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Quote:You get to play one as soon as they let me play a tank.Originally Posted by Ra_Ra
Soooo. When do I get to play my AR Ice Blaster? -
That would depend on how close they are. Like Conflict vs ConfIict (with 2 i's) would be hard to tell apart.
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Quote:I remember being asked my opinion about you. I said if he wanted to join, let him try out and if you guys like him, take a vote.Originally Posted by B_Witched
I didn't try out for OS - I asked Unbalanced if I could join and Shocker told me "no one ever asked to join us before..." I don't think you were actually in OS at the time...(you were hanging out on vent and doing practice but you were not doing pvp at the time
).
and we all know who got chaos king in os...
As for Chaos... I still blame you and miss to a lesser extent. -
Quote:1. The ladder was already established when many of the other leagues were ran. Ladder teams could schedule around it. It appears you want to start a mini league at the same time as the Ladder. That is creating a split. If you wanted to do so at different points in time, then it isn't a problem and one can work around the other.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
So all the other leagues and pvp events in the past while the old ladder was running split the communities? Really? I find that hilarious. When I was on test (and yeah I know vinnie I was on garbage teams that didnt count) I also participated in tvplp or whatever it was called for two seasons and a league on Pinnacle at the same time. I partipated in every PVPEC event or random event that happened on any server I happened to have toons on at the same time. It wasn't that hard. I still had time to play the game, have a real life etc. More pvp = more fun. Being several on my test team and other test teams did the exact same thing I know I wasn't the only one or that this is a hard concept to wrap your mind around.
2. What makes you think every new player is like you and willing to do multiple leagues? Or has multiple toons ready to PvP with in various different locations.
3. What makes you think every new player is like you and has the time to do multiple leagues?
It isn't rocket science. Most new PvPers are less than casual PvPers and they don't have the same access as the more hardcore PvPers, even casual PvPers, do. Hell, I don't even have access to a lot of toons/IO's/time and I'm considered hardcore by most. -
Quote:Like I said earlier, some ladder groups are like what you're implying and some aren't. If you're worried about new players riding the bench in officials, they should if the goal is to win. They should be practicing to improve and earn their spot to start. That's the most logical approach for a team that wants to win. Not all teams do that or are like that.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
I agree 100%. I think people got tired of reading all the TLDR posts to know what the conversation was about. I said we should have the test ladder and a mini-freedom ladder. The mini-freedom ladder being a doorway for new pvpr's and people that are not good enough to get on a test team as an avenue to get better. Also would provide a constant new supply of new blood for the test ladder as people left.
Some peoples opinon was that would conflict with the ladder and it was a bad idea and not needed because all of those new pvprs and people that are not good enough yet to get on a team would be able to join the ladder teams or make their own team. As if ladder teams have always been some huge welcome wagon or something and getting on a team was simple.
People have different opinions. It all really doesn't matter because people will participate in what they want to, and won't if they don't.
There were several teams that started from a group of new PvPers and many of them had some success. What you're suggesting with running mini ladders while the ladder is active is simply splitting the community with two leagues to compete in. What makes you think your mini ladder won't have the same issues/results as the ladder these guys are trying to get going? There will always be someone better and those that can't keep up will be benched, regardless of which league they're in. It would only make more sense to have a single league where this occurs instead of two. At least with one league, there will be more people to give advice. -
Quote:lol I know. It happened as I said "don't die guys".Originally Posted by Vertistic
I remember in the last Renegade vs GMW official Avid was like the only one we killed and he was on a fort.... jus' sayin
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Quote:I'm not trying to defend Vince here but Vince wasn't very good when he started. I used to think he was terrible back in the day. Look where he is now. It took him a while to get to where he is now. And that's how it should be.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Lol.
But were you terribad? Did you suck? Did you get farmed? You getting to play is irrelevant to the topic. I was referring to people that are totally new, are terribad etc. I wasn't saying those people didn't get to play at all. I said their play time was limited and very situational based on who the matches were against or how the previous match went. That more often than not someone terribad or brand new to pvp or the game would get very little actual match time if any. Either way though because my teams were garbage as I said you would say, you must be right.
All of you arguing so strongly against other conflicting events while the ladder is stabilizing or claiming that the ladder was noob/terribad friendly and welcoming to new pvprs....I sure do hope to see those open arms to the new pvpr's/terribad pvprs when the opportunity arises.
Teams that have starters will play their starters in officials. Those same teams will play everyone else in practice. If the newbie can prove themselves, then they can earn a starter spot. It isn't a hard concept to understand. -
Quote:There may have been groups that only played their starters but any team I lead wasn't like that. I played everyone that was in OS and even gave every person interested in joining OS a chance to try out (whether or not they got in depended on a team vote). That's just the way I lead the group. Example: I let Rick and Jimmay try out and left their fate to a vote. Even Chaos King got a chance and I still nerdrage to Jimmay every chance I can about that one.Originally Posted by vindizzLe
Every single test team you played on was garbage.
Velocity was the first test team I ever joined, I started in the first officials I was eligible for (the ladder's inception) immediately.
Plenty of players that joined when I did were also given the opportunity to play. They may not have started, but they played. There were plenty of teams on test that rotated in other players on their roster during officials.
Hell, I got stuck therming with Johnny Wildfire while we were both in VORI. And Kaiserin was online and ready to play.
Don't tell me what's bull and what isn't, you've never played for anyone worth mentioning. Case closed.
That being said, I'd be interested in joining a team but I don't plan on leading one. -
Or just make names tied to globals.
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I might be interested if I can get my MM ready by then...
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I'm interested but I don't have a team nor do I want to lead one.
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Quote:That depends on if you mean Test Ladder SGs or PuG teams. I've done plenty of matches with him in PuG matches. He was never interested in ladder matches so he didn't do them.Originally Posted by Silit
Not to be a dick, but, has anyone riding the Peritus bandwagon actually played in a test 8v8 with Peritus radding on their team?
No? Ok. -
Ever since I joined the Renegades the only lineup switch we've ever done was change Max from a regen stalker to an EA stalker. Not as big a deal as mixing up a tank and brute...
As for running off "team Renegades" I didn't know that 3 people in the former group made this new team the new Renegades. If that were the case, can we call other teams the new JAL, Velocity, UJL, GMW, etc and laugh about the jokes they all were too?
Getting back on topic... limiting lineups is always a bad idea. It's bad enough that i13+ did most of that for you, no need to add to it. -
not sure but he needs to try harder
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Quote:You're talking about the test ladders. We're talking about test leagues that were similar to this. Each league had as many, if not more, than this does and did weekly matches. The first 2 each had more participation then this.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Ok let me reword it because yes the way I worded it makes it a false statement.
Participation is on a bigger scale. There are 2 fight nights a week. 6 Rosters of d8's (basically like ladder teams) that are actually active people and not 30 people on a roster but only 8 ever show up. Fights happening weekly rather than once or twice a month. All teams participating all the time. I can remember spans of time on test where a month or 2 went by that no teams faught. I don't know about back before I6, maybe it was way more active.
Plus 6 D6 teams (Tvplp, but neither season had nearly as many signups) that are fighting weekly.
Not trying to make it out to be some huge extravaganza was just stating that comparing it to past individual leagues or even the ladder was not a fair comparison. -
Quote:I highly doubt what you're claiming. But like I said, if its true, kudos.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Yes it is. Basically the participation numbers are the old test ladder and the Tpvpl all wrapped up in one big event. Ty for the kudos, we were not looking for them though, just here to have fun.
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Quote:I'm not directly attacking you, as in you CriticalKat, I'm attacking you as in those that fall into the category of captain/participant and event coordinator. There are 3 of you that I know of, so this isn't directed at just you. I'm only replying to you because you're the only one that's mostly posting.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
There has been no conflict about me being a captain and PVPEC Leader. You were the first to mention it, and the one continuing to mention it. There has been no question to my integrity or me having influence in regards to rules etc.
You may have ran leagues before but not something like this. IF you think its simple then hop in and get your feet wet. Comparing a league that was for one server to a league that drew 90% of the pvpr's to it from across all 11 servers is a bit off. I have not had a moments peace to play this game with out some questions / drama /vote needing to be taken since the first day it was posted. Me, Peril and Silit. I am not crying a river about it because I do it for the benefit of everyone to have a good time. However you discounting the time and effort like its nothing is a bit wack. In fact your need to continue on and on about an event you are not even participating in is a bit wack too. Free country, do what you do best.
I don't collect the lineups for my teams matches, of course you wouldn't know that because you are not a participant. I can't change rules. I don't handle the draft. All of your points have no points. All being an event leader means is we do all the grunt work. Maintaining communication between teams that can't get along. Making sure the rules are followed. Handling motions for rule changes etc. We don't actually make any decisions we just do all the dirty run between waitress/bag boy/chauffer type bull crap that needs to be done. Being you don't think we should be doing this dirty grunt work you are more than free to join the PVPEC and be a neutral party and do it. Let me guess you don't care to be an actual solution to this fiasco that you claim is a problem?
That is niether here nor there. You think I shouldn't be a Captain and event Leader. So noted. Your thought process isn't changing anything. Moving on.
I didn't outright question anyone's integrity. I don't know who does what, I merely said that the possibility is out there due to the conflict of interest. There is plenty of drama already just from that alone... before I even started posting. That drama is only going to continue.
I'm not discounting any of your efforts, I said it isn't as exaggerated as you make it out to be. Let me get this straight, this single Freedom league is bigger than any past test league, or even the combined past leagues? If that's true, then kudos to you. -
Quote:Perhaps. I never mentioned anything about the original draft. I only spoke of the last, most recent draft. Your intentions and what actually occurred are the complete opposite. Excluding the vast majority of late sign-ups and allowing only a select few is not going to help PvP. If you're going to make exceptions for the late sign-ups, then it should apply for everyone, not just to specific people. If sign-ups were closed, then they should stay closed. It does suck for those short staffed teams, but don't you have rules saying 6v6 and only larger if there are enough? If 2 or even 3 of the 6 teams are short, 6v6 rule should apply (1/3 to half the league being short is a considerable amount of teams).Originally Posted by CriticalKat
That is exactly what this event was. I don't know how you keep missing the point that the original draft, everyone had to be added. The late signups were very well aware that they were late and that they may or may not get to be chosen to participate. Perhaps you should go check that thread out.
Not one time has anyone blamed the captains for jack. What I am saying is that if they have a problem with something any and all of them are allowed and able to make a motion for it to be changed. No one did, no one does so not sure why people who are not Captains are not going to their Captains and asking them to make these motions for rule changes if they are so important.
Let me give you a little bit of history since you have been gone a while. A Freedom League sat on the PVPEC boards for almost an entire year. A completed event ready to be posted. We held off for various reasons. One of those reasons is that every time we got ready to post it someone was on this very section of the boards "talking" about starting up the Ladder, League or some other sort of organized event. It NEVER got off the ground. Tons of people who are capable of doing it, didn't. Tons of people besides the PVPEC could have done it. They didn't.
Silit and Sneaky were attempting to do it on their own and for various reasons needed/wanted the PVPEC to run it. So here we are now. Months later of hard work and daily BS and aggrivation. None of us are looking for pats on the back. We just want a fun event and to pvp and rebuild pvp in this game. We would also appreciate a little slack. Yes we have made mistakes and will learn from them. However to be quite blunt to put up with all the ******** from people that could run this crap themselves in the first place is a bit tedious. To be told that I shouldn't be Captain when I have invested a gazillion hours in to this is a direct slap in the face. I cannot possibly in any way change or add any rules without, FIVE, count them FIVE other team Captains in aggreement. Peril doesn't even have a vote. I don't know how much more clear things can be.
Every single time something was questioned, you shifted it towards the captains saying the captains chose this or that. To me, that's shifting responsibility onto them. However, in your case, you're both a captain and event moderator. Where should your responsibilities fall under first?
I've run leagues in the past and they aren't as difficult as you make it out to be. The only difficult part might be getting it advertised on the updater and keeping count of the sign-ups. I know it sucks to organize such an event then not be able to participate in it. As it stands now, your participation in the league as a captain and as the event coordinator only causes more drama. It could affect rules, drafting, and even lineup submissions (you could wait until you have their lineup then submit a counter). Whether it does or doesn't, I don't know. The simple fact that the conflict exists is what started all of this. -
Quote:As I said earlier, you have 3 choices. You made your choice, so deal with the consequences.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Are you willing to join the PVPEC and run things because if not this is a moot point.
You are entitled to your opinion. I am not stepping down from either and Captains opinions are the only relevant ones anyways. Furthermore who the hell thinks its fair for us to do all these months of work and not get to particpate in whatever capacity we want to? On a side note Peril is not a Captain of a team and he is the one this drama has to do with so these points are not relevant to the topic.
If any of you complaining about the PVPEC being Captains would like to step up and join the PVPEC to help then I might consider changing who is running things. Until then we have no one else active enough that wants to. Really the PVPEC ***** fest is getting old. NOT ONE SINGLE ONE OF YOU EVEN REMOTELY ATTEMPT TO DO ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE IN REGARDS TO GETTING PVP EVENTS SUCH AS THIS OFF THE GROUND. The fact that you have the nerve to ***** and complain and have done nothing productive to make crap happen for the community looks way worse than me or peril being allowed to Captain teams if we want to.
There may be people willing to run this event but they definitely aren't willing to join the PvPEC. The damage is already done at this point. Complaining isn't adding any more to what's already out there except to bother you. Take it from someone who's moderated and been apart of past leagues, all you can do now is take this as a learning experience for the next time. -
Quote:Perhaps. Willing or forced to play? I believe there is a rule on this. Whether or not he tries is another story.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
That isn't exactly a fair question to play the devil's advocate here. First of all from what I understand the player in question is more than willing to play for Silit's team. Even if they were not taking a player that you know another team wants that has a very good skill level is a tactical and very legal move. Is it a dick move? Perhaps. That is irrelevant though.
Perhaps. Cherry picking the better players/builds and leaving everyone else out to dry, some of which transfered toons over. Isn't this league intended to embrace players by combining veterans with the lesser experienced? You shouldn't advertise an event as such if it really isn't.Quote:Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Regardless of what Perils intentions were, it was not allowed. A draft happened. Players who signed up did so knowing what the rules are. This is kind of like a car salesman saying "I give you a 3 year warranty" and you purchase the car and the written contract says "no warranty" that you signed. Both sides have to take some responsibility in this. Peril already admitted he did intend on assigning characters but Captains did not allow it. Take your responsibility in the deal gone bad and lets move on.
All I see is a lot of blame being put on the captains. Over and over again, it's the captains fault. Aren't some of the event coordinators capatains in this league? Where does your responsibility fall? Talk about a conflict of interest. -
Quote:Perhaps. I said you have choices. 3 total: 2 that will avoid a lot of the drama, 1 that may cause more.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Sorry I am not generous enough to donate all this ******* time and aggrivation and not get to participate in pvp. There are no other PVPEC reps to have created this or to run this. News flash we do this to not only help promote pvp but to actually have some to PARTICIPATE in. You are not a team captain. If your team captain would like a rules change then they are free to make a motion for one. Until then opinions are exactly that.
As far as the draft, valid points. We made a decision that we thought it was fair to atleast let a few more play on the teams that had room or needed more. I guess we could have been consistantly tough on all the teams that needed help and said tough titty and just not give a few more the opportunity to participate. Again a moot point because its done now and if any Captain wanted it to not be done that way they could have spoken up.
I'm not on a team, nor did I sign-up in time. I'm just telling you how I see it as both a veteran PvPer and an observer of this event.
The last draft only gave a select few the opportunity to participate. Most of them already seem to be involved in PvP. You advertised this event to promote PvP yet we're excluding new people in favor of the more experienced (or those with better builds).
edit: To touch a little more on the draft. No one who wants to win will willingly take/choose some random newbie. If the intention of this event was to promote PvP by embracing "the noobs", it is your duty as event coordinators to make teams take them. What you've done instead is the complete opposite. -
Quote:Perhaps. From what I've seen, it doesn't look to be unbiased. You have 2 options here if you want to avoid the shitstorm from people that care. 1) quit your team or 2) quit being the event moderator and have another unrelated PvPEC member take charge. I would opt for option 2. No matter what you do, if you stay as both a participant and moderator, there will be no true fairness and people will be calling you out on it. Even if you tried being fair and unbiased, people are already starting drama over it. This goes from rules down to draft ordering. You can argue all you want but it won't change how people feel especially when they already don't think too highly of the PvPEC/certain event coordinators.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Perhaps. Six teams and six captains have the right to make any motion they want. If any of them want to, they will. Only takes all 6 to be in aggreement to change things.
As far as the draft, already done and apparently the 6 team captains didn't feel that way or one would have asked for it to be done differently.
What are you telling all those undrafted people that were interested? "Sorry you weren't drafted. We choose a late sign-up over you and no one else wants you." That's really promoting PvP right there. Way to prove to the community how exclusive we are. -
Quote:It doesn't matter if you were associated with the league when the rules were made. The fact that you are now is the issue. I haven't been following this since the beginning so I don't know the exacts but if any of what I said is true. Then you have a problem.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Perhaps valid. 2 problems with that though. First of all neither of us were associated with the League when the rules were made. They were made before any teams signed up. Second of all it takes a Captain vote from each of the 6 (SIX) teams, and all 6 must be in agreement for a vote change to happen. There have been no random edits or making of votes since they were posted in their original form, so not sure where you got that from.
As for the draft, if there are any late sign-ups, they should either A) all be allowed/drafted or B) none of them. -
Quote:Bringing up an old post... From what I can tell of the last draft, this did not happen. What did happen was this: captains were given an option to choose additional players if they wanted more. Everyone that didn't get picked (those with poor builds from what I can tell) was told better luck next time. So much for the purpose of this event.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
This format is designed to make both the hardcore pvp'r happy, and the new pvp'r happy. This is a combo ladder/league. Teams will organize, a few already are. They will put up their roster just like on test. Then they will draft out of what is left that signed up.
The PVPEC has to put together events that embrace the new pvp'r. This event is not only meant to embrace them, but is also designed to make it where the Veterans teach them. Where its in their best interest to do so. If your Division 8 team does not mentor and help the Division 6 team then you will not win the season no matter how good your "stacked" Division 8 team is. -
I'll make accusations of foul play. This league has been all wrong from the moment the event organizers became participants.