the Well say so.

6. Disparity with Level 50 content.

Think about some of the things that level 50s can do. Long before the Incarnate system, I’ve seen a DM/Regen Scrapper clear the final room in Dark Watcher’s arc while the rest of our 8 man team lay dead. I’ve seen Tanks devastate rooms on +4/x8 settings. We’ve stopped Rikti invasions, a Nazi Statesman, aspects of a mad, dimension devouring god, a machine that can strip all of the power in the world and grant it to Recluse… we’ve done some epic things. But for the Incarnate system, we’re facing old foes bumped up to the point where it takes 12 – 24 Incarnates to beat them. Why? Because the [pancaking] Well says so.

We even have to deal with Maelstrom, a jumped up little punk we’ve all kicked to the curb many times who can now just say ‘bang, you’re dead’ to us. This is before we get to the civilians who can down us with rocks for [pancake’s] sake!

I could go on but those are the main points I feel. I dislike how needlessly complex the system is, how it ignores villains as if they never existed but these are separate to the story points. I’ll just say that is as a roleplayer I’ve seen bad GMs do some incredible asspulls in my time, making up things as they go along to justify their badly thought out campaign. After a while you get a sense for plots that are just being cobbled together as they go along, justifications being made up on the fly. And the Incarnate system rings that alarm and then some for me. I could forgive it maybe if this was 20 – 30 content maybe but this is meant to be our premier content, one of the major points for subscribing.

Instead it just feels like it is: a big sticky mess of [pancakes].

A sad day indeed for me. 2012 has only just begun and one of my heroes has passed on.

You may not recognise the name but if you have ever watched a great swordfight on screen and enjoyed it, it's likely that this man was responsible in some way. A life long career training actors on how to wield a blade, he was responsible for the sword fights in The Princess Bride, Pirates of the Carribean, Highlander, Lord of the Rings and of course, Star Wars where he even stood in for Darth Vader at times.

The news was reported here: http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012...anderson-dies/

and as a reminder of his finest work, I suggest watching this again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC6dgtBU6Gs

I very much enjoyed watching last night's show. It's been the first time I've been glued to the screen, unable to move for ages. The interplay between the characters is wonderful and the script is very tight. Most annoying thing of all was trying to work out where we knew the actress playing Mistress Adler from. We kicked ourselves when we worked out it was from True Blood.

Downsides, only two I can count. I hate, hate, hate Screamy Shouty 'Jim' Moriaty. He's far too much like Screamy Shouter Master from Doctor Who (although in fairness, he wasn't Moffat's creation). I like my masterminds clever and focused, not semi-coherent lunatics.

Also, I'm not keen on how Dr Watson is portrayed. Aside from the moment in the very first episode where he saved Sherlock's life, he's continually either comic relief or a fool to be used by Sherlock and anyone else who sees fit. Watson was both a doctor, a soldier and a damn fine mind in his own right, it would be nice to see him as less of a victim.

Other than that, superb, gripping viewing.

I saw this the other day too. I was really impressed given that sequels are normally nowhere near as good as the original. I pretty much agree with all the points raised so far, including the two criticisms.

Well worth a watch.

EDIT: One thing that did bug me was the casting of Stephen Fry. Although he would have been brilliant in the role in a different version of Sherlock Holmes, he seemed a bit out of place in this one. Still magnificent though.

One of the things that alas, we often forget is that the Well being the source of all power is in canon and has been since the game started. But up until the Incarnate system started, it was wholly ignorable. A vague, barely even recognised artefact lost after Cole and Richter gained their powers. I liked it like that. Characters could be created, exist and never even need to acknowledge the Well as being the point of origin. We could maintain our own reasons for developing powers and not even nod in the direction of the Well.

When the Well suddenly came to the forefront, it vainly took all credit for our powers and was set up as the only way that we could advance ourselves. Add to the mix its obvious lunacy and god like tendencies and I just had to dismiss all of it. The only characters I have who would willingly devote themselves to a mad god's service are insane themselves. To this date, I have yet to meet a roleplayer who accepts the Incarnate story wholesale and doesn't discard it outright as the piece of god-modding tripe it is.

One of the wonderful things about CoX has always been the freedom of character creation. Unlike other, lesser MMOs I could mention, we're not forced into a backstory or reason for developing powers. We had absolute free reign to create what we wanted. With the fruit-loop Well now in the mix, that choice has been severely lessened.

And now there's hints of a third way to advance without the Well apparently. Is it just me or does that smell like a desperate retcon to try and address some of these issues that keep on coming up on the forum again and again?

The well speaks to us in Ramiel's arc. That's pretty damned sentient right there.

And it's also the moment I wanted to run screaming from the Well's power. Why the hell would any sane being want to be the servant of a mad, all-powerful god? That's just a complete logic disconnect right there. Also, if the Well is being controlled, it would imply that whoever is controlling it is more powerful than the Well. Now, right there, we have scary, cosmic sized power. And yet here we are, being pwnd by citizens wielding rocks. Is it any wonder the two scenarios don't sit well together?

Personally, I feel the mistake was in making the Well in any way sentient or conscious because it changes the relationship of our characters to their powers. We're no longer strong heroes fighting the forces of good/evil, we're acolytes to a divine entity, cowering at its feet and trying to convince it to give us more power. We're not the warrior, trying to make things better/worse, we're the priest, praying to a god to give us strength. It stripped us of our individuality. If the Trials are being written by someone who knows CoX mechanics well, they certainly have little idea of what makes CoX great.

If this is the Incarnate system going according to plan, I shudder to think what horrors lie in store for us in Dark Astoria and beyond.

Finally got to see this last night. Yeah, I wept a little and enjoyed the lighter tone to it. Although I don't think this Doctor can do anger very well, he is superb at being a daft loon especially when it comes to kids. Loved the tour of the house.

Not quite as good as The Next Doctor or End of Time, I found the resolution a little swift, the fate of the forrest seemed to come too rapidly with little explanation of what had happened to them. But the King and Queen sent off my pagan spidey sense terribly.

And IIRC, Time Lords can withstand the vacuum of space for a few minutes. I couldn't quite remember the references though so thank you.

Too much stuff in this thread I'd want to quote but can't. But you can put me firmly on the side of those who think the Incarnate system makes us nothing more than 24 Star Trek Redshirts hurled against boring, non-cosmic scale foes who use dirty Bad GM tricks to win. Horrible, horrible system that is not convincing me in the slightest to stay as a VIP.

Now, to answer the OP, yes, yes and yes again. I would play them, I would bring others to play them and I'd probably enjoy them. Before Incarnates, aside from a few rare occurances, everything could be done in an eight man team and the content was balanced in favour of that. Eight is more than most other games but it is a good team size for everyone to feel that they're contributing and getting their own time in the spotlight. On a 24 man league, I just get lost.

As for foes, I don't buy that they should be lesser threats. At level 50, we've fought off a second Rikti invasion, beaten the snot out of the Freedom Phalanx, fought a mad, dimension eating god... no, don't give us overpowered morons like Maelstrom, give us a foe that's worth sending Incarnates against.

And as for co-op... please no! I am so tired of seeing that word now. It makes playing a villain pointless and is just a lazy excuse for not developing separate content. No more co-op please!

Most of my characters are on SOs bar a few -KB IOs. The only time I consider an IO build is if they survive to being over 30 and I play them frequently. So yeah, I think the game should be mostly fine on SOs.

The only exception to this is my Kat/DA Scrapper who I have to judiciously juggle toggles with otherwise I end up with an empty blue bar most of the time. I will IO him but as he was my first toon, I'm determined to get him to 50 on SOs first.