BrandX
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Well, it's nice to see there are at least a few attacks that benefit from using Placate before hand.
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Quote:I have a couple of Brutes at 50, admittedly I have more more Scrappers. But while the 5% reduction to Resist Cap would hurt all of 2 Brutes (FA and ELA) it wouldn't have been that big of a deal. And I think the ones against it where blowing it out of proportion.Originally Posted by Dispari
Speaking as a Brute player whose main character for farming is a Brute, I'm still in favor of it. It depends on when players and devs are willing to admit that Brutes can do too many things at once, or are too good at too many things at once.
Also, in beta I think the real problem was that for some reason Castle felt he had to increase Brute base RES in order to decrease their RES cap. For one, that led to an overall buff to the Brute AT which was a bad idea, and two, it unfairly targeted some Brute sets and not others. Though there are still people who will not accept a nerf of any kind no matter what, and I know some of those people spoke up.
I also didn't think they needed the Resist Buff added in. Unless it's proven their damage is really that much lower than a Scrappers (so far it's looked almost even for the most part with a few exceptions between them).
Personally I would of done that, and increased the Stalker damage mod at the time. It'd also give people more of a reason to prefere Tankers over Brutes (just a little more survivalable).
Yes it would of upset people, but I think most of them would od realized it wasn't that big of an effect on them, or already knew it wouldnt be, but wanted to stop it from happening. -
Quote:I think the idea of lowering the Brutes Resist Cap to 85 and rasing Scrappers to 80, and then upping Stalkers damage is a great idea by keeping them at the 75% mark.Originally Posted by Dispari
That's an issue I've raised countless times. In theory it should work like this:
Best to worst Defense:
1) Tanker
2) Brute
3) Scrapper
4) Stalker
Best to worst Damage:
1) Stalker
2) Scrapper
3) Brute
4) Tanker
Unfortunately, it actually works like this:
Best to worst Defense:
1) Tanker
2) Brute
3) Scrapper
4) Stalker
Best to worst Damage:
1) Scrapper/Brute
2) Stalker
3) Tanker
Brutes do a ton of stuff for their role. Not only do they get more HP (which means more health per regen and more health from heals), but a higher RES cap, and still pretty much do comparable damage to Scrappers.
Stalkers, despite being the easiest to kill, are largely considered to do less damage than the leading two ATs. And Tankers, while technically existing in the correct order, are essentially made unnecessary simply because Brutes exist.
There are tons of ways to approach the situation and plenty of room for error. Personally if it was my job to balance the ATs I'd start by making Stalkers have 1.125 damage scale and their BU doing 100%. Yes, they'd do more damage than Scrappers at all times. Which in my opinion they should, considering they're easier to kill. Some other options I've thought of would include nerfing Brute RES caps (personally I feel the RES caps should be 90%, 85%, 80%, 75% for the ATs respectively, following the defensive list), buffing other AT HP caps (and probably nerfing Brutes' HP cap since they're the only non-epic AT with a cap more than twice their starting HP). Other people have tossed around other ideas like making Hide and/or AS inherent and restoring some lost Stalker powers.
So there are a lot of ways to approach it. It just depends on what the devs' eventual goal for Stalkers even is. And it's also best to take it one small change at a time, since overcompensating and later nerfing usually makes for unhappy players.
Saddly, lowering the Brutes Resist Cap didn't go over well with many players during the GR Beta testing. -
Quote:No idea when it will be ported, though I hope for i22! Doesnt matter if they don't port to every AT, I want my TW/NIN combo, and if they won't give Stalkers TW, they need to give Scrappers /NINOriginally Posted by _SPYDER_
When are scrappers getting ninjitsu?
And if they get ninjitsu, what would replace hide?
Ok. That was two questions.... I lied.
As for what will replace hide? A stealth power of course. It's the only thing that makes sense.
But yes, something would need to replace Caltrops, as Caltrops is in the Weapon Mastery Pool.
My suggestion...a Phase Shift clone as the tier 8. -
Placate + Assassin Strike as it is currently is still one of the best DPS options to a Stalker.
Unslotted that's 82.55 DPS (using Energy Melee's AS as a basis).
MA best attack for DPS is Storm Kick at 76.46 DPS with Eagle's Claw coming in at 64.43, CK/CS coming in at 64.88 and CAK coming in at 70.18.
Crushing Impact attack for DPS is 81.86 (no combo), 85.6 (lvl 1), 90.78 (lvl 2), 100.46 (lvl 3)
Energy Transfere is 87.32
Smite is 67.97 while Midnight Grasp is 75.22
So generally, Placate + Assassin Strike has always been AWESOME for DPS.
The problem with Placate + Assassin Strike has always been (in my experience)...
1) Teaming. Just not enough time to use it. Never has been in my experience, even before the first changes. If it wasn't herd and AOE it's been steamroll with AOE. Only on a ST focused team, has Placate + Assassin Strike been worth it.
I've been on a ST focused team, it's a rarity in my experience.
2) Solo vs AVs. In my experience with AV soloing my KM/WP has been Placate + Assassin Strike had a tendency to have hide seen through, Placate interrupted right as you hit it, Placate ignored, or some last ditch attack of some sort would interrupt Assassin Strike during it's animation.
This is with using a softcapped to S/L/E/N KM/WP Stalker.
This also doesn't include how using Placate + Assassin Strike can be ruined by a bit of movement.
Now, I don't consider myself some top of the line player, but I am a player who likes to do such things as Solo AVs.
I am a player who tends to team (I TF a lot) and even if I didn't, the end game is about a lot of teaming.
Now, I'm not saying have Assassin Strike in the hidden state lose to AS in the unhidden state in terms of DPS, but if they did make it that way, I would say that yes, it is still themetic to Stalkers.
You're using an attack on the enemy for the best damage to get the fight over with ASAP which is themetic to Stalkers imo.
Of course, that theme pretty much goes for how everyone plays
What I like the idea of with this change, is Stalkers having an attack that changes up their best DPS chains for the better with an attack that does such awesome DPS, that Assassin Strike will be to Stalkers what Gloom is to non weapon set Brutes.
Stalkers will have a reason to always throw in Assassin Strike into their DPS attacks.
I like the idea of opening with AS (which would be 127.27 DPS attack) for the burst/best DPS, and then slugging it out while still being able to make use of AS versus what Stalkers have to go through now.
One thing to possibly do to help the Placate + Assassin Strike option is to lower Placate's animation time.
A 1 second animation time on Placate would up the DPS damage of Placate + Assassin Strike to 92.56 (unslotted) a change of 10 whole DPS and makes Placate + Assassin Strike the best DPS option to a Stalker, lowers the chance of the combo being ruined, and likely beats out Assassin Strike from an unhidden state in DPS with the changes as I don't think unhidden state AS will be over 92.56 in DPS. -
Quote:I'd rather lose Thunder Kick for MAOriginally Posted by Death_Adder
I'd really like to see MA lose Crane Kick and EM lose Stun to put Dragons Tail and Whirling Hands back in. There is really no reason for these sets to have no aoe at all.
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Quote:I'm curious as to why you think MMs need a design pass when they're considered one of the strongest ATs.Originally Posted by newchemicals
That's pretty close to my feelings.
1. PBs
2. Stalkers
I have masterminds and dominators as 3 and 4 but Blasters are 5. If fact, when the stalker changes go through, blasters will probably end up on my bottom 4 list. Blasters simply get weaker as the player levels since their biggest debuff (dead mobs) keep getting tougher and doing more mez. -
Quote:I know I still havent bought Beam Rifle!Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Well since Freedom came out we have six new sets announced/released:
Beam Rifle: Pay only
Time Manipulation: Free for VIPs
Street Justice: Pay only
Titan Weapons: Pay only
Darkness Control: Free for VIPs
Staff Fighting: Pay only
So yes melee characters are getting more sets than other ATs but they are having to pay for all of them. Except for Beam Rifle the non-melee sets have been free for VIPs. Honestly this doesn't surprise me, melee characters are by far the most popular so giving them lots of pay-to-play powersets is a good move in terms of income.
As for Dominators losing out, sure they didn't get any proliferation in I21 but they are one of only two ATs to get proliferation in I22 (Dark Assault is considered a proliferation apparently). So freedom launch through I22 Dominators are coming out ok. They are tied with MMs with two new/proliferated sets and only one set behind Stalkers and Blasters who each have three new/proliferated sets. Sure it would be nice to see more Dominator sets but it would be nice to see new sets of every type. I don't particularly begrudge the devs for making lots of new melee sets, I'm not interested in them but I'm sure they sell a lot better than other set types.
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Quote:I don't know if every other AT needs attention myself. At least in how the AT operates. This doesn't mean individual sets within the ATs dont.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Dominators got a design pass not that long ago; among other things their damage was increased substantially to make them offensively balanced archetypes. I could argue that the archetype that is most in need of a balance pass is Blasters. Blasters have been waiting for a secondary powerset design pass for longer than Dominators have existed. In fact, Dominators and Scrappers have a higher melee damage modifier than Blasters do, which is nonsensical.
If I had to rank which archetypes deserved the most attention overall, the list would be:
Peacebringers
Blasters
Stalkers
Everybody else.
The only reason I put PBs ahead of Blasters is just because the disparity between PBs and WSs is ludicrous, and because I don't think Kheldians get enough special benefits for being quantum-bait.
Tankers may not be everyone's cup of tea, but personally they seemed balanced for what they are. Same goes for most of the ATs.
I could possibly see people not seeing Defenders as balanced against Corrs, since a lot of their debuffs seem to be the same between the ATs.
But they're still pretty balanced as an AT. -
Quote:The relative lack of AOE isn't equal for all sets.Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
I think Stalkers should be all about "Get rid of That Guy!" and secondarily about "I am in no danger, because you are not even attacking me."
To that end: Hard and soft controls delivered at melee range. Debuffs to a melee target's Resistance and Defense. DoTs.
Let them do damage equal to Blasters/Brutes/Scrappers, but outdo them on controls and debuffs, even and especially when it comes to hard targets such as bosses and above.
Solo, they should excel against small spawns.
On small teams, they take on an almost tankeresque role, but less meatshield, more control,.
On large teams, they are debuffers vs hard targets.
The balance comes back in with their relative squishiness and relative lack of AoE.
...and now we are in full Tangent Mode.
KM lost a tageted range cone that I personally dont see many use and it's pretty much told to be skipped by people ont he forums.
ELM lost an AOE Stun power.
StJ lost no AOE.
Dual Blades lost the PBAOE attack that many say is weaker and from a damage standpoint tend to say pick 1K Cuts over Typhoon's Edge.
Spines lost it's damage aura, which is nice to have and would add in a bit more damage, but they kept it's other 3 AOEs.
Admittedlly I'd have prefere to have the PBAOE in certain sets over some of the ST attacks that I always skip, but the relative lack of AOE seems to be more of "I picked the set without AOE" over actual "relative lack of AOE" -
Hmmm...
I've gone many times to Dark Astoria for various reasons, TFs, Badge Hunting, RPing, and one thing always seems to be the same...
It's very very quiet.
I see nothing wrong with making the zone co-op. And for those complaining about co-op, I have to ask why? They're making both villain and hero content there. That means you can do villain or hero only content, joining up with the opposite side is purely a choice and one you can say no to.
Hell, with this news, I think the only thing that could make it any better was if the suggestion for flagging yourself for PvP duels could be made in effect for this zone (and then other co-op zones) so we can see heroes and villains battling it out on the streets of DA!
Yes, I know people don't care for PvP, that's why I said FLAG yourself. You hit a switch, it says you're open for invites to duel and it leaves it at that untill someone sends a request to duel.
We limit it to only red vs blue and only to duels. If you don't want to PvP you just don't flag yourself for it.
[EDIT] Oh and again...rethink losin gthe fog! -
Quote:While I find that an interresting idea, I do have a question.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's actually more or less what they were supposed to be from the start as I understand it, so what you're thinking and what I remember from CoV beta seem to be roughly in sync.
But here's the rub: given how at this point recharge is basically the playerbase's prison girlfriend at this point, do you believe its possible to give anything, stalker or otherwise, better burst without simultaneously giving them better sustained damage without using stronger mechanical trickery than what we're using now for stalkers?
Also, allowing assassin's strike better usage out of hide is much more of a sustained damage buff than a burst damage buff. That's fine, but does that mean you're at least roughly happy with the burst damage of stalkers at this point and are now looking to smooth over the rough spots elsewhere, or there's still more burst damage refinement coming in the future?
When I think burst damage, particularly burst damage as a form of mitigation, I think this: if A and B can both kill ten targets in sixty seconds, but while A kills one target every six seconds B kills the first five in 10 seconds and the last five in 50 seconds, B has a burst advantage but no offensive advantage. They both kill at the same speed overall, but B ends up taking a lot less damage than A. The tools I'm seeing aren't frontloading tools that compensate for lower mitigation, they are looking more like straight up offensive buffs.
I have often wondered if the best way to give stalkers better burst is to simply give them reverse fury. They start at maximum, and as they attack it decays. So at the start of the fight they have maximum damage, but the longer the fight lasts the lower their damage becomes. When the fight ends, they recover that advantage. By being less "binary" you get more of the feel of "building it up" and then "using" the burst advantage. Its like a frontload meter you spend by attacking.
And to make sure it doesn't get ludicrously high for soloers but is high enough when in teams, just make the fury meter scale a scaling buff like against all odds. So a stalker that enters a three minion group with full meter gets like a +50% damage buff to start, while a stalker that enters a twelve minion group with full meter gets like a +150% damage buff to start. As they attack, the meter drops from 1.0 to 0.0, dropping the buff accordingly. When they aren't attacking, the meter rises again. You could even make things like Placate add points to the meter (it doesn't have to reset to full, it could add 0.5 to the meter, or whatever). How fast the meter decays would determine how focused the frontloaded burst damage buff would be.
That to me sounds like a burst damage tool, and it wouldn't be difficult to add in theory, although it would take some time. The question is is it a reasonable request given the intended target for stalkers?
Wouldn't making Assassin's Strike a Superior Damage attack while in the unhidden state with a fast animation attack still be a burst damage option while still increasing their DPS? -
Quote:The lower hit points is what makes them weaker. Of course with the right set, this becomes less of a problem when built with IOs in mind. But then, Blasters have this benefit as well.Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
I've been considering an idea... and was wonder what you might think of it. This game, to my knowledge, doesn't have a Piercing damage type (IE, it ignores a certain percentage of defense). Perhaps this is something Stalkers (and maybe sniper attacks) could make use of?
I completely agree. For me, Hide should be their main form of survivability. Placate should be an AoE and their regular armors should really only be good enough for them to survive until placate recharges. This is, of course, with PvE in mind. Stalkers have always been somewhat of a questionmark for me when it comes to PvP.
The increase in max HP cap will only help a few sets out when it comes to Stalkers...Ice Armor, Regeneration and WP.
All other sets are likely to hit just under 1700 hit points if they have all the +HP Accolades and squeeze in as many +HP bonuses as they can without gimping their build, basically they won't have a bunch of easily obtainable bonuses go to complete waist. -
Quote:You know that may be the real benefit. Make 1 AOE (preferably an PBAOE one imo) per set a 100% crit to go along with placate.Originally Posted by Zem
I don't think Placate needs anything. It will still be useful defensively and to follow-up with an AoE for the 50% crit (or 100% for the lucky few). I don't really get the nostalgia for Placate+AS, honestly. What's so great about it? Even on my soft-capped Stalker it was unreliable enough to be annoying. There are simply some AV fights where it is impossible to use thanks to damage auras. I'm looking forward to being the top ST DPS contributor on those fights, if it works out that way. Looking forward to it very much.
Won't help a few sets that are ST focused, but over all, it would be a nice improvement. -
Quote:I think that's part of my problem with Placate. To many ways to keep the END coming in.Originally Posted by Jibikao
I just think there's too many -resist in the game already. Tanker got one too and Focus will make Assassin Strike a very good attack.
I just want Placate to do something different other than providing more damage through +damage buff or -resist.
Oh well. We'll see. I don't think the dev would do anything about Placate but it's fun to come up ideas. And I know that I always run out of endurance during long fights unless I have several sets. The +endurance is for situation where killing one target isn't as beneficial as prolonging your ability to continue the fight. -
Quote:Or both!Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Heck, I don't even need Midnight Grasp. Gimme Siphon Life, and I'll be a happy camper. Or the Blaster version of Life Drain. Either one.
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Want to chime in and agree not to lose DA's fog!
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Quote:As long as they get Gloom.Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
If I can have Siphon Life and Midnight Grasp...
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Quote:Dom's and Trollers have no Darkness themed sets. There you have the expansion conceptually.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
The new set sounds nice, but if they are going to expend the resources for new animations I'd have preferred something new conceptually and not another rehash of an element/power source already extensively fleshed out.
Anything else they add is likely going to be just more refined themes on existing power sets that you can do already.
Kinetic Melee could of easy been replicated with Energy Melee.
Darkness Control will not only give Trolls/Doms a Primary for more darkity concept, but it might just be nice for them to have a Primary that offers some -ToHit. -
Quote:Hmmm...unique to their AT? You mean like the most popular AT?Originally Posted by Airhammer
Pretty much everything that Doms has had has been a port. Since its inception all they made for doms that was unique was the Plant Primary and that was ported over to Controllers. Thorny Assault was a version of Spines. That was from issue 8 I believe. It wasnt until Issue 18 that they got Electric and Earth Control if my memory serves correct was ported over with Earth Assault as a new set.
Melee toons have gotten Street Justice and are getting Titan Weapons shortly and Staff Melee next year and some AT's have gotten several round of Proliferation.
Blasters got Dark Blast and Dark Manipulation as well as Beam Weapon.
Dominators havent gotten anything since Issue 18 and already lagged behind ALL other AT's with total number of choices in the first place.
This is why I hope Doms get something more. They have gotten less repeatedly over time than other AT's. I would like to see they get something that is unique to their AT.
Scrappers have nothing unqiue, and everything that was unqiue about them got ported away.
Powersets, inherent power, criticals (and some would say the other AT does better with crits).
I don't know, I think they should just make what they know works, and I think that's what's happening.
Dominators aren't (imo anyways) in need of anything. I think this way about Brutes, Tankers, Corruptors, MMs, ect.
In fact, other than Kheldians and Stalkers, I don't think any of the other ATs are need of any real tweaking. Some of the sets in all ATs sure. -
Quote:I prefere the idea of -Resist to the target of the placate as a way of trying to find their weakpoints.Originally Posted by Jibikao
Personally, I don't like using Placate + AS especially when I am on a team. I know I won't do Placate + AS on my Kin/Dark (aura will interrupt) and on my SJ/Ice (CE won't interrupt but I won't get back to hidden either).
I have to de-toggle first and then Placate + AS. What a pain.
On a large or full team, Placate + AS is just so slow. By the time you hit Placate for 1.6s and then hit (and hopefully nobody interrupts you on a full team), you already spend more than 5s on just one target. I really dislike Placate + AS.
However!!!
I kept thinking how can we make Placate more "offensive". Well, one way is to add -resistance or -defense (like the aggroless Surveillance) like some of you have suggested.
Another one I can think of is to add +endurance or +recovery. I mostly don't use Placate unless I am fighting something hard or I have a good aoe attack. In the situation against an AV, if you don't have sets or if you don't have people fueling you +endurance, you are most likely going to run out of endurance before the AV dies. In that situation, I may just use 3 x Focus + Placate to fuel my endurance so I can prolong the fight.
I kinda like LEO's suggestion for the 3 uses of Focus on Assassin Strike. We can use the same thing on Focus on Placate.
One Focus + Placate = +15 Endurance
Two Focus + Placate = +20 Endurance + 5% Tohit buff for 10s
Three Focus + Placate = +25 Endurance + 10% Tohit buff for 10s
(Why tohit buff? Because nothing is worse than missing after Placate! You blind the target and yet you miss him??)
I am not a number guy but the idea is to turn Placate into more useful in prolong fight where endurance matters. Now by the time you are an incarnate, endurance may not be an issue (which is the case for a lot of ATs, not just Stalkers), but that's because most already bought sets to reduce endurance. I know my lower level Stalkers would LOVE to have a way to increase endurance. Remember, not every fight needs to be finished with Placate + AS. If there is just one trash enemy left, why waste the endurance? If Placate can give me back some endurance, I will definitely hit 3 x Focus + Placate so I have enough endurance for the next fight. :P Again, the choice is yours. You can choose to overkill in style or you can choose to fuel back endurance so the following fights have less delays.
And also, more AoE attacks cost more endurance. If I use Placate to unleash aoe attack, I need to make sure I have the endurance for them.
What do you think? -
Quote:A new free set isn't special? Or isn't special because it's not one of twnety new sets? Or because they're giving it to Trollers as well?Originally Posted by Airhammer
Im sorry is there a second set im not aware of that has been announced ??
And the devs themselves said they have something SPECIAL planned for Dominators coming up but havent said what that something SPECIAL is yet...
For me Special doesnt imply getting something that everyone else has.. For me it implys something unigue and or different... maybe thats just me...
Dark Assault I have no idea on. Maybe it's just ported Dark Blast/Melee powers, maybe it's not, maybe it's a combo? But that is a second powerset.
And outside of Illusion which they're not willing to do yet (or at all, though I dont recall hearing a dev ever say that), Dominators have every possible set that can be ported to them. So, if they got it ILL/ ont he last round, would you have complained onthe next round that DOM's got nothing? -
Quote:They're getting TWO new sets in i22 that are FREE to ViPs (no idea on Freebies and Premiums) and that's not enough? The other sets were proliferations.Originally Posted by Airhammer
Im hoping that this isnt all you have planned for Dominators going forward because one measly set still doesnt make up for the fact they didnt get jack last issue and have the fewest number of playable choices in AT's that have choices.
Stalkers have needed love for some time and finally they are getting it ( I dont play stalkers but recognize the need for improvement of the AT ).
Doms have been getting the shaft for a while now.
And what do you do when another AT has run out of other power sets to be proliferated? Complain they didn't get a proliferated set when there's none ot be proliferated?
Not ot mention it seems to have some new graphics involved and not all are retreads of exsisting powers. -
Quote:The one thing I disagree with.Originally Posted by Pyro_Beetle
(because of the failure on the devs part to give EA a min FX graphic) It's not the devs failure. It's that EA is an elemental set, so it doesnt give a min FX option like Regen, WP, INV, NIN and SR which are more natural themed sets.
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Quote:Ooooh...if that's the case...it could be a nice way to help make up for it lowering DPS. Could even have it not except sets so people can't add procs to it by accident.Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Bane Spider Surveillance do -res and -def and not cause aggro or drop you out of hide? Pretty sure it only aggros if you have an achilles heel proc in it.
Right now, I love the changes they have planned, and I don't think the increase in max HP will make a change to any stalkers but the few with +HP powers in terms of added survivability (I dont recall it being easy to max a /SR Stalkers HP). So I don't see this as overpowering in just giving more ways for more damage.
And it keeps it in line with the current changes in that it's more damage without actually upping the damage mod.