Cobra_Man

One thing I should ask is this... Is it just you that will be -5 to the enemies or will more of your team be -5 as well?

The reason I ask is that if the majority of them are -5 or even -4 they will find it really hard to hit anything, even with optimal slotting and even then damage will be seriously low.

I'm sure you are aware of this but going for +2/+3 enemies is in my opinion a lot more fun and would probably level you a lot quicker.

If you were all going to be Defenders I would say +5 would be viable but with mainly Scrappers and Blasters involved it could be a bit of a nightmare - at +5.

Don't take any of this the wrong way. It's just my opinion.

The only other thing is Speed Boost. Sure it gives increased run speed which may not suit everyone. That isn't it's real benefit though.

What Speed Boost is really useful for is increased Attack rate, Endurance recovery and Resistance to Slow effects. Run speed is only really of use pre travel power, I would imagine. I see it as a 'side effect' almost.

A lot of players who aren't familiar with the Kinetic set (not the OP I hasten to add) simply don't realise the real benefits of Speed Boost.

Going back to the general question of the thread... My second choice would be Dark Primary for damage mitigation purposes and either Dark secondary to augment the Acc debuff or Sonic secondary to weaken the enemy damage resistance.

The damage resistance element of the sonic secondary set will go well with Tar Patch in the Dark primary set - which you would utilise a lot if you chose Dark Primary. Tar Patch also weakens enemy Damage resistance.

Hope this helps

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I'm not a powerleveller, or lazy... but I need some advice....

I want to roll up a defender, and I want to roll up a GOOD one.

Assuming there would be *one* defender in a group, and my team is facing the toughest parts of the game (Trials, Task Forces, Archvillains, fighting against +5's), which AT is going to provide the best chance of survival and success for me and my team?

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I couldn't help but notice you're looking to be fighting +5's. Nothing wrong with that but if you're looking to play a Defender that needs to 'hit' to be effective you might struggle without slotted Tactics.

This obviously wouldn't be an issue for certain sets but Kinetics would be an issue as most of the buffs/debuffs are all based on successfuly hitting your target.

That said... I feel that Kinetics is an awesome set and can transform your team damage potential from normal to massive in the blink of an eye - particlarly when Fulcrum Shift becomes available

Another thing to note about Kinetics is that it is a very dynamic set to play and to be as effective as possible you'll need to be really mobile.

I spend a lot of my time standing next to the team Tank, in the middle of the mob or looking for the best enemy to fire off Siphon Power, Transfusion, Transference etc

My Kinetic is an Illusion/Kinetic Controller but the principles are the same when it comes to getting the best out of the Kin set.

You never know... perhaps an Illusion/Kinetic Controller might be an option for you.

Both powersets go very well together - with the best Illusion ones being 'Fire and Forget'.

I play it more like a Defender, to be honest and have had no complaints in the last 48 levels

If an Ill/Kin Controller isn't for you, I would still recommend a Kinetic Defender.

I am also running a Dark/Dark Def at the moment which is also very good at protecting the team - even at +5 - with it's Accuracy debuffs and strong Heal. Again I would recommend taking Tactics for this set.

My experience with the rest of the Def sets is limited to pre lev 32 characters, so I can't really comment on how they feel to play.

Have fun

Congratulations

Hmmm This thread is way too deep for my taste.

Bottom line is you can either;

1. Approach mob - Taunt - gain aggro of the mob - spam taunt and don't attack, while your team takes the mobs out.

or

2. Approach mob - Taunt - gain aggro of the mob - spam taunt and attack, helping your team take the mobs out.

I know what I'd rather do as a Tank.....

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Thank you all of you.

That helps. So far, I've found that people ignore me when I say keep together, in range for me and I'm going for a personal record in losing anchors.

3 seconds at the moment!

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3 seconds, eh?.... Just wait until people start using Nova's

Speaking not just as a Dark/Dark Defender, I would say always follow the Tank.

However once you see the team begin to split, then let the others know as soon as possible. As a Defender you will see this well before any other AT, except maybe a Controller.

You'll probably get conflicting advice on this but a split team is a recipe for disaster. Once the call from you goes out everyone should disengage and reform on the Tank.

Mind you.... If your team has no Tank and splits..... Run

My Tanking experience is a bit limited, only having a lev 29 INV/SS Tanker However ... I have found it beneficial to the team if I dish out a bit of damage as well as taunting.

I have a very strong defence and I can keep full attention of the mob and keep a Boss or Lt on his backside using Air Sup or Knockout.

Surely this can't be a bad thing?

Granted if a Tank turns up with sheilds missing, no Taunt and only attacks then thats not much use. IMHO thats down to the player using bad judgement when taking powers.

As long as a Tank has a sound defence and taunt, then there is no problem with them having a pop at the mobs.

Coming from a Scrapper background myself, I can see why Kinetics might feel a bit strange to you. You're used to dealing out damage and sets like Kinetic, Force Field and Empathy involve a fair amount of buffing other players, at the expense of attacking.

The Defender sets that don't involve a lot of player buffing may be better suited to you, such as Dark, Storm or TA.

I would recommend trying each of these three and experiment to find the one that suits you.

I'm currently levelling a Dark/Dark, which has a very offensive feel to it. Dark with any secondary would be a good choice really.

I've also teamed a lot with good Storm Defenders and have been very impressed with the offensive aspects of this set and the sheer chaos it causes to the Mobs

When I get my current Def to 50, I'm going to have a look at Storm/Electric.

Bottom line is that any Def set, played well, can be highly effective. It's just that some are more offensive in nature, which may suit a Scrapper mentality - like mine

Personally I would take Speed Boost first. It's overall benefits make it more desirable to get earlier than ID.

That is unless you plan to fight lots of enemies that Hold/Sleep/Mez etc at your current level (CoT MM's I'm looking at you )

If that's the case, then ID is everyones friend - apart from you

I have a level 29 Emp/Psi Def.

Something to consider, when choosing your travel power is the amount of KB, Holds, Mez, sleeps etc that will be coming your way later in the game.

CJ and Acro are your friends here - particularly if you are going to attack a lot as well.

Hover will help with KB but if you go with hover/fly only you better take a few BF's to each mission that has enemies that have these effects.

As far as stamina is concerned... If you intend to attack as much as you can then I would take certainly take it. If you just want to heal/buff then don't.

As far as Absorb Pain is concerned, it's a very situational power and one that I respecced out. I will probably respec it back in when I get to around lev 40.

As Max stated it can make a huge difference to even a Tank's massive HP's. Very useful when you start to meet AV's on a regular basis.

I would have to say my favourite Defender to play is Dark/Dark.

A very strong heal - second only to Kinetics I think - coupled with excellent debuffs, holds and a very handy pet all make this fun to play.

It's very effective in both a team situation and for solo work, where it will make short work of mobs that con above you.

However.....

My favourite Defender to be on the same team as is a Kinetic. The buffs are just simply awesome

The problem with Kin is that you can easily be viewed as a buff bot by your team and when level 32 comes every Granite Armour Tank (who wasn't savvy enough to take TP) will be looking for Speed Boost. This very quickly decreases the enjoyment of the set

I was once on a very long mission, with my Ill/Kin controller that had not one... but three Stone Tanks with Granite Armour. Plus 4 others who all wanted Speed Boost as well.

Not fun, I can assure you.

Something to think about when rolling a Kinetic\ Def.

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Which would end up in this argument starting up all over again. If you remove the things that people are complaining about having to go to PvP Zones for, then you remove the problem.

Obviously, keep things like the Shivans, Nukes, exploration badges. The former do relate to engaging in PvP in game-lore sense as you're taking things from the other side, just remove the Accolade requirements and the increased XP, and you've got no reason for PvE people to complain if they're in a PvP zone, as what's left will be strictly PvP related.

[/ QUOTE ]But people are complaining about shivans, nukes, and exploration badges AS WELL.

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Pretty well covered that Shivans, nukes etc are part of the PvP game.

This thread narrowed it down to the villain Accolades a while ago.

As far as making any new accolades - hero or villain - dependant on entering a PvP zone? Unless the accolade related only to PvP, then it would be a very, very poor idea indeed.

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Just checking... How can a villain complete all of the Villain Accolades, without being required to enter a PvP zone.


[/ QUOTE ]They can't. They have a choice, they either complete the accolade, and enter a PvP zone to do that, or they choose to NOT get that accolade. Accolades are not required to complete any portion of the PvP game, last I checked.

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They can't. OK.

So if a player considers the Accolades to be an important part in 'completing' their character, then they have no choice but are required to enter the PvP zones?

Last time I checked, I saw that Accolades had various effects on characters on the PvE side.

This could go round in circles forever but an undeniable fact is that PvE oriented villains, who only feel that their character is 'complete' when they have all the accolades available, must enter the PvP zones.

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My point is that a large section of the community must enter the PvP zones to acheive their objectives - [u]even if they don't want to.[u]

[/ QUOTE ]Since when does anyone HAVE to enter PvP zones?

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Villains, to get the badges required for the Villain version of the Atlas Medallion. Badgehunters and people just looking for an extra boost alike.

[/ QUOTE ]None of them are forced to enter.

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None of the above are forced to enter? Ah... My bad. I thought villains still had to go into the PvP zones for Accolades. I didn't realise they had changed that.

Well done Devs

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Far as i know they do, however its not like you need the accolades, you just want em

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But if you choose to get the accolades on the hero side, then you don't have to enter a PvP zone. However, if you choose to get them on the villains side, then you have no choice.

[/ QUOTE ]If you choose to get the badges for blue ink men or shivans on hero side, you need to enter PvP zones, but on villain side you do not.

Entering PvP zones is ALWAYS by choice, and is NEVER required to complete the content outside of those zones.

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Just checking... How can a villain complete all of the Villain Accolades, without being required to enter a PvP zone.

Do they have a choice to complete the Villain Accolades and still avoid setting foot in a PvP zone?

I dont go out of my way to do Accolades but I gather it's important to a lot of players, on both sides?

If there is some other way to get all of the Villain Accolades, without being required to enter a PvP zone, then lets hear it?

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My point is that a large section of the community must enter the PvP zones to acheive their objectives - [u]even if they don't want to.[u]

[/ QUOTE ]Since when does anyone HAVE to enter PvP zones?

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Villains, to get the badges required for the Villain version of the Atlas Medallion. Badgehunters and people just looking for an extra boost alike.

[/ QUOTE ]None of them are forced to enter.

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None of the above are forced to enter? Ah... My bad. I thought villains still had to go into the PvP zones for Accolades. I didn't realise they had changed that.

Well done Devs

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To be honest, although I agree PvP zones are for PvP, the instances where some posters have responded by insulting the PvEr's intelligence or have simply cried out 'It's a PvP zone, deal with it' are simply making the problem worse.

If people actually tried thinking about ways to solve the problem, on both sides of the fence, rather than going 'Get over it', there wouldn't be people complaining all the time. Both side's complainers need to stop acting like spoilt brats, and actually try working towards a solution, rather than the endless "My way's the way it should be" arguments.

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Well said.

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IMHO there is nothing to sort out. Seems that what most people think as well on the forums.

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With the increasing number of threads, on both sides of the Atlantic - with a large number of posts, there clearly is something to sort out.

Pretending that there isn't is not really a constructive way to approach it.

For the record I hold the opinion that if you enter PvP zones then you are fair game and must expect to be attacked at any time.

I don't agree with players who get upset for being attacked when they are badge hunting, duelling, in for temp powers or any other non PvP reason. These players must be prepared to defend themselves or make good their escape.

My point is that a large section of the community must enter the PvP zones to acheive their objectives - [u]even if they don't want to.[u]

Until this is sorted, there quite simply is an issue and the threads will continue.

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"puny villain"

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In all honesty I might mistake that as an in-character taunt even.

On another note, this is like 3rd or 4th thread out of the same subject in short period of time..

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I agree. "Puny villain" is a pretty tame phrase to get you all annoyed. God forbid you ever get any of the vile abuse that I've had after a PvP fight.

This subject is unlikely to go away, as long as certain conditions exist... Villains needing to PvP for accolades, badges in PvP zones etc.

If you look at the US forums they pop up on a regular basis and cause a lot of bitter words. I'd get used to it, as I think we'll see more posts of a similar nature - until the dev's sort things out.

If they ever do....

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Personally, I have never been on a team with too many AoE's, weheras most of the teams I have been on have to little.

Even primarily AoE characters likes spines scrappers or fire blasters mix in their attacks with single target effects.

No, I have to say the real reason that people dont take AoE attacks is because the game is riddled with cowardness. People are terrified of aggro. Even some tanks, like the tauntless Granite tank (yes, thats level 32), who decided not to run Mud Pots most of the mission.

If everyone in the team stopped worrying about aggro and let rip with the AoE they had, teams would sweep through missions at a furious page. But people don't take AoE, they take single target powers. So the AoE'rs end up contributing more for the team and taking more debt. Bitter, Moi?

AoE rules in PvP big teams. YOu may argue about a boss. HOwever, if the minions are quickly wiped out, a lone boss is no challenge to an 8 man team.

Ive never ever been on an 8 man team when people have AoE'd the minions in seconds and then stood around for hours struggling to kill the boss. I am struggling to see how on earth that could happen, actually. Maybe with 8 Fire blasters who only used fire ball and rain of fire. But they don't. They would all use these and then Blaze / Fire bolt on the boss and everything would drop at the same time.

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Hmmm.. It's a bit of a sweeping statement to say the game is riddled with 'cowardness'. You must understand that most powerset attack chains will have single target powers in them and that the majority of mixed groups wont be exclusively of an AoE nature.

Even Fire Blasters and Spines Scrappers will pop in a few single target attacks, when fighting mobs.

I suppose if you had picked an all Fire Blaster team and no one used fireball, then you might have a case

I totally agree with the 'Boss Killer' approach. In the higher (40-50) levels, bosses can do a fair amount of damage before AoE's can take then down - particularly when on invincible.

My primary role, on my Kat/Reg, was to make straight for the boss - or other hazard like a sapper - and take it out fast.

Your less resilliant team mates will really appreciate it and it adds to the fun as well.

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SR is much more fun than regen, you can also laugh at all the high end psi mobs while the tanks fall over

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I agree SR certainly is a fun set, but the fun with Regen is being able to keep going non-stop, toe to toe with the enemy. Add in Broadsword or (my favourite) Katana and you can have a whole load of fun.

I am biased, having taken my Kat/Reg scrapper to 50, but it's brought the most fun I've had in the game so far.

Why not try a slightly different approach to this?

I would take Dark Miasma as my primary for a Psi Blaster (and will probably roll this tonight as well).

DM has a lot going for it, to compliment a Psi Blaster concept. You would only need to take a few powers from the primary, leaving you free to slot up the psi attacks.

However the DM powers that you could take would really limit the incoming damage, lower the enemy resistance and provide a very good measure of mob control.

Personally, from Dark Miasma, I would take the following:

Darkest night: -Acc
Twilight Grasp: Heal, -Acc
Tar Patch: -Acc, -Res, Slow
Fearsome Stare: -Acc, Fear

Twilight grasp is really optional but would increase your chances of survival.... a lot

My opinion is that DM is well suited to being paired with a Psi Blaster. No one is looking for buffs from a Dark def.... hell most people dont have a clue what a Dark def is doing at the best of times. I even had one player totally miss the fact that I was pumping out a +357 heal during a level 40 Rikti mission last night

I only realised this when he uttered the immortal line....

"We dont have a healer"

Ah well...I digress.

My overall take is that a Psi Blaster will need some form of backup from the primary powerset to make it fun . You could probably do it but i think it could be a chore.

Anyway... whatever you pick, enjoy yourself

In my opinion, it's a mark of how generally friendly CoH/V is that we dont actually have hate lists.

The closest we get is players that you've had to put on /ignore or /gignore - for whatever reason.

Personally it takes severe abuse for me to put any player on ignore and have only had to do it once in a year of playing.

Ah... I wondered about that. I was getting jealous that I wasn't on a hate list

I take you mean mobs like those pesky Circle of Thorns etc?

For a different approach to the 'control' secondaries that some blaster powersets like Ice have, try a Fire/Fire blaster.

This very much an AoE (area of effect) based set but it's a real fun set to play - even at low levels.

I have a lev 16 Fire/Fire Blaster on Defiant right now and the amount of damage it can generate is outrageous.

By lev 16 I have Aim and Build Up and a 6 slotted Fireball and 5 slotted Fire Breath attacks. An even con mob is basically wiped out when you use a single attack chain of Aim, Build Up, Fire Breath and Fire Ball.

With Hasten 3 slotted with 3 recharges this chain is available quite often, even at my low level.

My only advice is.... give it a go. Take time to experiment. It's fun and you'll know reasonably quickly if Fire/Fire is the set for you.