Alyssa_NA

You'll want stamina first, then acro.

End useage works this way for me: Running BA, PS, FS and 1 toggle (CJ) eats up end but allows for SLIGHT regen. When you start Burning, your End will SLOWLY go down.

Add Acrobatics, and your end is toast. It actually starts decreasing (gradually). Add Tough and it starts to stack up and your end goes down quickly.

With Stamina with one slot, you're good to go with all toggles running and having a decent end regen. Stamina first, or you'll have a harsh level where you are trying to run toggles but loosing end.

Your bind for turning shields on will not work properly. Binds do not allow for stacked commands (activate 3 powers). When you do this, it activates the last power on the chain. But you'll find that out.

I just put them at the end of my active power tray, and when needed, I just hit the number corresponding. At level 32, I have 7 toggles to run (PS, FS, BA, CJ, Tough, Weave, Acrobatics). I suggest just leave them running. Log in, turn them on. It's really messy when you jump into a mob and don't have one thing or the other active.

ALL fire tank builds (built for pure tanker and not scanker or scrapper-tank or whatever) will be the same up to level 30-ish.

Attacks are just switched out with the level 16 attack, and final two in the line (generally, not sure about ice and stone melee).

EM is great with single-target damage but long recharge. So far, I've made it to 32 with the build and have managed to just get Wirling hands, which is an excellent AoE unslotted, and looks to be wonderful when fully slotted.

ET and TF will be used vs. bosses heavily, but only after Burn runs its course and gets rid of minions. To spam EM attacks would make endurance become a pretty heavy issue with all the toggles, even with Stamina. I've had to add Consume back into my build plan to ensure enough End recovery is present, due to the cost of WH alone.

Fire's going to have a couple of nice heavy hits, but it won't match the front-loaded damage that EM gives you. It's mostly DoTs and, while nice, there's just a few opponents (AVs, bosses, etc.) I wanted to be able to hit heavily.

Also note that your punchvoke will get bigger in sphere the more damage done. Buildup + ET or TF must give some pretty insane aggro from what I've seen thus far on EM tank builds in the 40s.

Yes. Attacks are inconsequential as long as you have the primaries and defenses in place. They are just icing on the burn cake.

[ QUOTE ]
great guide i am following it - just started a new fire/fire tanker and got him to lvl 10 in no time and its great fun!

question about your build:

why do you propose boxing at 10? you could move it to lvl 26 and therefore get stamina by 24 - or is there a drawback?


[/ QUOTE ]

Drawbacks are as follows:

At level 22, you start facing alot of foes that do more damage, and hence, you need more resistance to smash/lethal.

I last exponentially longer against large herds of Freaks and Sky Raiders with Tough than without. About this time, you'll also want Stamina, since running acro, FS, PS, and CJ actually puts you at a deficit of endurance when you start burning on top of those toggles.

By exponential, I mean 10-20 minutes longer than without Tough.

Running without Acro is very, very bad post-20 or so. KD is horrid and present in about 90% of your foes (mostly luteys and bosses).

Running without Stamina after 24-ish makes you VERY susceptible to toggle drops, especially when facing end-draining foes en masse.

Moral: Get Stamina for the added drain of more toggles. Get it by 22 latest. Get Acro next for knockdown. Lastly, Tough is needed to cap smash/lethal. Boxing is needed for Tough, so get it out of the way early so it's not an issue later.

Fire tanks are VERY tight builds for those who wish to actually tank, and not be glorified scrappers. VERY tight. There is one wiggle possibility, and that's Taunt. Anything else moved later reduces the effectivness of a tanker-type fire tank DRASTICALLY.

I've actually observed this firsthand, both from my tank (correct build) and 5 other fire tanks (incorrect builds) who I have teamed with.

I've also come to the conclusion that slotting anything BUT resistance in your shields is a BAD move. Each SO reduces damage by quite a bit. It makes a DRASTIC difference.

Also, one mistake I continually see or hear: more than 2 resists in Tough/Weave with 6-slotted FS is a complete waste. With 2, and +2 green SOs, you are in the 106% s/l resist bracket. You're at 98% with white (even) SOs. Just don't do it; only 1 or 2 foes reduce damage resistances and they are all post-40. Don't worry about it, it doesn't happen that often.

If you're not on the ground, it negates Burn.

Last plug on this (rather repetitve) thread.

I do not do any role as WELL as a fully-slotted version of what I am supposed to be.

But I come into my own much earlier.

Level 8 blasters vs. Level 8 Khelds? No contest.

Level 20 Tanks vs. Level 20 Khelds? No contest.

Level 30 scrapper vs. Level 30 Khelds? The only contest is perhaps DPS, but by then with a 3-form build, you've got the flexibility to outpace them on many accounts. Not all, but many.

Thing is, when you focus on just one form, it will limit your effectiveness.

Just like any other AT.

Bottom line: If you dislike playing such an AT, then don't play it. It's the reason I did not play a controller up to higher levels. Couldn't stand it. Controll without damage (until pets or somesuch) just never appealed to me.

3-form effectiveness earlier in levels doesn't appeal to you. I understand that, but don't label them gimp becuase of personal preferences. Say so in the post, because new khelds read this and immediately go "there's no hope" and never try to enjoy what's there.

I feel this way and stand on the soapbox because when I was level 48 and read these forums, I felt like I was getting shafted. I started a different normal AT instead.

Then I decided to make one for RP reasons, and I found them quite adaptable, fun, and versatile, and easily able to group. Most of my friends and those who picked me up for a mission felt the same way.

Also:

SP = shadow punch
SM = shadow maul
MG = midnight Grasp
DC = Dark Consumption
SD = Soul Drain
DB = Dark Blast
Pet Gaze or PG = Petrifying Gaze
TT= Tenebreous Tentacles
Int = Integration
IH = Instant Healing
QR = quick recovery
Recon = Reconstruction
FH = Fast Healing
MoG or mog = Moment of Glory. Also used to tell defenders or healers why a heal is not working on an upper-level Regen Scrapper.
Regen = regeneration secondary, or the rate at which your health returns.

As a side note:

Flamer (actually f-lamer) = Short for f**king lamer, someone who frequently picks arguments on a forum, creates upset, or insults those posting. A Flamer can usually be identified by the number of non-existent level 50 characters (toons) he possesses, the evident lack of knowledge of how things work in the end-game, and his supreme knowledge over something he has never done or tried before.

A flamer typically brings up parentage, makes a likeness to Hitler or Nazis, and insults the intellegence of those responding.

Damn straight. Every AT has weaknesses and strengths.

I learned my strengths and weaknesses as a scrapper, as a blaster, as a defender, and a kheld.

I've never complained about them to the degree I see on these boards. So yes, I feel obliged to make sure people know that khelds DO have a strength, and it is known about.

It jsut seems that the viewpoint gets so skewed with this talk of "you can't do a, b or c well", yet the magic is in that you can do all of them. Having played squishies and non-squishies, the power of turning from squishy to non-squishy seems to be seriously overlooked.

Speaking as "the ostrich" previously mentioned.

Note, I did not say there was nothing wrong. I said there was nothing wrong past the fixes going in on Test shortly.

Secondly, if you cannot grasp the concept that a Kheld can do 3 things, and decently (NOT as well as a pure AT) ON DEMAND, then you fail to grasp the concept of Kheldians.

NO OTHER AT CAN PERFORM 3 ROLES WELL ON DEMAND LIKE A KHELD.

Jeez, yes, true, I cannot do as much damage as a blaster at level 45. I cannot scrap as well as a scrapper at level 45. I cannot tank as well as a tanker at level 45.

But I can tank/blast/scrap alot better than them at lower levels, going up.

If ANY 50 is sitting here looking at "When I am level 50, Khelds will be t3h g1mp", you need to go back through the levels again.

Perhaps you will realize that level 50 is a JOURNEY, not a destination. ALL THE WAY UP, Khelds outperform in the roles that they assume.

Show me a blaster doing my DPS at level 23? Show me a tanker who has 85% resists at level 25, to everything but nictus and psi?

You can't.

I have made Level 25 (kheldian) grouping with others, friends, pickup groups and what have you. I have maxxed my friends list from NEW friends in the first 3 days (and most of those were low or mid-level players who teamed with me on a whim, others were alts of high-level friends, but most were immediately after a mission in which I served all three roles, and well).

Dude. I have no head in the sand. I solo'd my DM/Regen scrapper from level 1 in the Pre-I3 days where getting to level 31 was the goal, cause you stopped dying so much, and made it there with no reconstruction, 3 weeks part time.

No PL to get there, either. Lots of Task Forces, though.

I know this game well, and this is not the only toon I've played. I have a 22 Empath defender, a 25 blaster, another 21 blaster and 2 more scrappers of decent level. The only AT I do NOT have an Alt with is Controller.

Bottom line, I've played alot (since week 1 of retail) and done alot and seen alot in this game. I'm not claiming to be an expert.

But if I can make the AT work, and work well, shouldn't others be able to as well? I don't want radical changes or buffs to the khelds. They'll get overpowered. Then nerfed.

They are fairly well-balanced now. WS perhaps need some help on this and that, but otherwise, they work well.

I'm not the only one who makes them work well. I have played with at least 5 others and have read it from at least 30 others on these boards.

I've read 10 people with serious complaints, and they are the same 10 people.

If you can't play one, wait for the next EAT. Just stop knocking Khelds and trying to change them into something they are not. Or knocking those that CAN play one well.

It's sorta like not being able to play a blaster due to aggro mismanagement and then saying how gimp blasters are because you stink at playing them.

Playing a peacebringer, I have to say, my teammates are quite happpy with my performance.

Our strength lies in the fact that we can fill at different niche at different times in a battle.

Let's take this example:

Yesterday, I was in a Malta mission with my teammates (SK'd at level 25 to level 45 to play with my friends). At the outset, we had 3 defenders and 2 controllers with a fire tank.

Notably lacking was a blaster. I switched to nova form (2 main attacks six-slotted, form is 4-slotted) and was an admirable blaster. The fire tank burned minions and I dealt with bosses quite nicely and took them out of the picture fast.

But then, the fire tank had to go. While controllers at this level are anything but squishy, they did need someone to take initial aggro. So I switched to 5-slotted dwarf form, and pulled aggro. I can't keep all the aggro as well as a build designed for it, but I could shift forms and lay out an AoE, then switch back and tank for the controllers.

Needless to say, my teammates are very happy with my abilities, and they only get better later on with more slots.

I also solo well, having hte ability to lay out an AoE, switch to dwarf form and wreak havok without status effect worries, and then there's TWO self-heals.

Later on, I get glowing touch and a few pool powers that allow me to become a defender support role, aka Pulsar and Glowing Touch.

Now, others can make scrappers in the late-game that perform admirably as well, and some focus on just 2 forms (usually human/dwarf later).

However, for the groups I am part of, I fill both roles (damage dealer and aggro management) well enough that I can support the other ATs. I do it all with one package, though.

Sadly QuiJon, you seem hell-bent on calling the AT gimped instead of seeing that the STRENGTH of the AT lies in flexibility.

You'reery quick to point out that we do nothing BETTER than other ATs. While correct, can you think of a single tank that has (at level 25) 85% resists to all but TWO damage types? Didn't think so. Some tanks have smashing/lethal capped by that level, but unless they have no attacks whatsoever, they don't have ALL damage types capped.

We're weak because we have nictus as a Kryptonite? Not really. All you need is a controller, scrapper, blaster or tanker or defender who goes for Voids first. Unless it's a boss, it's down fast. And sad to state, most of the pickup teams I have been part of are only more than happy to defeat these foes for me after what I can lend to a group. Most of the time, I don't even need to call "Void!" or "Quantum!" to get it taken out of the picture; the players I team with just naturally take them out first.

I'm sorry if those who are disappointed in the Khelds cannot just let the rest of us enjoy the AT, or let others who start one enjoy it (or not) for themselves, instead of trying to change it into "their vision" of what "it should be".

It's fine the way it is, and does not need changing. Perhaps one of the other Epic ATs will be to your liking; if not, play a tank, blaster, scrapper or whatnot. Those need to get to 50 as well.

The Devs have NOT shorchanged us in this content post-50.

I guess this just goes to show you, "You can't make all the people happy all the time".

I jsut wish those with more vocal calls for changes would leave it alone. I enjoy it (as do many others) the way it is, I don't want a buff (just the announced changes are fine and balance things perfectly, IMO) or anything. Khelds are not the be-all and end-all of ATs that give "t3h ubar!" after you hit 50. They just are not.

But they are a great change for those who want to do something different than the standard AT sets.

Wait until the 40's and Nemesis missions.

My favorite were the "Automatons" who look like normal office workers.

"Where's my TPS reports?"
"Who parked in my employee of the month parking spot?"
"That's my stapler!"

I literally could not fight mobs for the laughter.

/em madvillain

"If <insert historical figure> were here today, he'd be eating microwave sushi with us in a hottub, sipping brandy!"

Had to put the HH plug in here.

Having just gotten this power on my defender, I can say it totally rocks. I also lucked into a SO end reducer on my last TF, and have it slotted 2 DOs and 1 SO. Level 15 Emp/Dar Defender.

Anyone who complains about TP should try flying. you need at least 2-3 speed enhancers in it and (without stamina) 1 End reducer in it to make it worthwhile. Fly is infinitely more tiresome than TP.

It DOES require skill and practice to learn to use it. But I've saved a teammate from death quite often with the use of Teleport Self/Recall Friend.

Another added bonus was, as an empath defender, you can be hunting in boomtown, and if the group seperates into 2 little clusters, I was able to TP between them quite rapidly and fire off AoE heals, use Heal Other and so forth to GREAT efficiency.

As well, we had a team leader that loved to just run into combat without calling the targets for me. Kinetics Controller or something of the sort. Before the foes could land the first blow, I am right by their side and healing them, when all five attacks land, and their bar went red then green, instantly.

With the three end reduction enhancers, I can TP across a zone and be ready to go for the first fight when I was in BT. I'd frequently TP out to the gate, get one of the people back to the gate, get another for the team, port back and recall.

This is by far one of the most useful powers for support types I have seen.

I do see why scrappers and blasters would not enjoy it. Scrappers would have troubles (unless invuln) utilizing this skill to get to foes, in battle. SS and fly work much better in this regard, especially indoor missions.

However, last night I used this for a party member who had Unyielding Stance, TPing him into the various mobs, since they did not have teleport self yet, and he was amazed at the accuracy with which I could place him in the middle of foes.

With RA running, I do see an end to all end troubles and a switch-out of end reducers for range, which will again maximize the effect.

Just had to share that with the TP community.

[ QUOTE ]

A tanker is a better controller than a controller.

[/ QUOTE ]

You DEFINATELY have not played post-level 30. I agree with all other points, but the controllers I have seen from 33-35 can beat minions down better than tankers by far. I went on two missions SK'd and noted the blaster just picking of fthe runners, and I (a scrapper) was just there for fluff. The controller could have easily solo'd purple bosses and minions.