Charnell

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Most new macs are windows compatible nowadays.
My friend played a CoX trial on her new mac thing. She just installed XP and ran it.

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Very true, although I'm not sure how well it would run through a Windows emulation, There are things like map plug-ins that obviously would not be accessible to the Mac community.

The Mac-only exclusive of a 'straight to mission teleport' is an odd choice in my opinion, Mac users any less capable of finding the mission entrance manually? - no!, ahh well... at least we know what the 57 Month Veteran award is going to be for the rest of us.

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Sorry. I meant to say most new Macs are actually just pc's. U can install XP natively. No emulation rubbish.
See - http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/bootcamp.html

Most new macs are windows compatible nowadays.
My friend played a CoX trial on her new mac thing. She just installed XP and ran it.

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Origin: He has Earth's Embrace power. This requires you to be on the ground to use. Some twerp thought that if you where in the water you wern't on the ground.

"Who is the more foolish? the fool, or the fool that follows him?"

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It has always seemed nonsense to me but nearly every team I have ran shadowhunter with insists it is true.
I didnt think the engine could even support terrain effects?

Its silly yes but seems easier to just go along with it rather than stand around arguing over some sill myth.

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Lag ridden piece of [censored],the servers are so old the hamster cant cope with the extra 20 ppl that have come back.
If standing still clicking the same power for 10mins is your idea of fun then boy are you in for a treat.
Bet it was fun with 5 ppl on the test centre though when they "Tested it thouroughly".
Feel sorry for any new ppl starting to play,they will get lagged to hell and quit.
NCsoft better start pulling their fingers out because there are games looming in the distance that WILL draw people away.
A no brainer for me is advertise on BBC3 by sponsoring Heroes,would be well worth the cost.

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OMG SACRILEGE! The devs have assured us countless times that our EU servers are bleeding edge technology! They process data on a quantum level that technically works 5 seconds in the future.
Just a pity that it seems to be connected to the rest of the internet through a rusty 1mm wire trailing through a flooded disused restroom floor and out the window.

Have you updated your gfx drivers, changed providers, emigrated, moved to defiant?

On the Praetorian AV Shadowhunter does it really affect his regen if he is pulled into the water?

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Ok nevermind i´ll try searching on the stateside forum.

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Well advice that side will be no more relevant than here.
PvP could well be a completely different prospect.

Whats the point in advising something that will probably be nerfed out of recognition? And chances are anything that is currently a high performance pvp set will no longer be that high performance in i13.

At this point your guess is as good as anyones.

Thnx for the summary maelwys.

Personally I dont mind some of the other changes. The movement suppr sucks. Zonal pvp is going to be a mess. SS/SJ being a waste of slots and TP being king. Gank squads will rule as it will be impossible to escape. Stalkers will be even more unbeatable.
Even more base camping for heroes.
I truly hope it wont be half as bad as i am thinking but i just cant see it.
And the fact pvp zones arent getting any attention till post i13 doesnt help.

im curious to what looks like a shield bash? I thought there was just that tp attack thing?

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This dumbed and slowed down version of pseudo-pve seems less exciting than live commentary on a GCSE exam. lolwut

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^^dis, they just killed the best bit about CoX PvP, the fact its the fastest, most dynamic of any MMO

rochambo ftl

also, correct me if im wrong, did they just remove hold protection in PvP?

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Yes no mez protection whatsoever bar kb prot.
Tbh all the other changes I could live with. For instance I wouldnt miss purpled perma 2x rage brutes. And as I dont farm heavily I think I can appreciate the diminishing returns dynamic even if i cant completely agree with it.

Movement suppression is just awful.

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The ubiquitous stalkers with tp foe will pluck you out of the sky (your movement suppressed)

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Being teleported won't suppress the targets movement, only the caster. Says so on the US boards (by castle), buggered if I can be bothered looking for it though.

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Think about it. Stalker will tp foe, hit you with an attack chain, em will mez you as well as suppressing movement. Then the placate and finish. Even tankers could go down like squishies with this change.

Stalkers are already lethal with tp foe tactics and the fact there is very few protections from it. These changes seem to make those tactics twice as annoying and deadly.

And please dont tell me about popping oranges or bringing a kin along. I thought the whole point of the pvp reboot is to prevent exactly this sort of scenario. And perma popping oranges is pretty tiresome as your time in zone is limited untill they run out then you have to zone to a contact.

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Here's an interesting question for all you hardcore PvPers.

Does Dark Mastery for scrappers, with the mez changes, become substantially better?

A Hold and an Immobilize in one set seems like with these changes would benefit a scrapper muchly.

So would the best APP for a DM/Regen scrapper be to go DM/Regen/Dark instead of Body/Weapons for FA (which something tells me will be getting a substantial nerf)?

I've tried dark Mastery in PvP before and the immobilize was useful since I could stack it with Midnight Grasp to pin a target down for a short length of time but Petrifying gaze was damned useless and it didn't seem to hold anyone.

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With the proposed movement suppression any attack will basically root or severely slow down your opponent. Just tp foe, click follow and start wailing on them.

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My big hope is that I'll actually get some decent aerial combat out of all this - the few times I actually got into a decent air battle are some of my best pvp experiences...


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THIS!!!! My most favourite pvp battles have been when every1s been using fly/hover.
Close combat flying pvp battles are some of the funniest battles you could have imo, even with the supression i can still have good close combat flying matches with my friends. Kinda cant with randoms in zones since most pvpers take ss/sj, maybe hover/tp might be a usefull pvp technique now.

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No chance. The ubiquitous stalkers with tp foe will pluck you out of the sky (your movement suppressed) then AS>Placate> kill you at their leisure. Or even better pop you next to a mob who will keep you suppressed. And you will only make that situation worse by attacking the mob or stalker.

Im sure blasters could use similar tactics.

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If your target is targeting you, then you're under the 2s travel suppression, which = no TP

Edit: Hush my mouth, seems TP, TP team, recall friend and TP foe are Unsuppressed...

that's dumb



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Yeh i gotta say that is incredible. I am really struggling to see how that introduces balance.

Well maybe stone tankers and brutes can join in now. Seeing as they will be moving around at the same speed as everyone else.

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Oh i13 is already out? Must have some problem with the updater

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No harm with a little speculation based of the numbers on test.

We can pretty much guarentee PvP will not be the same as we know it. I think its fair to expect people to talk about it.

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Yeh. I am currently trying to keep an optimistic view of the changes.

Either way it does seem pvp is going to be a hugely different game after i13.

Yeah have to second that. Not that I am ungrateful for the great stuff announced for i13 but improving the search engine would be a huge QoL improvement.

Then again we are EU players with a smaller player base whereas US side I think getting teams is easier due to greater player numbers, so maybe not as big an issue?

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Seems a bit odd to have the same power in two pools

[/ QUOTE ]You don't play Villains much, do you?

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I got a 50 villain? But no I play villains less. Still dont see why there should be two almost identical powers in that epic set.

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there has been some suggestion on the US forums that caltops will be removed, to pave the way to proliferate Ninjitsu to scrappers.Thi has lead to much histeria.

Personally, I think this is unlikely, as Castle says it is the least taken powers that will be removed, and I think Caltrops is the most taken power in that pool (Shiruken the least).

As for the thinking behind it, currently Body Mastery has 2 powers that are much better than anything else avaialble: Conserve Power and FA. As a result, probably about 80% of scrappers feel they have to take Body Mastery. Ether splitting those two powers between different pools, or dupicating them, would lead to more players choosing different pools.

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Aw I liek trops
Still opens up a pool that I would rarely take over body mastery. I hope it is one of the shurikens over trops though. Cant see the need for two shuriken powers myself.

FA in weapons mastery! That sounds great. I expect one of the shurikens is getting dropped.
Respec for my scrapper!

I am really happy about i13 now. I have always hoped that the devs would spend more time on current game mechanics and current content than adding more new stuff.

All of the current power changes imo are an excellent improvement and even the kheld changes which I feel still leaves them a little confused are still a great step in the right direction.
The toggle dropping change is just excellent on every level and is a huge QoL improvement for practically everybody.

Revised opinion re i13=win

Praf I dont remember insulting you beyond disagreeing with you so why the veiled insults to me?

Well I am not going to continue repeating myself for you both to continue post disections.

Actions speak louder than words. If you want to prove any of what you say just send me a tell @charnell

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PBs can survive well in pvp but to say only two builds can beat them is so far from the truth.

Offhand - Any rad/cold debuffer, ss/wp brute, em/wp stalker, fire or ice/nrg blaster, any domi. Probably a bs/fire scrapper.

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Cold I've covered. Rad hasn't a hope, simply not enough -recharge to counter either Quantum Flight or the uninterruptable self-healing potential (Essence Boost 80% heal and HP Buff, Dwarf 50% Heal, Human 50% Heal), and not enough -resistance to counter Dwarf or Light Form. Super Strength has no worthwhile mez and is melee-only and therefore ignorable, ditto for Energy Melee (even with the stuns. Breakfrees, Dwarf and Light form will negate them if they ever actually manage to get within melee range of the PB). An Ice/NRG Blaster has not got enough -recharge to counter Quantum Flight nor enough unresisted damage to hit through Dwarf or Light Form. No Dominator except for /Psi is relevant; since they will not be able to stop the PB from TPing or shifting into Quantum Flight, they will stop building Domination and become easy to kite.

You have to remember that in a duelling situation a Peacebringer has greater survivability than a Regen Scrapper with Phase Shift even before you consider Light Form or Dwarf Form.

Two self heals - clones of Reconstruction and Dull Pain - and over 35% Resistance to everything but Psi, plus Quantum Flight, which is effectively Phase Shift on steroids with half the recharge time. Add in Light Form, Dwarf Form, and the inherent Dwarf Form Teleport and you are virtually unkillable.

It may technically be as cheesy as a Stalker staying in Hide the whole time, but with a Peacebringer you are visible the entire time, and in many cases actually trading blows. Unlike most other classes with uninterruptable self-heals, you also have ranged attacks and can annoy your pursuer and goad them into chasing you.

Yes, you can do a similar kind of "force a draw" thing on other ATs, but Peacebringers will do it better; and will be beatable by far fewer combinations. The only thing more survivable is a mobile Stalker that just sits at the stealth cap for the full ten minute duration of the duel.

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Dwarf atm is ok at best. An em stalker will kill you in two attack chains. Any one of the countless ss/wp/soul brutes running around with perma 2x rage will destroy dwarf very very quickly.

We are talking lvl 50 here? Lightform is great while its up but once that drops you have a second where you will die in one hit. Any pvp'er with awareness of that will kill you. And that covers almost any casual pvp'er. I always watch for god mode drops against anyone that uses them.

And yes if you go that far with it what you are saying is practically true for any AT whatsoever. Quantum flight is just phase shift and lightform and dwarf to a lesser degree are god modes. All ATs get access to one or both of them?

For instance a fire/em blaster can get phase shift and force of nature and tp. So whats the difference? Oh yeh a blaster outdamages a pb in any form by a huge factor.

And further where are all these unbeatable PBs anyway? In all my time in zones or arena I have seen very few. And those i do I only remember one who was actually ok but that was in sirens. Please come out and play and put me to shame.

Please come to RV!

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TPing away is not dueling. And usually its good form to let your opponent set up to some degree.


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And bad form to use inspirations I suppose? Hence your problem with break frees. I can't be doing with any of this erzatz chivalry crud. As far as I'm concered all's fair in love and war, and letting someone set up pets is shear stupidity, as is being defeated when you could retreat and regroup. He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day.

That's the only way I fight, you can like it or lump it.

So you PvP with self imposed restraints, then complain when it puts your AT at a disadvantage. I suppose you think it is bad form for a stalker to use hide to?

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Praf seriously what are you talking about?? A 1v1 arena match? Sure use every power available bar temps and pop as many insps as you want. I find either of those constraints quite stupid and usually they come from dominators or trollers who dont like to lose.

And seriously you think its skillfull to kill a MM while he is setting up? Decent players usually give set up time for all the various reasons they unbalance a fight. A tanker can toggle up in 10 seconds and be at full strength while a MM can take 60.

And mostly in fightclub zonal duels people tend to stick somewhere near to the arena style constraints in my experience. Mainly because it is so god damn far to arena terminals from zones.

And ultimately most people just want to see who will win in a fair fight.

And beyond that in zonal or team pvp I dont think a pb can contribute in the same league as a dedicated blaster or tanker.

The pb is still a distorted blapper. All its best attacks are melee and it has three shields and yet no mez prot. As i have stated before I dont understand the synergy there. Either keep the other powers and add 1pt of mez prot to each shield or just remove the shields and replace with more useful powers that will be worth taking.

And more than that how does it work conceptually that these space faring multi dimensional beings have the mental strength of a retarded chicken anyway?

PBs can survive well in pvp but to say only two builds can beat them is so far from the truth. Offhand - Any rad/cold debuffer, ss/wp brute, em/wp stalker, fire or ice/nrg blaster, any domi. Probably a bs/fire scrapper.

There is no combination of sets/skill/build that is unbeatable in pvp. And in the great scheme of things I would offhand say that a wp stalker has far better survivability with far less effort. Yes I can stay alive on my PB but then again I can stay alive on my other toons while also actually having something substantial to offer.

The only real reason I take my pb into pvp is purely for the fun factor. Beating somebody with a PB is always incredibly satisfying. Especially when it is the main person in the zone ripping on khelds. But if the action hots up and more serious players get involved I usually switch to something else.

So basically you have never fought a duel with you PB?
TPing away is not dueling. And usually its good form to let your opponent set up to some degree.

I have beaten Crabs easily in a rolling zonal battle but in a duel I have found them to be a lot harder.

I really want to duel your unbeaten PB. What server do you play on Praf?

I never said a crab would beat anything other than a pb. How many duels have u actually fought with a pb praf? I think I have used mine on a fair cross section of ATs in pvp. And Crabby's with all those pets out can suck end rapidly and no end makes a pb sad.

Maybe we should just end it here. Obviously I am not entitled to my opinion and I know nothing and am rubbish at playing khelds. Truthfully you are the first person to say this to me as responses from people i team with on my pb are quite the opposite but hey, who the hell are they to argue with you?

I could well be wrong and HEATs will be hugely improved in i13 but I cant see how anything much will change for them in PvP. I still find the mez prot trade off pretty odd for PBs. Maybe if they just deleted the shields and replaced them with better powers I would have been happier.

Oh sorry am I supposed to cast aspersions on Prafs pb skill here? Well sorry I have no idea what that skill is. Number crunching and churning out builds and facts never seem to have a direct link to actual skill in my experience and also I have never seen Praf in game.

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Just as a comparison, I went over to WAR to hook up with a RL friend. He needed me to buy the game because since beta ended, he has had precisely three PUGteams, none of them full and nowhere near getting a proper - scuse me - WAAAARGHband *splutter* together.

(Did I get that right or is it more towards the back of the throat?)

I've been a little luckier than that over the weekend, but it's never been better than a threesome at best and no-one talks.

Face it, kiddies, COH may be on the small side population-wise but it's very loyal, very healthy, and very sociable.

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Gotta agree. WaR felt very lonely. Played for 2 days with long sessions and while the pug system is great for just jumping in a team/pq no one speaks. Had one rvr team that were chatty but apart from that it is just silence.

I found the whole game pretty dull in comparison to CoX. Only got highest lvl 8 but have no desire to return.