Blue_Mourning

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Rooted:
*Remove -speed
*Keep -jump, -fly but allow combat jump and hover to be used, they just will grant defense.

Granite:
*Make it auto de-toggle after 120 seconds.
*Increase the recharge to 320 seconds (enhanceable down, due to how toggles work it will never perma)

Mud Pots:
*Reduce endurance cost to 1.04

There is more balancing I would do to alleviate the excessive fragmentation the set suffers now, but that I would have to sit down to actually toss ideas out on.

As for cosmetics: I would make the full armor set scale with body as weapons do. Huge characters and tiny characters look extremely different due to how the thing does not scales from body to body.

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I am absolutely against this. As it is, Stone armor is an armor set like no other, and I like that. There's WP and Shield both of whom have a very passive feel to them outside of the click T9. There's the others which have a great deal more activity, and then there's Stone.

First of all, I really like having the option of running in with Granite and not being on top of your offensive game, or running in without and cutting loose (well, as much as a stoner can cut loose...) As it is, it plays nothing like any other armor set. As suggested it's a lot more homogenous, and I wouldn't enjoy that. I can't talk for anyone else but I would imagine a lot of other people feel the same way.

I completely disagree though. Stone Armor is powerful, yes, and harder to tank with than other primaries up to level 32, but Granite is such a game changer that it feels like nothing else in this game in terms of sheer toughness, which is a very nice feeling the first time through. Granted it's been a very long time since I've tried to run a stoner without a massive number of IO's, but I leveled my stoner from 1 - 50 without farming (well, without much, it's possible that I leveled her from 46 - 47 on one farm and got bored, but whatever) and the majority of the time without IO's. I learned a LOT from 1 - 32 in terms of what enemies are dangerous and for what reason, so that wehn I hit 32 I knew more about the game than I would have otherwise. Is a stoner hard pre 32? Yes. Is it still tougher than a lot of of things in this game? Yes. If worst comes to worst you can always respec at 32 into a granite build - there's a handy respec trial right at that level.
Is granite powerful? Yes. Is it too powerful? I don' tthink so. And I don't really think that anything needs to be changed. WIth IOs you can change a lot. I just don't see why granite needs to be changed. Aesthetically, perhaps. But not numbers wise. and numbers wise poeple really haven't given a good reason other than "I don't like how powerful it is".
The problem with granite is people either see the benefits without seeing the downside or vice versa.

Also Vicar, after running a stoner for the better part of two years, I'm going to have to completely disagree about the runspeed thing. I run granite a lot without rooted, even with a kin on the team. Granite + rooted is really over kill on a lot of the content and it would be extremely frustrating for me to have to go at a snails pace even without the benefit of rooted. I liek that rooted has penalties. It makes the game and the powerset dynamic and makes you make choices at a lower level. The runspeed is annoying, but I don't think the answer is to shift the runspeed problems from the low level game to an insurmountable one in the high level one.

I actually agree with Reiraku. There's something to be said while teaming for specialization. Yeah, the hybridization of this game makes it interesting, but Scrappers are in a place where they don't benefit as much from buffs as other ATs, and provide less damage than blasters. So if you have a tank, why add a scrapper when you can add a blaster for more damage?

Luckly for me I don't make up my teams like that. Luckily for me I haven't run into anyone in the game who actually does....

Here's my problem with the tanks need more damage debate (and I'm not saying whether or not I feel tanks need anything or not). Say it's true; say tanks are absolutely useless comparatively to Brutes with buffs and they're completely uneccessary. Then why is it that people who are quite knowledgable about this game, and who have been on teams with uber buffs and what not, still want me to bring my stone tank. Still want me to bring my stone tank over my other tanks who do a lot more damage (although my stoner is still quite decent int hat department) but have a lot less survivability?
I think tanks will always be played, because the mentality it brings is one that is most team oriented of any of the melee archetypes. If anything I would like to see tanks bring a little bit more of defense force multiplying, but they don't really need it, not enough for me to argue for it. And when I'm fighting on my tanks I'm not comparing what my brutes can do in a similar situation, or my scrappers for that matter. it's a different playstyle. I'm concerned with how I'm tanking, and my teammates appreciate it.

These problesm might exist in the high end game. I wouldn't be surprised if they do. But they certainly don't exist in the pug game or the low to mid end game. If you're gunning for a 30 minute ITF I woudln't bring my stoner - or maybe I would considering my tanking skills make the end AV's that much easier and another rad isn't going to amke them fall that much faster, but someone who can pull the healer from Rom would, and I have yet to see a brute ablet o do that without a lot of buffing. Even the sotners tend to complain (and seriously? Wow. Even at base numbers brute granite isn't anything to laugh at).

Anyway, I don't see brutes replacing tankers any time soon.

That would "penalize" a tanker managing aggro, something that a lot tankers aren't currently doing anyway (to my annoyance). I don't think it's a real penalization, but people would chose to see it that way and some would probably turn of their taunt aura - especially if they're not inv. or wp or sd.
It's wacky and it's off book, but I don't really see it working.

There are no shades of gray. No one complains about Kins who SB some of the time. Hell, i don't even complain about kins that don't SB that don't HAVE SB. I do, however, think that if you have SB, and have joined a team, whether yo'ure a controller or not, you should try to SB some of the time. I'm not saying turn yourself into a buff bot. I'm not saying babysit your teams blue bars. I'm saying every third, or fourth or fifth mob take a moment and SB the team.

You have a tool to make the team better. It's sitting in your tray. It's not even about min/maxing. It's about what you're doing to make the team better. Yeah, you're right, you're doing other things too, and I appreciate that. But if you ahve the tool, and you're not using it and I ask for it and the person says "lol, you should have built for +recharge and +recovery" at level 24, that person gets kicked.

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And as soon as you can show (from my post points that you ignored) why sb is NEEDED and not just wanted to maximize xp/drop/inf rates and why you believe powergamers are some sort of be all end all of playstyles everyone should adhere to I will be happy to take on your points. "

Until then its simply you saying "This is what I want to happen and everyone should just do it because everyone should always want to play in the maner and style I like best."

You keep saying what I say is pointless and its not. Its pointless to you because it doesnt support your views, your not able to refute any of it because you would come off as a control freak demanding everyone play in the most efficient manner simply because you want it that way.

So instead you ignore the valid points and skip reading them because you would have no other choice but to admit SB is not required for success in CoH.

And the reason nobody ever spams "GLUE ARROW PLZ" is because its not a buff, and alot of people in game feel entitled to be buffed at all times, they feel alot of powersets sole reason for existance is to make them better at whatever they do. And if you want to talk about bad team attitudes expecting, much less demanding any player in this game to dedicate their existance to your fun is as bad as it gets.

I'm sorry my posts are long I know reading and comprehension is hard but your not entitled to argue about points you havent read or just plain refuse to address because they dont support your narrow view of how others need to play their characters so it best benifits you.

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If there is a buffer on the team who took their buffs and I'm not buffed, there better be a good reason, like the emp ran out of people they could fort, or I wasn't slept so I didn't need CM, or I'm fighting an all psi enemy group so the FF bubbles won't be that useful. Otherwise they're not bringing enough to the team.
It's not just about faster XP/Loot/whatever. That's a stupid argument by the way. If there is someone on the team that can make a mission go faster thereby making it more safe (because an enemy can't attack you when they're dead) or refuses to make you more powerful when THEY took a buff set and you didn't, then they're not deserving of the spot on the team. I even expect scrankers who don't tank taunt, don't have tough, and have a crappy taunt aura (I've seen a lot of bad WP tanks lately) to make the team somewhat safer by at least taking the alpha.
You're the one who decided to take the buff on a buffing AND debuffing powerset (although it's buffs are far more noticable but that might just be my selfish nature talking :P) and decided only to not use all the powers.

TL;DR?
If you have SB use it on the team a coupel of times a mission. If you don't want to SB the team, don't take SB.

Honestly, it's a ridiculous debate. If you don't speed boost occasionally, then I will take the kin that does what you do and on top of that also SB's. It's not hard. I've done so on a fire/kin. Seriously, keybind up, SB the team every third spawn (because it will be three or four spawns until the team needs it again, at least, with all the FS and SB going around everyone will be going at high speed.
I don't see what your problem is with that. If there is a kin that does everything you do, AND also finds the time to SB then, yes they are a better kin than you are Obsidian Force2. And I would prefer them on my team, even on my stone tanker that NEVER asks for SB because I've IO'd myself so I'll never need it.

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I can't help but wonder why this is on the Tanker forum, but anyways...

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Its like a blaster not blasting... why fill a spot with a kin that doesn't sb anyone? I didn't even suggest that the entire team be SB but not SB anyone is lazy. It takes seconds and helps the TEAM tremendously. So give me a break about tanks not helping the team... go be lazy somewhere else.

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Kin offers much more to a team than just Speed Boost. The second most notable being +dmg buffs from Fulcrum Shift and Siphon Power. Kin can also help solve end problems outside of SB with Transference (this helps melee more than ranged characters, granted). Against hard targets like up level bosses or EB/AVs, Kin debuffs (Siphon Speed included since it's unresistible) can substantially drop enemy damage. To top it off, it has a very strong heal - Transfusion (again, more melee centric).

[edit: This isn't even mentioning other secondary effects that Defender powers have, such as Sonic's -res, Rad's def debuffs/stun, etc.]

Do I like Speed Boost? Oh yes. Do I grumble a bit (to myself, or maybe on Vent) when a Kin never uses SB? Yes. Would I kick them from the team if he is actively participating in other ways? No.

I'm forced to ask, do you have a Kin? It's easy, as a recipient, to shake your fist at the Kin, but after playing it for a bit, I can completely understand why a Kin wouldn't want to keep it up. Two minutes is a lot shorter than you'd think. Even if it only takes "a couple seconds" (try around 15s for an 8 man team) you have to do it a lot (15s every 2 minutes is 1/8 of your playtime).


I have a Kin, and yes I try to keep SB on as many people as I can. I think you're being way too sensitive.


(I should know better than to respond to a post like this...)

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To be fair though, I'm not sure the OP was upset that the kins were sometimes not keeping SB up, I think the OP was complaining about kins that NEVER sb, which is, if they have it, in many ways frustrating. Especially in content with heavy end draining. Most notably was when I was on a Sister Psyche and the kin had sb (I actually wouldn't have been upset if they didn't have SB) and wouldn't use it because they felt that the team would use it as a crutch. This was when most of the team was 22 - 25, and before most were well slotted against a load of end draining enemies (freaks). I did kick them (for other reasons too, the guy was a doofus).
I do have a fire/kin. Moreover, I have a farming fire/kin and on teams I somehow manage, among all my other duties to keep SB up on the team. Granted not all the time. There are moments in an AV fight where I'm far too busy spamming everything else to notice when sb drops. But overall it's really not that hard to sb three or four times a misison when you have binds set up for it. And if you don't, sb those who desperately need it.

This is a ridiculous fight. I am against some of the more draconian methods they used to stop it, and though I enjoyed getting a few characters leveled that I probably woudln't have otherwise, I was also aware how bad it could get. if I was getting from 10 - 31 in a night,t here were people who got from 1 - 50 in a night simply because I don't have the patience to do the same map for hours on end and other people do. That is certainly violating the leveling metric that the devs use (and don't pretend you didn't know that they used that). That's completely different from normal everyday farming,w hich while devs don't usually approve of they do deal with.
Couple that with EVERYONE was doing it (an oversimplification, but it was really really hard to find a non-farm team at all on Liberty or Virtue, the 2 places I play) and there were a lot of levels gained really fast and probably to the detriment of the game.
Did posi over react in his response? Yes. He shoudln't have threatened to ban people when they did let these mistakes through into AE. But removing the mistakes and making it so that people can't gain rewards faster than their metric? THat's their prerogative and one that I can understand.

I would totally join this on Liberty! I've been wanting to do this on my main tank for a while, but it's on Liberty, so if you do it there, you could totally expect to see a certain crass, brash, seven foot tanker named Bree the Barricade .

Actually what I've found is that my aggro aura does something like 50 - 60% of the heavy lifting on a stone/Axe tanker, and approximately that much on my fire/SS (it doesn't have taunt, or it would be less than that, Footstomp is pretty nice for aggro management, but it was a lot more before footstomp), for a vareity of reasons. It's the thing that ticks most often to the highest number of foes, and it's the thing that is always on. You have to activate Taunt, you have to activate attacks. If you have your aura running and you assume it hits, then you can taunt foes while slapping another in the face. It's probably a good tankers best tool at holding aggro.
So it's not not not a net loss of just 5%. At least not for my playstyle.

And I don't find a lot of people who say I'm a bad tank...quite the opposite.