WraithTDK

OOC: the guy who screwed-over my character wasn't on the COH boards. It was back in the day when AOL was king of the internet, and Marvel and DC and everybody big had their main site exclusively there.

heh, looking at the net now, it's hard to believe that there was a time when the web was the "second-stringer" place to have your internet presence.

The eye roll was indeed for your name. It still seems a bit silly, but it certainly makes a lot more sense with your back-story. It's still gonna be hard not looking at it and picturing you running around screaming about DBZ, though.

IC:

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IC: Night Raven, according to you I'm not a hero cause i don't save little old ladies crossing the street. Aww TFB baby!!! I'm stuck with my fate same as you, if i wanna go slaughter gangbangers for fun and amusement I will. In fact sounds like a fun thing to do friday nite - anybody with me?

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How you deal with people who prey on the innocent is your business. The Night Watchmen aren't exactly known for being gentle. But when you apply the same treatment to people just because you don't like their style of fighting MONSTERS, you're no better than the gang-bangers you battle.

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As for protecting the city, i never said i actually did that - now did I. If by some fluke of my actions innocents are saved, so be it. If they are harmed, so be it. Bottom line the only thing that matters is ME, MYSELF and I. If you can't understand that, then maybe you should get your head checked boy scout.

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So help me, if I hear you're hurting innocents in my city, I WILL come for you.

OOC: You should seriously switch sides with this character when COV comes out.

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Do you really think the silly little mundanes appreciate you? No, they appreciate saftey, security and comfort. That's all - they don't care a lick if you live or die. They don't care if any of us live or die. Deal with it.

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I don't care. I'm not Gamble. I'm not in this for the accolades. The citizens of this city don't believe I exist. They think I'm the boogie man. And that's how I like it. It's how I work best.

OOC: I think we've found the Virtue server's Magnito!

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OOC: You're 100% wrong about getting exp for the work you put in in situations like this. In a well balanced group you might have a controller, defender, few others. Several of which do no damage but are doing things like locking the mob down, healing people, buffing, debuffing, etc.

Meanwhile another group of 5 blasters comes along. You're saying they do more work, because all they're doing is damage?

Get a clue man. You don't get xp for the work you put in, you get xp for the damage you put in. They're very different things. Frankly, from a totally out of character standpoint, the 2nd group that came in were a bunch of [censored] and they got what they deserved. From an in character stand point, they got taught a lesson about playing with the big boys when you're still a little boy.

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Alright, then the people holding the monster wouldn't have gotten XP whether the Knight killed the thing or the other guys.

Still not seein a problem here.

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I think I finally figured out why KS bugs me so much. It's certainly not the XP loss-- minor, really! But all too often I have to endure the silly claims KS'ers make. You know, how they're always making it sound like they're doing something selfless, heroic, indisputably good for the world. Or worse yet, they argue that they're on your team somehow: like a Robin encroaching a little too eagerly upon my Batman's personal space.

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THAT would be annoying. I've never seen anyone do that, though. If they did, were they doing in IC? If so, it's perfectly feasible. If I was superman, and I saw Booster-Gold fighting Metallo, I'd swoop down and help, whether Booster was winning or not.

OOC

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from the RP perspective - NO ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL ANYONE ELSE A RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO RP THEIR CHARACTER!! So by default all IC RP posts are correct. That is the way someone wants to RP their character. Some people wanna be like Superman, some like Lobo, some like Magneto. There is no 'right' way to RP.

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Couldn't disagree more.

First of all, there are some people who don't understand general RP concepts (this does NOT applying to Gamble, I'm just making a point). For example, I had one person in another board (coincidently another "733t kid" who thought numbers for letters was cute for people over the age of eleven) write an RP story for a game we were all involved in, and in his story, my character bumbled around like a fool, turned evil, and then was decapitated.

From there, you've got two options: you can declare that his RP was completely inapropriate, or I could give up my hard-earned character.

Secondly, my responses to Gamble's RP was IN CHARACTER. Matthew Young has can't tell the Knights of Paragon "hey, that was a punk thing to do", but The Night Raven does as he pleases. The Night Raven exists in the same world as The Knights, and it's no different for HIM to talk to The Knights as it is for ME to talk to Gamble. Part of RPing is accepting that different characters have different viewpoints, and it's no more inapropriate for MY character to argue with HIM then it is for Captain America to argue with The Punisher.

IC:

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To all you others - don't tell me or any one else how to be a hero. I didn't ask to be a hero.

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Then you'll be relieved to know that you're not.

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I didn't ask for powers.

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Powers don't make you a hero. Heroism makes you a hero. And letting an innocent get sent to the hospital so that you can get a parade isn't heroism.

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I didn't ask to protect this city.

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Oh, really? Who forced you to do it?

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And I certainly didn't ask anyones opinion on how to do it!!

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I don't care what you asked for. I say what I wanna say.

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I am cursed with my 'gift' and will make the best of it, but for those that try to meddle in my affairs - be warned!! Yes I tread a fine line between good and evil - but don't we all. Or are you all really that big of boy scouts? yeah, didn't think so

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Leaving innocents to be slaughtered so that you can get your name in the paper isn't "walking the line" it's jumping right over it.

OOC

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CURS3D K40S - High Prophet of Sanity's Edge (virtues most insane and tortured supergroup)

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:::eye roll:::

You reak of ego.

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My point is, while you might say "personal glory is the path to villainy," another often traveled path to the same destination is believing you are "better" than the average man in that you are infalliable and only YOU know the true difference between right and wrong.

I'm sorry, my friend, but I've known way too many villains who believed that they weren't in it for the glory at all, but to "make things right for mankind..." Anyone believing "they know best" how to set the rules for EVERYONE is walking a slippery slope...

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I know. Now, if only there was a set of rules set up for the people, BY the people. If only there was a system setup where the people voted on certain issues, and, according to majority view, those things became rules that carried punishments if violated.

Why, if such things existed, we could use them as guidelines for who was a criminal and who was a citizen....

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OOC:

Plainly put me me, that was our kill. We had him held and were well past halfway done. It was our member Gamble that had him held, which was the only way that he was going to be beat.

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Well, then you're still gonna get the majority of the XP, aren't you?

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Trust me, when or if you ever face the Kraken, he packs a massive punch. THe key to our eventual victory was Gamble being able to keep him from running amuck and squashing us.

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Well, then they shared some of that emense risk, and yours was lowered.

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We asked the other group to leave the kill, and they chose not to.

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Were you playing a police drone at the time, signalling authority in the game? No? And they STILL ignored you? They STILL beat up on bad guys put there to be beat on?

Imagine that. The nerve.

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So, whether you think it was right or wrong, a trophy kill like that was a matter or pride to us.

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Someone remind me,

What was it that cometh before a fall again?

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Has anyone had better results? Any tips or tricks on keeping IC and cool-- no pun intended-- when getting KS'd?

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Here's one: realize you're still getting XP equal to the work you put in, and it's just not that big a deal.

Dang. I was so hoping for an "Are You Afraid Of The Dark" referance.

We still have the following openings:

Blasters: 10 openings
Controllers: 9 openings
Defenders: 10 openings
Scrappers: 8 openings
Tankers: 10 openings
Dedicated healers: 10 openings

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and we are not Gods or Angels who know right from wrong INFALLIBLY...

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I know a dude with a hammer and a guy with Wings and a flaming sword who are going to kick. Your. Butt.

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Color me possessive, but when I'm trouncing a thuglet, that bastich is mine until I KO him and let the fuzz cart him off. I get pretty riled when some smart-aleck thinks *I* need help and does the KO'ing for me. Maybe it's that I look like a civvie, or because I'm short, but I can handle myself just fine, and I get pretty pissed when someone jumps in when I obviously have the situation under hand.

The KoP obviously had the control; it's not their fault some uppity Statesman-wannabe punks decided to take the easy way into getting a rep. 'Cuz that's what it looks like to me; KoP had the Kraken, and these other guys wanted the glory the KoP were working for. Sure, lots of heroes get the job done quicker, but not everyone is as nobly-inclined as you, Raven. They may have wanted to help, but Gamb said the chappies ignored the "Hey, we got it!" calls. That smacks of greediness to me, and last I checked, avarice was a sin.

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What matters is that the job gets done. HOW it’s done should be of secondary concern.

Greed, and the need for personal glory is the path to Villainy.

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all heroes have a price whether it be some warm fuzzy feeling they get for helping someone or cold hard cash.


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My reward is the cracked and bloody face of the punk I just crushed.

-Davis Slate

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That's fine. Here's the question though: would you stop BEFORE that face was properly crushed because you didn't think the Paragon City Booster Club was gonna give you a frikin parade?

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IC:
Don't scoff at them just because they wanted the glory of their fight, all heroes have a price whether it be some warm fuzzy feeling they get for helping someone or cold hard cash.

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The difference is that doing what we do because it needs to be done isn't a motivation that THREATENS anyone. OUR motivations don't lead us to ABANDON a battle while there are still villains rampaging and THREATENING LIVES.

Just be thankful their price was cheap. If you enforced your standards on all the heroes protecting this city, Paragon would be nothing but a smouldering ruin. High ideals don't win battles, numbers, strategy and pure tenacity do. OUR motivations don't cause us to abandon those in need when we don't get our way.

If Paragon wanted that type of hero, we would have paid for the Freedom Corps back when they wanted to be on the city pay roll.

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As for the greenhorns that got smoked, they'll survive alot longer in Paragon if they learn to listen to the guy holding the rock prison together, whether they like what he says or not.

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Yea, those stupid fools, they saw the fabled "Knights of Paragon" and should have KNOWN that they'd TURN TAIL AND RUN on them because they weren't gonna get their name in the papers. :::spits:::

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But then on the flip side, or the gamer POV, this was totaly justified and fair. Remember all you RPers, though its a wonderful and great game and a fun one to RP in, it's still an Massive Mulitplayer Online Game, one that you get higher and more skills from earining "XP" from "Kills". THIS is how you advance you're character, and THIS is how we all in the end will play the game.

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Yea, but you STILL get XP if the other person off the villia. You get an amount equal to how much work you did. You may get less because they helped, but the risk, the effort, and the time spent is also lowered, which is what you GET the XP for. It's not like UO where only the person who offs the thing gets the loot.

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And before you shout and scream that I am totaly wrong let me ask you this: How many of you would even bother to spend an hour or 3 of you're time online in Atlas Park killing ONLY GREY mobs just for the fact that you are "Helping the city out" and doing you're "Job".

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I still wack the level 1's if they're mugging people. I feel guilty if I run past someone screaming for help.

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In the end its a game, thats how it breaks down.

Was letting the other team die rude? Yes. Was it deserved? Everybody has their opinion. But people, if the other team ninja-killed a boss and got all of YOUR hard earned credit for it, and I'm not talking about the RP "Newspaper" credit, but the XP credit, wouldn't YOU be upset?

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Yea, I'd be angry because it would mean they had hacked the game somehow. Because with the current system, I'd still get XP equal to how much work I did.

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What if you needed those 500xp to level, only to have it stolen from you by a group that took the kill?

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I'd still get it. Because I did the most damage. If I didn't, then I wouldn't really have much to whine about, and I'd STILL get XP for doing ANY damage.

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I'm sure you wouldn't be too happy.

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Happens quite a bit. I honestly don't care.

Perspective: it's good for you.

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The key thing here, IN MY OPINION, was the fact that it was stated that the group in question actually told the other group to back off. If this did not happen, then it would probably be a different story.

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Yes, but it was a RP story. If Batman had told Superman to get out of "his city" (as he often does), and then the joker pulled some Kryptonite and had Supes against the ropes, do you think Batman would just leave Superman at his mercy?

OFCOURSE NOT! And why? Because Batman is a HERO. And heroes don't do that.





You avatar frightens me.

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Also, I am not this much of a jackass in real life (although some would disagree.) This is just my way of role-playing this character. I happen to have another character that is very happy go lucky, just in case someone decides to "tear me a new one" based on my personality.

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Ooc: Yea, just so we're clear, I'm not actually this pissed off in real-life. Matthew Young just thinks it's silly. Night Raven is pissed.

Back to in-character

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Maybe that’s what it means to be a hero in this town to you, but not to me. Where were the heroes when I needed them the most? About 3 months too late to do any good. I had to use my own strength to break free from my Freakshow captors after being stabbed, slashed, and used as a guinea pig for their experimental drugs. And that’s nothing any 15-year-old boy should go through. My mission is simple: to make sure nothing of that sort happens to another child, another elderly person, another mother of four. One way to do that is make sure that the heroes of the future are fit to fulfill that role. Fitness in this case not only implies physical prowess, but also intelligence, both of which the invading group was lacking.

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O.k., let’s turn this back on you. What if heroes DID come to your rescue? What if there WAS a team fighting their way into where you were being held, not knowing you were kidnapped, but clearing out a criminals. What if a different group of heroes came in and started fighting, and that first group decided “there’s no glory here, let’s go”? You would have spent even longer being experimented on.

If your goal is to ensure that no one ever has to go through what you did, then you shouldn’t care who helps. Those other heroes cared more about getting the job done than their own safety. You left them to their fate.

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Humility is a virtue, however to be a Knight implies nothing about following a specific "code of honor." All our knighthood implies is that we share a common ideal of mutual assistance.
And I believe it was quite virtuous of us to warn the invaders to leave our claim alone. We gave them proper warning, and they understood the consequences of their actions. 'Nuff said there.

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Your “claim”.

You’re more mercenary than hero. Just what we need.

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The low-down is thus - in Gamble's place, I woulda done the same thing. Why? 'Cuz it's just not polite to jones in on someone else's fight. Unless the KoP wanted the help, the other group shouldn't have tried to capitalize on the situation. It's not glory-hounding, it's simple semantics.

Oh, and those other heroes didn't buy the farm. If they were good boys and girls, they got their medi-patches, and got whisked away to the local medical center. So don't make it sound like Gamble went and turned a simple rout into a slaughter; those other chappies survived. Maybe now, they'll understand not to take advantage of other people.

Props, Gamble.

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Taking advantage of people? THEY WERE FIGHTING EVIL. Lives were at stake. We should WELCOME assistance from ANYONE. The more fighting, the faster the fight, the fewer innocents are gonna wind up injured or dead.

A HERO puts the safety of the citizens of his city before his own pride and need for personal glory.

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After reading the recent replies, I think both points of view have merit (hopefully this doesn't sound too much like fence-sitting) but I think the distinction here is between game play and role play perspectives.

From a game play aspect I see Gamble's point. We desire to discourage certain "anti-social" behaviors in our fellow players with the hope that everyone follows the commonly accepted rules of courtesy, fair play, etc. I'm sure everyone has multiple stories of "jerky" players (omitting stronger language here) who break the usual rules of custom and since there is no one else to enforce them (i.e. the system or Devs as it were) we take it upon ourselves as players to do so. I'm guessing that was what was happening here with Gamble (feel free to correct me).

From an RP standpoint, no decent, law abiding, and above all "good" hero would allow someone to die just to prove a point (Wraith's assertion I believe), and acting as such certainly could start one down that slippery slope...

So I suppose the question I would ask is: which dynamic do we follow- game play or role play?

I'm curious what others in the forum think.

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Out of character post:

I think that people make WAY too big a deal about kill-stealing, considering the way the XP system works (you still GET the XP for the damage you've DONE, and while the amount DOES get lowered by the interference, so does the risk, which is what you're PAYING for the XP).

From a gaming standpoint, it's silly. But if you're GOING to get mad about it? At least accept the fact that it's purely a gaming issue. Because from a roleplaying/RP standpoint, it just doesn't make ANY sense at all.

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Ok, being the Field Marshall of Freedom Factor, I thought this might be somewhat a security issue that all should here.

During the Ritki invasion there were quite a few Lost assisting the aliens. It also needs to be mentioned, The Lost always seem to be utilizing Ritki technology. Some of the very mutations of these Lost seem to resemble some of the Ritki I witnessed as well.

To further complicate things, I think Dr. Vahlzilok may actually being funded by the Skulls. Every where I go there seems to be Skulls with the walking dead? What's up with that?
Oh well, that's my observations so far.
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Dwarf Star
Field Marshall of Freedom Factor, Virtue Server

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The skull connection is doubtfull. I have seen the Vahz preying on the skulls for "parts" quite a few times.

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I believe you did the right thing. Each of us should stand and fall on our own strengths (strength of character included in this list). Having been properly warned, the other team should have backed off, or if they desired to persist taken on the beast themselves (which is exactly what you facilitated there).

We all desire to improve the common good for the citizens of Paragon City, but we are also human (at least in the most general sense) and it is human to enjoy the recognition we receive that comes from doing good deeds in the free exercise our own powers.

A sharp lesson for that group, but a necessary one. Perhaps next time they will reconsider interfering, pain is an efficient teacher.

-Gravotus (unaffiliated at present)

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This is why the Watchmen don't stick around after our battles.

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In a word... yes. I take necessary risks to help these civilians, so why shouldnt I expect a little notoriety in return?

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This is precisely why the statesman was against the Freedom Corps coming to Paragon City.

Why shouldn’t you? Because that’s not what being a hero is about. Being a hero is about doing what’s right. It’s about not giving a crap if you’re loved my millions, or hunted like an animal. We do what we do because it needs to be done, and that should be all the reason we need.

You call yourselves Knights. A knight should know that humility is a Virtue.

Besides which, your duty is to safeguard lives, even if you don’t necessarily like that person. You left those heroes to die because you were afraid you wouldn’t get into the paper. You sicken me.

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Why do I think this way? Is it greed? Possibly. I must admit that the appeal of being recognized by citizens on the street is quite fulfilling. But I believe my ideals of what this so-called City of Heroes could become are far more complex than that.

Basically, those weak-bodied heroes had it coming, and I was just catalyzing the process. Thinning out the pack, if you will. What makes a hero strong? By pushing themselves to the limit. They may hate me now, but the citizens will thank me later for the stronger heroes that come to fill the fallens place.

Life is sometimes not about calculated risks. I have had to gamble my health, my honor away at some points, but in the end, I have become stronger than I ever imagined possible.

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This sounds all too familiar. Taken from the Freedom Phalanx’s history files:

Many of the super villains that arose during the late forties and early fifties were actually veteran heroes who had fallen on hard times. While lauded across the land as heroes, for some the pride of patriotism was not reward enough. They had come to see themselves not as protectors of the common man, but as superior beings. And as superior beings these greedy souls felt the world owed them more than anyone else. In fact, they felt it owed them whatever they could take for themselves, by whatever means they chose.

Your priorities are completely out of whack. I have a feeling you’re going to be trouble. And that’s why I’m going to be watching you. I will NOT let you turn Paragon into a City of Villains

10. Don -not- under ANY circumstances, ask them about Elvis.

Don't ask, just trust me. It's kinda a sore subject.

So, let me get this straight. A monster is rampaging. Innocents are in danger. Additional heroes step in, which would surely bring an even faster end to a menace that is threatening innocents.

But your pride and need for personal glory overwhelms you, and you decide to let a group of people who COULD have saved who knows how many lives be KILLED.

Typical.

What we do isn't about getting your name in the paper. It's about saving lives.

I stick to the shadows for a reason

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A good start, but I must ask, exactly why did he choose "Night Raven" as an alias? Is there a particular reason, or did he just sort of make it up one day?

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[/i]He didn't. That was given to him. My in-game profile reads like this:

The Night Raven is not real. He does not exist. He is a myth. An urban legend; thought up by parents to keep their children from getting into trouble, and spread by the authorities to instill fear in the hearts of criminals.

They say he is a living shadow. A Wraith. A force that hunts his prey in the night like a rabid wolf on the trail of a rabbit. A creature with a mission of justice, and a voice of silence.

He is not real.

So what is it you're looking at?[/i]

Originally, I wanted to call him "Wraith". He was CALLED Wraith on the Beta servers. If you were around for the end of the beta, you know what happened with names. If not, let's just say there were problems and I had to do some tweaking.

Anyway, I haven't really decided if the name itself should be tied to some old Urban legend of Paragon City that he just kind of adopted as his identity, or if he took on the name for reasons he doesn't full understand (a reminant of a possible memory).

You jump from the escape of the experiment, to Night Raven being a superhero. What happened during the time between these two events that brought him to donning an alias and costume, and joining the war against forces of evil?

You're right. I should fill this in. And I will. Just have to do some thining about that one.

Edit:

[/i]Also, you say he has augmented strength and speed...how did the effects come about from Supes? If the experiment was to enhance the ability to see through to other dimensions to the point of being able to pass to those dimensions, how did his body become stronger and faster? [i]

The portals were a side-effect of the drug. Superadine, or "Supes" as they called it, was a derivitive of the Super-Soldier drugs made in WWII. I didn't put this in the origin because it's all available in the game's back-story. That section from the Freedom Phalanx files is taken directly from the City History . I thought it would be a cool way to tie my character in to established continuity.

As I said, normally the effects of the drug were temporary. The stuff they tried on Night Raven was an experimental, super-potent version, and, for whatever reason it didn't kill him, the powers stuck.

I'm hoping to keep this group as much of an RP group as possible, though we WILL take respectful non-RP'ers.

In adition to the usual perks of being in a supergroup, all Night Watchmen get:

A Night Watchmen e-mail address. Every Watchman gets a fully-hosted, POP3 e-mail address. The address will be yourheroesname@thenightwatchmen.com webmail service is also available.

A profile page. All Watchmen get a page on www.thenightwatchmen.com that will display a picture of your hero, as well as your stats and other information. Check the "member profiles" page for examples. Pages are customizable, and people with good HTML skills may request FTP access to put up their own content (user-made content subject to approval).

For full details, see http://www.thenightwatchmen.com/jointhewatch.htm