Carnifax

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Thing is the Devs know Dark is very powerful, its one of the reasons its the only Defender primary Controllers can't get.


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Kin and Rad are also very "powerful" defender primaries, the problem is that Dark is already too "controllery" (including the extra pet). In any case, based on my limited MM experience, Thugs/Dark is a VERY good combo .

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Indeed they are. Which is why MMs can't get either.

Controllers can, but I started a thread before saying that I thought that was a balancing flaw on the Devs part too, that Controllers certainly shouldn't have Rad. Kinetics real power comes at 38 and received a stupidly powerful boost afterwards via Containment.

They seemed to have learnt the lesson a bit for MMs, except in the blindingly obvious instance of Dark for some weird reason.

I agree with Psy mostly. You don't really need Aid Self or Stimulant but the Hold would be really useful to you.

I'd slot Snow Storm with at least 2 Slows, to floor the scattering effect of Freezing Rain. FR you could drop a Def Debuff slot and put it elsewhere if you were stuck for slots, 2 will be debuffing Def by a fair whack anyway and hitting mobs in PvE usually isn't too hard.

I'd take Short Circut instead of Thunderclap really, never liked the idea of Thunderclap. A mag 1 PBAOE disorientate, it sounds even more pants than Dark Pit. In general AOE mezzes need to be 6 slotted to get full use out of them. Otherwise I wouldn't bother. Short Circuit with 2 acc, 3 End Mod and 1 recharge if you can fit it (and maybe hasten) may be better. Or just Ball Lightning with 2 acc & 3 damage to get your AOE damage up, for synergy with Freezing Rains Resist debuff.

I've found Tornado most useful to Carni as a Mez attack with its Disorientate seeming fairly reliable. I'd slot for that instead of damage. The damage isn't that great as you can't lock the enemy in place to get the best benefit from it, they take one tick of damage and get blown away. Tornado is great fun unleashed in small rooms, with you standing at the doorway with Hurricane on (which, as Psygon says, should be maxed out to debuff accuracy).

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Whatever primary you take, /Dark is the only true secondary.

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If one secondary would be noticeably better than others then the game is flawed.

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Thing is the Devs know Dark is very powerful, its one of the reasons its the only Defender primary Controllers can't get.

What makes it confusing is that the Devs took the other very powerful Defender secondary, Rad, and redesigned it into Poison for MMs. Why didn't they do the same for Dark? Even just switching the AOE heal to a single target click to keep it in line with the other MM sets would have done a fair bit to narrow the gap.

Good for me too.

Where is there by the way? We starting with Lusca?

Weekdays are usually better for me. But I could probably make weekends, provided they aren't Saturday night or anything.

I'd be up for this alright with Carni (L46 Controller). Lots of GMs she's never killed. Quite a few I've never even seen! After 15 months I still haven't even managed to see the Hydra and I only saw Paladin for the 1st time last week moping about looking sad because no-one would play with him.

Or I can use my Fire / Rad (Level 37) for debuff goodness if that'd be better?

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From what I recall with my Kin / Elec you can only regain End from the Single Target attacks, not the AOEs I'm afraid.

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Thunderous Blast is an exception. You do get endurance back from it, although it's not much and doesn't last long.

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But as a Nova it also empties your entire End bar and makes you unable to recover End normally doesn't it? Doesn't sound like its the best End Recovery power there is really : Empties your bar, but theres a chance you'll get a wee bity back from your enemies.

Yep as a Kin secondary I'd go for both a travel power and Stamina and consider speccing them out at 28 and 35 respectively.

Getting to 28 with just Siphon Speed is annoying.

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And I would've gotten away with it if it weren’t for you meddling kids....

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*shakes fist*
Damn you Vorderman. I'll get you next time!!

On Topic (yeah I know. Gotta be done) does anyone have the link to the %s for other ATs. So the %s a Mastermind has compared to a Defender, and a corrupter?

I'm really surprised a Controller has 88% of a Defenders heal effectiveness. Seems way too high to me.

If I say yes you're just going to be lewd at me aren't you. There'll probably be a bewbies comment thrown in too

So nope. Just bog standard computer nerd.

I reckon Dr Rock is Vorderman though. Khainestar and Unthing are my other suspects. It's all a bit like Scooby Doo really.

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Actually, in the case of Fortitude it´s 80% of defender´s values for ToHit and Damage and 75% for defense.
Which results in a buff of 24% Damage and ToHit and 22.5% defense.

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Aye, I was more or less guessing it. Knew it was between 75 & 80.

Great link by the way. Was going mad trying to find that info

Thats incorrect, its 75% I think, Could be 80.

And even that is incorrect. Each AT has different effectiveness %s for different power types. For example a Controller TAs Ice Arrow is better than a defenders as Controllers are better at control powers. But for buffs / debuffs they are worse.

For Fortitude its a buff, so around 75% of 30%

Which is (30 / 100 * 75) = 22.5.

30% of 30% is 9%, as an aside. Just always divide by 100 and multiply by the percent.

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the only "fear" being removed that i have EVER heard about so far was when (in a redname post) it was said that the fear/repel in burn was being looked at. other than that i havent heard squat, but then again, i just found out i've missed the posts about that bundle thingy so i might have missed a "removing fear" post thingy as well

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To avoid confusion I always call that the Scatter effect.

I guess the OP could be talking about that in relation to a Blaster Fire secondaries Fire Cages (for the -fly) and Burn (for Scatter / "fear").

Removing that from Burn is anti-DOOOOOM though surely? The Fire Tanks will be dancing in the streets if thats the case (which it probably isn't without some citations to back it up).

Whats the opposite of DOOOOOOOOOM?

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I can see them replacing it with hold. A few times in game people I have teamed with have said fear will be dropped from fire in time. My opinion is that hold will replace it throughout the game.

-fly dosent make sense to me most controler types are very very similar only illusion is very different. Diversity is going out the window.

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Erm, Fire Control doesn't have any fear powers though. Do you mean the Stun of Flashfire?

Them adding -fly to Cages does seem a little odd too, fire does extra damage over the other immobs so I don't why they're buffing this. Great news for my Fire/Rad though. Flyers were his weakness (damned Cabal).

Congrats folks. Nice place to do it too, over the steaming corpse of recluse.

Does a Necro / Dark really need Haste? Or 2 Travel powers? Shadow Fall is taken very late too, I love it as a power, mainly for the AOE stealth it provides at the mo.

I'd also take Howling Twilight as a minion control & boss debuff I reckon (and because I love the animation).

Can Zombies take Dmg Resist enhances and what sort of effect do they have? Just wondering if theres a way to toughen the little guys up a bit directly.

From what I recall with my Kin / Elec you can only regain End from the Single Target attacks, not the AOEs I'm afraid.

So Short Circuit isn't going to act like a Consume-lite as far as I'm aware.

I found my End starting to falter in the mid-teens with my Kin/Elec. But TA is supposed to be very End-lite so you might get away with slotting some End Red in your attacks. Without them I could see you having a few issues in the 20s onwards, especially in fast moving teams without a End buffer.

The only issue with Illusion / Kin is that the Phantam Army cannot be buffed in any way. So you can't boost their damage directly. Other sets like Rad & TA let you lower enemy resistance though, which means the PAs will do more damage against them.

Dark Blast isn't the most damaging but the -acc is does as secondary is great and theres good control from it. But as for whether it'll outdamage a Illusion / Kin I don't know. An Illusion / Kin would certainly be better at soloing.

I'm currently going for a staminaless Necro / Dark build. So far its easy enough to do I find, I spend my time Fearing, Tarring and debuffing as well as directing the meatbags and its all good. Occasionally a blue needs to be consumed but I rarely run out of Stamina. I do have the toggles slotted with 1 End Red each so that helps & I don't attack myself.

Currently 26, I reckon the 40s could be a struggle with the PPPs & no Stamina...

I didn't mention Kin for a starting controller because they'd have so much to do in combat with it. Also the Kin travel options you get aren't for the faint hearted, especially Siphon Speed starting in Steel / Skyway.

Kinetics is a massive amount of fun alright though, I agree. But for a first toon I'd pick something a little less loopy and go for a Kinetics defender as an alt maybe.

Illusion is a good choice for a first timer. Theres no AOE immobs to get you overaggroed and killed, you get a hold and an attack power so you can solo your low level missions plus you can get an invis (you've a choice of them) which'll be handy for getting around town and getting you used to the layouts of the zones.

The Phantam Army you get at level 18 is very good indeed and gives you serious firepower.

To go with it Rad, Storm and Trick Arrow all let you debuff the enemy strongly. In the 20s, when I find you can start playing with the strong secondary powers, you can just drop Phantam Army, a spectral terror and then start focusing on debuffing your enemies as much as possible.

I went Storm with my second ever char and shes my favourite. Storm can be tricky to play correctly, you have to make sure you don't scatter your enemies all over the place or interfer with your team-mates.

A Buff set, like Empathy, FF or sonics might be useful. Empathy works well with illusion, you can drop PAs & Spec Terror and then just focus on buffing & healing your teammates while the PAs & spec terror keep working away.

*Edit : If you do go Illusion make sure you have Blind, Deceive & Spectral Wounds. Makes the early game much easier. Just Deceive one in-mission enemy and Blind & Wound his mate. With Deceive you'll learn a lot about which enemies are more powerful or have special abilities too.

Yay, grats Blue. You've been stuck with me as a teamie a few times so you really do deserve it.

Rad / NRG is going to be really annoying due to the anchors & knockback. I wouldn't go near it.

Elec is good for End Draining but End drain is a very difficult control, if they have a smidgeon of End they can attack. I'd only rely on it coupled with other powers that End drain (Kinetics really).

Sonic sounds like a good partner for Rad with Enverating Field, or especially for TA. Ta / Sonic is a damage resist debuffing monster.

It affects both End drain & recovery for this power.

The recovery is pretty decent unslotted anyway though,

I dumped it for Steamy Mist, GI is just too vague for my tastes now.

Cryptic by name, cryptic by nature...