Ahtropa

Just found and read...and thank you SO much, Statesman and the devs.

Thank you for not only hearing but LISTENING.

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I am pretty sure the scrapper primary Dark Melee has a power which can drain endurance, can't speak for the rest.

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Dark Consumption from Dark Melee. It drains end from the mobs and transfers it to the Scrapper.

I think Soul Transfer does as well, but that's a self-revive in the Dark Armour set.

Thanks, Doc! To use your own saying "You ROCK!".

Tell you what, let's cheerfully agree to disagree. I do see and understand your points, and I hope you see and understand mine.

I've said this before: all I want to see changed with the bosses is their godsawful damage. Keep the hp rise. Just have the damage dropped back down to either pre-3 levels or slightly harder. That is my issue about them. Sure, a fight takes longer, I can deal with that. It's getting nailed by horrendous damage in one or two shots.

Remember, your mission with the warrior clan. That boss nailed me with a 1260 shot. ONE. The Scrapper was nailed for 1900 and she wasn't sk'd higher as I was.

It's really an issue of SURVIVABILITY, solo OR grouped, slider OR not. There are many accounts of good tactics, inspiration use, having the right ATs, etc. and they all end in the players being wiped due to too much damage being done.

That right there is the crux, IMHO. Surviving the bosses. This has affected everyone across the game one way or another. Some not at all, some a little, others greatly. I feel that is what should be looked at by Statesman and the devs.

Fortunately, Statesman WILL be doing so. He has stated in another thread. I, for one, am going to shut up and wait to see what solutions they come up with.

Meanwhile, I hope you're up to exemp'ing, because Doc's going to get a work out with my blaster.

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Quick update:

I've been discussing things with various team members and I've got an "official" meeting today to kick around some ideas about this issue. With luck, I'll post later today - otherwise early next week.

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Thank you very much, Statesman!

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... and I doubt anyone has read every single post.

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I have.

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I was making a point in an admittedly smartalec way. The smartalec part is: That poster is dead WRONG. *I* could SOLO that room conned for two people with the tools I have available at the level I got the mission. And I could do it with or without taking down the boss.

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My point, Doc, is that you're running an MC. You can sleep the boss or confuse or terrify or whatever manner you wish to make it so that you can get the hostage without having to actually fight the boss. The ones who run without Stealth or SS or Cloaking, they must engage the boss because of proximity aggro.

Before my Blaster gained Stealth and Superspeed, I had to really be careful when taking on any mission. Proximity aggro sucks. Sure, admittedly, since gaining SS+Stealth pseudo-invis and adding in Combat Jumping, I'm a little less likely to be careful. What's the main advantage for Red is the fact she hits hard and fast. That's her only protection, when soloing. Losing that really puts a crimp in things. I now save my missions and run them with Doc exemp'd. Why? Protection. I don't have that much. And too many times the first opening shot misses and sometimes I can't run fast enough once the boss has targeted me and fired. Sometimes I can get timing right and hit a jump and get missed, like what happned with Infernal, but most of the time I'm hit. Yes, I use inspirations, yes I'm careful and do plan tactics. But one shotted...not fun.

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But the point part was: the poster used the generic "you" as if to say "Wah! Nobody can solo this mission (without taking down the boss)."

Saying nobody can solo that mission is flat wrong. A number of controllers, most tanks, and most scrappers, can, at that level.

And what's more, all kinds of ATs can solo that room, so long as they're willing to die a few times, and do some running.



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And I pointed out that it's easier for you, Doc, because of the build you have. Same for the others who are able to solo. And there is also, as I've pointed out, the fact that not everyone runs with Stealth or with Superspeed or Cloaking or any other type of stealthing. They MUST deal with bosses, like it or not.

So yes, it is not soloable by all. Many have said they had to go out and gain help to finish their missions. And how many times have I done the same with you? Just last night I asked as you were in your alt "If I need help, can I scream for Doc?" As much as I love teaming with you and my SGmates, I really really like to solo. It's feeling self-sufficient, independent, and actually like a hero.

Most were already doing the dieing alot and running, but had better success than they do now.

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The game still has lots of soloable content. You just have to make some semi-intelligent choices about AT or at least powers IF YOU WANT TO SOLO A LOT. That's an EXTREMELY REASONABLE place for the game to be.

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But why must a player make a cookie cutter AT that everyone and their monkey is making just to be able to solo? That takes away their ability to choose.

Last night I stared at the new character generator screen, trying to decide on what type of AT to play for soloing better than I do with Red. I read many guides to Tankers, Scrappers, Controllers...but the more I did, the more annoyed I got. Why? Because I had to conform to the Flavour Of The Month or the cookie cutter AT in order to have I wanted, what I had with my Blaster's build.

Yes, with the free respec I've changed out powers and I think I can get Red soloing well again...still testing it out, but she's done far better today than I've been able to since I3 went live. But what irks me is that I shouldn't have to change out my concept to play the game.

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The fact that it's not universally soloable by any build whatsoever, for example a melee-oriented blaster with no defenses aside from stealth, is, to be sure, a disheartening development for people like Ahtropa whose melee blaster used to be able to do that stuff.

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Well, Red became melee oriented by accident, but I see your point. And even with Hasten permaslotted and running with Combat Jumping, I'm still low in defenses. Statesman has said that Blasters are the most vulnerable. Where Hasten gives 5% protection to Defenders, Blasters gain 4%. FOUR. So no matter how much defense I apply, it will ALWAYS be less than a Defender or Controller simply because she IS a Blaster.

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That flaw lies with the fact that bosses were *ever* soloable to such a character. If CoH had been released in I3 form, we could avoid all this acrimony and the disappointment of players. But the disappointment of individual players over individual characters is does not necessarily mean it's a bad move for the game overall.

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Making the bosses tougher, sure...what seems to be the crux of the overall discussions/debates is the DAMAGE they do. It's been doubled, just about. And the oneshotting is just ridiculous on ANY AT.

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Meanwhile, I still would have a rough time being as disappointed as Ahtropa is in her Blapper. I always *thought* her concept for the character was extreme-damage with support. And that character performs SUPERBLY. She and I duoed can take down 10-strong cons of reds as fast as two scrappers, more safely, with only one of us doing any serious damage.

Seriously. I blink, and she has stuff on the pavement. We were routinely taking down +4 clusters including Bosses yesterday; we cleared out two "arrest 50" hunts like that.

That's sick.

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Actually, Red was made FOR soloing. Mainly due to the fact that Blasters are usually the highest damage dealers. Note I said USUALLY. My first char was a Blaster, Energy/Energy, waaaay back when. I changed to a Defender because my friends kept dying and we NEEDED support. I've had Ahtropa for 44 levels, and doing 99% grouping. I made Red for a change in game experience, to BE the damage dealer again after so long. I have no patience for Scrappers or Tankers, I also don't like being in the thick of things constantly. I like being able to hit distance when needed. Red became a meleer out of sheer luck and coincidence. Ever since I saw the damage of her Electric secondary, I've been rather happy. I get the in-close scrapping that I like to do and can take it to distance when I must/want to.

But...in regards to taking down the bosses in PI...the thing you're forgetting is that it's mainly due to the fact YOU are holding them. If not for the fact that your Mind Controller CAN keep a boss quivering and held 99% of the time, I COULDN'T go all out on a boss.

When I teamed with the Earth/Storm Controller in my SG, it was much harder for Red to take a boss. Gia had to Fossilize the boss many many times in order to keep it held. That kept her from being able to lay down much else save for AEs like Lightning Cloud, Volcanic Gas, and she has to let the pets run wild. I know Gia's holds are pretty heavily slotted, but I noticed a marked difference between Gia and Doc. I think it's because she has only two really good holds whereas Doc has others...I may be wrong, but that's what comes to mind based on experience.

I still say it's the fact that Doc is a Mind Controller that makes your game experience vastly different. And my husband has one of exact type, MC/Emp Controller and has experience similar. After I3, a 27 Blaster needed help taking down a boss. He offered and his then L8 was sk'd. He had just gained the AE sleep hold. And with his help the Blaster was able to complete their mission.

Once more: Mind Control appears to be one of the best builds TO be able to solo. Other ATs are able to as well. But there are many who aren't such, and why must we suddenly all be hampered? Why must we change our character concept? Why must we conform to cookie cutter and Flavour Of The Month in order to play as WE want to?

Our choices of group or solo has been taken from us. Yes, you can argue that we can still do so if we adapt. But in most cases, adaptation isn't the best course of action. I've read many have shelved their favourite charactes, the ones that gave them such joy to play, due to the changes in I3. What it comes down to, again, is not the boss hp but the boss DAMAGE. All due to Statesman's vision of "encouraging grouping", to use his wording for it from another thread.

I just think and feel that this move to "encourage grouping" is wrong...especially when the majority of the player base is willing to group on their own as it is. But it's also not good for those who cannot group due to 1) limited amount of time to play, 2) needing to go afk for whatever reason (usually parents), 3) being able to play at odd hours and not being able to find anyone to group with let alone a good group.

This blanket change has affected so many so deeply and on so many levels. I'd like to see some correction but it's all now just wait and see.

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I liked City of Heroes for one reason mainly. I could play solo. I am a Dad and when things come up with the kids and the wife I MUST leave the computer you just can't REASONABLY stress reasonably do that in a group. Its not fair to the group. You say MMP shines with a group that may be true. But yours was different it finally was a place solo players could fight solo and just chat with other people. You did not have to fight as a group. But as time goes by each change seems to move away from that. I just feel you are working against me now. As a dad I may need to look elsewhere for an online game.

Terry Bailey Sr.

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Exactly how I feel as a full time parent of two teenagers.

Being in a group and having to go afk for five or so minutes at at time isn't fair to others. Fortunately with my SG, who are mainly my grouping team, they understand and make adjustments. I have been in pick up teams where I was harshly reprimanded for even playing because I am a parent. I've been kicked from teams for having to afk due to my teenager needing help with homework etc.

There are many many parents who play CoH. I've run across so many I'm very pleasantly surprised. Many, such as myself, play with their family. But many also have young ones who sometimes need attention right away. The wife of a SGmate had to suddenly go afk in the middle of a mission I was helping her with and was afk for a good fifteen minutes. Found out her two year old had gotten into the food colouring markers and tried to make himself green. I don't think many others would've been so patient to wait for her to deal with it.

Being able to solo is also how many parents take that "me" time. After dealing with children, school, dinner, spouses, errands, after school activities, sports, bills, and gods know whatever else goes on in the household, being able to solo is a great way of stress relief. Think about it: being able to pound a yellow, orange, red, or even purple boss. The satisfaction that gives is something that's a very good thing to many who use CoH for stress relief.

Another reason for soloing, for me and for others, is after playing a support AT for so long (in my case 44 levels), it's such a fun and refreshing change to be able to solo and do damage.

I created my alt Blaster with two things in mind: soloing and power hitting. It's such a difference, night and day. With my Defender, I've never solo'd, not truly as I do with my Blaster. The Defender has always been group oriented. My Blaster does well enough in teams or with minimum support, but when I want that "me" time, it's such a nice thing to be able to have that.

Statesman, you say you want to encourage grouping. From what I've seen, from what I've read, from what I've heard in-game, there IS grouping. A goodly amount of it. The problem isn't soloability...the problem is the power gamers and the power levelers. These are the ones who rise through the game, trying to "beat" it, who gain the final last level, look around, and then complain there is nothing to do.

Statesman, PLEASE understand: every online game has these types. There is NOTHING you can do about it. They will ALWAYS find a way to get around whatever constraints you try to apply to slow them down. There is NO nerf strong enough to stop them. And every obstacle you apply in making the game harder, they will find a way around it.

And in making the game harder to try and keep their business, you may be costing CoH the patronage of the people you really WANT to keep: those who enjoy the journey, not the destination.

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If it is now impossible for me to solo kill a boss two levels above me with out a lot of candy. How is it a Boss two levels below me (My character should be a Major Boss in mobs eyes IMO) to kill me after a fairly long battle that I got him down to 1/3 his health. Again this boss was two levels below me and actually conned white to me. I should have no more problems killing it as I would a minion of equal level. Please readjust the Boss levels. Major Bosses, IIE Named Bosses in Missions, AVs, Monsters make them as hard as you want but your everyday run of the mill boss on the street and in a random mission should not be impossible to kill. Your taking the fun out of the game for those who like to solo, who only play 1-2 hours a day (Thus not using up valuable bandwidth) these people are the bread and butter of the game. They are the majority.

Again please reconsider the boss level, and just the boss level.

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I bring up the original post because we're sort of getting side tracked.

Okay, yes...bosses are harder now. Yes, you can, some cases, ignore the boss. Only times when you cannot is when it's a defeat all (known objective or stealthed) or when you must arrest a Named boss (known objective or stealthed).

The OP brings up a good point: a white or lower con boss and ability to deal with it.

Sure, if you have the ability to ignore the mission, you can level and come back in. But even blue bosses are hard. I went into a DE mission with my Blaster (a pick up team where my SGmate was part of for a bit) and the boss was blue. I figured I'd have an even chance. No. It took a swipe, spit, swipe, spit in rapid sucession and I couldn't take it down fast enough. A BLUE boss.

I tested boss difficulty and found a boss green to my L35 Blaster, another DE, and nearly was taken down. Yes, Blasters are squishy, but not THAT squishy. And given how hard hitting the punches in the Electric secondary are, when I can one and twoshot a white and yellow con min and Lt. (and sometimes even orange mins and Lts.), this is just doesn't make sense.

When you go into a mission, solo or teamed, the boss is usually the level of the mission holder and either orange, red, or purple. Okay, given point, makes sense there. But when you're facing cons below your given level and they're such a hardship, that doesn't seem right.

Bottom line: the new boss hp and damage raise has drastically changed the gameplay for a good majority of the player base. Many are finding the change difficult and their reason for playing, the fun factor, is greatly diminished. They must 1) change their way of playing (team more, use more inspirations, skip missions wherever possible), 2) change out enhancements in their current slots (more damages instead of accuracy etc.), 3) respec, or 4) start over with a toon that enables their way of playing.

WHY after 8-9 months of bosses being "too low" as it seems Statesman feels they are, WHY the sudden change? WHY wasn't this fixed before launch? If this was part of his Vision(tm), if it was such an integral thing, then WHY is it just NOW being "corrected"?

That's what has most upset from what I've read and heard in-game. Months of bosses as they were and suddenly a change due to their being "wrong".

Bleh, I'm starting to rant...I'll stop now before I really rev up. Suffice it to say, the boss upgrade really isn't a good idea. For some, it's great, but overall it seems that the majority of the player base, whether they have squishy-shouldn't-be-soloing-in-the-first-place toons or not, isn't happy. And considering the bread and butter of CoH is the casual player, quite frankly angering that portion of the player base really isn't a good idea.

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Therfor you can't complete the mission without killing the bosses in order to free the lawyer.

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The guys holding aren't bosses. Mez the bosses, kill the hostage holders, and go home.

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The problem is, YOU can mez them, you're a Mind Controller. But many of us aren't. Ahtropa isn't, and my little Blaster isn't either.

You were with me on my DE save the lawyers mish today. You saw that undocumented Devoured, orange flavoured, at the end near the last hostage. If it was JUST me, I'd have been in for a world of hurt. Why? My Blaster doesn't have the ability to mez. Sure, the hostage was in the corner, MAYBE I could have gotten in and gotten him out from under the nose of the boss and the other mins roaming. I have Stealth and Superspeed, those two combinations give me a good pseudo-invis. But a toon who doesn't have that is in for a hellish fight.

I was with my SGmate who's a Scrapper today. He told me in all of his solo missions today before teaming with me he had bosses, either near the glowy or hostage. He has stealth of a sort from DA, however, they still aggrod and he was in for a fight regardless. Until he teamed with me and had a much easier time due to Aht's buffing. But still, more than once today I had to unexemplar in mid-mission just to be able to handle the damage the bosses were applying. And at one point I almost lost him when I paused in the spam-heal to apply Fort and AB. One hit, ONE hit and he was dropped to red. It took a spam-heal and Heal Other to get him back to full because of how hard he was being slammed. A L44 Emp nearly being overwhelmed by the damage of a L31 boss. That's just ridiculous.

As for mezzing the boss, as you suggest. It's easy for YOU. YOU have a toon that CAN handle bosses of just about any type. You hold, sleep, Terrify, whatever you need to do to get the job done. YOU can do this. We, myself included, canNOT. Only if we roll an MC specifically to have a character which CAN do what you do.

See the diff? What you suggest is well and good, but it's most often NOT an option. Not for a solo player who doesn't have that ability on their toon. Now, going out and finding an MC willing to team is another solution. But, and as has been relayed and in my own experiences, finding a good pick up team is time consuming and most oft times nearly impossible.

After a few days, one thing is clear to me: the bosses are hitting so hard that my L44 Emp is having problems keeping up and gets overwhelmed. This is with ONE Scrapper.

I was watching damage when I was sk'ing an SGmate, the aforementioned Scrapper. Taking on a boss that conned white to me, the damage was rather harsh. One hit, ONE hit gave the Scrapper more damage than I could heal. Two shots and he would've been down if not for hitting greens. I'm using Heal Other (little over 650) and Heal Aura (little over 370) one after the other just to keep up. I didn't dare stop to lay down a Tenebrous Tentacle or Night Fall or Dark Blast or Moonbeam to try and debuff. The one time I did, he died in one hit due to being too low and out of greens.

This is ridiculous. How can I play support, how can I do my job as a Defender when this is the case? Yes, I've been overwhelmed before, but that was when I was the sole Defender in a 4-5 man team, including myself. But I was able to handle it with good tactics and herding of the players. This was too much.

Boss difficulty is beyond soloing missions. It's impairing the effectiveness of Defenders and Controllers. Not all, granted, but a good majority.

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OK. Using "named" and "unnamed" in this context is still confusing me. You told me this story right after you did it, and I didn't really understand what you'd found.

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Named bosses are FrostFire, Atta, Mr. Po, the several named Rikti in the missions from the contact Angus gives you, Ubelmann, etc. These are the ones you are told to arrest.

Generic UnNamed bosses are Paragon Protectors, Lesser Devoured, Devoured, Tank Swipers, Master Illusionists, Ring Mistress, Dark Ring Mistress, Gunslinger, Zeus Titan, Hand of Artemis, etc.

Statesman said that if there is a boss it will be mentioned in the text. How many times have you come across these Generic UnNamed bosses in your missions? People have been posting mission text and in one case given a link to a screenshot of a boss in a mission which was not mentioned at all in the text. So what Statesman said is not fact: there are bosses appearing in the missions which are NOT mentioned in the text. This has been going on since the BEGINNING. Over the last 8-9 months.

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Again, there DEFINITELY are named bosses that are NOT mission objectives (and need not be defeated to finish the mission). Seen it scores of times. Also, there effectively can be unnamed bosses that you do have to defeat (in defeat-all missions), and I'm not sure I haven't see a few explicitly "defeat the boss" missions that had the generic name on the boss. Not sure about that.

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I think some of the DE missions are "defeat the boss" which have a generic name on the boss. And I think some of the Nemesis are that way as well as some Malta...I think.

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Regardless, and maybe this seems nitpicky, but the named/unnamed distinction is not related to the mission-objective/not-mission-objective distinction.

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Alright, point taken.

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So, essentially, you found (evidence to the effect that) that (normally) missions that require you to defeat a boss will always mention the presence of a boss.

And, correct me if I'm wrong: there are two known exceptions. The buggy undocumented-defeat-all missions (which may contain bosses), and stealth-boss missions, like Akarist and Terra.

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Yes.

My problem is what Statesman said, that if there is a boss, it will be mentioned in the text. He did not differenciate between Generic UnNamed boss or Named boss. He just said "boss". That has sparked many to relate their experiences with Generic UnNamed bosses, which proved Statesman's statement as either flat out wrong or overly general.

In another post in the "List of borked things in Issue 3" (page 5, 7th post down), Statesman says this: "Anytime a Mission has a boss, the mission text SHOULD clearly identify that a boss will appear regardless of the team size entering it (bosses appear in spawns usually if there's 2 or more heroes on a mission map). /Bug it if the text isn't clear. We'll be improving this UI shortly so that there are icons that point out when a mission requires help and when it's solo-able."

Again, Statesman is not giving clarification whether it's Generic UnNamed or Named boss. Again he is being either overly general or flat out wrong.

Another point: Statesman states that a boss will appear if there are 2 or more heroes on a map. We all know this to not be truth or fact. Bosses are appearing, have ALWAYS appeared, in missions set for ONE person.

I'm sorry I'm cranky about this, but Statesman either 1) does not play the game, or 2) doesn't check his facts before issuing blanket statements. Either way, he's shooting his credibility in the foot.

/em cranky

Alright...tested out the theory today being exemplared to a DM/DA Scrapper, L29.

We did his missions set to one person (he went in first and then invited me), again undocumented bosses, again right next to items which needed to be either rescued or clicked. He has Cloak of Darkness and was able to stealth by several of the mobs. As stated before, I have SS+Stealth so was able to move around rather freely. He had one mission TO defeat a Named but this one WAS documented.

And one mission became a stealth "defeat Named boss" with absolutely NO indication in the documentation whatsoever. It was a scientist who became a Devoured. An oj boss.

I have had this happen with past missions. One which comes to mind is rescuing a man from the CoT who had captured him. When you find him, HE is the boss, often oj boss (based on my own and when friends ran the same mission). NO documentation, no warning, he's a Named boss WITHOUT any clues whatsoever in the mission text.

If the bosses were not engaged, if left alone, yes the mission could be ended. The exception were the "defeat all" missions. Two of them were documented "defeat all" and we had one turn into a stealth "defeat all".

So...this experiment proved: IF the boss is a Generic UnNamed, it is possible to solo your mission. It means leaving the boss or bosses alone and never touching them. This, however, cannot be depended upon as a fact because it has been proven time and again that many missions become stealth "defeat all". This means engaging the Generic UnNamed boss or bosses in order to complete the mission.

It also proved: IF the boss is a Named, it will state so in the documentation. USUALLY. It has been proven time and time again there are missions with a stealth Named boss which must be fought in order to end the mission.

So what Statesman said is not exactly a truth for Named boss missions as he has posted. There are TWO missions that I know of which have stealth Named bosses.

And the posts I've read also prove one of my points in an earlier post: IF you have Stealth or run SS+Stealth or Cloaking, or have ANY type of stealthing capability, you CAN solo your missions by avoiding the boss or bosses and leaving them behind. If not, then you must solo the boss.

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Ok, I still think it's obvious that States was responding to the issue: people's inability to solo a mission.

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Okay, I'll give you that...but he should have worded it as such to prevent this confusion and seeming discrepancy.

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There are many missions you can complete solo withOUT defeating the bosses in the missions. If you can complete a mission solo, the mission is soloable.

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Okay...nodding to this one too. Agreed.

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Until HE says to the contrary, I'm remaining convinced that he meant that every mission that *requires* you to beat the boss *to finish the mission* mentions the presence of a boss.

IOW: The issue isn't undocumented bosses, because you don't need to beat those to be able to solo.

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The Named bosses vs. Generic UnNamed bosses. Okay, agreed. These Generic UnNamed bosses are the ones that can be left behind, as irksome and annoying as that may be.

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And, at this time, I believe all missions that require you to defeat a boss do list the presence of a boss, with one exception.

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Again, agreed. This has proven true, again Named vs. UnNamed Generic.

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(That exception is, there are a certain number of missions that have hidden defeat-all conditions (which would include unlisted bosses), which is a major bug that I have been bugging, complaining about, and summoning GMs over repeatedly for (it seems like, at least) six months now.)

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Okay...tell you what...when we get together again, we'll run my mishes and see how many can be completed by leaving the boss and see if it is indeed possible TO leave said boss.

Personally, I don't think it is. Why? Aggro factor.

My little Blaster and little Defender run under the noses of mobs all the time. How many times have I made you jump and squeak when I'm standing under the nose of a boss while you're about 27 or so feet away juuust out of their aggro range? You have Stealth, I run Superspeed AND Stealth. That enables me to scout ahead, look for hostages, glowies, and give an account of what's ahead. How many times have I zipped ahead while you're running fast and putting to sleep mobs so you don't aggro?

Now...let's apply this to those who don't have the same SS+Stealth that I run or your Stealth. Or Phase Shift or Invis or Cloaking or any stealthing ability of any type. The odds they'll gain aggro and get on the boss' hate list is very high usually. This forces a confrontation, like it or not. Sure, running past the boss can be done, however, that will likely place them smack dab right into a pack of mobs they had no chance of seeing due to that run through.

I guess what I'm getting at is that Generic UnNamed boss in a mission may be ignored and left to complete the mission, but if this Generic UnNamed boss is standing near an objective (hostage, glowy, object to destroy), a confrontation MUST take place. And after I3, I've seen more bosses near objectives and others have stated such in their accounting of their own experiences post-I3.

And that CAN lead into an inability to complete the mission solo or even teamed.

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Personally, I think it's pretty evident that missions all contain, or can contain, bosses (except perhaps some of the ones in the first 12 levels?).

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Those were named bosses tho...Bonebreaker, Marrowsnap, Bonefire...then later were Piston, Bolts, Cutter...I remember several with Tsoo named bosses and there are the named CoTs...it goes on. When the bosses are named, then it's warned about. But when they're just generic run of the mill boss, it's not warned about.

Like the mish tonight we did...3 Paragon Protectors, orange, bosses. I had no clue and if not for you I sure would not attempt them on my own. I would and did when it was pre-3. I've taken on PPs with my little blaster and proved able to take them out fast enough. But not now. You saw the damage, one hit from me with Build up, Havoc, and additional Fortitude from you and still the first shot was enough to take off just a sliver. Not good.

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I'd really like to see a clarification, though, of what you mean, Statesman, when you say a mission will always indicate if it contains a boss.

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AGREED. I'd like to see clarification too, as I'm sure others would as well. Statesman, DO you mean a NAMED boss will appear in the text or do you mean ANY GENERIC boss will appear in the text? From my experiences with the many many missions I've run, of my own and my SGmates and my friends, I have to say that yes, NAMED are mentioned, but ANY GENERIC aren't.

Statesman says that a boss will be warned about in text. I've yet to see it for ANY GENERIC boss.

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My assumption was, you were speaking to the soloability of missions and therefore speaking to mission *objectives*, and meant that if a mission contains a defeat-a-boss requirement, the mission will say so.

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For Named boss, sure. I've yet to see it for Any Generic boss.

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I'm reasonably sure I've never seen anything to the contrary, too, excepting the fact that there's that 2% of the missions that have buggy, inappropriately hidden defeat all conditions.

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I've had too many of these...and I've come to expect it. I hate it. Going in with one idea in mind due to what you think are facts only to be caught by surprise when it becomes suddenly defeat all. Usually in the form of "stop all the X mob". You know the type, "Stop the Circle from sacrificing the magicials" or "Save X person from the Circle". It's either defeat all of them or actually take out a certain percentage, usually close to 98% of them, before Mission Complete.

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BTW-- so far, I'm very pleased with the net effect of the HP/XP/Damage buff on MObs. And I don't mean that in a completely selfless way-- +1 bosses are still now effortlessly safe with me around, and I'm pretty sure, more rewarding per hour, too. They are nowhere near as safe, now, without me around, from what I gather both in games and on the boards.

I feel like a hero. Possibly for the first time.

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Aw...Doc...*hugs*

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As a Defender, this makes it harder for me to be the only Def in a group of 3-4.

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Not good to hear - one of my mains is a scrapper (who lives on Test, so I was living with Issue 3 for a while); the other is a dark/dark defender, who's permanently teamed with two (sometimes three) blasters. It's not an optimal team, but we're all playing what we want, & being successful at our own missions. Definitely not good to hear from a defender that this may be a problem now.

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You're welcome. I've been reading reports mostly from the fighter classes, not much from Defenders, so chimed in.

My Heal Aura is 1 recharge and 5 heals, 45++. That's enough to put back half a bar almost in one heal. Heal Other is 1 recharge and 4 heals, enough to put back 3/4 of a bar. My healing was overwhelmed by one boss. In order to keep up, I figure I'd have to either drop the recharges and put in another heal, but that would then slow down the cycle despite perma-hasten.

I didn't set these slottings according to my usual team of 1 Cont or 1 Cont and 1 Scrapper or 2 Scrappers. These slottings were what I had as I leveled when I would do a lot of tfs. I've handled 8 man teams being the only healer. Yes, it was hell, but I could do it with a lot of herding of the players and good tactics. I could even handle a shoot first and charge team. The way things are set now, I'd not dare get into any 4-8 man team without another Emp or Kin and/or several Conts who can lock down.

After much retrospection, I see that it's becoming a golden time for Controllers. Today, my husband was in KR and a 28 Blaster was having problems and put out a call to anyone who can help. He told the other he had a L8 but would help with sk. He went in, sk'd, locked down the boss, the Blaster took it down.

So yes, I understand that tactics and such are now needed. But...what bothers me is this: yes, we're guests at a party, but where before we could dance as we wanted, and for many that was off in a quiet corner by themselves, but now we're being forced to partner up and dance the way our host wants us to. It doesn't seem fair, it seems unreasonable, but when they're the only party in town for what you want, you have to do what they enforce.

I know of many who have left to WoW or EQ2. I3 is after the Xmas rush so CoH will have new blood to replace the old timers who canceled. This new blood didn't have the experience we old timers did with the way things were. They'll see nothing wrong, CoH will gain the players who play the way they want players to.

Boy, that sounds like a conspiracy theory, don't it? I'm honestly not meaning to, but this just occurred to me as I type. For every old timer who leaves, they gain new blood to replace, so for CoH it's not really a lose situation. For the complaints on how Statesman does not listen let alone hear (yes, two different things) I have this to offer: because it's not a losing situation for CoH to not change things back, there ISN'T a reason TO listen or hear.

So...bottom line...it's dance the way Statesman wants us to or go elsewhere for the freeform dancing we all love. Unpleasant, but there you go.

Me...I'm trying to learn the dance steps...but so far don't like it one bit.

Speaking as a Defender, what I'd like to see is the damage rolled back if not to what it used to be then toned down a bit.

Today I was with 2 scrappers in Peregrine, 40 Claws/SR and a 28 DM/DA who was sk'd to my 44 Defender.

When we met up, a Fake Nemesis suddenly spawned behind us. The Claws was visible, I hadn't yet invis'd him, when the Fake Nem hit. Hard. It took me down to half a bar, the claws to 3/4, and the sk to half. The fight was hell. I popped off Regen Aura, Recovery Aura, but couldn't lay down Fort or Clear Mind, or the usual other buffings...I found myself suddenly spam healing...something I'd not done in...a very long time.

I'm usually fast with the Heal Other, but not enough this time. If I hadn't spam healed, they'd have been dead. As it was, even though I was higher level than the Fake, I had no time to lay down Tenebrous Tentacles on it or hit it with Night Fall to debuff its acc. I spent the entire time of that fight spam healing, setting off RA, and Adrenalin Boost.

After that we did a bit more street hunting, again taking on a boss. This time, after laying down the two auras and applying the usual boosts, I led off with the tentacles with a Night Fall follow up, and nearly was taken down. It was as if I had never placed them at all. They jumped in and took the aggro, and again I found myself spam healing because they took damage too fast for Heal Other.

The levels were 43-45 bosses. Usually, with my Def being higher, we could take them on and I could help whittle down their hp. Not anymore. We began to drop down to 41s because of the damage dealt. The problem was they were taking damage too hard and too fast and there were several deaths. They gained more debt than xp.

To add my own tale to the others on the solo end of things...

I have a Blaster alt, Energy/Electric. I liked the damage output and was surprised at what the Charged Brawl and Havoc Punch could do. Never meaning to, I wound up making a Blaster who could melee. Those two punches were great one and two shot hits. Add SS and Stealth, Combat Jumping, I could move in, take down two whites with one shots due to Build up and be on the third white with a blast before taking too much damage. Sure, half a bar, a quarter, but I could solo. With bosses, sneak in, lead off with Havoc, Charged, a few good blasts to bounce it around, and though I'd take damage, the boss was still soloable. I could do my own missions.

The day before I3, I had the Unity Plague arc nearly finished. Had an oj boss, but after a luck and clear mind and the usual attacks, and despite hitting yellow bar, it was taken down. The day after...4 bosses in a mish that I had never had that many bosses in before. These weren't Lessers but straight Devoured. Yellow to me.

The first time I attempted this last mission of the Unity Plague arc, the yellow boss nearly killed me, and would have if I wasn't fast on the respites. As it was, I had none left, ate 5 lucks, 2 clear minds, and still had a hellish time taking it down. A yellow...something that I'd never had this much trouble with before. It wasn't the higher hp, that can be dealt with, it was the amount of DAMAGE it did.

Before, I'd be hit for 247 or there abouts...this time it was 447. One shot. On 819 hp on a L35 Blaster.

As I progressed, the whites, yellow Lts. and even the blues in the mission were all hitting much harder than before. I had to quit. Yes, even with adjusting to distance shots only with my blasts, when they closed on me they'd get in one shot as I sped away or jumped over them, and that was enough to take me down to nearly half bar.

Tonight after entering the mission again, I scouted around. Same set up with four yellow bosses, many Lts. and whites. From within the mission, I asked a 44 Eng/Eng Blaster friend to help, and exemp'd him down. While he barraged with shots, I snuck in and smacked around with my punches and blasts. It was difficult and both of us were reduced to orange bar, but we managed to kill one of the bosses. The same happened with the yellow Lt and the 2 white evens. Orange bar. Even with moving around we were still being hit once by usually two of the three mobs. We finished the mission, going slowly with much distance and running around. A mission that before I could solo.

So, why the upset? Why the anger? Because I LIKE soloing. After playing a Defender for 44 levels, it's nice and a refreshing change to actually deal the damage for once. To be able to take on mobs and have a hope of winning.

I'll say it again: it's not the amount of hp the bosses have, it's the amount of DAMAGE that they do I have a problem with.

As a Defender, this makes it harder for me to be the only Def in a group of 3-4. I dislike pick up groups from too many bad experiences and play only with my SG and those on my Friends list. Sometimes not all are available to play. As a Blaster, this makes it harder for me to be able to solo.

Bottom line...this new change has taken the fun away. I would like to see the fun return...please?

I did the Numina tf tonight on Freedom server, I wasn't leader. Received The Solution for Jurassik, but no badge for the tf.