Cognito

The above was hypothetical.

In many peoples opinion, mine included, tauntless tanks are second rate. At least for fast paced playstyle.

No you may disagree, you may not. But thats my opinion.

So, given a choice between a tauntless tank and a taunting tank, with ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL. I am going to choose the taunter. However, I dont ask people whether they have taunt.

Its simply that if I PUGGIE with a tauntless tank, I am less likely to want to team with them again.

I was merely saying that this is acceptable.

My sole point is this: Taunt will make you more popular than skipping it.

Lots of other things contribute to popularity, like personality and skill, and normally are FAR more important.

Oh and Im entirely with you: If I ever get a tell saying "Are you kinetic? Are you empath? Are you Granite?" I will normally never team with them. I reply with a cautious "why", and unless they can give a VERY specific reason (*maybe* the ITF/STF, *maybe* they have a granite tank, etc) I will decline their offer on principle - its a bad sign when people need a specific set, and its bad form.

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Personally, I think choosing not to team with someone based on thier build without seeing them in action is not acceptable.

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I try to avoid quoting and saying "this" but in this case it seems the best course. This!

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Well, I think its a lot more complex than that...

1. Inviting a tank. Take one look at build. No Taunt. Kick.

On one extreme.

2. Doing ITF. Last spot. Need a tank. Two tanks ask to join. Both are unknown quantities in terms of "skill". One has taunt, one dosent. Choose the former.

There is a whole spectrum of inbetweens too. I think most people would be somewhere in between the two...

However, the argument "If [x] wants to play/build that way, its there game, let them" also applies to "If [x] wants never to team with tauntless tanks, its their game, let them". As long as people are rude about it, you have to say its their perogative. Ergo, acceptable.

[For the record I dont think doing scenario 1 is something I would condone, or do, but you have to respect peoples choices].

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Rofl. Is this thread STILL going on? I really cba to read through all that has been posted since my previous one. And I hardly see the point in this continuing.


[/ QUOTE ]You're new here, aren't you?

We're only on page 2 now, taunt threads tend to go on far longer than that.

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10 Pages would be remarkably short

Biggest acheivement was getting my blaster, Triggerfinger from level 29 to level 38, via Citadel, Manticore, and Numina and hence earning Task Force Commander. Inf? no idea. I felt pretty short at the end of it.

Funnily enough its the only time I updated from level 30 SO to level 40 SO in one jump... I just levelled so quickly and didnt have the time to do the appropriate store mission to unluck level 35/40 SOs. I cobble together some ugly build at level 37 from IOs which cost far to much!

Otherwise, got my tank to level 43! Highest level tank ever! woohoo!

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I prefer not to team with someone that decides on a players worth just by what powers they have.

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Perfectly acceptable, just as is a) Not having taunt and b) Choosing not to team with a tauntless tank.

I just feel it worth acknowledging that if tanks choose not to get taunt, they are (probably) impairing their popularity.

I didnt say it was logical

I didnt say it was possible

It is, however, the mantra of a true tank!

EVERY DEATH BUT MINE OWN IS MY FAULT!

NO EXCEPTIONS!

NO EXCUSES!

tbh at least half my concern about a tauntless tank is not the mechanics of being tauntless, but the psychology of one who doesnt take it. Its screams "I DONT CARE ABOUT YOU" to me.

My Mantra when tanking.

EVERY DEATH APART FROM MINE OWN IS MY FAULT.

NO EXCEPTIONS.

NO EXCUSES.

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a - no power in this game is really 'needed'. Even stamina could be done without if you slot for end reduction
b - every team is able to finish every mission if youre use team play and smarts. Some will take ages longer. But you will get there.
c - if you faceplant from attacking... you would have done so alone too. Don't blaim you're team mates for youre mistake... and as suc... don't blaim the tank. Taunt of no taunt.

We are not bound to specific team builds. Time and time again I noticed that in COX its far less important then WOW for instance.

ps. My tanker made 43 now.. without taunt. SS/Inv, and I never missed it. And no team member noticed it missing. If I think it fits the toon concept oir I have a slot free to distribute I will take it, other wise not. I will prob get it on my willp brute later in the higher levels.

All can make their own choices and team members calling me names because of my choices that I made on purpois are just not social or themselves terrible players. In such a way they need a god team to survive.

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Ever tried with taunt? Im not technically sure you can miss something you never had, but thats pedantic.

There is more to taunt than just Rescuing people in trouble. Taunt allows squishies to stop diverting their attention from the mob (where they can unleash AoE hell - and, incidentally, save you) on onto the stragglers that are threateneing them.

Effectively it makes all your other team mates more efficient.

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And if he dosent, due to the ambush, the runners, the missed mobs, the fliers, the teleporters, the double spawns, the summoned reinforcements, the double (or more) AV's, or the plain mistake,

Do you care how he missed them?

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Is your question supposed to be smart or something? I'll just start shouting at people when it turns out they're not flawless, sounds good.

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Sorry, that was an obtuse post.

My point was, of course nobody complains when things are going well. But that dosent differentiate taunt vs tauntless.

You have to look at when things go badly. In my experience, I face plant more with tauntless tanks.

And thats normally in one of the situations noted above. A taunt would have a 100% chance of complete save. However, in such pear shaped situation, a tauntless tank will have to move from "the zone", causing chaos, taking time, and with less chance of grabbing aggro off me.

Perhaps one should consider not WHY TAKE TAUNT?, but WHY NOT?

Zero end cost, rech 10 seconds, auto hit, affects anybody, AoE, Works single slotted (although you may well want more).

Now...

Why would you NOT take that kind of power?

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To be honest whoever owns the character should be able to pick what they want without anyone commenting or criticising, maybe giving advice, but if someone has certain powers do not force them to get rid of them because at the end of they day its their character and its their decision.

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Thats absolutely true. You cant critise someone for choosing their build.

However, you cant critisise someone for choosing not to play with a tauntless tank either. Its their game too.

I always prefer to play with a taunting tank, and will choose one over a tauntless, unless I have a very good reason to choose otherwise (freind, or experience of that tank being very good).

And when it comes to a hard TF, I will think very long and very hard about accepting a tauntless tank.

So its not a critique of the person. Of course, choose how you want to play / build. But ultimately, you have to accept the impact your choices have on your popularity and desirability in the game. That may bother you a little, a lot, or not at all.

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If the tank stops my Blaster getting snapped in half, I couldn't give a crab how he's doing it.

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And if he dosent, due to the ambush, the runners, the missed mobs, the fliers, the teleporters, the double spawns, the summoned reinforcements, the double (or more) AV's, or the plain mistake,

Do you care how he missed them?

I find it (like Spirit Tree) good in AV fights. If you have 3 or 4 of these running, the maths is.. impressive...

EMP's -regen is 22 seconds every 300. Hardly ground breaking.

If TA is ever going to be more than a pity slot in the big TF's, it need a very reliable -regen power. TA is mainly about holds/mez (very weak vs AV), and debuffs (the one that really shines vs AV is -regen). Its probably last on peoples lists for the big AVs

Im not saying its not balanced for "regular" missions. I feel it is. But adding a reliable (and conceptually fitting) -regen power to Poison Gas Arrow (probably one of the underperforming powers) would only add a tiny amount of utility in "regular" missions, whilst making it a proper contender vs AVs.

Just a thought, anyway.

Come bash clocks!

Wednesday 16th, Noon, Synapse Task Force, Level 15-20, takes around 3-4 hours.

Requisite for Task Force Commander Accolade

Plus a shiny badge

Gets you the Gear badge too!

All welcome, even fire kin controllers.

Agree there. I really cant see PSW or Fulcrum lasting much longer. Quite rightly. And Seeds of Confusion and Granite need a long hard look at too.

Im very pleased with the real effort to balance powers properly. Its been long overdue, and well done.

(PS Take a look at Trick Archery for defenders at some point will you? Like -regen in Poison Gas Arrow?)

I would definately agree with coralax.

Perhaps Minions of Igneous too. A breif painful flirt with them in the Hollows, and then vanish.

\/\/01\/3r1n3

Mace has had a considerable buff recently. The animation times are much faster. In addition, the final power, crowd control, is now a 180 degree arc.

Im not having a problem with Mace on my tank, although it certainly is more of a team set. I think only fire melee has more AoE.

EM has had a big nerf recently, and from what I understand SS and SM are looking precarious.

In any case, the dev's are applying military mathematics to melee sets in terms of balancing activation times vs. damage.

WM will probably always be slightly lower ST damage than other sets, because it has more AoE, but I wouldnt worry about the sets being balanced.

Gratz!

Now, onto something non-scrappery?

As a side note, it seems crippling nerfs (like the infamour burn nerf) are a thing of the past. They are pretty measured now. Despite peoples hysteria over TF and ET, they are only brought down to "normal" functioning. EM remains highest ST damage. Hardly unplayable.

I dont anticipate any collosal nerfs to anything in the future. Moderate, and justified, ones, maybe.

They will nerf overpowered sets/powers
They will buff underpowered sets/powers

Like every single nerf and buff previously.

On a more serious note, I would cast a suspcious eye over Granite armour, Fulcrum Shift (and particularly Fire/Kins), Will Power, and Seeds of Confusion. Possibly I would add regen and super reflexes. I would cast a slightly loving eye over Trick Archery (the non hold powers in particular), War Mace, and Smash/Lethal sets/powers in general.

Ultimately I dont think you have anything in particular to worry about. Every single nerf and buff beforehand has been correctly applied (not perfectly, still), and we constantly move towards a greater balance. It's all good.

Personally, I dont care. I would rather nerfs/devs took place independently of the player base. Sure, a few suggestions is nice.

But ultimately nerfing is vital to the longevity of the game. And given the short sighted cries of "no fair" and "you are evil, dev's", involving the players in nerfing (or buffing come to that) will disencourage nerfing. Something that should be encouraged.

If the game hadnt introduced ED and GDN, I doubt it would be alive today.

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Funny how many people say tankers without taunt are stupid or lousy. (less effective).

My 38 tanker never took, never will take taunt. Why? I dont party big teams. In 3-4 people party its really easy to keep agro by just attacking and a taunt aura.

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Thats a fair point. It becomes more useful the larger the team is.

I would add a point though. Taunt ups the teams DPS considerably.

When a few loose bozo's start wailing on a squishy, that squishy (usually) changes focus to the loose ones instead of maximising his / her potential on the large mass of bozo's around the tank. The team looses an immense amount of efficacy at those moments. A simple taunt will instantly remedy the situation, and again the team starts functioning optimally.

I must say after a long time playing this game, I have come to the conclusion that the old "Tank in, grab agro, herd, unleash AoE" method is actually sub-optimal. With agro and AoE caps it is not particularly effective except in (maybe) small teams.

I think people still cling to the past. I can say that in slick (biggish) teams with freinds we simply plow far far faster by quickly eradicating mobs one group at a time, not wasting time "herding".

Now this does involve slickness. The tank would not wait for every single last enemy to fall before jumping in to the next group. And it does involve players reacting intelligently. And it does involve taking taunt. But it completely eradicates the whole "herd" thing with barely and perceptible loss in kill rate. Just a thought, anyway.

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its aint abt the power selection, its abt the player and how he wants to play and how he sees his role in the team (replace he/his/him where ever appropriate )

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Nevertheless, not taking taunt makes you less effective.

Aside from throwing away your most useful tool, not taking tank is, IMO, a tatoo on your forehead saying "I dont care about other players".

Good point about *when* to take it, though. Certainly it would be reasonable (perhaps not advisable, especially for invincibility tanks) to skip it until your d efences are fully fleshed out with SO's: ie level 22.

IMO you are a "bad" tanker if you dont take taunt. But not a bad player.

I have no problem with a tank CHOOSING not taking taunt, its simply he/she will drop down several notches in my "Invite" rating scale. Sure, good play and good company are very important, but all other things being equal, a tauntless tank is unpleasant and will not be oft invited, and thats just not my opinion either.

But thats the payoff. Many so called "boring" powers, like taunt or leadership pools are just devastatingly useful / powerful. So if you choose to take them, they you will be more popular.

Aside from that, when I am playing with people I know, I would be plain embarressed not to take taunt, however squishy I am.

You can probably forget being invited to hard TFs like ITF, STF, maybe LGTF aswell, unless its for a "pity" slot, or in a group of freinds.