CoyoteShaman
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Posts
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Joined
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I read Plasma's guide and while I can see where a lot of it is still very relevant, a lot of it is also based on the idea that the inherent doesn't follow through the forms and things detoggle when mezzed. I'm certain those two changes make some significant differences in play styles. What have people noticed those particular points do to their tactics and build tendencies?
EDIT: Oh, and also that the Dwarf now acts as a break-free. -
I'm simply stunned that this didn't turn into a massive flame war. People are, for the most part, actually discussing options in a relatively adult manner. I'm very pleased.
ST, I agree whole-heartedly about a temp-power based moderate duration buff. Making it a temp power instead of just a buff means you can log off and when you come back on you still get it for the rest of your time. I think the buff would have to be something that wouldn't help you not die, however, because otherwise it would be self-reinforcing. I would think we wouldn't want the reward for not dying make it easier to get the reward for not dying, if that makes sense. Maybe a small bonus that varied depending on AT or something like that. What do I know. I just start smack to get the smart people to figure out the real stuff. It's a Coyote thing.
Robin -
Quote:ST, I'd say this is brilliant. I always prefer the Positive Reinforcement side of Operant Conditioning but this would allow them to go one step further: make those badges give minor buffs for a certain amount of time, or make the major ones combine into an accolade. Then there would be a major incentive to not die which would have the same emotional impact as a penalty for dying, but would only do it from the plus side of the emotional equation. That's great leadership.Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I think the Masters badges are an excellent example of the kind of "death penalty" that would be positive. A wholly optional challenge, that grants nothing but bragging rights. The Ouroboros badges for running arcs without dying are also good in this regard.
The balancing point for risk and reward is simply that as difficulty increases, it becomes hard to fight efficiently. In that respect, the trip to the hospital is a sufficient penalty - that's time wasted in zoning and traveling that could have been spent killing things.
This is why I started this thread. I was hoping something I'd never heard of or thought of before would be presented that I could get behind 100%.
/signed!
EDIT: Why is it that all the people I'd most like to give positive reputation to are the ones that have disabled their reputation? Sheesh. -
This is great, guys. I'm getting a lot out of this. What I'm getting the most is that I need three specific things:
First, I can't find any thread/guide that talks about the differences in play-styles between the several types (WSH/WSHN/WSHD/WSTF/PBH/PBHN/PBHD/BPTF) at the different levels. I imagine it's because there's just too damn much to go into and folks tend to know a lot about one or two particular types. Such a comparison/contrast at various level stages would be a huge help in understanding how they work. It would take a vast amount of time and effort, though, I'd bet.
Second, I need to ask a question. To wit, without slotting IOs (common or sets) at all, what diff settings would people think one should expect to be able to run on at the various level stages without feeling like they're doing something obviously wrong? I'd use this as a bench-mark for deciding if I really need to come back here to ask more questions or to start teaching (yeah right) others...
Lastly, another question. Aside from AlienOne's extremely helpful WSH guide, why are all the other guides so out of date? Are there any that were written after the Kheld buff that took place a couple issues back? Out of date information can be worse than none sometimes.
Robin -
Quote:Again I say: I'm not in favor of this and am not arguing in favor of it.Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Greater risks associated with death encourage a more conservative playstyle. Do you want everyone to always play as if they were on a Masters badge run? I don't.
So Trashcan, please answer these questions:
1) Do you think there should be no threat/risk to "death"?
2a) Do you think the current risk:reward ratio is correct?
2b) If not, What kind of risk or threat do you think would make the game more exciting, if any?
3) Do you think there would be any amount of XP loss (waived for 50s) that would make a good threat but not be too much?
Just tryin' to inspire some creative ideas. -
Bill, I always respect your input. Especially in this case when it was so exactly what I was hoping would be the response.
Again, not arguing in favor of this, but 50s would obviously have to be immune to this as a reward for getting to 50.
As to the rest of what you said, it sounds like either you think there shouldn't be a risk:reward ratio (which I'm almost certain is not what you think). Do you currently think the risk:reward ratio is correct? Do you think there would be any amount of XP loss (waived for 50s) that would make a good threat but not be too much? What kind of risk or threat do you think would make the game more exciting, if any?
Robin -
First let me say this is just an idea off the top of my head, not actually a suggestion I would necessarily argue in favor of, so please don't flame me too hard...
There have been several threads that I've seen about the reward/risk debate and suggestions about how to fix debt as well as people starting to say it's too easy to level quickly (which really confuses me since you can turn off xp, but what do I know). So I had a wacky idea. I'm kinda full of wacky ideas today. As well as something else, but I'm always full of that so whatever.
Anyway, lots of people are saying that debt no longer constitutes a meaningful risk in CoX. I'd have to agree with that point. Some have even implied that it's too low/small to make any real difference. So my thought is what if we reduce the amount by say 75 - 90% but make it an XP loss instead of just being debt you have to pay off. You could even drop a level which would lower your combat level and make the gained slots/powers unavailable until you earn it back. Now I'd say that's a threat. That's why they'd have to drop the amount significantly. Right now the reason for it is to slow your progress for a short time, but you don't actually lose anything from it.
This would certainly need to be very well fleshed out and it's really just a thought experiment for me, but it would certainly put a damper on those Leroy Jenkin's types and make people think twice about rushing into massive spawns of purples.
They could even make it only hit when you rez so if you have to use a hospital the amount is 1x, but if you go to your base it's .75x, if you get rezzed by a teammate it's .5x and if you self-rez it's .25x. Again, just a thought experiment, not a suggestion of real numbers. X could be like 1 - 3% of total xp needed during the current level or something. Whatever.
Okay, let the massive screams and protests begin! (I'm such provocateur) -
Quote:I like this idea best.Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Or, a solution that'd make a little sense: Fade between the different symbols in that circle. Show your level, then fade to the SG symbol, and fade to the TF/SF symbol (and change the color of your level to show if you've leveled up, lked, or exemplared). Long as there's a gentle fade it shouldn't be visually distracted.
/signed -
I did a search and couldn't find anything. This is the best forum I could think of to post this, so that's why it's here. If it should be somewhere else, please let me know.
I don't know if it's allowed, but since we now have the ability to save off custom costume files and custom power schemes, it might be nice to share them with others. I'd hope this would be allowed as it's certainly allowed to share them between computers and such, but if a redname could post it might set some people's minds at ease, assuming they even want to do this.
For those that do want to do this, and feel comfortable doing so, it might be nice to post the text of your costume/power coloration scheme file along with a description of what it's about or what it would be for. In this case of costumes, we'd need the model/body type. In the case of powers we'd need the primary/secondary powersets. Other information such as the "feel" you were trying for might also be nice.
Does anyone else think this is a good idea?
Robin -
I want to make sure I'm understanding what I've been reading here. I've had a bunch of Khelds and only gotten one (a WS) past level 10. She made it to 35 or so before I del'd her. I'd like to try again so I figured I'd come over here and read what the devotees had to say.
Now that I've read a few threads on guides and tactics and comparisons and builds etc. I would like to summarize what I think I've learned and see if folks agree that I've understood what the general consensus is. Mind you, I'm not talking about particular points or what this expert or that expert has to say, but what the gestalt mind has to say about Kheldians.
So here are the major points I've picked up:
- Between Warshades and Peacebringers, most folks think Peacebringers are the less well-developed/balanced of the two.
- The reason for that is that WSs include some controller type powers while the PBs include some defender type powers and the former goes farther during solo.
- Warshades (my focus from here on out because I like the pretty purple) are easiest to run as a tri-form until you reach the highest levels, after which any combo is easily feasible.
- They're pretty expensive to do right in terms of enhancements which means
- they're likely not balanced as well as they could be
- one has to be ready to work for something other than XP in order to advance them like they need to be
- Once you get them decked out the way they need to be, you still have to be careful to watch your tactics.
- Keybinds are even more essential for them than for the standard ATs
- They're so adaptable and complex that one can't really talk about the perfect build.
So what do you think: does that pretty much sum it up so far? What else, in very general terms, should one take away from reading the Kheldian forums?
Thanks for your feedback, folks.
Robin -
Actually I agree that it's an unnecessary action to open the SG window. We didn't need to before and we still don't for some SG logos, as Bill indicated.
I think the color ring would be best as the level indicator is applicable (not needed or even necessarily wanted, but applicable) to everyone pre-50 and the SG Mode indicator is only applicable to those in SGs. I would think the one with wider applicability, in this case the level indicator, should be the more easily discernible.
As an alternative to the color ring, it might be nice to allow for windows to be colored differently when in SG mode (likely pretty complex to code and not worth it) or for the SG name/symbol to be shown below the control bar (health/end/xp/menu/buff icons).
One wacky idea (that would really suck for long SG names) would be to replace the "Super Group" window text on the chat window menu with the SG name when in SG mode. Read "wacky" as really bad and stupid; I'm only putting it in here because I'm in a wacky mood and think levity is worth it.
Another alternative that would be really nice is for them to implement back logos for costumes like the chest logos. Then people could put the SG logo on their back when in SG mode, but people who aren't in SGs could still use it for their costume.
Lots and lots of options. -
I like furries. Okay, that's not relevant...
I would love to have animate tails, but more immediately I'd like a wider variety of long tails (as opposed to the bunny fluff thing). Wolf, Fox, etc.
Just sayin'.
Robin -
Want change. Old = bad. Different = good.
That's for all things, IMO. As to the Stone Armor/Granite Armor particular case: I would be thrilled to have the current way of doing it go away forever. It just doesn't make any sense to me to be converted into something that looks vastly different than the character concept requires. Please forgive my saying so, but if people want a different look for one particular power, then costumes are the way to go. I don't design a character's look around one power and I don't want one power to completely change the character's look.
Thanks a TON for bringing this up and considering this, BaBs. It means a huge amount that you would look into this by asking the player base. I am surprised you didn't use an actual poll in the forums for it, though. #thingsthatmakeyougohmmm
Robin -
While I agree whole heartedly with your basic point, I won't comment on your potential solutions. What I will do is offer a partial solution that would actually be quite simple for the devs to implement and would go a long ways towards making villains feel more villainous.
<rant>
QUIT MAKING THE DAMN CONTACTS ACT LIKE WE'RE FLIES!
I was playing my 50 the other day and got a new contact. Went over to her and talked to her. The first thing she did was act like I was a lackey and passed me a mission she expressly said was beneath her. I'm a level 50 villain who has beaten Lord Recluse himself and I'M BENEATH YOU???
If we who can beat Lord Recluse are such wimps compared to all these damn contacts, why is LR in charge any more???
All the devs would have to do is make the contacts act appropriately timid and obsequious towards us and make the stories into us forcing the contacts to give us information and TADA! We're Villains!!! A simple change of wordage and text. Requires nothing major, except a story teller who doesn't want us all to feel like dirt.
Actually, the same thing goes to a lesser degree blue side. We're Heroes. Stop acting like you're our freakin' bosses.
</rant> -
Quote:Nope, it was probably re-posts of the survey. I've found something that looks like what I'm remembering and it's parts of the survey, supposedly. I'm going to assume that was it.Originally Posted by Shadow State
a few of the MMO news sites (I don't recall which) did a piece on the survey. I honestly don't recall any interview where the Devs talked about new advancement.
(The "nope" was meant to be me saying "nope" to myself about the interview and agreeing with you.) -
Quote:Quite likely, except I never got that survey so if that is it, I have to be remembering it from some reference thereto. I'll try to find the goll-durned interview...Originally Posted by Shadow State
Perhaps you're thinking of the Universal Enhancemant Slots from the Marketing Survey?
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Knowing what would happen if I used the kind of language this inspires, I'll refrain in an effort to keep my account.
I will simply say, instead, that you can keep your freakin' paws off my playstyle. I like to solo. I pay my money just like you do. When I team it's always on my terms and I'm never afraid to hit the quit button or the kick button. Please feel very free to never invite me to a team. If I ever get on a team with anyone having your attitude, I'd quit in a heartbeat.
As far as I'm concerned, the teaming aspect of this game is entirely secondary. They could do away with teaming altogether and I'd still play. I'm sure there are a ton more people like me out there. Teaming is fun once in a while, but mostly I prefer to solo.
I second SwellGuy's comment: the game is not being destroyed unless your idea gets implemented.
Robin -
Quote:Actually, I'm not sure it would be a problem for something else about the power being reduced. The range could be dropped a small bit without it being an extremely big deal, the recharge time could be increased, the endurance cost could be increased and/or interrupt time could be increased. As it is, the power is a very safe thing to use since they changed it to be undetectable by the enemies on a miss.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I just don't particularly see the need for it being an *attack* as well (when, likely, it would mean something else about the power being reduced.)
Now I think there would be a real problem if you put this into PvP, but I know so little about that side of the game that I won't try to address it. What I do think is that if you added another 10 or 15 seconds to the recharge, another 5 end to the cost and another one or two seconds to the interrupt time while also dropping the range down to 70' or maybe even requiring LOS (that might be enough by itself!) it would most certainly be worth making it an attack.
I would think, however, that adding a stun to it would make it way too powerful. You're already pulling the minion or LT away from the rest of their spawn so you're fighting it one-on-one. Making it drop or be unable to raise toggles and unable to fight back would be pretty much an I Win thing. Unless the stun was really, really short. 2 seconds maybe. Whatever. But a small amount of damage? I don't see why not.
And while I always respect Bill's opinions, I'll have to respectfully disagree on this one about the "everyone else has it" argument in this particular case. Jump, Flight and Speed all have some kind of attack power and the TP Foe is already obviously the Port's version of an attack power. After a fashion, Teleport already has it's attack power and TP Foe is already it. The only difference is that instead of damage you're pulling your foe to be fought one-on-one. A huge advantage on its own, surely, but not very appropriate to the power.
Mind you, I'm not suggesting it should be a fight-stopper. Quite the contrary, I think the damage it should do should be mostly for flavor. Brawl level. Or like the Stun power on Energy Melee. Very minor and just to symbolize the extreme shock to the system caused by the dimensional rip (or whatever). The only reason I think it should be damage instead of stun is for balance reasons. Stun (or both) would obviously be much more appropriate thematically, as you've both indicated, but I do think that would turn the power into something very, very potent as opposed to a level 6 pool power pick.
What do you think about that, Bill?
Robin -
Quote:I looked at that power. Suddenly the whole idea of Elec became shiney and new.Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
It's not +Health, but Elec come i16 will be getting a pretty sexy self heal in the form of Energize (replacing Conserver Power, does -end cost, +regen, and +heal). It has twice the recharge of Recon (so 1 minute with standard SO/common IO slotting), and a 30 second duration for the +regen/-end cost (so easy to get 50% uptime... making Power Sink seem almost skippable!
)
And the villains don't get it! MUAHAHAHAHA! Wait... I play villains too... Damn! -
Don't I recall an interview pertaining to GR that said they're going to be introducing a post-50 advancement mechanism involving special enhancement-type slots? I recall it saying you will be able to get up to ten of them (no indication of how) and that each one would allow for some kind of significant advantage to the character. I'm almost certain I didn't dream that. Can anyone back me up on that?
Robin -
Quote:You wouldn't be. I'd still be here, too. But if we team you'll have to lead. I hate the star.Originally Posted by SassySeduction
I would do it,, i wouldnt care if i was the only person playing,,I like this game that much.
Just my opinion. -
Quote:Not bad. We definitely need the inf leak. Even more than what this would do but any little bit helps.Originally Posted by Aphrael_EU
What they should do with GR, IMHO:
Rename Influence / Infamy into Credibility.
Merge the Black Market with Wentsworth.
Introduce a Vault Cred Account which is accessable for every character on an account and stores Credibility. Every time someone is taking Cred's from the account, the bank takes a 5% fee for handling, so it will act as Cred leak to the game. It would be a win - win situation. We get what we want, the Devs create a new currency leak.
Edit: Typos
Haven't given it a ton of thought, but at a glance I say I like it. -
Bill, I just had to chime in here and say that I notice you have been on the forums since Feb of '05. If we assume that means Feb 1 of '05 and we count through all of today, that means you've been able to post for 1668 days. You have 26,442 posts. If we assume you've posted every single day since you registered with the forum (which I highly doubt), that means you've averaged 15.85 posts per day. Even if we assume an average post is 20 words (which is pretty small but smooths things out for posts like "/signed" and such) and an average word is 5 characters (which is the standard for typing tests) that's 1585 words per day. According to a question asked in the New York Times, the average newspaper article length, at least for that institution, is 1200 words.
I'm going to hazard a guess and say that a regular, amateur columnist would earn an average fee for each article of about $10 (much more for a few, much less or nothing for most). That means you've written almost 530,000 words and done over $16,680 worth of work for the city of heroes forums over the last 4 years or so. And you likely haven't been paid or even offered a dime.
I think too much.
Robin -
Quote:Gotcha. Thank you for elaborating.Originally Posted by Ultimo_
I wouldn't suggest that every threat should be soloable, but if it's soloable by one character, it should be (in theory) soloable by ALL characters, though with varying difficulty. The thing that got me wasn't that I couldn't beat him, it's that I couldn't even HURT him (while he was doing enough damage to defeat me in one shot, with many of his attacks). To me, it's not fun fighting a foe you can't even hurt. I might have no chance of beating him, but at least let me feel like I'm accomplishing something.
I like a challenge. That means hard. It's not a challenge if you just walk all over your opponents. It's also not a challenge if they just walk all over you. Futility and Challenge are mutually exclusive.
I don't know if I agree with you on the "If one AT/set can do it, any any AT/set can do it" philosophy. My gut says no, but my head says yes. When removing the "beat him" and replacing it with "at least make him know I showed up before he beats me into a bloody stain" I'd say that I absolutely agree.
The problem, however, is that this was AE. I haven't built many missions (at last count my published missions was exactly 0 and my missions in testing phase was exactly 1) but isn't it true that the outcomes in AE can't be considered representative of the outcomes in normal missions? I'm not talking about custom critters which we all know are hugely different from standard critters. If someone came as close as possible to exactly duplicating a regular mission in AE, wouldn't the AE version and the regular version be noticeably different in difficulty? I have no experience with that so I'm curious as to how that would effect the outcome, and therefore the validity, of your experiment.
(And I agree, that other guy's response was way out of line.)
Robin -
Quote:Nobody is crying about anything. That's kind of a silly thing to say. My point is that these devs have the ability to build some truly epic things and this time they didn't. Just sayin'. Done now.Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
In the end, it is up to you to decide how special you want to pretend your character is. The fact is that no matter what you play, your character is not special. At all. And this is a natural and inevitable consequence of current MMO design, so there's no use crying about it.