CrazyJerseyan

Solo, the biggest damage mitigation I have is striking the boss and killing it quickly with a couple applications of Incandescent Strike; running with 2100hps, having resistance shields +30%, and a heal that cycles through every 18 secs helps me easily finish off minions.

Looking at your build, you have already put a lot of effort and money into it, more than I did mine (with the purple set). I could see if you were running on SOs, but your current build is heavily IOd. Other than the HOs, you can run tip mishs to get some of the more expensive IOs pretty quickly.

Well I tried, after all of this...I'd say stick to running other ATs if you still feel they are stronger toons. I wasn't trying to build an AV killer, but my last recommendation at this point would be to strip your PB and plus up your Defenders, especially if you can run one solo with 2100hps that can do close to 2k worth of damage in the 1st attack cycle with BU. Good luck and have fun regardless of what you decide to play

Star, I have been looking at your build in my spare time. First, take a look at this thread...(post #3, props to Big_Soto), it's what I looked at when playing with respecs on my human PB a few times last month:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=246739

General things that I usually look at on Mids depending on AT and what I see in your build:
+dmg @ 13% (I'm at about 20.5% +dmg with Assault and IOs)
global recharge @ 61.25% with close to perma hasten @ 131.3%
global accuracy @ 32%
resistance smash/lethal-51.2%, fire/cold-2.5%, nrg/neg-42.5%, tox-15%, psi-6%
max hp @ 172.9%
KB protection @ 8
status resistances hold-30%, stun-32.2%, sleep-86.7%, immob-37.2

Again, I'm no Mids expert and my slotting isn't pro insight like a Silas (props), but just what works for me and the concept of my toon. I don't have purple sets in mine, but I think I have 1x purple IOs in GBolt (Apoc dmg proc) and Photon Seekers (Soulbound dmg/rch). Lets take a look at some of your powers and possible slotting...

G Bolt - Can be slotted many different ways with 3 set types to pick from. I respecced a few times shooting for +hps initially and finished with treating GB like Neutrino Bolt for Defs/Corrs with a cast time of 1sec and recharge time of 1.5sec. You can basically spit this out every second and it seems the strength is loading it with procs to up the dmg. I put it on auto and let it go.
- 3x Ruin for 12.5hps, 3x Devastations (w/hold proc for mitigation) for 24.1hps = ~50dmg and +36hps
- 2x HOs acc/dmg, 1x Achilles Heel res debuff, 1x ToLG chance of dmg, 1x Apoc chance of dmg, 1x Devastation chance hold = ~100dmg with all procs firing every second

Incandescence - I went with +hps and extra status resitance.
- 3x Impervious Skin for 16.6hps + 7.5% status resistance, 1x Aegis status resisitance mainly for 20% status resitance increase

G Blast - Same as G Bolt with 4 set types to pick from. I slotted mine similiar to yours.
- 5x Decimations for 12.5hps + 6.25% global recharge, 1x Devastation hold proc = ~150dmg

Essence Boost - Looks like you are permad for 1851hps with hasten up.
- 2x Miracles for 2.5%, 4x Numinas for 20.8hps + 6% global heal increase

Radiant Strike - I usually use this to finish off semi hard targets to negate the KB issue; I slotted mine similiar to yours.
- 5x Crushing Impact for 5% recharge + 12.5hps, 1x ToLG chance of dmg = ~214dmg

Incandescent Strike - Same as the other attacks with 5 sets types to pick from; similiar slotting.
- 5x Crushing Impact for 5% + 12.5hps, 1x anything with recharge or dmg proc = ~370dmg

Shields (Shining/Quantum/Thermal) - I decided to finally leave out Tough/Weave and took all 3x shields slotting for resistance and endurance.
- 3/4x Titanium Coating for 16.6hps + mezresist sleep/stun 2.2% + status resitance 7.5%, 1x Impervious Skin status resist 7.5% proc

Getting winded at this point so take a look at the build I posted in the thread. A lot of ways you can get better dmg by using procs and also increasing your mez resistances. Our builds are similiar in a lot of ways with similiar stats. I recommend definitely getting your accolades which I never did before casual PvP, six slotting IS and focusing on your attack chain. Minus Seekers, it looks like you have 7 attacks and I would say you probably dont need all of those unless you just like them (Glinting Eye does look pretty hot). I am running a good chain with 5, six slotted attacks.
- steal a couple of slots from Health unless you just prefer higher regen rates
- take Acrobatics to free a couple of slots used for KB IOs
- possibly go with Leadership for +13.5% dmg
- more slots into BU, you're currently at 39sec recharge w/hasten up; we have the same global recharge approximately and my BU is at 27sec recharge...faster BU =s more dmg
- may as well throw a lv50 heal IO into Glowing Touch instead of a lv44 heal SO
- look at using 7.5% global rechages in your build instead of a purple set and taking Pulsar for what looks like a 6.25% recharge mule; they're easy to get running hero/vill tip mishs

Don't forget to take a look at the post by Big_Soto that I linked up top. Hope some of this helps you; I just read Moonlit's recoomendations and liked them as well. If you still feel like playing your PB solo is a slight step up from a Defender in terms of survivabilty and damage, I don't know what else to say but wish you luck.

An older build I found on my laptop while I'm on the road. Its made to play similiar to a Scrapper on TF runs, but I tried to work on some of the weaknesses for solo content too (+hps, Status Resistances etc). It's not perfect I'm sure, but it works for me so far. Let me know if anyone sees anything to improve on.

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No problem Joe, I'm not that great with Mids but borrow from other builds a lot to try and make mine based off of that.

I never said, "You say you've never seen any archetype play well on SO's", but I did say, "I don't think any toon plays as well on SOs vs IOs". Biiiiiiiig difference man. Trying to build a Scrapper PB, I don't think the build is that awesome at all because I'm sure a lvl50 IOd Scrapper's #s make my PB look very meh. I like my Scrappers, but just haven't been able to get any of them past lvl25-30 b/c I have always been more of a ranged toon type and that's why I decided to put this PB together awhile back.

I totally agree with you and I didn't IO this PB to try to make it uber. Like I said, I start frakenslotting and IOing all my toon around lvl15. It's so cheap and easy, I don't know why anyone still uses SOs unless they are very new to the game. I just never have seen some of the glaring deficiencies others have posted and I admit that is probably due to IOs and Cosmic Balance always being on.

Can you imagine how a PB would play being rebalanced with the recommendations in this thread AND being IOd or purpled? I think it could make other toons obsolete lol.


"Between the two of them, they can do 1000 damage every ten seconds just by cycling through their attacks. I don't think what you're saying would be too powerful at all in that light."
I know my WS is OMFG amazing on IOs, but never played it with SOs. If the timer was reduced and damage output kept the same on Seekers where I could do 700+dmg every 10secs on top of my normal attack cycle, I'm all for that. I say . . . BUFF PBS!

I hear you and agree, just as much as a lot of other ATs/powersets could use a buff, PBs could too.

More people probably would use Pulsar based on your suggestion. I am able to currently stun Bosses since Incandescent Strike cycles through every 6secs. With it doing about 380dmg (~700 with CB + BU), I never bothered slotting for holds because I went for the Scrapper approach on my build.

Photon Seekers are on a long recharge but I look more at the damage numbers. Defender Seekers are on a 90sec cycle with the base damage at like 28dmg while PB Seekers are based at 273dmg. I currrently have mine on a 90sec recharge doing almost 600dmg and again with CB+BU, they are at about 1000dmg. The Seekers would do even more damage if could six slot them, but I ran out. I'm a fan of Defender Rain of Arrows but if it was putting up those kind of #s, I'd be pretty impressed. Would I like Seekers to do 1000dmg every 30secs on a faster recharge timer...sure.

My concern with the 'buff PBs' conversation is that certain changes would probably also call for other aspects to be debuffed. With the Seekers example, I don't think the devs would allow them to do 1000dmg every 30secs, seems like it would be too powerful.

I just happen to play the toon the way I think the devs intended with the inherent constantly on. I have no complaints because I IOd my PB trying to eliminate some of the weaknesses and CB does the rest. I am fortunate because I have a large VG, probably too many people on my globals and plugged into all the TF Channels, so I am usually on a team (on all of my toons). If we had the choice to turn off inherent buffs and someone expressed concerns about Trollers not doing enough damage but didn't use Containment, then yeah. With everything said and done though, I speed villain tips on +2/x2 and I don't have any more problems than I would on my other toons because of the way I built it.

Red, I will take a look at you build later because after reading your posts in both threads, I realize you're not like some of the others simply stating that PBs need a buff. It seems like your looking at PBs and WSs, saying that PB's powers don't synergize etc in comparison. Even though I'm not a Mids master, I was going to try tweaking your build to up the performance but I won't be able do anything to make a PB's powers mesh better compared to WSs.

With what you say in your post, I agree with you...WS > PB as far as how powers are laid out etc. When everything is said and done, I've never been comfortable comparing ATs or even powersets within ATs. For instance, I don't see the point in saying that WSs are underpowered compared to PBs in PvP; the things that make WSs so powerful in PvE seem like they also make them one of the weaker ATs to play in that environment. Its just a moot point to me.

Hey, just sitting down for the 1st time since posting last and I'm looking at Red's/Star's builds now. Honestly Joe, I'm not opposed to PBs getting a buff, but I'm saying they currently work fine for me. I can't remember when I stopped using SOs completely (probaly i11 or i12) but running on SOs is like having the money to buy a new Lexus but deciding to purchase a 1989 Honda instead. Nothing wrong with that, but I just can't do it since you get so much more performance out of IOs AND they're so easy to get now even if you don't want to spend a lot of money. Why run around with a Defender that has 1000hps when you can vroom vroom it up and operate with 1300 or 1400?

I don't think any toon plays as well on SOs vs IOs, but it sounds like PBs actually need them to be able to go hard. I am going to pass on the SO challenge and say that I agree with you b/c I really do. I just hate to see so many people dislike or not play a PB when I know they're probably basing that opinion on prebuffed conditions or running it strictly on SOs. It is what it is...all I can do is enjoy mine and throw my 2cents in here and there.

Awhile back, Solient Green told me to figure out what I wanted to maximize on my PB in PvP and to run with that instead of trying to build on everything. Because they're more of a meh 5 in 1 tool...I focused on the couple of things that I wanted to do well, pushed it that direction and that's what Ive done with my human form build now also. I am not trying to use Pulsar to stun opponents, duke it out with minions or really heal allies; my goal for this build was to run in with Scrappers/Brutes and do as much damage as possible to hard targets. I'm on the road but have an older build with me on the laptop before I tweaked it's current form. Really looking forward to you dropping the #s and let me be the 1st to say thanks for putting in the time.

Ah. Like I said, unless im speeding tip mishs for merits I always have 7 teamates swarming around me. What about you Red...have a PB build that you want to post? I always feel like people in the "PBs r meh camp" are usually using i2 builds and haven't played their toons recently. I'd love to see what you are working with.

Cosmic Balance only works sometimes? I never noticed that, but sorry your PB feels so underwhelming. I feel like my dmg output is fine without CB, but on teams, it's like I am getting a constant Fulcrum Shift. I kill fine with an attack cycle that puts out ~900dmg over the course of 8-10secs without CB, BU or Photon Seekers soaking up a mob's alphas and doing 550+dmg. Not sure how that compares to your other toons, but I always felt like my PB was comparable to my Blasters...minus the AOEs and that's fine since I run him as a Scrapper solo on +2/x2 for villain tips farming. I only have a few Scrappers that I enjoy but haven't pushed them past 30 so I don't have a grasp on a comparison there.

Post your build if you don't mind, I'd like to take a look and see if I can find a reason why your PB feels so weak.

I agree and also wish that Solar Flare would be turned into a Footstomp clone with KD instead of KB. I eventually specced out of it for Protton Scatter which does less dmg, but fires off every 4secs for a little bit of AOEness.

After viewing some of the Human PB posts (props to Dawun, Big Soto and others) and ones like this that speak on the inherent weaknesses of the AT, I just tried to max out certain things in order to get that scrapperish feel.

basics:
- all Status Resistances at 120%-130%, except Stun at 75%
- accolades (all of my toons), +hps IOs, perma Essence Boost for ~2100 hps
- increased recharge for fast attack cycles and heals
- Acrobatics for KD and Hold Protection
- Reform Essence recharges 17secs for almost 600hps

attacks:
- Gleaming Bolt - 2x acc/dmg HOs, 2x dmg procs, 1x res debuff proc and 1x hold proc
cast time/recharge is 1 second, hold procs fire often for extra mitigation
- Gleaming Blast - 5x Decimation for 6.25% rch, 1x hold proc

- Protton Scatter, Radiant Strike and Incandescent Strike all cycling under 6secs
Mids showing: 100dmg, 200dmg and 380dmg without the CB buff or BU recharging 25secs

with CB possibly (depending on team makeup):
PS -150dmg (180 w/BU) 4secs
RS - 326dmg (380 w/BU) 5sec
IS - 571dmg (673 w/BU) 6secs

- Photon Seekers recharging 90secs
581dmg, 900+dmg w/CB, 1100 w/CB+BU

I know Mids doesn't always give the real deal and these #s aren't exact based on Cosmic Balance, but this is about all I can come up with and leave the real stats to the #s guys. With Cosmic Balance doing what it does, I don't have any of the issues that people typically point out as being problems with PBs such as poor survivability, low hps, anemic damage or mezzing (not sure the last time I had to pop a BF, I do get mezzed once in a blue but it's clear within 1-2 secs).

Obviously this is with IOs, but no purple sets and with hero/villain merits available, the build wasn't expensive. I rarely solo any of my toons except to farm and I just use this 1 as another TF toon along with my WSs so YMMV reference specific performance.

Thanks Jam

Thanks a lot Clave and crew...I appreciate all the help.

Sure, I know...I wasn't trying to point out baselines or argue the virtues of x, y and z etc. There's been enough of that already...either you love, hate or are indifferent reference PBs and 6 pages into this thread, I don't think anyone's opinions have changed. I was just stating what I do with my Human PB.

On TF teams, the toon seems to pump out solid damage (doesn't outperform a Scrapper I'm sure, but with Cosmic Balance sometimes doubling damage I wish I could see a comparison chart...CB+BU+IS is hitting for close to 700 points on Mids, don't know how that translates in the game though) and I may die once if I'm not paying attention to Lightform dropping during the AV fight but I don't remember the last time that happened. If people are basing their PB underperformance issues on SO builds, I can't say much b/c I start frankenslotting or using basic IOs around lvl15 on all of my toons...just my preference.

I'm looking forward to seeing your results on PB #s and yeah, Cosmic Balance IS a real blast.

Thank you also Bliss, I appreciate it.

Thanks a lot Werner, MA/DA was my original concept a few months back but I never did it. Doesn't KM have 3 attacks with stun as well? Not leaning either way at this point, just trying to make up my mind before jumping into it.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of people saying PBs or other toons are fine as they are either, especially if they are really underperforming.

**hugs Starcloud**

Built up frustration causes health issues.

Its all good and I understand your side of the discussion. I purposefully wrote up my 2 cents to avoid the "this is better than that" chat b/c its a moot point to me. These posts are where min maxers strive; but you don't need to really discuss that there are a lot of toons that people would enjoy more if brought upto par with others...isn't that a given? I've seen the same thing said for Merc MMs vs every other MM...some people feel its needs upgrading, others enjoy Mercs the way they are (same for Stalkers).

I think everyone can agree if the Devs did away with all the "underperforming" ATs/powersets and we just had a handful of "superior" ATs, the game would get old quick. Variety is where its at...play what you like, b/c you are not going to change other's preferences. I mean, I'm working on a petless MM...DS/Dark. Can't get much gimpier than that, but I like the whip animations and feel like you can make anything play well in PvE with a certain build and proper IOs. Performance aside, I'm doing it because I like it and not basing my decision on "but a MM with pets or a Corruptor could kill a mob 16.4 seconds faster".

I get a lot of compliments when I play my Human PB on TFs since Cosmic Balance really kicks in I suppose...no problem with damage output or resistance. But yeah, thats with CB, IOs for +recharge for 2100 hps with perma Dull Pain clone and damage and hold procs for solid play. I get compliments when I run my WS as well, it rocks socks and at the end of the day, I just enjoy playing them all.

Take it easy guys.

Are you sure that you weren't directing this at someone you were arguing with on page 2 or 3? I don't think I've missed any points of the discussion since I read most of the comments here. I also didn't say anything about most saying PBs are unplayable...at least not in this thread. Anytime I post here, its not a personal attack or supporting one camp of Khelds versus the other, but more on the side of play what you enjoy playing.

Some people prefer to play WSs and others prefer PBs...going on for 5 pages about #s, IOs, content and tactics isn't going to change that feeling for most. I'm in the camp that enjoys both, the same way I like my Elec/Shield and my Dark/WP Scrappers. I'm going to leave it at that before you or someone else here decides to call me "kiddo", "baddo" or some other Arena Channel insult.

Like I said earlier, good information from the Kheld community. Lively debates make the world go round, just hate to see people devolve into name calling over "this toon is better than that toon" posts.