_Phantom_

This is such a strong piece; full of threat and mystery.

Awesome.

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Sweet pose, strong presence!
Great job man!

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Although I agree with most of the comments on Liefeld's work, I'd hate to have anyone look at mine so closely (and with such passion).

He may not deserve to be famous, but I'm not sure he deserves all the bashing either.

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Im with you juggs, to a degree.
He is more of a lighting rod for the principal of the thing though.

Correct me if im wrong but he did help start up image comics right?
So he essentially bought his way into the industry and therefore doesnt have to adhere to any standards; he can just invent his own.

While that sounds romantic in a "stickin it to the man" kind of way it also sends a bad message when you essentially leapfrog over the standards that are in place - for a reason - by buying your way into the business when theres a lull in the action and producing sub-mediocre material that inevitably sets the bar lower for the entire genre if it becomes a success.

Whats even more aggravating is that the guy could be amazing - if he just got out of the way of himself and actually attempted some kind of accuracy; some kind of referencing...SOMETHING!

I wouldnt be complaining at all if they guy at least "acted" like he cared about human anatomy and comic fundamentals.

What I see is someone who got told he needed to improve and didnt like it and decided to buy his way into the business instead.

I think he and image really hurt the business.
What comics needed when he came along was better writing and a new artist who *raised* the bar. Thats why adversity can be so great IMHO; it makes you try something new, it makes you evolve and adapt and overcome.

What he did was basically use short skirts and dollar bills to make the show intersting instead of the venue itself changing locations because the foundation desperately needed renovations.


Ok ill shut up now...sorry I get hot about stuff like this.

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On that note, can anyone tell me why Rob Liefield is so hated? Is it because of his inventive anatomy style? I'm not a big fan, but he does have a distinct style...

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Is "inventive anatomy style" a way of saying, "he can't draw bodies for [censored]"?

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Yes.

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If you do a yahoo search for Rob Liefeld, one of the links will be for a site called Progressive Boink, which gives a rather lengthy and mildly amusing tirade on why he doesn't like Liefeld. I'd link to it, but it's full of profanity and I don't want to be modsmacked.
TL

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I'm not even going to draw the other hand. No one will notice.

How many teeth are in a mouth? Like, a billion? I'll draw a billion.

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Wow.
I actually became fearful that I would suck a little more as an artist *by merely looking* at Liefelds "work".

Seriously.
I was working, taking a break and came here to haunt like I usually do and saw this thread, did a search for progressive boink and started reading.
I had a few laughs in the beginning, some toward the end.

Then this insidious gnawing darkness began creeping all over me as I looked at his work and began talking to myself; more and more and more:

"Do I do that?...no..no I dont..no way...
..wait..do I?...crap!..omg are my proportions right?... theyre right arent they?..
...honey, can you come here a minute please?.."


Please dont bring this guy's name up again..for the love of god.

Honestly - and this may sound really pretentious and jerky - but I really believe that stuff like this becoming popular in mainstream sales is *extremely* bad for the business and bad for the genre.
If stuff like this sells briskly it essentially says: "See? you dont have to have standards for art and writing, just the right connections and money."

It just sets the bar soooo low.


Sorry if thats dickish or "on the high-horse" sounding but I really believe in pushing yourself in your craft to be the best your capable of being, to challenge yourself always and improve.

Seeing stuff like that just makes me curl into a fetal position and cry in an anatomy book.

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Actually I did find paying per page a lot easier than panel... My mind tends to wander and I get easily distracted. I used to pay 50 to 70 bucks per page before hand and if the artist did an exceptionally good job, Id pay an extra 20 bucks. But the last 2 artists.. eh I rather be honest and not lie to other writers if I'm asked about the work.

But it is what it is. Too many bad apples from both sides ruin it for the rest of those trying to claw out a living.

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ok yeah i hear ya, but just remember we can't talk digits on the forums.

But i get it. Did you get to review what the artists were doing? and approve the pencils? Or did you just go into this all blindly? Damn i need to get on with that guide lol

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I did review the art and I was suitably impressed. But then the work began to slack and then the delays... Eh. But enough my misery!

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Believe it or not most of us here are trying to help you.

And believe it or not a lot of us can sympathize with your position.

Its pretty obvious you have a very powerful ambition, high standard and a vision.
I can relate..and I mean really relate.

There was a time in my youth when I basically had the mentality of expected people to either recognize my vision and help me or get out of my way.

I didnt think I was being unreasonable or asking too much - but I was.
To put it in simple terms my own ambition and passion had poisoned my thinking.
You either were with me or against me, it was never my thinking and never my behaviour.
I eventually used up or pushed out just about everyone, whom I just chalked up to being "unreliable" or "too arrogant" to work with.

I wish I could say that it was sooner rather than later that I finally comprehended that I was the common denominator for all my problems and frustrations and with that realization the universe suddenly seemed to not be conspiring against me anymore.

If you dont mind me saying so I think I sense this in you.

At the risk of sounding presumptious and pompous; I think ive been around long enough and dealt with it within myself long enough to recognize it when passion and ambition begin to burn someone alive and obscure thier vision.

Take it from someone who has to practice daily at making sure that thier own ambition and drive doesnt corrupt thier thinking.

Learn the business.
Focus.
Learn to sacrifice.
Learn patience.
Learn to live with less.

/end sermon.

Believe me, we understand where your coming from - this is a great, great forum and I can say with confidence that while it may seem like everyone is ganging up on you they are in reality trying to help you.

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The Red Phantom needs your help. His adventures (in web comic forum) has been languishing in the limbo where left socks disappear to and where lint comes from.

Since the beginning of 2008, I have gone thru 2 artists (one was a Steve Ditko/Jack Kirby wanna-be, the other was a pretentious, artistically inconsistent smug [censored]) and have spent the last few months seeking out artists who can do it all and do panels to no avail.

First, let me say this is non-paying. Unless you count good karma. You will get credit obviously. Eventually I plan to have the comic published and distributed at comic-cons and local stores.

Second... Well there really isn't any 2 part. If you have any questions about the Red Phantom, please feel to contact me.

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Non-paying work that eventually "may" get published and distributed is pretty much lawyer material and a hard sell to artists.
I would draw up a contract for your own and your freelance help's own protection.

Ive done the "in good faith" and "for good karma" thing several times and gotten burned, bad - i.e. doing work and getting no kill-fee for your time if the project goes belly up or having your e-mails and calls ignored if sales become brisk.

You likewise can get taken to the cleaners if you do end up publishing it with no contract when the artist comes after you for back-royalties.

Not to bust your crank or anything, but a lot of us have been there, done that and bought the t-shirt with writer/publishers in training who act like thier doing you a favor by offering you a non-paying gig - save yourself the headache and either draw up a contract or god-forbid; pay an artist for his/her time.

I love this.
Love the off balance horizon and indirect/under lighting, juggs!
Im a little bias since I love horror and love employing both of those tricks a lot.

Great job!

/sigh

I just became a daddy literally 2 weeks ago. I cant even imagine what its going to be like to give her away one day - Its something im already dreading/looking forward to.

She is a lovely young woman and the young man she is with (if that is indeed him on the first page of your photobucket) has a benevolent look in his eye.

Congratulations sir, I wish you and yours all the best!

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The problem I see with the face is that the face is going to one angle and the rest is going towards another. I definitely dig the way you did the wings, the blades, and the auras around them. I think to make the piece more solid, I'd actually get rid of the back arm entirely as it would make for a much more solid silhouette. Your forearm on the front arm is a bit too long, and the hand is lacking structure. That said, I also wanted to ask if this is a photo manipulation attempt like your DA gallery, or if you're attempting to strike out on your own?

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Is solid feedback.

I fully agree about removing the right arm, in addition to adjusting his hairline, wings and jaw.
Id also lower the height of his scapula; it draws my attention immediately from the focus' of the work.

I hope my observations are of some use to you.

Solid work, without a doubt!
I just dont have the feel for lineart, its just not my bag - I sure as hell enjoy it when others do it though.

Im guilty of losing perspective after looking at something too long myself.
Thank god my wife will tell me when something is off.
I used to live in a bubble where everyhting I did was loved by my buddies, but I never improved - they didnt mean any harm and honestly loved the stuff, as they do now - but I was sheltered big time.

This is a cool excercise your doing, im a big fan or rubbing out ego and making the art #1, not the artist.

Post that sucker when your through!

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Ditto

ps

Im not allowed to play with you anymore or the mods said they will toss me in the time out box .

they didn't actually threaten to suspend my posting privlages just that they would toss me in a box , place a gallon jar of scorpians in said box and nail it shut for 24 hours .

I think they were joking ......maybe

in either case im on my best behavior for at least the rest of the week .

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Im actually sorry to hear that, I never really interpreted you as being serious!
A little jousting is good for the soul in my book, I honestly had fun with it and didnt ever take you seriously.

What sucks about the internet is tone and cadence get completely lost and picking on eachother for fun can often be interpreted as being a total nuclear meltdown.

Im from NY and im not a young guy - so in the future just imagine what im saying sounds like tony soprano funnin' with his buddies during a pool-game, thats really the only way I can explain how I come across in real life.

Anyhoo - sorry you got ribbed by the mods, I sure as hell didnt report you.

Good sketch, finish it!

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Hola mi amigos and amigas !

Below you will find a very rough sketch of Dragonberry Swimming underwater im working on .

I figured since everyone seems to be chomp chomp chomping at the bit to be amateur art critics id post it here for a red lining review

"Wait you mean I can't just drone on and on about whats wrong with the sketch ?"

well yes and no

I can't stop you from droning on and on but what your texting and im seeing are usually vastly different and I get bored after the first sentence anyways .

So grab a red pen or marker and go to town on the linked image
so I and the other forumites can see what the heck your blabbing on about .

If I get any bites i'll try to adapt the sketch to the general consensus

"Wait you won't automaticly change the sketch based on my awesome ideas ? "

nope but i'll at least consider it , well consider it if you post a redlined version, babbling on and on just means i'll bypass your ideas :P

Sketch for red lining

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You got a really nice weightless feel for sure and its a solid concept as well as solid anatomy work.
Id change the tail, it looks like its fit into the frame and unnatural.
I'd either use it to promote her movement more or let it drift off camera while promoting her movement.

Id do a redlined version but I dont have the time, besides id just post a blank page with an eraser on it to break your chops a little because you make it so fun!

I usually post if I like a piece of art someone submitted or to possibly help someone looking for ways they can improve thier craft, as I am always looking to do so for myself.

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Actually im making a statement about your blind patriotism for Americana and its place at the center of the universe but I understand how this might confuse you .

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Were going back to your statement now?
I thought you wanted to critique me?

Oh about that statement?
You made it up not me.


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actually you pretty much admitted to it , but apparently your love of Americana is only present when it suits you which is rather sad .

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Oh now im a blind patriot that only is patriotic when its convienient?
Which in itself would be impossible if I was indeed a blind patriot!

Watching you sink your own ship is fun, what else am I?

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you said it not me

good post

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Ahh well.
You never did tell me what else I am.

Well..sadly, dinner time is over.
I gotta head on out now but it was fun.

I gotta go back to work.
But before I do I wanted to tell ya that I wish I could stay behind and continue, but cant becasue I have stuff to do.

Go ahead and get the last shot in scarfgirl, ill go ahead and give it to you.
Because I guarentee youll take it and then probably move on to someone else.
Just remember when you start picking on someone else that ive left, but your still sitting around doing it - and ive called it.

Enjoy

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Actually im making a statement about your blind patriotism for Americana and its place at the center of the universe but I understand how this might confuse you .

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Were going back to your statement now?
I thought you wanted to critique me?

Oh about that statement?
You made it up not me.


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actually you pretty much admitted to it , but apparently your love of Americana is only present when it suits you which is rather sad .

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Oh now im a blind patriot that only is patriotic when its convienient?
Which in itself would be impossible if I was indeed a blind patriot!

Watching you sink your own ship is fun, what else am I?

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its amusing to watch you flail about , like I said it appears your skin isn't nearly as thick as you made it out to be but seriously lay off the chanisms they make you look less and less intelligent by the second .

could you post lol and rofl too soo I can take you even more seriously ?

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So im thinned skinned, confused and flailing about?
This is on top of bieng a blind patriot and global narccicist in addition to becoming ever decreasingly intelligent with each post.

Its amazing that im even able to type!

Yet your able to be amused by all this.
Hmm..sounds like the bar is set a little low for you..dont you think?

Please continue, what else am I?

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Actually im making a statement about your blind patriotism for Americana and its place at the center of the universe but I understand how this might confuse you .

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Were going back to your statement now?
I thought you wanted to critique me?

Oh about that statement?
You made it up not me.

I thought we covered this?
Im goofy for being grateful of my rights as an american citizen while posting on the internet, from america - but you arent goofy for telling people what they can or cannot post on the internet depending on what country theyre from.

Then we started discussing you getting wtfpwnt by your own logic at which point you changed the subject.

So whats next?

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riiight , nice try .

I guess you are likely trying too hard now and it looks like since you are lashing out i've hit home .

I guess your not as good as taking criticism as you posted you where which can only lead me to belive the rest of your post is likely fabrications .

good point

ps

you really used own in that manner , very nice .

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Actually the forums are not a free country and we can't really say anything we want or post anything we want and the rules on the forum are not nesacarrily the rules for our country of origin , other then that nice post

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Thanks for your critique, it was very helpful.


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more a statement really but I can see how your blind patriotism for Americana and its place at the center of the universe might confuse you

:P

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Wait, your critiquing me now?
Oooohh I get it - losing the arguement so change the arguement.
I didnt realize I was lashing out, I thought I was sitting here on my dinner break eating some pizza.
Sooo...whats next?
Im a racist..mentally unstable?

This is fun, by all means...continue.

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Generally they do if you end your post with "It works for me and after all its a free country, people have died for us to have the priviledge of speaking freely - even if the speaker sucks. "

and it was just a shot in the dark , honestly you could have been from sweden .

But saying its a free country on a forum populated by people from any number of coutries is a bit goofy and as pointed out wrong .

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Oops!
I didnt realize you were the arbiter of the internet.

Help me out here.
Its goofy to be thankful of my rights as an american citizen on the internet while being in america, but not goofy to tell people what is or isnt acceptable on the internet depending on thier country of origin?

Youll be alright, one day.

Heres a suggestion - you might want to quit while your ahead because if *I* can own you with your own logic then the other people around here - who are 100X's smarter than me - are going to eat you alive.

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more a statement really but I can see how your blind patriotism for Americana and its place at the center of the universe might confuse you

:P

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If you say so.

Of course appreciating and being thankful for my rights as an american citizen automatically translate into blind patriotism and global narccicism.

Good point.

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Actually the forums are not a free country and we can't really say anything we want or post anything we want and the rules on the forum are not nesacarrily the rules for our country of origin , other then that nice post

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Thanks for your critique, it was very helpful.

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/Battlewraith

You've really got a gift for rendering there, my friend. That helmet looks like I could reach up and grab it. There are a lot of elements in your other pieces that rival 3d shading as well.

Personally, though, the reason I savor this one and many of the pieces in your gallery is that they really bring to mind the era of EERIE and CREEPY particularly, but Epic and Heavy Metal too. The vocabulary and design sensibility of your stuff evokes to me the stuff I loved as a kid that got me into art. Keep working, keep growing, and most of all keep enjoying what you're doing. Thanks for sharing!

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Dude, this one of the best compliments ive ever gotten - thanks very much!

Like you I grew up on CREEPY, EERIE, Heavy Metal and TWISTED TALES, so im extremely happy that this came through for you.
And the 3d compliments means a lot to me.
Richard Corben is what got me wanting to achieve that look.
I saw his stuff when I was 11 years old and said to myself " I want that..and ill do anything in the world to get it.."

Granted it was one of his fantasy babes with juddering melons; but being a young artist it introduced me to what was possible and that hunger has never ceased.

Thanks very much for this, it made my night.

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My rule is that if you want to praise me, do so. If you're going to complain you can [censored] off or pay me to listen.

That's how I roll, playa.

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You owe me a coffee, several paper towels and a couple toots of windex.
Plus the 50 dollah labor charge to clean off my monitor.

Pure.
Lulz.

As for the subject: I this is really the perfect place to be asking a question like this.

I have a lotta different feelings about this issue.
I guess it really all boils down to the spirit of the critique.
For instance, I got recently critiqued here on my latest work.
The spirit of it ( at least to me) was someone trying to be helpful and sharing thier (obviously abundant) knowledge of schooled art technique; which is something I know little about since im not formally trained and got kicked out of high-school.
While I didnt share his views the spirit is what mattered.

I personally welcome critiques; its the only way your going to get better.
But critiques; like art - are of varying quality and tone.

Take anatomy for example.
There isnt one human body that is like another one.
Some people have distributions of weight in certain areas and bone structures that vary wildly from what would be considered a baseline. Theres a big difference between fudging anatomy and exaggerating it. So when someone says "That guys forearm is too big" and the guy isnt even human and has another forearm that matches it - you might want to question the quality of such a criticism.

Some people criticize out of jealousy or conversely out of cruelty when they are of obviously higher skill level and feel like hurting someone.
Ive seen and been the target of both, and it really feels rotten.
You learn to tell the difference after a while.
Ive found that if you are gracious and thank each and every one in all circumstances you learn something everytime.
You really cant lose if you kill em with kindness.

The jealous and malicious people dont get satisfaction, the kind and helpful people get to feel like theyre good intentions were received.

What can be frustrating is when someone has good intentions and you simply dont agree with them, for valid reasons; and they think you cant take criticism..THAT is frustrating.

I welcome it.
There was a time when I thought I welcomed it, but really couldnt take the criticisms. I was used to being surrounded by friends who pretty much loved everything I did.
Around this time I submitted my pencil stuff to RPG companies in the 90's and I got my buns handed to me, and it hurt my pride really bad. When I got over it and reflected on what they said and the spirit of how they were saying it, it ended up being a massive turning point and critical juncture in my growth.

Ill shut up now but basically: Dont react to the critique but think about it and honestly ask yourself if they are right - then thank em and move on.

It works for me and after all its a free country, people have died for us to have the priviledge of speaking freely - even if the speaker sucks.

Dude, nice job - he really feels aloft!
I like his design too, its really street.
Nice work with the dark mass curving around to compliment his posture as well.