ClawsandEffect

dingdingdingding

We have a winner ladies and gentlemen!

That is the entire point of ANY powerset, to be fun to play. If everyone found the same thing fun, there would only be one powerset. Thankfully, that isn't the case, and we have a wide variety of powersets, ATs, and playstyles to choose from.

And for the record, a team succeeds or fails AS A TEAM. A team is not a couple people doing everything with 6 leeching off them. As long as everyone is doing something, they are contributing. Hell, if someone can make me laugh while I'm playing they are welcome on my team anytime, regardless of what else they may be doing. Fun trumps efficiency every time. I'll take the slow moving inefficient team that is fun over the fast moving one that I'm expected to deal X amount of AoE damage every second or I'm considered a leecher any day.

No. If they are using their powers and contributing to the success of the team, they are not leeching. More importantly, are they fun to have on the team? Is the team made more enjoyable by their presence? If the answer to those questions is yes, then I would prefer that person over someone like you any day of the week. I play the game to have fun, and the way you keep saying it should be played does not sound fun in the slightest.

The way you keep talking, it sounds like you consider anyone who plays in any way other than how YOU want them to is a leecher. Elitism makes the game less fun for it's victims, you would do well to remember that. Could you please provide me with your global name so I can put you on ignore before I ever have to end up on a team with you?

Or I can invite you to my GM hunting team and call you a leecher because all you have is AoE attacks that deal crap damage to a single target, does that sound like fun? Thought not.

You can go ahead and insist that your way is the only right way all you want, I'll go play with the clueless people who pick their powersets because they sound fun instead of how efficiently they farm. And I won't be the one getting all bent out of shape and not having any fun because someone plays in a way I don't like.

It's a video game, stop taking it so damn seriously.

Umm, your math is highly suspect. If it worked the way you wanted it to, the set as a whole will deal less AoE damage. It is true. Chaining the AoEs will deal less damage than using builders between them.

Builder-Builder-Builder-Sweeping Cross-Builder-Builder-Builder-Spinning Strike will deal more damage than Builder-Builder-Sweeping Cross-Spinning Strike.

If you are playing on a team, or at higher difficulty, there will be a boss or LT you can focus the single target builders on, and the AoEs will take out the minions.

Your way would have the LT or boss still alive after chaining the AoEs, and the minions might be alive too, because Sweeping Cross would deal less damage if it were a builder.

Your proposal only works when you chain the powers in a specific order. And unless I'm mistaken, wasn't the set designed in such a way that using the powers in a specific order is unnecessary?

You're trying to defeat the entire purpose of making the combo builders and finishers interchangeable by insisting that there is only one order you can possibly use the powers in. The set was designed specifically so you don't have to use them in a certain order for it to work right.

Why are you insisting that YOUR way is the only correct way to play the set? Because that's exactly what you are doing, you're saying "It should work like THIS, because THIS is the only correct way for it to work" and you're completely ignoring the point of the way the set is designed when you do so.

Also, hilarious that the set is only 2 days old and some people have already decided what the one and only correct way to play it is.

The way it is now, you have an AoE finisher available at no later than level 4 on any AT that takes it. Why is that a bad thing? If you don't like Sweeping Cross, I see no rule anywhere that says you HAVE to take it. Just skip it, and for the love of Pete stop trying to make the devs change the set so you can have your way.

It is fine the way it is, the only people that even CARE about AoE DPS are the hardcore min/maxers, most people who play the set just want to have fun punching and kneeing people with a cool looking and sounding set of powers.

Which is exactly what the set was designed for - looking cool and performing decently without having to use a frigging calculator to figure out your attack chain.

Now who's being condescending?

We both have a perfectly logical reason for not wanting Sweeping Cross to become a builder instead of a finisher: If Combo Levels no longer affect it's damage output, the set's AoE damage potential is lower.

Not opinion, FACT. If one of the set's 2 AoEs is changed to do less damage, the set as a whole will do less AoE damage.

If you don't like the fact that Sweeping Cross "makes the other finishers weaker" (which is completely illogical), you have every right to skip it.

It's funny how you'll call someone a fanboy while you're demanding changes to a set that will make the set worse, for no better reason than YOU don't like it the way it is.

I suppose that makes ME a fanboy too, just because I think the set is fine the way it is set up. And I AM looking at it objectively. The change you are proposing will make the set worse at something it is already being viewed as being bad at, but you don't care because in your mind Sweeping Cross makes the other finishers weaker (which still makes no sense)

Really? You mean after you use Sweeping Cross you can't build more combo levels? You can't use the build up power that gives you 3 levels automatically?

It's not like building up to combo level 3 is difficult, and it's not like you have to wait 2 minutes before you can do it again. It is perfectly feasible to go Combo-->Spinning Strike-->Combo-->Sweeping Cross (While Spinning Strike is recharging)-->Combat Readiness-->Crushing Uppercut. That way you use all 3 finishers in an order that makes sense, and nothing is being made weaker by using anything else.

More to the point:

In a set that is already being criticized for having "weak" AoE (I disagree, but that's beside the point), why are you so determined that 1 of the 2 AoEs in the set should have nearly half of it's potential damage taken away from it? Because that would be the result if Sweeping Cross were no longer a finisher, it would lose a large chunk of it's damage potential when combo levels no longer affect it's damage output.

Why are you calling for a nerf to the AoE of a set that is already being seen as not having enough in the first place?

Except it's NOT rendered obsolete by the mechanic.

I one-shotted 5 enemies at once on my brute by using Sweeping Cross at combo level 3. I was level FOUR at the time.

It is a useful AoE that is buffed by the unique mechanic of the set, and it's available very early. That's why it shouldn't be changed.

When it becomes "obsolete" later on, you can simply respec out of it or stop using it. Those are much better options than taking a hard hitting AoE finisher away from low level Street Justice characters.

You can't assume that what is useful at level 50 is useful at level 8, for obvious reasons.

If it's such a great AoE, why are it and Confront the most frequently skipped powers in Fire Melee? I can count on one hand the number of Fire Melee characters I have EVER seen with Fire Breath.

You have to leave melee range to use it, which doesn't work well with a melee character. Especially if that character has a power that requires them to stay in melee (AAO, Invincibility, RttC, Entropy Aura)

Using Fire Breath actually lowers your damage output (and survivability for some sets) simply because you have to reposition a great deal to effectively use it, which eats up time you could have used on other attacks.

And what enhancement is wasted when you slot, say, Lotus Drops with Obliteration?

None. Every piece of that set will enhance something that can be enhanced about that power.

You can't enhance the range of melee powers, they are flagged to not allow it at all.

Therefore, the Damage/Range enhancement is nothing more than a half-strength Damage enhancement in melee powers, which wasn't a problem because you can't slot that enhancement in a melee power. Until now.

Simply put, no power should accept an IO set that contains an enhancement that is useless to it. (I suppose Accuracy enhancement in autohit powers would be an exception, mostly because there are very few autohit powers and Accuracy is found in every set available to any of them.)

Look at sniper sets. You can slot a ranged set in a snipe power, but you cannot slot a sniper set in a ranged power. Why? Because the sniper set contains Interrupt Reduction, which is useless in a ranged power.

So, in other words you want the entire combo system to be useless until level 18 or 26 when you'd get your first finisher? Because that's what would happen if you make it a builder.

It's the third attack in the set, and available at level 2 on 3 out of the 4 ATs it's available on precisely so you can actually use the unique mechanic of the set as early as possible.

Bull.

Dark Melee has the weakest AoE of all melee sets. Unless you count 2 powers that deal less damage than Shadow Punch available every 2 minutes as "AoE". I don't.

As far as useful AoE goes, Dark Melee has.....Shadow Maul, and that's it. Yet Dark Melee seems to be pretty popular, in spite of it's pathetic AoE output.

Martial Arts has Dragon's Tail as it's sole AoE power. In terms of number of AoEs, Street Justice has more, and one of them hits harder than Dragon's Tail.

Fire Melee has Fire Sword Circle, and that's it (unless you are a tank). Yet Fire is held up as a "good AoE" set.

Is it Spines or Electric? No. But it's not the worst AoE. It is not difficult to hit multiple targets with Sweeping Cross, slightly easier than Shadow Maul in fact. It hits just as hard, and takes less than half the time of Shadow Maul too. Yet Dark Melee has better AoE? I don't think so.

The way Spinning Strike works is interesting. It has a 6' radius, that is true. But that radius is not centered on you, it's centered on your target. That means you can fit more enemies into that radius (which is a 12' diameter circle), because you are not taking up space in the middle of it. If you fire it from it's max range, you can reliably hit the majority, if not all, of a spawn. If you think it sucks, you're using it wrong. Don't target the guy standing right next to you, target the guy in the back of the spawn and you'll hit all the ones between you as well.

I'm tired of this whole "it's the worst AoE of any melee set there is" line of bull that several people are pushing. It is patently untrue, but it keeps getting touted as though it is a self-evident truth.

If they were not charging for Street Justice and Beam Rifle, it is very likely neither one of those sets would exist.

Did you realize that Paragon Studios is HIRING again? I bet not.

What do you think they are using to hire those people? Here's a hint: It's not our subscription fees.

Since Paragon Studios is hiring people, that means we will be getting even MORE new stuff, some of which will most definitely be free for VIPs.

Hmmm, we have a choice, the same amount of free stuff we've always gotten, at about the same pace we've gotten it.....or a bunch of new stuff if we purchase some of the new stuff. I know which one *I* would go with.

The OP apparently wants a bunch of new stuff at an accelerated pace, for free. The only reason we are getting as much new stuff as we are is because they are making more money to re-invest into the game. They are making that money from people buying things like power sets.

I don't care if you like it or not, that wasn't what I took issue with. You have every right to dislike anything you want to dislike, reasonable or not.

What I took issue with was your assertion that anyone playing Street Justice is automatically leeching off players with so-called "better" sets. Which is, as I said, a load of crap.

Absolute load of crap.

Saying that anyone who plays Street Justice is going to be nothing but a leech on teams with AoE is pure and utter bull feces.

I don't know what people YOU team with, but I have never been refused a team, or given crap while on one for not having enough AoE.

I don't know where you got the idea that AoE is the be all end all of the game, but there are quite a few things you can do for which too much AoE is a bad thing. Solo an AV with Electric Melee or Spines and tell me how useful all that AoE is.

Did it ever occur to you that there are people who like different things in a powerset? I bet not.

You might be mistaken on that.

At first report, it seems Street Justice has exceptional DPS potential when used by a scrapper. That might make it popular among the insanely built AV soloing scrapper crowd.

I'm enjoying it for the feel as well, but I also see the potential for some pretty respectable single target DPS out of it.

You need a target to use any of the melee cones as well, and they take PBAoE sets.

I cite as an example: Slice, Flashing Steel, Ripper, Eviscerate, Sweeping Strike. All melee cones that require a target, and all take PBAoE sets (there are more than that, but I don't feel like typing them all out)

The closest power to Spinning Strike is indeed, as Vanden mentioned, Thunder Strike. With that one, you target an enemy, and the AoEs radius is centered on that enemy instead of on you. It takes PBAoE sets as well.

My issue is with the Range enhancement component found in Targeted AoE sets, I know Posi's Blast for sure has one, and I think most of the others do as well. It is a completely useless enhancement for a melee power, as it will do nothing at all.

I have discovered what may be an issue with brutes.

My other brutes tend to hover at around +167% damage bonus running at full fury, my Street Justice brute, on the other hand, is apparently maxing out at just under +150%. A full 10% or so less than my other brutes.

My brute is only level 14 at the moment, so that could be a factor, and I need to get more data before I say anything is broken, but it seems like Street Justice is not building as much fury as other sets.

I can't recall a single instance in which the devs released the actual numbers of a set prior to it's release. Have never seen that happen since they started giving us the real numbers in the first place.

Maybe they could allow you to preview the set in the character creator before you buy it, similar to how they do costume pieces. That's going to be about the best you can ask for I think.

As far as the "no theme to the set" complaint goes: How many untrained street fighters specialize in a particular kind of attack? I see some stuns and knockback in there, which is thematic for a set in which you are hitting people, and matches up nicely with the similar themes found in MA and SS (also sets in which you hit people). Street fighting, by it's very nature, does not have a central defining characteristic, since all street fighting really is is doing what you have to do to win the fight.

And as far as lack of AoE goes: How many different ways are there to hit more than one person at a time with your fists and feet when you have no metahuman powers? Answer: Not many. Even the best multiple-opponent fighters are only actually hitting one person at a time.

There have been videos available to see the animations for at least the last few weeks.

Wait until Mid's has the set in it so you can check it out before you buy it. For the record, Mid's has the set in it NOW, so if you'd waited ONE DAY before dropping the cash on it you could have found out everything you wanted to know.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for someone who is going to spend money on something they know nothing about and then complain because they don't like it. Just because it came out yesterday doesn't mean you had to BUY it yesterday. If you had waited until Mid's released the information you could have seen it and saved yourself some buyer's remorse.

If the range enhancement found in all Targeted AoE sets does not actually increase the range of the power, then you would be correct sir. It should take PBAoE sets.

So you say.

I like it, and I disagree with your assessment, therefore your opinion is not the fact you seem to think it is.