Clintonian

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You're working off of pure assumption

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Err, not pure assumption, but some hypothesizing based on the track record of the company. He's got some bias, but he's not crazy. His interpretation is about as valid as anyone else's. Well, except for the "wait and see - it'll be all right" crowd. 'Wait and see' is fair advice, but it doesn't have the sterling success rate one might think. The devs are pretty darn good at responding to actual feedback, not thumb-twiddling.

Revolver has said his piece and moved on now. I'm sure we'll all see some new info next week.

Wow, I was sympathetic to your post until this:

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These NPCs get better powers, costumes and options than the paying customers. I'm happy Statesman gets to recreate his favorite Champions adventures online, but he's doing so at the expense of my stories about my characters.

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Taking things a little personal and going round the bend, aren't you?

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There is Currently no way to change your patron pools.

Meaning in the future some story arc allowing you to change Patrons like you change your underwear will be implemented. Probably In the same Issue Recluse, Hammi, the Center, Lilitu, Nemesis and the Praetorians become available as Patrons

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Ha! You had me for a second.

Subtle snark for teh win!

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Clint, just because you've learned to embrace and bathe in the hyperbole and doomwhining doesn't mean everyone has to condone it, too.

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<insert pot/keetle remark>

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Yes, Revolver freaking the hell out as if this were written in stone and will never change without knowing anything other than 1 Positron post is going overboard.

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He wasn't nearly upset until you and Sadako wound him up for just having an educated opinion on how it would work based on over a year of experience with the game and the devs. I'm not sure how freaking out about game criticism is very constructive. Please advise.

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Yet... capes hit at level 20 and no one cares about it anymore.

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Yeeesss... Capes=APP-like PPPs. That makes perfect... insanity. What happened to arguing on the actual merits of a debate? A lost art, it is.

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'm sorry I'm not freaking out like a 3 year old about this, Clint.

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Liar.

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Maybe because it's everything I've been asking for for months:

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Liar, again. You've asked for more than this.

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But no, I'm not even just protesting Revolver's right to be a giant loudmouth. I read this thread and was disgusted, Clint. It's an entire thread of people acting like jagoffs, whether it's about lack of information about patron powers, the inability to change them, or even typos. Game balance, nerfs, devs, fanboys, trolls or not, I take exception to that as a forum reader. If you want to condone that because you suddenly find yourself at odds with the devs, that's your choice to make.


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Ya know, it's fair to be "disgusted", I suppose. (Though I thought the niggles about typos were fair. Awry is paid to WRITE and EDIT for goodness' sake. ) Honestly, though, you are very judgemental right out of the chute lately. You did nothing to lessen tempers in this thread, and are therefore a co-conspirator in this relatively mild hubbub. Criminy, I'm pretty unimpressed with the so-called backlash to PPPs thus far. I don't believe people should be up in arms about this, but if this is supposed to be some sort of protest, my girl has gotten more worked up about farting under the covers. Which makes the anti-'backlash' backlash almost comical.

I actually agree with your preference that APPs and PPPs choices have more weight to them than how they fall in the Brawl Index. I also sympathize a bit with people who don't want to be told how to have fun. If a game is gonna start pushing PvP as an important gameplay choice, then it seems a little off to lock people into specific PPPs. It's great that the devs want to release stats for the PPPs, but I think it's fair for people to be cautious about hip-hip-hooraying because stats change for powers in MMOGs.

It just seems odd that heroes have so much flexibility in power list design, and villains do not. I'm not surprised that there are sub-faction oriented PPPs. I'm a little surprised that there's no mention of generic elemental PPPs in addition to them. Maybe they will down the line, but again, that's not something you can assume the devs will get right on. There's a backlog of things that the devs would like to implement that would fill two more years of development resources evidently. You want something, you better speak up early and often. How long did the popular Paragon Dance Party missions idea languish in the Suggestions section as a stickied idea, no less before it briefly appeared as a part of the V-Day event?

Just saying.

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Oh and in beta you USED to be able to change AT's through the Terra Volta trial. So the tech is in place to change patron powers. Just like the tech is available to do name changes, etc.

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Actually that was the original, on-paper, plan for Terra Volta. The Strategy Guide went off the on-paper plan and said that is the end result of the trial. Thus there is no "tech in place" for this. The Terra Volta trial was not in the COH beta, it was issue 2, I believe, that it made its debut. Changing ATs has never been in the game, it was never programmed.

Hopefully that clears that up.

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Not according to your testers.

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CoH beta tester, here. It wasn't in during beta, wasn't tested in beta, was complained heavily about it's absence in beta in the forum. You need to talk to people who actually tested the game. Heck, you need to talk to people who actually played the game in 2004 the way your posts read.

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The infamous SG Cap being a prime example. Everytime you turn around, you have a new excuse for why the cap allegedly exists. When I see so many repeated inconsistancies by a company, it's just hard to believe anything they say as truth. In the last ask Statesman for example, Statesman repeated this trend of saying one thing and then being proven wrong with material directly from the game to do so.

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I call shenanigans on you. You're taking a [censored], aren't you?

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Oh and as to the "Tech" you guys claim is interestingly enough never in place... tell me why every other MMO has no problem at all doing such things that parallel items that could be doable yet everytime the "Tech" isn't available. Unless you guys coded this game in something like Cobol and then used a bunch of AS400's for your server systems, you can't tell me the tech isn't available.

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When the devs refer to "tech", they're talking about code modules that handle game functions. This game was written lean and mean originally without a lot of extraneous code for functions that they thought they might implement years later. Statesman made it clear when the company initiated a two-month discussion period on how the Respec system would work in the forum that the option of changing primaryand Secondary powersets was not going to be an option. It wasn't because it wasn't possible. It was a design choice based partly on the close marriage of Prim/Sec powersets and character concept. You agree with it or you don't.

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And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.

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We don't know this. We need to chillax.

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If it was taken into account and they went along with it anyway, than I've obviously overestimated their intelligence.

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Dude, give it a rest.

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Hey, they made a dumb a move that's going to kick players in the [censored] somewhere down the road. I'm more than entitled to be concerned over that and defend my opinion.

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Revolver, you've made your statement, the debate goes on, and you're not a lone voice crying in the wind. Pace yourself and avoid getting personal even though there have been some personal attacks against you. The more you rebut every little comment, the more it looks like you're throwing a hissy fit.

Personally, I'm ambivalent about Patron powersets being locked. It's not really all that bad or good. It's a judgement call for design unless there's a concern about min/maxing. It can also have some effect on PvP, but it likely doesn't break the gameplay any more than the multitude of existing PvP quirks do.

Let's be rhetorically honest about this, though, people. Patron Power Pools have always been intended to balance out the advantage of heroes' Ancillary Power Pools. That's not my opinion. That's been every indication from dev commentary since beta. The permanence of one's PPP potentially puts one at a slight disadvantage just on principle without having a look at how large, useful, or similar to each other the PPPs are. There may be compensating factors yet to be revealed. Until they are revealed - until any more details are revealed - one can't assume the worst (Revolver) OR the best (Taser, Sadako).

One thing is for sure: the PPPs are demonstrably different from APPs, so no one can assume how they will work and how the devs will tweak them for good or ill later on. Being doomy or pollyanna-ish about this without a heaping spoonful of "I'll admit I don't know what the [censored] I'm talking about" included is silly.

I don't know what the eff I'm talking about as far as the unreleased specifics of PPPs, but they are different from the function of APPs and they'll be trickier to implement than APPs were because of their differences. APPs were not implemented without noticeable hiccups for months.

*crosses fingers*

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It's exactly like people flipping out about capes.

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Not really - not yet, at least.

It'd be nice if YOU didn't flip out anytime someone said the devs did something wrong or made a mistake. Your Red Bull privileges are hereby revoked.

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It's not a freak out about a tiny bit of information. We can't change an epic pool - that's pretty major no matter how you slice it.

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We can't change a primary or a secondary, either. It looks like you're assuming these Patron Power Pools will be comparable to the CoH epic pools, i.e. a narrow and very limited set of choices. We don't know that. So far, we know next to nothing about them.

You're complaining about being locked into something that you don't even know what it is. Isn't that a little premature?

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C'mon now. Considering the lead time on anything to do with this game including little tweaks and fixes, waiting until it hits the Test server is absurd.

ABSURD.

We all know that 95% of what hits Test, hits Live. I'm not advocating going into full, obnoxious squeaky-wheel mode is appropriate right now, but this 'Be quiet/Wait and see" advice is silly. It's a [censored] feedback forum. Some of you folks continue to be a little defensive and read too much animosity into criticism. The devs are not wilting hothouse flowers suffering from too much heat and vapors.

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He means powersets.

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Are the patron pools truly permanent or can they be changed in a respec?

Had to ask in case you were still lurking.

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you realize Patron Pools are the villian version of the hero Ancillary power sets, right?

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Most everyone knows that and accepts that the promo copy for I7 has an awkwardly written line about the permanence of Patron Powers.

A clarification would be appreciated, because Patron Powers are NOT EXACTLY like APPs, in that your Patron choice unlocks content that is mildly or greatly pertinent to your Patron. This additional factor to Patron Powers may preclude swapping PPPs like one can with APPs. It may not. We have not been informed clearly yet. We, the forum playerbase, have sent feedback about either hypothetical PPP scenario.

edit: Actually, we did get clarification today.

Well, a pretty wide net has been cast here. We can't assume that everything that is mentioned in the forum prior to official announcement is something that the dev team hasn't thought of or worked on before, but a fair number were. Sometimes, player posts provide a tipping point that can move something that existed on a post-it note at Cryptic to the greaseboard and then on to a patch note.

Some people when they are overcome with disgruntled disappointment like to state that the devs ignore the players. That's just not true. Players provide valuable feedback in greater and lesser ways very regularly.

It's not as sexy as some things, but a fair amount of the global chat, team search, and UI tweaks since launch have been inspired or given priority by player suggestions.

My faves:
- team search comment section
- third power button tray (thanks Positron! )

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I believe and "that chap" would be Brigader (or something along those lines).

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Bridger

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The question I asked Statesman via PM (sent January 13):

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Quick question about the status of skills, since it came up on the forums again...are they still under development or permanently shelved?

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His reply:

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Shelved.

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I remembered, Ned.

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The other thing I wanted to say about that, is that I don't buy when developers claim that us mean posters hurt their feeling and make them not want to talk with us. The developers have the control. Their input has much more force than any poster. I'm sorry but suck it up. This is the only service industry where client service is thought to be optional.

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/signed

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But that doesn't mean we have free reign to be a raging douchehat, Living.

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Agreed.

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No other industry allows unsatisfied customers to attack and harass someone working for them.

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Err, untrue. Just off the top of my head, comic book preofessionals encounter this same level of attention, just not every one of them. Bendis mildly encourages douchebaggery on his website for the entertainment value of it.

(You could nitpick and say that comics professionals provide a product and not a service, but I would argue that A) it's splitting a very fine hair, and B) tell that to comics retailers and people who actually subscribe directly to the companies themselves. )

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The conspiracy theories and personal vendettas against developers of this game are childish. Please grow up.

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Agreed, with the stipulation that there are some theories that hold water better than the official company line. Not all theories labelled as 'conspiracy' are equally deranged or self-serving.

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No, really, we get it. We just don't remember when they promised us something to do when we maxed out our characters. Some people think the "I'm 50 and bored" complainers are whining because there is no broken contract between you and the company. They have not promised any new content once you've maxed out your character. Statesman has stated that level 50 is the cap for the time being - no plans to raise it.

I'm sure they will continue to gradually add stuff to the ENDGAME (that word has 'end' in it - could it mean something?), but nothing radical until CoV comes out this time next year.

"NEXT YEAR?!?"
(sound of self-inflicted head wound)


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QFT

*snicker*

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Holy Cucamonga..way to revive an old thread

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I'm just giving credit where credit's due.

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I liked Gaffer. He had a way of being frank while being discrete about certain privy details. _Castle_ posts in that same vein.

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Yes...continue, and soon, I will be the only one people can recognize! MUWAHAHAH!

And this cham-pag-nee takes awhile, ok?

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LOL

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Since no one can tell whether I'm a fanboynista or a "whiner" anymore...

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We both live in the grey area between both groups called "Too much free time on their hands."

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There is no grey area! You either love the devs and will sell your soul to Statesman or you hate them and want to <very censored>!

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They grey area has officially been targeted by the orbital laser platform. Kiss your [censored] goodbye in 5... 4... 3... 2...

<insert clip from Akira>

Since no one can tell whether I'm a fanboynista or a "whiner" anymore...

Maybe Jack should get off his tukus, and achieve formal F.C. status in the forum by posting his request. Parking at 9999 posts is just wrong.

I believe you're right. Aside from a couple of trite 'kicked in the nads' comments, the criticism has been fairly mild with the grumbling barely audible after a few days.

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I was saddened to hear this was in Austin.
I was extra sad to hear of a similar location in New York, just a state away, but this location didn't have plans for a similar event.
Ah, well...

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One thing at a time....

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See, first comes the pretty ponies, then the house calls to every CoH subscriber. There's a method to the madness.

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The fact that you don't like the PvP zones does not relegate them to "not content".

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True. PvP zones have only been the primary focus of 3 of the last 4 Issues of 'content' for CoH's playerbase, whose overwhelming majority have little interest in PvP. Thankfully, there are PvE missions in those PvP zones if you can dodge the Stalkers.

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I'm playing Devil's Advocate for a sec:

What about the people that only have CoV? Don't you think they are elated to get new content after having a toon stalled at 40 for 4 months while their hero counterparts are strolling around at 50?

I think Abe Lincoln said it best: You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

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That's a good trick since CoV came out 3 months ago.

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There are several 'outdoor' instanced missions set in Paragon City available to CoV players.

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*Hands Clintonian a sarcasm detector*

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Stupid temp power that doesn't scale to level 40+ mobs...