Bill Z Bubba
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Posts
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Joined
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The thing about that line of thinking is that it's just as likely to have a string of not firing off as it is to have a good string. The RNG in this game is a fickle beast. That's why with stick with the averages.
EDIT: I should note, even knowing that using SP may not give the best results, I can't tell you how sick I am of the MG, SL, Gloom, Smite chain I use right now on my brute. It goes Left Hand, Alternates, Left Hand, Left Hand, repeat.
I'm seriously thinking about putting SP back in my build just so that I can have some damn variety. -
Claws/SR on a brute is an easier ride that it is on a scrapper for two reasons: more HP which means you get more out of the passive scaling resists, and evasion comes into the build a lot earlier.
Le Blanc, hit 22 and get SOs. It makes a world of difference. Snag tough and get the steadfast +3 defense slotted. The two together make things even better.
Keep on truckin. You'll be shocked at how just how good a soft-capped SR can be especially comparing it to how hard a ride it is early on. -
I realized what I had done wrong while laying in bed attempting to fall asleep: I started the timer with the initial followup and not after the buff began.
This is a good thing.
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Werner,
How are you figuring that the triple stack can land on both focus and slash at all? What did I do wrong in the post up thread? -
Have yall found the damage inflicted chat logs to be flaky? I'm running into quite a few instances of the second half of slash not being stated in the log.
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Quote:It's not accurate if you completely ignore just how nerfed down we were by ED, the GDN and aggro and aoe caps.Originally Posted by Dysmal
If this was true, no character would be any more powerful than they were in April 2004.
The presumption that every buff to the game is somehow balanced out by a corresponding nerf or mob buff baffles me. It just isn't accurate.
Far as I'm concerned, many builds are only now catching back up to where we were before all of that. Pushing us past it places us right back in the zone that prompted ED/GDN in the first damn place. -
It's never good enough!!!
/runs off sobbing
oh wait...
/runs off stabbing babies and puppies
Yea, that's more in character. -
Oh I hope you're wrong....
When does the buff from FU actually kick in? As soon as the cast ends? And after the .2 second delay? Wouldn't that imply that the first attack after FU is never buffed? I can test that in a minute.
I will swap focus and slash if you're right.
Chain below is fu, slash, focus, pause
1.056, buff starts, 2.64, 3.96, 4.356
5.412, buff 2, 6.996, 8.316, 8.712
9.768, buff 3, 11.352, buff 1 falls off, 12.672
Now without the pause
1.056, buff starts, 2.64, 3.96
5.016, buff 2, 6.6, 7.92
8.976, buff 3, 10.56, buff 1 falls off, 11.88
Damn. Even with focus as the second attack, it is impossible to get a triple stack on more than the 2nd attack in the chain. Damn. Damn. Damn.
This drops the DPS back down to ... damnit. 207.7 with the pause, 228.5 without.
Damn. -
Thanks to Leandro's patch, I've worked out my main's claws/sr build for I-19.
1.1 second downtime on Hasten for a total global rec-red of 172.5%
19.9% S/L dam-res
10.6% F/C dam-res
3% to the other types dam-res
45.7 positional defense
15.5 typed defense
1913 hitpoints
27.7 HP/sec regen
17.5% global damage buff
3.9 end/sec recovery
1.56 end/sec end usage
Conserve Power to cover what that recovery doesn't
Followup will have 268.8% recharge making its recharge time set at 3.254 seconds. That means if I shoot for the followup, slash, focus, repeat attack chain, there will be a nasty .35 second pause in my chain.
Adding that pause in, and then rounding up to the next .132 as per a post from Werner, which puts the pause at .396 seconds, my estimated DPS will be 221.6.
Once I get the +recharge alpha slot, that pause will be reduced and my DPS will get better. If I can somehow manage no pause, this build will reach 243.7 DPS.
EDIT: Since there's so much recovery, I'm looking at ways to tweak in some more recharge.
Made edits. -
Ohhh, that's nasty, man. By the by... check the scrapper forum shortly.
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Worked without issue, Leandro. Thanks much.
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Using your build, you've got a 10 second downtime on hasten, but I'm going to ignore that for now. I'm also going to use the stated recharge times in Mids for each power.
Your chain of MG, SP, Smite, SP, Smite will have two pauses. The first before the second smite and then another before MG fires off again. The values of those two pauses are .672 and the aforementioned .854 for an extra total pause value of 1.526 seconds.
Using that pause and 3 enemies in range to fuel Soul Drain, I put the DPS of that chain at 182.568
For reference, if there were no pauses at all in the chain, the DPS would be 223.953. You can see just how much pauses negatively affect DPS. However, as stated, this would be impossible without outside buffs.
Using your same build, but changing the attack chain so that no pauses exist, I can get a chain of MG, SP, Smite, SP, SL and it does 211.368 DPS.
Again using the build as show, the chain of MG, Smite, SL, Smite, there would be a pause before MG fires again of .702 and would do 198.085 DPS. If you could get more recharge in MG and remove that pause, the DPS would go up to 218.741. -
Nahh, that's what Mids and the test server are for. Plot it out in Mids, test it on test after copying over After you get the freespec, get it right there, then do it on live.
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Quote:Not arguing, man. Just found it humorous. I've got as much hate for the no stamina levels as the next guy. Regardless of anything else I think about this change in regards to the post-22 game, I'll be enjoying the hell out of it before 22.Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Bill, theres a difference between 'easy' and 'so ungodly ****ing frustrating I want shot of it as soon as damn possible'.
If 'easy' equates to not having to rest after every mob, then fine. I can live with that. -
Quote:It means that you'll never have to choose it as a power pick. You'll have it from level 2 to level 50 on all characters and it can still be slotted as you slot it now. It frees up a power pool.
What do you mean Fitness is gonna be inherent for 1-19? I'll have that spell no matter what from 1-19? Well... i'm about to hit 20. :-/ -
If Smite is recharging in 1.91 seconds that means you must have a total recharge of 214% for smite.
That will turn the chain into 2.244, 1.056, 1.188, 1.056, .854 pause, 1.188 for a total chain time of 7.586 versus the prior 6.732.
Picking random numbers from the ether, if said chain was at 100 DPS at 6.732 it will drop to 88.74 DPS at 7.586 seconds so that pause is a considerable hit to the damage output.
Later on tonight I can punch your build into my spreadsheet to get a better handle on this. -
Quote:Didn't you just answer your own question?
Give me one, good, solid example of just HOW this makes the game easier? 1-20 won't be such a suck fest. -
Quick thoughts:
Fitness is about to become inherent with I-19 so keep that in mind for your future plans.
Followup, Slash, Focus and Spin are Claws' bread and butter, but I'll be honest... followup isn't nearly as necessary on a brute as it is on a scrapper in the early levels when considering its damage buff. The tohit buff, on the other hand, I'd still take FU for that alone.
Regardless, in the end game, any attack chain with followup will be better than a chain without it.
Consume just got buffed so I plan to take it on my FA/FM tank.
Single target chain comparison:
FU, Slash, Focus, Swipe, repeat needs more recharge in FU to work without a pause and does less DPS than FU, Slash, Focus, Strike, repeat.
I advise dumping either strike or swipe as you feel correct at some point in the 20s. Leveling up to there, however, I'm a firm believer in taking swipe, strike, slash, spin, focus and followup and using the hell out of whatever is up. -
Quote:/focusOriginally Posted by Catastrophe
Glad at least one of you melee addicts is willing to admit your inferiority!
crit + chance for buildup + proc damage
/eviscerate
crit + damage proc
Done. -
Quote:Me, too. (I should REALLY be working instead of doing this....)Originally Posted by Smersh
I get the feeling that getting Smite to recharge in .83 seconds is going to be a tough project, Bill.
Chain of MG, SP, Smite, SP, Smite
Arcanatimes for each:
2.244, 1.056, 1.188, 1.056, 1.188
Recharges at base:
MG: 15
Smite: 6
SP: 3
Recharge reduction needed:
MG will need (15-4.488)/4.488 = 234%
Smite needs (6-1.056)/1.056 = 468% (Yea, that ain't happening.)
SP needs (3-1.188)/1.188 = 153%
Sorry, OP. There's no way in hell you're going to get enough recharge in smite for that chain to be possible.
EDIT: Still betting that MG, Gloom, SL, Smite, repeat is going to be the best I can do on my brute. Sure hope BAB gets some alternating animations in there some day. -
Cast times for the two chains including arcanatime:
MG, Smite, SL, Smite = 6.732
MG, SP, Smite, SP, Smite = 6.732
Well... that's kinda groovy.
If I can find the time, unless one of the others beats me to it, I'll work out how much recharge is needed in each power to see if your build can pull it off. If it does work, I'm going to have to take another look at my dm/wp brute. -
Fair enough.
I can't even begin to understand the mindset of the person or persons you're describing. With the vast extremes that exist between those slotted with SOs that enjoy +1/x1 diff and those that have min/maxed and run at +4/x8, you'd think that everyone could find their happy place.
Power creep and the usual backlash from it are my only concern. Had this change occurred before IOs were introduced and if it weren't being put into play in the same issue as the first few incarnate powers, I wouldn't be having this discussion. I'd be saying nothing but "woot" and happily waiting for it to go live. -
Quote:Here, have a mirror, Mr. Obtuse.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Are you being obtuse on purpose? You can still opt out of power increases even with respecs. I know you know this, because you already do it to an extent, but you do not HAVE to make every power choice and every slot about further increasing your might and uberness.
This does not dumb down the game in the slightest. I wholeheartedly believe the intent was for more people to be able fit in a concept power or two. I believe most people will do just that. I believe some few will simply increase their power (and hopefully they are doing it because that is what they find fun). All in all, the change seems to be a big benefit to everyone.
The only losers are those who want to maintain their current power level, and yet are compelled to min/max everything they do, so they MUST increase their power, despite not actually wanting to.
I don't have to slot enhancements, either, do I? I can lower my diff to -1/x1 no bosses no avs as well. I won't, of course, because I don't consider that fun.
I'm also not being forced by this change to continue to augment my main's already prodigious performance levels. I will do so because that's what I do with him. It's what I've always done with him. It's what I will always do with him.
And as the incarnate powers come in I will continue to crank him up.
And I won't be alone in doing so. We'll have a new batch of people running around soloing content that is "designed for teams." We'll have more players punching their difficulty levels to the diff cap. The current content will become easier and easier. As things stand NOW, on the day the new CoP trial went live, a group from Pinnacle tore through it in 15 minutes.
There will be more of that. You obviously don't feel that this is a bad thing. And it won't be for a while. Then it will be. And another aggro cap or ED or GDN or aoe cap type nerf will occur to bring everyone back down a peg.
Good thing I don't feel compelled to min/max and hate doing it. I'd have to agree that such a person would be a loser. Much like those that assign false motivations because they're too ignorant to make logical statements. -
Quote:If I drop CJ to make room for assault and maneuvers as the fitness move opens a pool up for hasten, then the total of 4 slots in CJ will be moved directly to Maneuvers. I currently have 4 Perf Shifter IOs in CJ so the actual end reduction may be greater than that.
That's about what I was thinking. Will you actually have a full SO's worth of end reduction in Maneuvers? It sounds like you have an LotG in there now.
As for the argument at hand, as long as you accept that what's going to happen in I-19 is a buff without sacrifice where making the changes to get the same level of DPS output now would cost me in both utility and mitigation, then there's nothing left to argue about. It's a buff. A big one for some of us.
Oh goody. I can opt out of this change by NEVER RESPECING MY CHARACTER AGAIN.Quote:Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Why is the change going to happen? I think I am confused about what you are saying. Am I following you correctly?
My build is fun right now and I find the game just challenging enough to entertain me.
This change will allow me to make a "better" build, but it will remove enough of the challenge that I believe I will find the game less entertaining.
So why do it? This change forces ZERO changes upon you. Why complain about something that is completely optional? If you are sure this change will make the game less fun for you, simply opt out.
Yea, that's a brilliant idea, man.
I'm obviously also concerned that this change is dumbing down the game. How much that dumbing down actually hurts the game on the whole I do not know. I hope that it accomplishes what seems to be the devs' desire: make the low game fun enough that more people stick around.
But it's also going to make the game even more ridiculously simple for those of us that choose to play the game with more than just SOs slotted in our builds. -
Quote:By making it easier, the change is making it happen. What you're stating here is a dodge and I think you know that. At current prices, I would need to farm for around 20 straight hours to be able to afford the PvP unique versus the tip farming I'm doing now with less actual game time, although the days to do it will take far longer in real time.
OK, so you could have this build today barring the Incarnate slot, without the Fitness change to an inherent.
That means that the Fitness change isn't introducing the potential for a DPS leap for your character. It's making it easier, no doubt, but it's not creating a situation that doesn't already exist.
If someone were to hand me the +3% unique right now, I still wouldn't do it because dropping combat jumping for hasten would kill off one of my LotGs. Being able to have the new open pool means I can move the 4 LotGs I have in CJ to maneuvers AND get hasten AND get assault.
So, yes, this change IS the cause of a massive increase in my character's DPS. A change I could have now with sacrifice I'll soon be able to have without any sacrifice.
Assault: .39/sec reduced with a single so to .29Quote:You might want to look at that carefully. I don't think PP adds up to enough EPS for that without good slot investment in either it or those powers.
Maneuvers: .39/sec reduced with a single so to .29
Total end consumption added: .58
PhysPerf: .125 with another PerfShifter chance for +end adding, if I recall, about .2 on average.
Using conserve power will cover the remaining usage.