Cuffzter

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I have a robots/traps mastermind, and it fit's my concept brilliantly.

Although my concept does come from the White Wolf game, 'Mage'.

My character is a rogue man in white, and has the ability to call upon the Technocracy technology that he stole while climbing his way up the ranks. The nice things with that concept is that the Technocracy can do pretty much anything as they combine magic and technology to create 'mundane' items, like robots, healing devices and such like.


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Interesting.. My Robot/traps MM is a Son of Ether.....
Just waiting for Power customisation so i can make them steamtech..

Was in a group yesterday.
Sure enough the tank had taunt... and used it.
But he also had Unyielding, Temp invulnerability and Invincibility.. which he DIDNT use. He waited till the Blaster (me or any of the defenders) pulled rather than charge and take the alpha..

He'd rather take on lone lieutenants and minions than the bosses, when he didnt "steal" my glowies (it was my mission.. but i didnt make a issue of it.. if i really need influence ive got plenty of it on my 50..)

In the end.. he was a scranker with taunt..


at the end of the day.. i would have been better of with another scrapper..

experience from doing frostfire mission with one of my lowbie alts earlier tonight..
Somethin is wrong when a tanker LETS a controller fire off their big AoE debuff or lets a blaster open doors or fire off big balls of fire.
its SERIOUSLY wrong when said tanker WAITS for the squishies to do any of the above before they go in.. >.<

does AS retract claws for a claws scrapper? as it make u put swords away i mean..

just got off a frostfire team with a ice/axe tank..
so thats one at least.. on Union

Since the thread is about Inv/Nrg tanks, I figured I might as well share my build to compare it with Gideons.

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.5.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://home.comcast.net/~SherkSilver/index.html)
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Name: officer cuffz
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Energy Melee
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01) --> Resist Physical Damage==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(3)
01) --> Barrage==> Acc(1)
02) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(2) DmgRes(5) DmgRes(5) EndRdx(7)
04) --> Dull Pain==> Heal(4) Heal(7) Heal(9) Rechg(9) Rechg(11) Rechg(11)
06) --> Resist Elements==> DmgRes(6) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(13)
08) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(8) DmgRes(15) DmgRes(15) EndRdx(17)
10) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc(10) Acc(17) Dmg(19) Dmg(19) Rechg(21) EndRdx(21)
12) --> Resist Energies==> DmgRes(12) DmgRes(23) DmgRes(23)
14) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(14) Acc(25) Dmg(25) Dmg(27) EndRdx(27)
16) --> Fly==> Fly(16) Fly(29) Fly(29)
18) --> Invincibility==> TH_Buf(18) DefBuf(31) DefBuf(31) EndRdx(31) Taunt(33) Taunt(33)
20) --> Whirling Hands==> Acc(20) Acc(33) Dmg(34) Dmg(34) DisDur(34) Rechg(36)
22) --> Swift==> Run(22)
24) --> Health==> Heal(24)
26) --> Stamina==> EndMod(26) EndMod(36) EndMod(36)
28) --> Tough Hide==> DefBuf(28) DefBuf(37) DefBuf(37)
30) --> Build Up==> TH_Buf(30) Rechg(37) Rechg(39) Rechg(39)
32) --> Unstoppable==> DmgRes(32) Rechg(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
35) --> Energy Transfer==> Acc(35) Acc(40) Dmg(42) Dmg(42) Rechg(42) EndRdx(43)
38) --> Total Focus==> Acc(38) Acc(43) Dmg(43) Dmg(45) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(45)
41) --> Conserve Power==> EndRdx(41) Rechg(46) Rechg(46) Rechg(46)
44) --> Stealth==> DefBuf(44) DefBuf(48) DefBuf(48) EndRdx(48)
47) --> Invisibility==> DefBuf(47) EndRdx(50)
49) --> Phase Shift==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
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01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
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As you can see, I picked flight pool instead of teleport. Air superiority will let me "juggle" just about anything save Elite bosses or AVs, it is not uncommon for me to keep red and purple bosses in the air for a whole fight without a scratch.
It also let me respec out Energy Punch and still have a good attack chain without long pauses.

Since i dont have Taunt, ive put in some Taunt enhancers in Invincibility instead. As long as anyone dont get to triggerhappy im able to keep at least half if not more of the aggro anyway (talking about 8 man teams here). My reasoning is that if im able to keep 2/3rds of a spawn (primarily the bosses) occupied, then surely can 7 other people together handle the remaining 1/3.

Unlike Gideon, I do like Build up. I like it so much I slotted it for recharge so i can use it as often as possible.

I also love Unstoppable, it has saved my bacon on multiple occasions and is great when tanking AVs. I have even managed to survive the crash while up against AVs, -twice.
Slotted for recharge, i managed to use it twice in one battle against a level 52-53 Infernal. Fun Fun

And finally the Concealment pool.
Im still experimenting with Phase shift.. I dont usually use it while in teams unless there is another tank i can count on to control the situation for the 30 secs im out of the fight.
The biggest use ive had so far for it has been against the Marauder who goes Unstoppable, Phase shift lets me "kill off" 30sec of his 3 minutes.

Inv/mace Tanker for those Thunderhammer wielders?

Well, theres Resist damage end then theres Avoid damage.

Tankers are by their powers GREAT at resisting most types of damage, what they are less good at are Avoiding taking damage.
While concealment doesnt help resisting any damage whatsoever it DOES help with Avoiding it.
And face it, there are some mobs out there who your resists are downright useless against (speaking from a Invulns POV) like Sappers and Carnie psionics.

Against these, Stealth WILL help, not just by adding a respectable DEF but also by giving the ability to get close and behind so you can get the first shot, maybe stunning/disorienting/knockdowning or even taking them out in one clean shot (my favorite is Build up + Energy transfer for this) before they get a chance to use their attack.

For the rest of the team, its all a matter of timing, they just have to wait a lil' bit longer since the tank wont take the alpha until he or she is just about to crack their skulls, instead of doing it while advancing towards the group.

I didnt take stealth until level 44. So personally i already had all the Primaries, Attacks and pool powers i thought i needed.
So yeah, i admit maybe im speaking from a high level Tanks point of view where i could with good conscience "waste" a power or two and not taking into concern the priorities of a lower level tank.

Hmm, for the Officer.. it just has to be the theme from COPS.
you know: "Bad boys, bad boys, what ya gonna do? what ya gonna do when they come for you"

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Make the job easier for the Tanker (and the rest of team), definitely. Negate the 'need' for a Tanker? Not in my experience.

I've never been on a team where I didn't feel my Tankers have made a useful contribution. No matter how many heals, buffs, debuffs and control effects you have available, a Tanker is always handy.

Of course, my opinion is perhaps a little biased.

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just out of curiosity, Bridger. Do you have Taunt? or do you rely on the Area taunts?

I dont have taunt, and to be honest, rarely have i been in a situation where would i have had it had been useful. Well, except for pulling. I HAVE run into a few groups with blasters that have had absolutely no concept of "pulling".

So having taunt (or a ranged attack) would have made it less painful. But as to taunting mobs to help a teammate out that is in the red, that has been even more so rare.
Usually theyre halfway down a corridor running AWAY from me screaming "Heal plz!!" (and the empath) instead of towards me or the defender.
Having taunt wouldnt have made a difference in the first place since I wouldnt have been able to target the mobs anyway.

In closing, ive leveld to 50 and i have never had any complaints for not having taunt. (save one time, from a blaster who wanted to try out his Nova. And all he had to do for the rest of the mission was to wait 1-2 extra seconds for me to consolidate the aggro before he could shoot off his Nova, which he did)

I believe Taunt to be a good complement to a tanker build, but not needed and certainly not essential
Sometime i might use my last respec to put it in..

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a storm defender in a all-blaster group against predominatly melee mobs (if the stormer has hurricane)

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Don't agree with this:
Firstly the Blasters are going to be damaging them & hence drawing the aggro. So although you'd be able to survive against the melee mobs you won't be managing the aggro the way a decent tank can.


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you dont have to agree that the above method would work, I can only speak from experience that it does (against Tsoo)
The Stormer and blasters worked as a single unit where any aggroed mobs would run forward towards the player group just to be knockbacked by the hurricane and then be shot dead. The whole group worked as a single aggro manager, instead of leaving the task to a specific AT. I only mentioned the defender specifically as it was the cornerstone to making the tactics work.
It became so easy to clean the map it became dull..

But what do I know, it wasnt like I was there or anything. (lie)

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Well, on a large team I'm there's often a slim chance that there is a Controller or Defender, often negating any real need for Taunt.

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This often negates the need for a tanker too.

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The controller one I get.

What defenders negate the need for a tank?

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a storm defender in a all-blaster group against predominatly melee mobs (if the stormer has hurricane)

Gratz. I had a feeling you were close last night

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Golden Golem has the Statesman Arc open too. Unfortunately he had to kill off Atta and some measly level 25 Sky Raiders to get the Arc to start but now he is ready to go.....

So yours or mine?

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Let's see what the show-up rate is like.. If it's anything like last weeks 3rd respec TF we'll end up in 2 teams racing it, which should be fun , and we'll need both our arcs to do that (although I've already got through the first couple of missions I think there's more then enough left for the evening)

I'm talking myself into a position where I end up on the team with the 'picked-up' tank again aren't I...

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Now now, I wasnt THAT bad was I?
That said, If you still dont have a tank come friday, and Im on, im up for it.

i believe tough hide not only doesnt have any end drain (thus cannot untoggle) but also have a greater defense buff than weave as well as a buffing almost all your defences apart from "only" Smash and lethal.

About unstoppable, its definately a "oh ****" -power. its the one power that will help you survive team wipes, tank Arch villains and make you feel quite "super". You wont use it often.

what does worry me a bit about your bild is that you dont have any good resists apart from S/L since you dont have res energy and elements. They are our weaknesses, without those powers it will be more so.
As someone said as a advice about INV powers, "take them all"

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The question you have to ask yourself is this - if I'm tanking for a large team and I suddenly pop phase shift, where will all the aggro go? Nowhere good is the quick answer

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It's the ultimate Statesman Tanker utility. Taking on S/L minions, and if greater ranked mobs or mobs dealing other damage would happen to be aggroed to him, pop Phase Shift and let the rest of the team deal with it .

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yeeess.. thats also a concern i suppose.. will gauntlet and taunt from invincibility be enough to keep the mobs attention to me...

thats prolly a question towards anyone who has ever used Phase shift.. tanker or no. If the AI of the mobs think "I cant hurt this one" and runs over to another.. then yes, i guess its less useful.

apart from that, i was more thinking of it as a power to be used when the **** hits the fan, like if im running on US to avoid a teamwipe and see the imminent crash getting closer.

Lasting 30sec makes it sound like a click power, but my manual says toggle.. so will it untoggle when i crash?
tell you what, ill try it out, I can always respec if it dont turn out like i'd like it,

started tinkering with the idea about getting stealth-> Invisibility-> phase shift on my tank.
30 secs of complete immortality does have a certain appeal to it. Also, I worked in a suitable concept on how it would fit the rest of my powers, and thats probably the most important part.
Any thoughts about this?

Ive run some numbers thru hero builder and it would seem i would get a pretty good defence (much better than just weave) against all 'part psionics.
I know some people like tough and weave.. but i really dont need another attack, and as Invulnerable I've got a really good resist against S/L anyway.

My worries are End issues, (i plan on at least double slot for end redux) althought this might be mitigated a bit with conserve power that I took as my 1st (and only) ancillary.

second issue is, since Psi is more or less my achilles heel, will Phase shift protect against this?

allow me to expand upon my earlier thoughts. Those were written in the dead of night so no wonder if they appear more aggressive that theyre supposed to be.
Now its morning and hopefully my mind has been calmed after som much needed sleep.

Anyway. In my opinion to switch around the order of which two powers are gained are a good move so as to make the AT appear more powerful earlier on. After all, it is in the first 10 levels you create your opinion of the AT. If you dont like what you see, it just becomes another never played alt on the character list as well as another heroic name noone else can use.
But it doesnt make the AT "scranky" because it dont in the least alter the final build at all.
Had they, as per my suggestion, replaced taunt with another attack then i wouldnt had argued if someone said it had become more offensive and used the word scrank.
What it does however is to make some builds "illegal" so here im wondering if tankers gonna get a free respec..

Secondly im really not offended by the word scrank. Because i actually consider myself blessed by the fact that whenever i recieve a invite, be it blind or otherwise, I KNOW why i got it. My task is defined and my purpose clear. Simply because there are not many alternate ways to do it-
I go in and start weaving and hope i will remain alive long enough for the rest to either a) heal me, b) lock down or debuff opponents c) remove aggro from me in chunks they can handle themselves or d) kill them off fast as they possibly can.

Unlike a defender i dont have to worry about "R U H34lorzz" syndrome as there are so many different variations in powersets for that AT. Nor do i have to excuse myself as ive seen blappers do about their constant faceplanting.

Actually whats making me so annoyed is from when i played a warrior in WoW.
I liked to play my warrior with two swords and later on with a twohanded sword.. and there was no end to the "you should go defensive and use shield" so i could Main Tank proper..
Now i wasnt a bad warrior, I did have a pretty good shield i could use when facing hard mobs.
Nobody gave me all these advice because they thought i was a bad tank. No, they did it because they knew everything and wanted to help me become better..
Why thanks, when i want your advice ill ask for it.
Im doing pretty ok here.
If you want to play with two swords have you considered playing a Rogue?
Yes, dont like it, i want to play a warrior.
But youre playing it wrong...
Shut up.

Now, im aware there is a long way between the Tank in CoH and the Warrior of WoW, and yet still the same.
This makes me always stand on the scrankers side in the debate every time its brought up, and im not even a Scranker.. I have every power in my primary pool as high as the ED lets me without slotting waste.

"they"?

who are these "they"?

States? Cryptic? The players?

My votes for the new players.. when i started my tank i had images of the Thing, Thor, Colossus, Hulk, Superman. I did NOT have the image of a boxing ball.
I resent the notion that a tank shouldnt be able to defeat his own opponents.
Players themselves have come upon these very boards complaining about not "feeling heroic" enough as tanks.. so they scrap their tank and make themselves a scrapper or blaster instead. It took me until level 35 so i could get energy transfer before i actually got the "wow" feeling, soloing or in team.
So now they switch two powers around that doesnt affect you the slightest and suddenly cryptic is making you "scranky"? If i had my way id suggest them to REMOVE taunt.. replace it with another attack. You want to hurl insults? Get Provoke..
If this makes me a Scranker im sorry..
No, damned if I am. I resent the use of the word Scranker.. its just like the word "Offender".. something that implies that "youre not playing your AT right..."

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My Tanker Sucks, what am I doing wrong?

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the flippant answer is to say tanking. Post ED tanks have suffered probably more than any other AT. Still love em though...

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I fail to see how ED affects level 11 tanks though, at that level you hardly have enough slots to spare to even 4 slot a specific power let alone 5 or 6 slot them.
You dont have many Single Origin enhancments either...
My point is, If people complain about playing tanks at low levels isnt fun or to hard.. blaming ED is totally up the wrong alley.
The post level 30 game is maybe another thing mind you, but I dont have any experience herding insane amounts of mobs so that a team of blasters can Aim+buildup+ AoE them all to oblivion.... Cant say i miss it either.
Nor can i Solo Arch-Villains.. but the again I have a feeling im not supposed to either.


I still love my tank too though

what about "Sneaky", it works as a reversal of the Tanks Gauntlet, so instead of increasing aggro, you get less aggro..

i like it.
just Joined the other night. Babel playing requests was a especially nice touch.

I dont have it, nor do i have Provoke. Having mostly soloed thus far it would have just been a waste of slot on my action bar as well as lowering my offensive powers.

Only one time have i experienced another player voice his concern about me lacking in taunt.. and that was a Blaster who wanted to show off his Nova.
Turned out that only thing he needed to do was to time it better until after id moved into melee instead of before
Its possible ill pick it up for the endgame i guess, i can afford that now, as i finally have transfer energy for all my offensive needs, (thinking of slotting the bugger with double recharge hehe)

Ye, dont get taunt. Pick up another primary for defence. recommended is DP, i use it as a "heal" so i dont waste it unnecessarily, lowering the downtime waiting for recharge.

As someone said, its not really useful when soloing at the lower levels and wait for it until later.
I would however suggest not picking it up at all.. as a Inv tank you should always be at the vanguard picking up the initial aggro from the entire group, making a jump rite into the middle of the mobs, attacking the highest mob possible. (and hoping the group picked up a healer..)
with invincibility that you can pick up at level 18 this tactic becomes even more preferred.

Second tip is to drop your rep down to heroic as already been mentioned. It takes a while for the tanker to shine but when they do they SHINE.. (especially the Inv, in more ways than one ) At level 36 i can two-shot yellow minions and solo purple bosses.. and i dont even think my build is by any means perfect, so just hang in there and be patient.

Just a hunch, but i "think" it goes up when you group instead of solo.