BlackSly

For the record, all -Recharge powers MAY cause scatter due to mob AI. It is not part of the power directly, but if a mob has no powers ready to recharge within some time X, it will start to run away (or around), rather than standing still for 5 seconds until it has a recharged power.

This is due largely because Snow Storm is a very strong -Recharge debuff, and will only happen after they have fired off all their recharged powers, and only if they don't have a fast attack cycle. Most competent Defenders will usually defeat, control, or slow the targets down before they actually do scatter.

Which may explain why Ultimo sees that they may sometimes scatter.

I do believe that it can be done. Heat Exhaustion is -500% Regen, and I think an even-con AV will suffer 15% of that, so that's -75% Regen. It's 40 seconds up with 120 recharge, so it can be made perma with high Recharge. It's not the really strong -Regen and -Res that Rad or Cold put out, but it's not inconsequential either.

Damage will be low but steady, with Stone Prison keeping the AV immobilized and setting up Containment, and Fire Blast as the best DPE attack to add more damage. Between those two "blasts" and Stoney's damage, with perma-HE and near perma Melt Armor on the AV, it looks doable.

Defensively, it definitely looks doable. Between the shields and the heals, with perma-HE meaning permanent -50% damage (usually resisted by the AV's resistance to that damage type, but still usually -30% or stronger), you should be able to keep Stoney up indefinitely without even having to spam heals. That's a good thing as you'll need to keep tossing attacks out for more damage, even with Forge on Stoney.

In the end... it has a good combination of solid defense via Stoney, solid though not top-tier -Resist/Regen debuffing, and due to the relatively long durations on the buffs and debuffs, as long as you're not healing too much, you have time to blast to make up for the low-medium damage from the primary.

Here is a sketchpad build I was working on for Mids, you can easily change Ice epic to Fire. Pretty cheap, too, I think:

[color:#48A4FF]Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401[/color]
[color:#48A4FF]http://www.cohplanner.com/[/color]

[color:#B1C9F5]Click this DataLink to open the build![/color]

[color:#B3CAF7]Level 50 Natural Controller[/color]
[color:#48A4FF]Primary Power Set: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Earth Control[/color]
[color:#48A4FF]Secondary Power Set: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Thermal Radiation[/color]
[color:#48A4FF]Power Pool: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Speed[/color]
[color:#48A4FF]Power Pool: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Fitness[/color]
[color:#48A4FF]Power Pool: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Leadership[/color]
[color:#48A4FF]Ancillary Pool: [/color][color:#B3CAF7]Ice Mastery[/color]

[color:#48A4FF]Hero Profile:[/color]
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 1:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Stone Prison[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/EndRdx/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](25)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](25)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](31)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](31)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Thundr-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](34)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 1:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Warmth[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Dct'dW-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Heal[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dct'dW-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Heal/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](7)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dct'dW-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](9)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dct'dW-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Heal/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](9)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dct'dW-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Heal/EndRdx/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](11)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 2:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Fossilize[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]BasGaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Slow%[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:30[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]BasGaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:30[/color](3)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]BasGaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Rchg/Hold[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:30[/color](3)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]BasGaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx/Rchg/Hold[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:30[/color](5)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]G'Wdw-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Hold/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](5)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Lock-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Rchg/Hold[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](7)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 4:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Thermal Shield[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]ResDam[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:30[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]ResDam[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](11)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]ResDam[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](13)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 6:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Quicksand[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#5EAEFF]Empty[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 8:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Cauterize[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Dct'dW-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Heal[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dct'dW-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Heal/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](13)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dct'dW-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](17)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dct'dW-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Heal/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](17)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dct'dW-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Heal/EndRdx/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](19)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 10:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Plasma Shield[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]S'fstPrt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ResDam/Def+[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:30[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]ResDam[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](19)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]ResDam[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](21)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 12:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Stalagmites[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Stpfy-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Stun/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Stpfy-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](34)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Stpfy-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx/Stun[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](36)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Stpfy-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](37)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Stpfy-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Stun/Rng[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](37)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 14:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Hasten[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](15)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](15)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 16:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Super Speed[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#5EAEFF]Empty[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 18:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Earthquake[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Achilles-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ResDeb%[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:20[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]DarkWD-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Slow%[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](21)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]DarkWD-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHitDeb/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](23)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]DarkWD-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:40[/color](23)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]DarkWD-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Rchg/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](31)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](46)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 20:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Hurdle[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#5EAEFF]Empty[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 22:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Health[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Numna-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Regen/Rcvry+[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 24:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Stamina[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]P'Shift-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]End%[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]P'Shift-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndMod/Acc[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](42)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]P'Shift-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndMod[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](43)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]EndMod[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](43)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 26:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Volcanic Gasses[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]BasGaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx/Rchg/Hold[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:30[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]BasGaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:30[/color](27)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]BasGaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:30[/color](27)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]BasGaze-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Rchg/Hold[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:30[/color](29)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Lock-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Rchg/Hold[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:50[/color](29)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 28:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Forge[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 30:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Maneuvers[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]RedFtn-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Def/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]RedFtn-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Def[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](37)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]RedFtn-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](40)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]RedFtn-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Def/EndRdx/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](42)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]RedFtn-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Def/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](46)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 32:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Animate Stone[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]BldM'dt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]BldM'dt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](33)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]BldM'dt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:40[/color](33)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]SvgnRt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]PetResDam[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](33)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]ExRmnt-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]+Res(Pets)[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](34)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]BriL'shp-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](40)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 35:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Heat Exhaustion[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]Acc[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](36)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](36)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](43)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 38:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Melt Armor[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]AnWeak-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]AnWeak-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](39)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]ShldBrk-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/EndRdx/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:30[/color](39)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]ShldBrk-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:30[/color](39)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](40)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 41:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Hibernate[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#8BAFF1]RechRdx[/color][color:#8BAFF1]-I[/color][color:#8BAFF1]:40[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Efficacy-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]EndMod/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](42)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 44:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Ice Blast[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](45)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](45)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](45)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Decim-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/EndRdx/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](46)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 47:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Frost Breath[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]Posi-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Posi-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Acc/Dmg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](48)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Posi-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](48)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Posi-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/Rchg[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](48)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]Posi-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Dmg/Rng[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](50)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 49:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Frozen Armor[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#7AA4EF]RedFtn-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Def/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](A)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]S'dpty-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Def/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](50)[color:#B1C9F5], [/color][color:#7AA4EF]GftotA-[/color][color:#7AA4EF]Def/EndRdx[/color][color:#7AA4EF]:38[/color](50)
[color:#48A4FF]------------[/color]
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 1:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Brawl[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#5EAEFF]Empty[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 1:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Sprint[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#5EAEFF]Empty[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 2:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Rest[/color] [color:#48A4FF]--[/color] [color:#5EAEFF]Empty[/color](A)
[color:#4FA7FF]Level 1:[/color] [color:#B3CAF7]Containment[/color]

To the OP:

You have a problem because Blasters are a High Damage AT, and with low defenses. You are seeing the effects of "unmitigated" low defenses, and your response to their problem is to gravitate to the secondary (and primary) sets that offer the most defense.

Not unreasonable, but let's understand the problem first:
1) Blasters do the most burst damage, especially AE, thus Blasters draw the most aggro at the beginning of a fight.
2) In PUGs, you cannot depend on the Controller, Defender, and/or Tanker to save you. You can hope for it, generally you will get some help, but you cannot depend on it.

Thus, what you're seeing is that you're drawing lots of aggro with high damage, and don't have the defenses to handle it. Now, not even /Dev has high enough defenses to handle it, if you're drawing much AE aggro on large teams. /Traps might, if we ever get it, but not what we have.

So don't look to the secondary for help. Instead, look to your tactics, and let me paraphrase an old MMORGP dictum for CoH:
It is not the Blaster's job to do the first damage on the enemy. It is the Blaster's job to do the last damage on the enemy.

That means, if your AoE salvo does 240 damage, and you open up on minions with 500 HPs... you're going to piss them all off, all will be alive and angry at you (less the few that are aggroed on the Tanker, or Controlled), and you will die. If, instead, you let someone else do 100-200 damage first (usually the rest of the team's AEs won't be that strong unless it has more Blasters), and THEN you fire your AoE salvo, you will finish off the minions, who will already have fired their first shots at someone else, and you're drawing the aggro of corpses.

Remember: wait for the debuffers to throw down their debuffs. -Acc will save you, -Def/-Res will also save you because it means you'll kill more when you fire. Rushing to fire first before mobs are Controlled/Debuffed will actually LOWER your damage in the fight even though it comes earlier. Let the Tank draw aggro, let the others control/debuff. Doesn't take long, you don't have to sit on the sidelines wasting time for 6 seconds... 2-3 seconds is usually enough. That's enough time to fire two single blasts at a minion, which will help raise Defiance for the AE attacks.

Then you deliver your damage, and deliver the kills that you are on the team for. Timed right, a Blaster's damage will be impressive, and the minions will all fall down and you will be relatively safe. When the spawn is reduced to just a boss or two plus LTs, the Controllers have an easy time Holding them, and the Tank has an easy time holding aggro, and you will likewise be safe from the higher-tier mobs, just as you're safe from the dead minions.

Blast in safety, just by waiting a couple of seconds. Timing is everything.

Late comments:

1) Ill/Rad is the best all-around, IMO, as it uses a practically "unbeatable" defensive ploy, while other defense ploys (Immob, Ranged Defense, etc) all have weaknesses. For example, you can depend on Defense but if Ghost Widow hits you with her Hold, it's over, while with perma-PA you have no such worries.
1.1) I know of some Ill/Rads who have done all the AVs. I did Kronos Titan, but that was back in I4 if I recall right, and damage and regeneration have changed since then.

2) Fire/Rad is a great AV soloer, while it has some holes unlike Ill/Rad, when it's facing something that doesn't have an ace, it can usually do the job faster than Ill/Rad.

1-2) /Cold should be about as good as /Rad, give or take a few IO sets for Defense.

3) Earth/Therm (and soon Earth/Cold) is an underrated set, since it can make Stoney able to tank an AV very easily. It is by far the cheapest AV soloing build since it has all the tools in the 30s and doesn't require much in the way of special IOs. It does have a DPS problem, so fights will be slower and there will be some AVs that it can't take. But I do think that it's a bit underrated just because it's a bit slower, the ability to get very good defense VERY easily is a major selling point for a casual soloer.

[ QUOTE ]
Finally, I just want to make a couple comments on device, and not replying to anybody in particular. I think device can be made very fun. For example, gun drone can be made a mastermind-type pet that blasters can send to somewhere and control its attacks. I guess most people will say no, but I think such bot fits the theme of the powerset. And I think it's probably better just to let us time the timed bomb. Rather than automatically detonating after 15 sec, let us decide when to detonate (of coz, the bomb has to be nerfed in some way such that we can't get a cheap nuke, for example make it low accuracy, or make it a debuff bomb rather than damage bomb). This will keep its original flavor but will be more useful in a general situation as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Omega Maneuver is how Time Bomb SHOULD be.

Gun Drone is fine as a pet, the only problem with it is the ridiculous 6 second interruptible summons animation. Drop it to a short uninterruptible wrist phone summons like Force Field Generator, and Gun Drone would be an excellent power.

Those two changes would make Devices clearly excellent.

[ QUOTE ]
I've been hearing various reports on the forums about how AR/traps doesn't have much synergy..but is the set still playable?..I want to use it for concept reasons, but I also want to be able to preform moderately well...am I COMPLETELY gimp here...or just alittle?

[/ QUOTE ]

For soloing? A solid to good combination. Traps is excellent for soloing with a +Def/Status Protection power that affects the Corruptor, that's huge when soloing. It's weak AoE debuffs/controls aren't that much handicap when soloing.

For teaming, AR is excellent due to lots of good AoEs. Traps is not that great, with relatively weak controls, debuffs, and team buffs. It does do a lot of good stuff, with Acid Mortar, PGT, Seeker Drones, and FFG, but most of it is not at impressive buff/debuff values. And the mines aren't useful on teams.

So, soloing, Traps is good and the mines are good. Teaming, AR is good. Overall, you can do fine, but on a team you will be there more for AoE damage than for buffs/debuffs, so take powers and slot appropriately.

1: Propel as a cone KB/Damage power (probably 1/2 to 1/3 current damage depending on cone arc... personally I'm thinking narrow cone, 15-20 degrees).

2: Lift as a 15' radius AoE lift, drop to 1/2 current damage and recharge at 12 sec.

That should be enough. Gravity becomes a KD/KU/KB control set with AoEs, plus AoE damage. It's a better distinguishing characteristic than its current low-AoE control, high-ST damage characteristic.

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Hm. Even with knockdown, I've been hit by bosses. Maybe it's a function of my connection rather than the game mechanics.

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Also could be them aggroing when your attack breaks Stealth or whatever you used to get close, and getting a shot off before they go down. I don't know how they could get a shot off before being hit by an attack that starts out of aggro range like Nemesis Staff unless it misses.

Of course, Power Burst does start within aggro range. But I still think that guaranteed knockdown + Stun to start with, followed by guaranteed Stun, is fine if the resulting guaranteed Stuns aren't strong enough to perma-Stun a boss, but too strong if it can perma-Stun the boss.

This is still quite useful as you start with this, Stun the boss for 6 seconds, which allows you to stack your Hold on him. Or to mez the LT next to him, or something.

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There's not much else that, without enhancement, can just start hitting a +2 boss, and guarantee pretty much no return fire from the boss.

[/ QUOTE ]After an initial volley. Not irrelevant. But still.

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I don't think so. Open up with Power Burst for guaranteed knockdown, then hit them with any Mag 2 Stun while they're getting up. No alpha if both powers hit.

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Using this against even-cons I think you could keep one elite boss stunned, keep two bosses on their back or stunned

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That's why. Two bosses permanently controlled means that it will scale up to permanently control a +2 boss. There's not much else that, without enhancement, can just start hitting a +2 boss, and guarantee pretty much no return fire from the boss. Now, if you had to use the primary in there to stack Stuns, maybe, but when the secondary alone can do it, that's pretty big. I mean, people take Air Superiority for the 100% knockdown, so getting in a higher-damage ranged attack is really strong. Adding in all the Stun mag even without Domination, and this secondary would basically remove the problem of "do I save Domination for the end boss or not".

I do like the idea of dependable secondary effect from it. I just think that if you're permanently stunning 2 minions, 1 Lt, or a boss for about 1/2 to 2/3 of the time, that is enough control to make it a good secondary. Add in the control from your primary, and you can really solo well. Total control is rarely necessary, and if you're in Domination mode, then you're pretty much shutting down an entire spawn with just attacks rather than controls, which saves a lot of Endurance and does more damage.

And remember, people WILL slot with Dam/Mez HOs, though that's probably enough of an outlier that it may not be worth considering when designing a balanced set. But even with just IOs, you can slot for a decent amount of Stun added in to the damage.

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Ok, so working with "/Energy's strength is single target control", and what we've learned that "chance of is pretty worthless, when you've got 100% controls in your primary". How can we arrange 100% effects in the controls to not be overpowered, but to still be useful.

* Power Bolt - 50% knockback, 50% mag 1 stun for 4 seconds. The one exception because it's the weakest.
* Bonesmasher - 100% mag 2 stun for 12 seconds.
* Power Push - 100% knockback, unchanged
* Power Blast - 100% mag 1 stun for 8 seconds, 100% knockdown.
* Whirling Hands - 100% mag 2 stun for 4 seconds.
* Total Focus - 100% mag 3 stun for 15 seconds. 100% knockdown.
* Sniper Blast - 100% knockback, 100% mag3 stun for 15 seconds.
* Power Burst - 100% mag 2 stun for 12 seconds, 100% knockdown.

Domination would probably add mag 1 to everything instead of doubling it.

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Very nice idea.
Numbers are overpowered (lower down to 2/3 values for all except Whirling Hands).
Otherwise very nice.

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If you're careful and watch where you're walking and know the ways back up (moving counter clockwise near the walls will reveal the ramps and stone stairs) that room is no problem at all. I love that room personally. Of course, this could be because I have taken the time to memorize it, every nook and cranny.


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Problem is not the layout as much as the number of spawn points in the room.
Instead of "Defeat Boss and Minions" meaning boss spawn and 2-5 other spawns in the room, it's like 5-10 other spawns in the room. So the same conceptual mission goal becomes several times longer/larger just due to which map it's on.

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If you look at the secondary in isolation that may be true. I spent a little time with your attack chain generator, and adding in a few primary powers I didn't get many gaps, even with the higher recharges for /Energy powers that have been suggested in this thread.

For some builds, and some play styles, it may be true that it wouldn't amount to much of an increase in DPS, but what about paired with a primary with some decent attacks? What about those who play more like a Controller, mostly focusing on locking things down, and throwing attacks when it's convenient? You can't look at the secondary in isolation and say the changes wouldn't be an improvement.


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Exactly. The reason Dom assault sets in general would all benefit from longer recharges and harder-hitting attacks cannot be seen when you look only at the assault sets themselves. The reason is created by having a primary that is also click-intensive. Soon as you add in a ST Hold, plus the option of a ST Immob in the primary, not to mention Levitate/Lift/Propel, even single-target, the Dom's attack chain gets overloaded. Then you consider the use of AoE controls and debuffs, and you really will have a lot of assault powers recharged and unusable because you're too busy doing other stuff.

Too many click powers means that we'd be better off with either shorter animations (not going to happen), or longer recharges/effects. Frankly, I'd love if they also pushed the Hold back 1-2 seconds, and increased the duration of the Hold appropriately. This way we could make full use of our primary and secondary, not to mention squeezing in PPP blasts and such.

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Actually in i7 pseudo-pets like LS were actually changed to inherent the casters' state. Now rech (ie hasten, speedboost) "may" not have been intended, but I find that very hard to believe that it wasn't known to be happening like claimed.

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Known? Yes. Statistically significant (as in, a noticeable blip in datamining), no. That came later.

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1: I agree, I don't recall many threads until this past year, and even mostly half year, that explained how to get your pet's attacks up faster. Even if the ability existed since I7, I doubt it was too widespread until relatively recently.

2: Given that this ability DOES cause an apparent statistical blip, is it warranted to revisit those sets that may have been boosted by the ability, and that now are going to lose some performance compared to competing sets? Specifically: Traps, Devices, Storm, Electric Blast, Mercs

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But what about exemptions to this fix. Thats what most of us want to know about. We already know its possible for some exemptions because there have been reports that the defender lightning storm still behaves the same as on live as on test yet the controller/corrupter/mastermind version of the power is now uneffected by recharge. I do think at the very least if you are making the powers not take recharge any more and if they arent able to be targeted anyways then maybe you can up the damage or change the recharge itself. I just really hate for lightning storm to become worthless outside of boss/av fights.

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Powers like Lightning Storm, Voltaic Sentinel and Auto Turret are precisely the powers that were targeted by this fix. Making exemptions for them would defeat the purpose, don't you think?

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I figured that from the beginning, BUT I have to ask this:

Okay, it's clear that "sneaking in Recharge" causes balance problems because it widens the gap between the SOs that the game is supposedly balanced around, and min-maxed IO builds. So, preventing the sneaking in of Recharge, may be quite appropriate in order to balance the powers properly. HOWEVER:

1) Gun Drone has a really large Endurance cost, is interruptible, and takes a very long while to set down, which makes is a between-combat power only. At least Recharge is useful for it because it's not permanent. Would you consider lowering its End cost to about 30, and making it a faster summons and hopefully not interruptible?

2) VS does not benefit from Recharge now since it's perma out of the box. End cost and animation time seems reasonable. Would you consider shortening its lifespan to about 45 seconds, and speeding up its fire rate so that it does the same damage over its lifetime? That way slotting up Recharge in it makes a bit of sense, right now since it doesn't stack, that's wasted slotting.

3) Lightning Storm is on a pretty long recharge, and supposedly balanced around doing close to its full damage, yet its fire rate is too slow to make it worth the End cost in anything but a boss/AV fight. Would you be willing to lower its End cost by about 20% so that it's not a waste to summon it for other fights, and also to give it an "alpha strike" capability by giving it a 1-use Chain Induction attack when its first summoned? That way its overall long-term DPS will hardly be affected, but it will become more useful when summoned for a single small fight.

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My observation has been that by staying within the rules, Energy can't surpass /Fiery for single target damage because of Blaze and Fiery Embrace, and can't surpass /Electricity because of Havoc Punch and Build Up. Fiddling with recharge and damage on all the powers is just a dead-end.

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Yes, but why would it have to surpass Electricity? /Ele deals damage in melee... the changes would help Energy deal more damage at range. Then, Ene is a little behind Ele overall, but a little ahead in ranged, and that seems reasonably balanced to me.

I mean, heck, let's try to get the set SOLID first, before we get it to be a top performer at something. Right now it's bad at ranged ST, has no ranged AoE, it's bad at melee ST and AoE. The changes would at least push it to decent in some of the categories, and we're more likely to get than than ones that push Ene to "best at something".

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QR

Without the running afoul of the cottage rule, fixing */energy assault is difficult. It's quite a bit of fail. But here goes:

1) [u] Bone Smasher[u] - Replace melee AT version with Blaster version

2.6 DS, 14 sec. recharge

[u]Justification[u] - An early boom for the baby Dom.

2)[u] Power Blast[u] - Replace Dom 6 sec version with Blaster/Defender 8 sec version with larger 1.64 DS

[u]Justification[u] - At level 10, the Dom probably has at least one control and power bolt for filler damage, so the increased recharge is worth the increased damage.

3) [u]Power Push[u] - Increase DS to 2.4; increase recharge to 16 sec.

[u]Justification[u]: KB on a set that gets a lot of damage from melee better be worth using.

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I am on board with any changes that involve longer Recharge, more Damage, and the same Activation time. That gives us bigger DPA, making powers worth the animation time. And Doms have enough click powers between the primary and secondary that we can make a nice attack chain even with longer recharges.

If I have a nice Bonesmasher available... then if I'm going to blast someone with a blast that may knock them away from my BS, that blast needs to do worthwhile damage. Frankly, I'd do a first and move the first 2 ST ranged blasts to 5 and 10 seconds, since their knockback is counterproductive to the melee. Alternately, make them do knockDOWN, though that is kind of against the Energy Blast theme.

So, I like EG's changes, and would also move Power Burst to 12-15 second recharge and make it a really heavy hitter, so that its animation time is worth it.

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One would think that, with the exceptions of Gravity and possibly Mind control, each secondary should yield the same (relative) added result for each Primary it's paired with.


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That's not necessarily true. Considering the combined base cast times (without adjusting for server ticks) of each primary (other than Grav/Mind)'s two main attacks, we see:
Fire at 2.24
Illusion is 2.74
Ice is 3.04
Plant is 3.27
Earth is 4.0

In addition, Illusion's recharges are longer, at 6 and 9 seconds, rather than 4 and 8. So Fire and Illusion end up with a good deal more "empty space" in their attack chains, due to much faster cast times for Fire, and a combination of faster cast times and longer recharges, for Illusion. So these two sets would have more room to insert more attacks from Power or Ancillary Pools, or more powers from their secondaries that may add to damage in some way.

As a note, Earth's huge -Def debuffs make using Veteran attacks great... but with their longest cast times and 4/8 recharge times, they actually have the least time in which to fit the Veteran attacks.

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I don't think this argument is worth as much as it sounds. Ill/Rad works well vs AVs because PA grabs aggro and is unkillable and Rad does just enough debuffing to let the troller whittle down the AV. Ill/Rad kills AVs, but it kills them slowly.

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Well, there are other reasons. Just look at your resulting DPS values, and consider the following:

1: Illusion will increase the most with a veteran or APP blast, since it only cycles 2 ranged attacks, and both are fast allowing for the use of other powers in the chain. Earth also fires only 2 powers, but they activate more slowly. Gravity and Mind use more powers from the primary.

2: Earth and Grav both will lose a lot of damage vs AVs since AVs consistently have Smash/Lethal resists. Most will not have Psy resists, so Illusion will easily push past Gravity since they are close already, and probably past Earth.

So that leaves Illusion where I expected it, in 2nd place behind Fire. As others mentioned at times, Fire is the fastest AV-killing primary, it's just a matter of how to keep your pets alive so they can do damage. So Illusion is considered the best AV-killing since it has no problems keeping its pets alive, but I doubt if anyone will disagree that a Fire/FF, range-Def-capped, and using Challenge, will defeat an AV faster than Ill/FF in the same situation or using perma-PA.

So that's why Illusion is so good vs AVs: 2nd best damage after you add in APPs and Smashing resists, and the set that is 1st in damage has a real problem keeping its pets alive vs AVs.

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I don't see how Phantasm doesn't add more damage either. Phantasm has generally been considered to be one of the higher damage pets, generally second to the Fire Imps. The upgrade to Rocky might have moved Phanty to 3, but I think he still does more damage than Jack, Twoey (Audrey II) and Singy. Now, I could see how Singularity might be considered a "support pet," but not Phantasm.

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Phantasm does knockback, not knockdown. And its single-target blast has longer range than its AoE.

So what happens is that upon a single target with no wall behind it, it will eventually knock the mob back out of its Energy Torrent range, and since it's still in range for its Blast, it will NOT move up closer in order to use ET.

Now, if it knocks the mob completely out of its range, it WILL move up... but usually only far enough to fire Blast again, not enough to use ET.

ET is not a good long-term DPS power upon a single target unless that target is an AV or has a wall behind it, so that it can keep using ET regularly.

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Post Deleted by Moderator_08

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It's him trying to boss you around when he tries to boss you around.
When he corrects what you have said, whether his correction is right or wrong, it's his belief that he is fighting against ignorance.

When he says that Frosty would do more damage IF XXX, he is not telling you that you need to prefer Frosty if he got changed by XXX. Just that Frosty would do more damage. Given that the thread is about damage done by Controller primaries, which include Frosty, I find his comments about the DPS done by pets to be quite relevant to the thread, rather than some sort of attempt to make you follow and worship him.

In other words: lighten up. He disagreed with you. He also said that you're ignorant if you believe what you stated, that Frosty is better due to cycling two attacks. You then got angry at being called ignorant, and argued that you cannot be called ignorant on public boards.

However, you most certainly CAN be called ignorant. There are two possibilities:
You ARE ignorant. What, are you then going to report someone for correcting your ignorance?
You are NOT ignorant. The proper response at this point is to demonstrate that you know what you're talking about, not to say "Hey, you can't call me that!".

Defend yourself against a claim of ignorance, by showing that the claim is false, and thus prove your accuser to be ignorant himself.
But defending by saying "you cannot say that" is a weak defense, because it could just as easily be used by anyone, however ignorant they might be. Since a total ignoramus could come up and say lots and lots of ignorant things, get called on it, and then say "You cannot call me ignorant, I'm reporting it", it is a weak defense.

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Positron, I am a little concerned about the possible rate griefing involved with being able to rate an arc that hasn't been played. Especially when there are badges involved in rating unrated arcs or ones that don't have many ratings. A lot of people will probably get their badges simply by going down the line of unrated arcs, slapping a 1 star rating on them, and getting their badge in the process. I've seen rating systems on web-published content experience things like that, and that's WITHOUT the enticing badge. Please reconsider allowing someone to rate an unfinished arc.

*EDIT* Been here since CoH beta, and this is the first time I've posted after a redname.

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I'm willing to listen to ideas on how truly horrible content can get rated without having to endure all of it.

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Allow rating only if you have completed the arc, or completed at least one mission in it, OR if you have died in the arc. That way a character must at least have tried a bit before rating it.

Limit an account to making only one rating every hour. Allow them to "delay" a rating if they rate one arc, then immediately run another and finish it in 20 minutes, but don't allow them to put a rating vote more quickly than once per hour.

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Do our arcs leave souvenirs?

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You can make souvenir clues.


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Can you make a souvenir/clue that is independent of mission completion or success? For example, hide an item in a sekrit location in your map, and if a player finds that item, they get the souvenir... but we wouldn't want to make that required for mission/arc completion, as it would let everyone get what should be an Easter Egg, or make the mission too annoying.

Similarly, could we put a conditional souvenir, such as "Saviour" if you managed to keep Fusionette alive in a mission against 3 EBs? Or to rescue a hostage who is being attacked soon as you enter the room, and has the HPs of a MM tier 1 minion?

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11. HAVE FUN. If you aren't having fun go find something else to do. I get an adrenaline rush from a great run because its fun. The reward is just an added bonus.


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OOps, I must have missed this part.

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He is not really having fun he is just saying that so we can not call him a loot [censored] ha! ahahha lawlzor time

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Not necessarily. We've had "TF races" for measly reward, before IOs. It was done for fun and bragging rights between SGs. There are plenty of reasons to do "speed runs" that have nothing to do with reward. Plenty of players solo AVs knowing that isn't the best way to get rewards per minute of playing time. Overcoming a challenge is fun for many, and a good amount will define "doing X TF in a faster time than most players would believe" as a challenge.

Long as this got bumped up, a few of my own comments plus some updates:

Burst is now 1.0 sec activation, making it a GREAT power. It can be used when mezzed, and since a AR/Dev's secondary power that can be used while mezzed is Web Grenade (non-damaging), it is a must-have so that you can still output damage while mezzed. It takes -Def sets, which include a Damage IO (nice to put in a fast-recharge Tier 1 blast), and Achilles Heel -Res Proc.

Slug is 1.67 sec activation, making it even better. It's no longer the unquestioned single-target jewel just because Burst used to be so slow and got improved tremendously, but it's still a solid single-target attack, which can slot KB sets (+Recharge Proc, cheap Damage Proc, or 4xKinetic Crash for KB resist).

Buckshot is underrated because it doesn't hit that hard per shot. But it fires almost twice as fast as Flamethrower, and recharges twice as fast, which gives it comparable DPA and DPS... along with a superb 50% Knockback chance. Also, the Knockback turns to KnockDOWN against higher-level foes (+3 and up), so it's great on high-difficulty teams as constant knockdown... slotted reasonably, you fire it every 5-6 seconds, constantly knocking down half the mobs you shoot at. Also, while its base damage is low, Damage Procs in it will increase its damage a lot, and it also takes the cheap KB Damage IO. Put the Ragnarok Knockdown IO in it once you're 50 for additional hilarity (though I might prefer it in Caltrops).

Ignite is teh awesome that makes AR have good ST damage despite all the infidel nonbelievers. With most mobs, you don't even have to worry about Stunning if you have decent defenses or Aid Self.... Web Grenade, Ignite, Slug, Burst... next target. It may take a few more seconds for Ignite to finish them off, but it's a done deal. Oh, one note related to the new Defiance: Ignite will give a nice Defiance bonus, and can be used pre-fight. You can open every fight with Ignite, Caltrops, Ignite at your feet, and now you're ready to fight with a good +Dam bonus. A poor man's Buld Up, but also prevents attackers from closing to melee, and is always available.

Gun Drone... I try to like this power, like many others. But the animation time and being interruptible is a killer. If it had a fast "left wristwatch tap" animation like some of the Traps powers or Surveillance, it would be worth it. The power is good for the slots spent, for the End spent, and if the damage is low, getting extra damage that pulls aggro away from you and fires when you're mezzed is always good. But it slows me down if used between spawns, and of course with its activation time and being interruptible, I'm not using it in a fight. So when I'm rushing through missions, blowing mobs up with BS/FT and with Cryo Freeze Ray/Ignite on one target and WG/Ignite on the other two in a spawn, it doesn't do enough damage to warrant slowing me down. So I don't use it except for the boss at the end... do I want to take and slot up a power that I will only use for the boss? I may as well just slot up Trip Mine more, and put down a minefield. Given Trip Mine ambushes, a way to fight end bosses is probably NOT what Devices needed, but the activation is too slow to use constantly while rushing through missions.

Targetting Drone: a must-have now, because of Gaussian. I cannot pass up 2.5% Defense to all situational damage types, in addition to the other nice set bonuses and the fact that it's slotting up a decent +ToHit power. Yes, a ToHit power is not all that necessary, but I like Gaussian's bonuses too much to skip it. With dual builds, I may take Tactics instead on a teaming build, but in either case I want the Defense bonuses.

AR/Dev works very well, I've found, as a ranged-only Def-based Blaster. Because you never want to be in melee range, and with Caltrops and Web Grenade and Buckshot you have excellent tools to avoid melee from almost every enemy, you can spend your influence on getting sets that give you +RangedDefense without worrying that you're wasting money when some boss will close to melee and kill you anyhow. This is why I'm so high on the Gaussian, because it's easy to make an AR/Dev build with 20% Ranged Defense, and not hard to make one with 30%, which along with Aid Self makes them extremely survivable even when rushing headlong through Invincible missions.