Cavatina

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In the end we fed this thread, with opinions that really don't matter since the market still flourishes.


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Your opinions, our facts. But we know that's what you meant.

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I honestly think he really thinks he knows what he's talking about. Its sort of funny in a "how the hell did he survive highschool" way.

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... or else it was this. But hey, don't stop ranting on my account.

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Silly, Fulmens. *Everybody* knows the reason prices came down is because the evil marketeers were thwarted by the holding out of influence on the part of the general populace, not the increased drop rate of the recipes. /sarcasm

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Well, duh. thats how the Great Thomas Washington beat the Stamp beer Act and told the Britainese to get off our American lawn in 1492.

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Farming is boring but standing at WW looking for niches isn't? lol. Ok.... Different strokes i guess. Personally, i like using the powers i play the game to get. Maybe Hasten will help the recipes drop in WW faster.... Who knows?

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Yes. To me, hitting the same couple of buttons over and over on hilariously weak mobs that present no challenge to me at all is vastly more boring than playing around at wentworths for 5 minutes and then heading off to roleplay for a few hours with my SG while my bids fill.

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I'm going to make an assumption. Please correct me if I am wrong.

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Supply and demand, economy 101. I know people will always want to pay for something. It's the extreme's people will go to do so that makes me shake my head.

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You do realize that cannot work? There has to be some method of dividing stuff between players. There are many options: Lottery, Wait in line the longest, Someone arbitrarily deciding need, or whoever pays the most. The Black Market and Wentworth's work on the "he who pays the most" method. Purples prices simply reflect that. If you think purples are overpriced go out into the game, find them, and sell them or send the devs a PM.

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I never really posted that I wanted everyone to have EVERYTHING. I just made a comment towards JD billion in purple rant. And I agreed that it is ridiculous that something should sell for 1bil. On another note, I'm not saying we should all get this or that, but I did notice the price of Costume Wings drop dramatically when no one bought them for the laughable price of 14mil. My biggest suggestion is wait, not "we all should have everything".

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Many posters here in the market forum have no issues with the developers increasing drop rate. A drop rate increase does increase the items available for players. A price cap does not. That is where poster's here have issues.

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Your not reading my posts, I never once stated there should be a price cap, JD did.

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I have read your posts. I stated "I'm going to make an assumption. Please correct me if I am wrong" because I was making an assumption on what you thought. You corrected me. My assumption was incorrect because I have trouble understanding why you are talking and what you are trying to accomplish.

Many poster's in this thread are trying to educate others about how economics works and about Supply and Demand. You seem to at least state those words several times in your posts. Why you state those words I cannot grasp. You seem to think that because some aspects of the real world economy don't exist in CoH that we shouldn't think about economics in "CoH" because it is just a game. You also seem to think that saying "I have purples" makes someone an elitist pig who should go outside.

This is my understanding of the thread:
1) Understandable frustration at purple recipes
2) Understandable proposition of TWO solutions to the frustration
3) Explanation that one of those solutions would increase the problem
4) Denial that one solution increases the problem
5) Deluge of explanations, examples, proposals, tests that really... dude... really... it increases the problem
6) You stating "it's just a game go outside stop defending the market".

Do I get that right? Is that really how you fit into this conversation? We are attempting to educate someone how economics works and you are saying "no go outside and stop thinking". You seem to at least state the words "Supply and Demand". We are trying to hammer home that purples are incredibly rare, have become even more rare, and even more people want them.

How would "not being greedy jerks" solve the problem? Is your opinion that everyone should just let others have the purples instead of buying purples for themselves? What is your opinion?

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Smurph, the problem here I think, is both Jdouble and lacrymosa seem absolutely convinced that theres only a lack of a supply because of "ebil people like you who buy all the supply up the second it hits the market and then repost it for double its value."

Nevermind thats not economically feasible or possible, but theres been at least a statement or two to that effect

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(QR)
There's a few times they do talk. Most of the time, it's something like "CharacterName sighted!" Or simply, "Attack!"

They'll all be in the early game (since Clocks only play out pre-20 after all). Go roll up a Technology Origin Hero and run through the missions from your first two contacts or so. Those should be all the main ones.

As for how and why they talk? Well, they talk because the Clock King thinks they should.

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This.

The Clockwork King is an amazingly powerful psychic. So powerful that he can animate an entire army of metal automatons and make them "work" by sheer force of his psychic will. That they can talk is just a further delusion enforced upon reality by his psychic powers.

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In other news: JDouble, you are going on /ignore. You don't have a shot at the arguments, so you're taking a shot at the posters.

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Second this. Now if only there were a way to block out avatars too without just shutting off image loading in my browser.

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I'm way ahead of you guys. Actually it took me longer than usual to put JDouble on ignore, but Lacrymosa got on my ignore list within hours! *slow clap*

BTW, Milady's Knight you are awesome. You remain one of my favorite posters in these forums for your unending patience and willingness to educate people (even those that don't want to hear it) across any subject. Props.

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Lacrymosa has the honor of being the first person on my ignore list. Mostly because I find it absolutely hilarious that he thinks the best way to solve his argument with me was to threaten me.

I dont have Jdouble on ignore, but thaqts mostly because his views of how economics work are so laughable that even someone like me who's sum of economic knowledge is reading newsweek and social studies classes in highschool can read his ideas and start laughing uncontrollably.

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Funny how marketeers say "do the work" to get the stuffs. lol. The ones actually RUNNING MISSIONS and farming are the ones that want a higher drop rate. Seems to me, thats more like "work" than standing in front of a WW employee.

As ive said before, the market is and can be manipulated due to the lack of supply. That's what irritates me about the whole thing. I farm PI (peregrine island) for those AE heroes out there, and i can farm it for a week at a time with no drops. That's kinda low, imo. I AM doing "work" but i feel like we shouldn't HAVE to use WW if we don't want to just to get stuff. Why can't we just be able to "work" in the way WE like and not the way YOU like to get stuffs???

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Just because you like being inefficient doesnt mean i find it fun to farm to make my money.

Farming is boring as hell to me.

Or the pungent aroma of air-burst IOs

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If I wanted to put in the time I think I could operate a mega-store and negotiate with each individual customer. "Hire" a few friends, get a SG base or 12, pop out some google spreadsheets and we would essentially operate like any business. Plant ourselves afk next to BM/WW while we did other things. Buy goods just above the market cap prices. Sell way above that.

The most efficient thing to do would be for this forum to all get together and essentially make the consignment houses forum based. Every item that hits the BM/WW cap would be better traded via the forums and person to person trades. Maintain something close to equilibrium price on the boards.

What you'd do is post a trading price for that item. Players in game, trading amongst themselves would trade at that price. If it's clear that the whole inventory sells out then raise the price. If there are lots of people waiting around to sell the item then lower the price. Try to maintain a small buffer of people. Constantly adjust the price so the buffer stays about the same.

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Price caps please, this sounds fun!

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Smurph-mart.

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QR: Holy crap, if the price cap went to 150M, I would make so much money on an actual black market.

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QFT

I would stop listing any drops selling at 150mil inf cap and sell on the market forum and in broadcast of the game.

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I'd put bids on the market and resell off market. doubly creating a problem.

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I do not enjoy playing the market, and I am not disputing anthing you "experts" are saying.


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Unfortunatly, playing the market is part of the game, and the Dev's do it as well. I believe it was Ex Libris who said that playing the market adds dynamics into the game. It was the reason she gave as to why not to merge markets, and it fits quite nicely into why not to add a price cap into the market. That and supply on many items would be zero, and I would start selling my purple recipes for 400mil via posts on the market forums

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I love how people always assume that them not enjoying the market justifies ruining it for people who do.

Wonder how they'd feel if we took their favorite part of the game and said we didnt enjoy it therefore it should be gotten rid of.

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Perhaps your getting so worked up becuae you realize a price cap would ruin the market manipulators because the only way to make money off the market would be to go out and earn drops rather than use your vast amounts on Inf to push up prices for everyone else.


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I ran the ITF the other night and got an Armegeddon. I listed it for 200mil. I didn't flip it. I listed it for 200 mil because 150 people were bidding, and there were NONE selling. Flipping isn't raising prices, high demand and low supply is.

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not to mention, I bet if you had listed it for say..50..it woulda sold for at least a hundred.

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You're the one acting high and mighty and demanding people cater to your unrealistic. uneducated, childish notions of what drives a market and your insistence on the devs taking time out of their busy schedule to placate you.

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Can we all keep in mind, that its a PRETEND market. It doesn't exist. It's just code. Defending it doesn't exactly make you a better person, your not defending anything real, or anything that will change the world. Your literally defending a fake market. But that in of itself should tell you something...go outside, go eat a donut, do something just do it away from the comp, because if you think defending a VIDEO GAME market is worthwhile, you failed at life.

"Thats some powerful stupid" - QFT

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Defending a moron who wants rare items for free in a game like an MMO where that sort of system will kill the game doesnt make you a saint either. But then, given your sig, you arent looking for a reasoned debate so much as to start a fight. so welcome to my ignore list.

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JD, after IO's thats all its ever been, elitist sucking elitist. I'm just glade the purple IO's don't make your character "god", I'm happy in knowing purples dont "turn the tides" of battles. And honestly, I hope they don't. We don't need WoW "elites" running around claiming this or that. Like I posted before, I wish I could say your dealing with mature people....but we both that aint true. Some definitives will always exist. Aslong as there's a market for avarice then people will "feed". I'm sure some market head will make the claim, that its "your fault" that you didn't manipulate some form of the AH.

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he sad thing you can't do it in real life and have to get your kicks in a video game...then act all high and mighty like your something special and talk down to people.

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QFT over the many years of MMO's...

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I love how people like you are the same type who will then go clock in to your 9-5 job just like everyone and take this same sort of "talking down to" from their boss without so much as a whimper of protest.

The internet, making entitled whiners feel safe to scream about how unfair life is.

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Amazing how everyone in this section of the forums knows everything.....ever. even in the old PvP forums I;ve never seen a bunch of folks so full of themselves. You all go on patting yourself on the backs and feeding each others egos. I realize now why I've never posted here. You all are the most self righteous egotistical group I've ever seen. I suppose it takes a certain type of person to be drawn into the act of getting rich at the expense of other people. The sad thing you can't do it in real life and have to get your kicks in a video game...then act all high and mighty like your something special and talk down to people. Way to go guys. Good job.

Devs...1 billion inf is too much for one IO. Please do something. Thanks.

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You're the one acting high and mighty and demanding people cater to your unrealistic. uneducated, childish notions of what drives a market and your insistence on the devs taking time out of their busy schedule to placate you.

You're like the little kid throwing a screaming tantrum because mommy and daddy had to pay the rent instead of buying you a playstation 3.

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Look smurph, if they tripled the drop rate of purples but didnt have a price cap, the market manipulators would just buy them up and flip them still demanding 200 million to a billion inf for one IO.

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Obivously, the market doesn't work the way you think it does. Not even close.

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Honestly, just stop trying. The man's absolutely convinced that the market is easily manipulated by our ebil bankrolls.

Not really a typo win..but I regularly hit the jackpot in the sense of someone trying desperately to inflate the price of an IO thats going for 7-8 mil by buying 4-5 of mine for 10 mil without even tryin a lower bid.

Not that I'm complaining.

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is it bad that i just heard that in my head the way that Early from Squidbillies talks?

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I love Early. he reminds me of my hometown.

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do I WANT to drop 500mil on a single recipe?

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get out of the IWANTITNAO mind set and place a bid that is just enough to get what you want and wait. that is how i do it. might take a day or a week. but you will get it.

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I currently have 3 bids outstanding for an Armageddon triple and 2 Apocalypse triples. Each bid is for slightly over 100mil, and have been sitting for a month. I WANT those recipes, but considering the amount of work it takes me to make 100mil, I believe they are not worth more than that. Yet people are paying 200-500mil redside for these. I guess they want it more NAO than I do, and have more spare time to make that inf. Mr. Quint, stop acting like everyone around you is a noob and get over yourself. Not everyone thinks 10-25% of the inf cap for a single recipe is a worthwhile investment.

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so what are you doing with the drops that you get that you don't need? selling them to a vendor? why not spend some time at the market doing some research bout the recipe and made enhancement and see which is going for more then sell it in the way that will get you the highest amount. doesn't take a genius to figure that out. then you won't just be earning inf from doing the run but also from marketing your stuff you don't want/need at this time.

oh and just because most people stil don't seem to understand: PURPLES ARE SUPPOSSED TO BE ULTRA RARE. get over it.

i have plenty of toons that i would like to have purples in but i don't. big freakin deal. i wait for them to drop or wait for a bid to fill.

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Wow! I've learned so much from you in the last 30min than I have from reading this forum since i9 went live! /sarcasm off

Get over yourself dude, I've learned these lessons already. I know how to make inf in game. MY OPINION IS THAT AT CURRENT MARKET PRICES PURPLE RECIPES ARE NOT WORTH THE INVESTMENT. And that the people willing to drop 25% of the inf cap on a single recipe should be investigated.

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Yeah, because y'now, its totally difficult to make 500 million in a couple weeks at worst.

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It's funny, the people that spend thier time manipulating the market and getting rich off it, can't understand why I wouldn't take thier word as law? Go figure.

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Yeah, go figure. people would rather listen to their own uninformed, biased, illiterate, deluded opinion than listen to people who likely have the experience and know-how to know what they're talking about because obviously you know better than them what you're talking about and they're just trying to obfuscate the truth with their evil book learnins.

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Frankly, AE gave something that MMOs should've never given to their players, which is the ability to create their own in-game content at will. I'm not referring to players being given the option to affect the supposed "persistant" world environment of a MMO. Rather I'm speaking of giving players the ability fo create something to suit their own *motives* and *objectives*.

The idea of giving players the capability of creating their own content isn't a bad one in itself, however one has to take into account the fact that customers for the most part, will not regulate themselves. In the end, the responsibility of monitoring and enforcement falls back onto the shoulders of the game developer. As anyone who has owned a moderately sized business or worked for one will tell you, quality control and policy enforcement is extremely expensive and time consuming. It's not something that enterprises with limited resources (game developers in general are small to mid cap businesses for the most part) can handle effectively. It's one of the major reasons why many other instance based MMOs have declined to implement such a feature into their game even though they had the capability (and player demand) to do so.

On the other hand, this point is now moot in the case of CoX since AE was implemented and a major hoopla was made out of it . As such, PS has no option but to keep it around with all their original promises intact. Any attempt to gut the system or to remove it out right would equate a public relations disaster, not to mention a major turn-off to many existing and potential subscribers. One of the worst things you can do in business is to given something to customers and then take it away. Such moves usually incites major complaints from the customer base with mass cancellations of service close behind. This is not to mention such moves would be an outright acknowledgement that the company made a major mistake, giving ample ammunition for competitors and industry insiders to slam you in the public arena. This is why I find all the talk about taking AE out of CoX to be unrealistic, naive and just downright foolish. It simply doesn't make any sense from a business perspective. Now that the boat has sailed, the only thing every CoX subscriber can do is to live with it because it is here to stay with no recourse. For good or ill.

The real irony here is that instead of AE being the catalyst of player created content craze spreading across the MMO world, I suspect a lot of future and existing MMOs will point to CoX as an example why they won't be implementing content creation tools. A blip on the radar screen instead of a phenomenon I suppose.

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Frankly, I still think it was a good idea. Maybe now other mmos will understand that their fanbase isnt one homogenous group of roleplayers or hardcore pvpers or raiders.

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They knew people would be people, but they gave warnings anyway.

They were also prepared to take action if needed. And they told us that before it ever went to beta.

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and then they waited until it got really bad before making any sort of step, and therefore pissed a lot of people off and gave the antifarm crowd all the ammo they ever needed for spitting vitriol and doom.

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>.>

I have no idea what you're talking about.

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<3

Er..spark..I think you meant to say Saturday the 25th there, bud.

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Respec was going awesome, tearing through first mission. The guy on team says he is not getting Experience and decides to logout and quit.

The thing was this guy was LEVEL 50.

AE baby?

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Possib;ly. or just a moron. even before AE I've seen people join a TF or SF and complain of similar.