Circeus_NA

These are additions that will be valid for I7 and are currently valid for the Test Server:

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33) PvP Only: Gauntlet works for secondary attacks only; primary attacks and auras do not Gauntlet

34) PvP Only: Chances for Gauntlet range from 6.7% to 43.5%

35) PvP Only: The Chances (#34) are calculated in a similar manner as End cost, however they are not directly tied to the End cost – it is a completely separate calculation.

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That's an acceptable answer. Sometimes I forget you're more responsive then other devs.

My concern with a lower start is simple: the time frame any sort of upswing for these things (PvE Combat Changes for DEF) or similarly downswing (Toggle Dropping) is many months. For example, Jack told me about the PvE Combat Change going back into October - that's 7 months ago. And people have been clamoring for DEF to better equate to RES since CoH beta.

The process for these sorts of things just takes too long. How long do you plan to look at this before you decide it needs a tweak (up or down)? 1 month? 2 months? 6 months?

And if you're concerned about raising it higher, then why not just give Tankers something else to compensate?

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Can't really give you numbers, since every power is different. It's calculated in the same manner that Endurance cost is, however, so the more end a power costs, the greater its chance for Taunt.

Chances range from 6.7% to 43.5% per attack (well, aside from 1 bug I just found, which gives a 100% chance to one power. Grr!)

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So we've only gone from a non-functional inherent to one that is, at best, 40% functional - and really something much less considering the 7% low end chance, and the fact that primary damaging powers don't Taunt.

Seems almost pointless.

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I am confused about item 22, is not combustion in the fire melee set, not the fire primary set? So, does it have taunt or gauntlet attached to it?

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For PvP it wouldn't Taunt. For PvE it would. Confusing, but apparently true. My work predates the PvP changes.

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BTW, he told me that at one point he had 3 stacking taunt icons on him during one of our slugfests.

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Cool. Now have they created a status sfx for Taunt, so that when you look at another player you can tell they're Taunted?

Edit: and sorry I'm grilling, but I've been dealing with a bug with NCSoft support that has required me to reinstall several times, and I'm first now downloading the patch.

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My taunt is well slotted (3 taunt enhancers) and I have 1 taunt enhancer in each primary attack.

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How would you know? I mean with 3 Taunt Enhancers in Taunt, you're basically never giving your attacks time to Taunt if you're using Taunt itself regularly.

Regarding #10, keep in mind #28 as well.

Also, I got no indication that there is a hard cap on Taunt Magnitude, but likely if there is, like most Hard caps, its not achievable in game through normal means. In other words, its meaningless (since there are no Taunt buffs).

But also that the magnitude itself (how much Taunt you do statck) is meaningless in terms of how Taunt works.

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Taunt resistance is available to more people, as you noted, and also shortens the duration of taunt effects, as opposed to allowing you to avoid some of them. As Taunt Resistance remains uncounterable (while DEF can be countered by inspirations), I doubt Resistance to the power will become redundant.

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I meant conceptually, not technically. There is a fine line I understand, but using DEF is more elegant and in line with the game, and not YAM (Yet Another Mechanic) - this game has too many mehcanics.

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At least when Kali tested her Ice Tanker against my Scrapper, taunt was an area of effect power, although the area was short and the chance to work kinda crippled it. Was that changed?

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1v1? How can you test multiple targets in that case? Or are you specifically discussing that AoE DEF worked against it? That would require a few thousand to-hit rolls to be certain. Do you have that data?

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When the area of effect power hits a target, the target has a chance - independent of yellow inspirations or Build Up = to be hit by the Taunt effect. Each target rolls for him or herself. At least, it was possible to taunt one Brute but not the Brute next to him/her, when neither had a toggle active.

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Okay, but is that because its a single target, or multiple target? Was this Taunt the power? Or an AoE attach, like Whirling Hands or Tremor?

Bridger mistakenly made this claim on the Euro forums. It didn't jive with other information I had, and I sought dev clarification. #17 is the result of that clarification.

These questions are asked so that when I do sit down to test this over the next week I have a basic understanding of how its supposed to function:

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Defense will now apply to all Taunt powers in Player versus Player combat (Ranged, or AoE, where appropriate). This replaces the previous 50% chance to work. Players now have more control over how their taunt affects targets.

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This is fairly straightforward. I do wonder if this makes specific Taunt Resistance redundant, but I guess there is room now for people to have Taunt Resistance where appropriate, when they do not otherwise have appropriate DEF.

My major concern is that DEF vs this will be relegated to Super Reflexes, Force Field, Ninjitsu, and Pool powers. For example, no Tanker sets provide Ranged or AoE DEF.

Also does this mean that Taunt (the power, not the effect) is AoE in PvP (5 Target), whereas it wasn't before? Otherwise I couldn't see how AoE works against Taunt the Power, only ranged. This needs clarification.

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Increased chance to Taunt for Pool/Manipulation/Challenge in PvP.

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If I understand this correctly, it means that Challenge still has a % chance to work as well as being able to be defended against. As opposed to Taunt which is 100% chance to work, if it hits.

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Tanker, Scrapper and Brute Taunt powers will now accept Accuracy Enhancements. Note that these enhancements will have no effect in PvE, as the powers automatically hit PvE targets. The change is made strictly for PvP purposes.

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A bit annoying, my guess is most people won't bother to slot for Accuracy in Taunt, but you never know. It does raise some questions with the next section...

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Tanker Inherent Gauntlet now works in PvP. Single target powers have a chance of Taunting the target hit, while Area of Effect powers have a much smaller chance of Taunting all targets in the radius.

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So, instead of being 5-target, Gauntlet is single Target in PvP?

What about Taunt itself?

Instead of Taunting what's hit, AoE powers now have a separate AoE Taunt in PvP that is an all or nothing vs all Targets? This seems wrong. Right now powers like Icicles, Blazing Aura, and Mudpots all Taunt what they hit.

Or, are they trying to say, when an AoE hits a target, it has a chance to Taunt its targets as well?

If so, does the Taunt from an AoE require a separate to-hit roll per target?

Or do AoEs just work like in PvE, what is hit, is Taunted?

How about auto-hit powers like Chilling Embrace, Energy Absorption, and Invincibility? Do these auto-hit and then have a chance to Taunt what they hit? Or do they not Taunt at all?

If you slot an Accuracy into a power like Icicles or Blazing Aura, does it help the Taunt? (presuming the Taunt is a separate attack roll in PvP)

People should read through the Taunt Guide for the current operation of Taunt, before asking questions.

Wrong agro and Taunt are not the same. Read through the OP.

Brute attacks litterally Taunt, but only single target.

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27) Brute Attacks do Taunt.

This may be correct, but I wonder why Brutes get Tanker inherent (I'm assuming that it is a version of Gauntlet that is producing the Taunt effect) as well as their own Brute inherent. How is this right? Do Brutes also get a psuedo-Gauntlet to Pool Power attacks? Auras that cause Taunt effects? This does not seem good to me. No wonder Tankers are so hard to find anymore.

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Brute attacks Taunt (single Target), they do not Gauntlet (5-target). So its not quite the same. Right? Wrong? I'm not sure. Brute Auras do also Taunt the same way Tanker ones do. I imagine pool powers do to, but I didn't ask that question. I think we'll get a better feeling for if this is a real balance issue if crossovers do eventually happen.

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Tested : an attack against a Fire Thorn Caster got him to turn around, throw Flares, and stay in the debuff patch.

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Try this: Use Fearsome Stare on some Fire Thorn Casters. Then use Tar Patch.

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Tar Patch does not cause this effect, because it does no damage, and thus the villains do not fear it.

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You're wrong, it does, but only on certain specific mobs - Fire Thorn Casters come to mind.

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Baka.

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You could have just called me a fool instead of using a foreign language.

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So, does this mean that Statesman is no longer associated with the game on a major scale? Because those messages sort of read like a baton passing.

And is that the "State of the Game" that I lobbied for, and that we were promised? - I hope not.

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In answer to your first question, I'm still involved with CoH/CoV.

As to your second, I don't remember a promise about a "state of the game", though I do remember saying it was a good idea. But yeah, I think this does classify as a state of the game address - where we're at, what we're doing in the future.

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Positron did right here.

That said, his address only discusses the future, and nothing about how you (plural, Cryptic) see the game today. Or the problems with it that you'd like to solve in the future.

It's a "State of the Future Game" not a "State of the Game".

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If you took Instant Healing and changed it so that it made each hit act like illusory damage -- i.e., for each hit you take, a second or two after the hit you 'instantly healed' part of the damage, then what you'd have would be a defense that would scale the same way that Resistance and Defense did, and could be balanced against them -- 40% Resistance, 40% Defense, and 40% Instant Healing would all, over time, protect a character from 40% of the incoming damage.

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Can't be done without new tech. Significant new tech. This was one of the ideas I put forward in I3, before I really knew what limitations we have in the system.

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So then, how does Spectral Wounds work? Because it seems like what's being suggested is just all damage vs the character with Instant Healing working like Spectral Wounds damage.

So, does this mean that Statesman is no longer associated with the game on a major scale? Because those messages sort of read like a baton passing.

And is that the "State of the Game" that I lobbied for, and that we were promised? - I hope not.

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It's also represented in a few other powers. Freezing Rain, for example, or Blizzard. Lots of patch damages seem to express it. It, or something like it, can also be expressed when attacking enemies in a way so that they can't fight back for 10 seconds (ie : slows on enemies with few powers, staying at range).

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Right. Tar Patch comes to mind.

Wrote a guide about Taunting:

So you want to know about Taunt...

Well, I probably should have gotten my act together and posted this sooner, but my time was sort of tight a few months back when I first gathered all this information together.

I want to thank all those who helped me behind the scenes, you know who you are, and no I'm not going to list you all, except for Liquid who sort of pushed me into doing this. We got into a discussion where we realized there were a lot of questions that we really didn’t know the answers to. So we formulated a list of questions, and I set out getting them answered.

Yes, much of this information comes from me pestering the devs.

If you see anything in game that conflicts, consider it a bug at this point, report it, and complain vehemently on the forums. Please.

And, finally, please, ask any other questions about Taunt/Gauntlet that need answering here, I’ll be PMing appropriately to keep some eyes on this thread.

*****

The following is a list of things you either knew, or did not know, about Taunt/Gauntlet:

1) Taunt, the effect, is not binary (on or off), it has a Magnitude.

2) Taunt, the effect, has Duration.

3) Taunt, the effect, has an Area of Effect (AoE).

4) Taunt, the effect, is not the same system as “Hate”. Quoted because “Hate” doesn’t even exist as a system; it’s really a formula that is a combination of Threat Rating, Damage, and Healing.

5) Taunt, the effect, will always override “Hate”.

6) Taunt, the power, has a fixed Magnitude.

7) Gauntlet has a fixed Magnitude.

8) Taunt Aura’s all have a fixed Magnitude, but that Magnitude varies from power to power, some powers, like Chilling Embrace, simply are stronger.

9) Gauntlet is a Taunt.

10) The Magnitudes of Taunt effects stack differently than other effects in game. Instead they stack from the same source (but not the same power), and do not stack from different sources.

11) The Gauntlet buff icon is a placebo; there is no real power behind it. The effects of Gauntlet are built into each power.

12) The AoE for Taunt, the power, is 15’

13) Duration and AoE for Gauntlet are hard coded but vary from power to power using the End costs and/or Levels (Tier) of the powers as a guideline, but not a hard and fast rule because there are exceptions. Example: Total Focus has a radius that is 50% larger than Energy Transfer.

14) The AoE for Gauntlet ranges from an 8' to 15' radius depending on the power it’s built into, but is mostly, 8', and never more than 15'.

15) The Duration of a Taunt effect scales with level, it’s the maximum that’s hard coded.

16) Gauntlet is a Taunt effect; it’s just lower duration than the power Taunt.

17) Damage done does not affect a Taunt effect’s effectiveness at any time, ever, not Duration, not AoE, and not Magnitude.

18) Pool Power attacks all use Gauntlet.

19) Some Temp Power attacks use Gauntlet, some don’t. The older the Temp Power attack, the more likely it is to use Gauntlet. If a power does one Inherent effect (say Critical Hit) and not another (say Gauntlet) then report it as a bug, otherwise assume its intentional.

20) Epic Pool attack powers all use Gauntlet.

21) All Tanker attack powers have Gauntlet.

22) An Aura/AoE in a Tanker Defensive set does not have Gauntlet, but does have a built in Taunt in addition to its other effects. These are: Blazing Aura, Consume, Combustion, Rise of the Phoenix, Chilling Embrace, Icicles, Energy Absorption, Invincibility, and Mud Pots.

23) The exception to #22 is Burn which does not Taunt, and does not have Gauntlet.

23) The AoE of Taunt Auras are the same as their power radius.

24) Taunt Duration has a hard cap; it’s slightly higher than what a level 50 Tanker with 6 Taunt SOs can achieve.

25) Taunt Durations do not stack in an additive manner. They sort of overlap for purposes of determining who’s “in charge” (see next entry).

26) Taunting works on a priority FIFO (First In First Out; add to the head, remove from the tail, tail is “in charge”) basis with tail replacement. The current Taunter is the FIFO tail, and they will loose control under the following circumstances: they no longer have an active Taunt, OR the remaining Duration of another Taunter in line is twice the current Taunter’s remaining Duration.

27) Brute Attacks do Taunt.

28) Magnitude is basically ignored otherwise, it is only used to determine if something is or is not Taunted. As in, if there is a magnitude of Taunt on the target, then the target is Taunted.

29) Taunt does not change the agro limit (17 targets). Any targets that are over Taunted beyond the agro limit should cease to be Taunted. [/b]Any other behavior is a bug (.e.g., the “conga line of stupidity”).[/b]

30) The FIFO (#26) is checked every “activation period” of the individual powers, meaning that its checked on a power by power basis with respect to the individuals controlling or vying for Taunt control.

31) Tanker attacks still cause normal agro in addition to Taunting.

32) The “fear” effect of a power like Burn is referred to as “Feeling”. This is a system or calculation that can overcome Taunt. In other words, things run, because they're scared.

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While I agree with your general point that tankers manage quite well in PvP as uber-scrappers, their damage isn't 80% of a blaster's. Their AT scalar is, but their actual damage dealt isn't anywhere close. Don't give people the wrong impression.

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How you can post that, and at the same time not see the problem with that statement I'm not sure.

If Tankers operate as anything other than Tankers at any point in the game then at that point in the game they're broken, despite if they're functional.

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They weren't phased. They were all in melee range. A bug is remotely possible, but... on multiple occasions I did not hit every target within range.

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Personally I'd say its a bug or observer error Kali. If Energy Absorption isn't auto-hit in PvP then despite their excellent performance in PvP, Ice Tankers would ultimately be broken in PvP, as EA, despite how we currently tend to use it since its a defensive power, and is a significant portion of the devs' "rigid box".

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Gauntlet will help, but only on a proactive level. And its still not clear if this will cover Taunt Auras like Invincibility and Chilling Embrace.

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Maybe Invinc needs it, but to be quite honest, I haven't needed it the least bit in my Chilling Embrace... I mean it's an auto-hit slow and no one's ever AS'd me through it. Tack on the Artic mastery pool and Teleport foe, and no one will escape from your melee range if don't want them too... definitely not SuperLeapers.

..I *think* anyway... Maybe if they had SB on them they could...

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Right but, if Blazing Aura, Icicles, and Mudpots benefit from the boost (guessing that the do), why shouldn't Chilling Embrace, Invincibility, and Energy Absorption?

Truth is, I'm guessing that auto-hit powers are being excempt from the PvP fix altogether - there's always a catch to such changes, and they just haven't bothered to give the complete story yet - which likely won't happen until patch notes.