Another_Fan
-
Posts
3571 -
Joined
-
Quote:Would you play tic tac toe if the other guy got the first 2 moves ?Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
You still have the ability to compete.
And I still fail to see an inherent promise that you'd be given quick, cheap, and easy access to whatever IOs you need to overcome the current FOTM. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Nethergoat
the devs should solicit us locals with their market questions, since we've consistently demonstrated a far finer grained understanding of its hows and whys.
I used to think they knew what was up with the market. But it's been clear for a while now that they just make random changes without thinking them through, then gape in confusion at the ensuing carnage.
Well why yes. We could have the same people who insisted that merits shouldn't be tradeable because they it would be easier to take advantage of rubes that were stuck with them, give advice. Who knows they could even listen to advice of people lauding the investment opportunities of respec recipes after they had bought a boatload of them.
Heck real world why not get more advice on improving the legal system from lawyers. -
Quote:Originally Posted by macskull
You should try playing a squishy in even semi-competitive PvP before you tell someone they can PvP with SOs.
(You can't. You will get called as the target, KB'd, mezzed, and spiked repeatedly because you'll lack both the necessary KB protection and hit points to be competitive. I mean, if you think that's fun, that's one thing.)
LOL
Id read this thread
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...=200384&page=2
particularly starting with this post
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...8&postcount=48
if you want to argue with them, you don't need to do any work just pull up the posts.
Edit just a note that was for Hyperstrike. -
Quote:When they changed this I was certain they wanted rampant inflation. Much the way scores on pinball machines used to inflate.Originally Posted by UberGuy
It's worth noting that they just changed this. The 2.0 used to be 1.0. It was a bug that had existed since the game went live. Frankly, I could not believe they set about fixing it. No one knew it was a bug that it worked that way. They could have left it like that forever and we'd never have known. -
Quote:Originally Posted by peterpeter
We can argue all we want about what we think of the market. And we do. And it's not that interesting. But this is the first time in a very long time that I've seen a dev comment on the market and frankly it's boggling my mind more than a little. I can't even decide if he's being sarcastic. When is the last time a dev described something as "horribly broken"? And what did they do to it afterwards???
Praetorian Rands ? Emperor Cole Dollars ? Rogue Rubles ? -
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
I don't deny that this particular divide exists, but I think it's much too exclusive of other complaints people have. There are plenty of people who don't mention anything about disliking the market mini-game as such who hate the prices and irrationally blame all "high" prices on flippers. It's much more than possible for such people to hate marketeers without directly disliking that there's a market in the game at all.
After all, if I remember correctly, you don't like the market mini-game's presence in this overall game, but you understand it pretty well and don't make a habit of blaming its users irrationally for every perceived ill of the "casual" player's market woes.
No, I like market games in general. I just understand that my preference isn't shared by everyone. I don't blame the market per se for the casual players woes, I do feel that speed with which you can do things with the market forces people into using it whether they want to or not.
Now while I don't dislike the market, I positively love deflating blowhards that take a tone of moral superiority over their actions in a video game.
If anything I would like a better more challenging market game, but I realize that is just me with a hammer viewing the world as a nail.
Edit: and the funny thing isi play several better market oriented games. Really wouldnt be appropriate in this games context. -
Quote:Making that much is a slow week for me.Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
Im the random PeeveePee guy quoted there. The point is valid no matter the forum. The reason you are seeing more and more "Market sucks" threads is because several people are trying to reestablish a PvP community and are coming back to the game WAY before the influence explosion started. I don't think i've ever had 500mil to my name and now single IOs are going for almost 6 times that.
Seriously I am developing market constipation where my toons have their slots jammed with transactions I can't complete without destroying inf.
The Market Sux divide is mostly because the people that don't like the market are unwilling to articulate the fact that it isn't the game they came to play and they don't like dealing with it, and those that enjoy the market don't want to hear it and have elaborate rationales why their mode of play is appropriate. -
I have gone the functionality route as well. Maybe a little to far that way as my bases are positively spartan. My goals were a 1 room transit to get to the teleporters from the main entrance no more than 2 from the med bay, and an intuitive layout of salvage storage and IO storage.
Did you manage anything worthwhile with the storage ? About the best I could come up with was binning by type and putting common IOs in their own room. For the salvage turnover seems to be frequent and I have been resorting to vault storage. -
Quote:Have you no care for all the Warshades in the workhouses sir ?Originally Posted by UberGuy
As has been discussed many times in these forums, appeal to those concepts break down severely in a virtual environment. Moral economic customs and laws exist because, without them, people in distressed situations might be denied fundamental necessities of survival, and thereby, denied the ability to survive or avoid severe injury or distress.
That is, by definition, impossible in a video game. Denying someone a Hecatomb proc will never deny the player at the keyboard their ability to exist, or risk that they suffer real life debilitation or injury except in the most outré of edge cases.
Seriously, I just can't accept the notion of applying moral economics to luxury goods in an environment that is, itself, a luxury to its players. I can't imagine what people in, say, Haiti would think of the comparison right now. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Chowder
That is so full of win. I'm kinda shocked I never thought of doing that. Might just change the way I play the game from here on out!
The nice thing is ragnarok chance of knockdown is dirt cheap. -
Quote:Traveler and MegaTraveler as counterpoint. Both freeform, and the rule system worked very well without GM fiddling. I really have to disagree with your assessment that GM had to constantly tweak Champions. It can very easily go that route but in general thats because its the way the people playing want to play.Originally Posted by Sailboat
The mistake here is equating a freeform RPG with a freeform MMO. RPG does not equal MMO in any but the most superficial ways.
As I described above, from the extensive experience of myself (and others) with freeform tabletop RPGs, I can tell you they were NOT balanced without a dedicated live human game master and I believe they cannot BE balanced without a dedicated live human game master without placing such restrictions on them as would essentially render them no longer "free-form."
In other words, "to balance" = "to place limits (restrictions) on some game rules and functions" in sufficient quantity that many players would say "it's not free-form." The very act of "balance" requires either the careful attention of a (preferably experienced) live human being (not possible on the scale of even the smallest subscription MMO populations) or a set of limits/rules/restrictions. -
Quote:Originally Posted by macskull
To be honest I don't understand why we keep telling these people "you are wrong" over and over when we're obviously the minority who has actually taken the time to figure out how this works, realize it's not that hard, and profit off it. If I13 and the accompanying changes to PvP was any indication, the devs don't really listen to the people who understand something well and implement changes based on what people are currently whining about, which has the effect of making the people that liked it before stop liking it, and those that complained before tool around with it a bit before deciding they don't like it either.
What an interesting viewpoint. "the devs don't really listen to the people who understand something well".
Just a thought the devs might and this is just a maybe a really big maybe, maybe understand the game they created rather well indeed. And just maybe just maybe, when the equivalent of a five year old with an advertisement for a toy machine gun comes up to them saying how its an educational toy, they just might be able to see through it.
So when a small segment of the playerbase has something that it feels is fun but most of the playerbase is at best Meh on, they might not be inclined to amplifying the fun of the small segment and the meh of the vast majority. -
Quote:Remarkable in your ability to miss the point. Generalizing from a specific is usually completely incorrect reasoning.Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Champions Online's STORY is based on the Champions tabletop game.
Champions Online has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Hero system used by the Champions tabletop game.
This is fact. The "Champions" IP and the "Hero System" used by the tabletop games are separate properties. Cryptic purchased the Champions IP from HERO Games. This allowed Cryptic to create a game set in the Champions universe. CRYPTIC DID NOT BUY ANY RIGHTS TO THE HERO SYSTEM WHATSOEVER
Example
Statesman did a poor job with City of Heroes
Statesman did a poor job with Champions online
Therefor Star Trek online is crap.
Champions the Paper N Pencil games existence and playability refutes the idea that you can't balance a freeform superhero RPG.
Now once again really slowly, To say that freeform MMOs are a "BAD IDEA", because one person with not the greatest track record for making fun MMOs couldn't do it, is just off the wall. -
Quote:Thats just bad logic. Champions online is based off the Champions Paper and Pencil game which had a very good very good free form system. What you are doing is the equivalent of condemning all restaurants as a bad idea because there is one guy out there who can't make the concept work.Originally Posted by je_saist
Yes. There has been a lot of discussion. Back in 2002, 2003, and 2004, when the game launched. There was a time during the original game's beta in which the developers allowed a free-form power selection, and it was deemed to be a BAD IDEA. The abject failure of a free-form type system is why we have the structured power sets.
There's little surprise then that the Jack Emmert helmed Champions Online tried a free-form system again... with predictable results. I think the sales results of Champions Online demonstrate just how seriously our Developers should take any of Cryptic's game mechanics.
Which is to say that what-ever ideas Champions Online implemented probably are not a good ideas for our Developers to look at. -
Quote:Uhmm isn't that a /kin controller ?Originally Posted by Katie V
Or combine the Kinetics secondary with the pets from the controller primaries for a one-person team that can out-mastermind a mastermind.
-
Quote:Originally Posted by Jetpack
I logged on an old character back in January. I noticed that I hadn't turned mail off on this character yet.
She had about six gold selling e-mails. You could see the price being charged for inf going down as time went.
I don't think that many people buy inf.
? as it has become easier for regular players to earn inf, the same thing is true for RMTers. What you are seeing is that inf is no longer worth what it was. A purple that used to cost 35 million is now going for 350 million, inf that used to go for 15cents/million now goes for 1.5 cents/million
Your premise may indeed be correct, but your anecdote isn't really evidence.
Edit: Lack of email may have something to do with the new ability to turn it off. -
Quote:Originally Posted by je_saist
Various solutions have been given, such as increasing the drop rate of enhancements, creating an event in Praetoria that awards a guaranteed purple, or lowering the prices on AE ticket to salvage conversions. I'm not saying any of these solutions is the right one... but I highly doubt that the the number crunchers on the developers staff are not keeping track of the market, and those who deliberately abuse the market, and more importantly... those who admit to abusing the market in game, and on the forums.
The simple solution is a store that will sell anything in the game for inf. Not a little inf mind you but a whole boatload of inf. Common salvage at 25k, uncommon 250k, rare 5 million (the rare situation has already seemed to stabilize itself) IO recipes at a similar ratio to current going prices.
This would provide stabilization to the market by bounding its volatility and it would provide a much needed inf sink. It also would solve the current supply problems for people that like to buy things at levels other than 50. -
Quote:At this point you have destroyed the legitimacy of your argument and are just hating out of envy.Originally Posted by eryq2
Agreed.
-
Quote:LOL Oil companies gobble up oil ? They produce oil, then they turn it into gasoline and they do so in an insanely efficient manner. Its enough to make an industrial engineer tremble looking at their numbers.Originally Posted by Lohenien
Real life character and how someone behaves in a semi anonymous setting online are pretty far from the same thing.
Even given that fact, RL people gobble up things in short supply and sell it to the highest bidder. Look at oil companies, they do it. Even RL there are rich, obnoxious, ****** bags that will corner the market on a highly desired item.
The difference is here in game, anyone can be rich and obnoxious. Therefor yes, because there is limited supply, someone WILL manipulate.
But the thing is, that is only possible due to low supply. I can prove it to you - Numina's Convalescence uniques at level 30 are in lower supply than level 50s. Which one costs 200 million and which one costs 60 ? The higher cost one is the lower supplied one, clearly. The demand for the IO at the lower level is also higher, so people are willing to bid more to get it which allows manipulators to capitalize on the lower supply.
If you don't think this is so, try and ship a gallon of anything for less than 3$
You see unlike say flippers, oil companies don't have bunches of people coming along and listing oil fields for 1$ and taking the first bid that is higher than that. There is an incredible amount of investment that goes into finding a potential field, proving it then developing it. This is done in a climate of uncertainty where they never know if their work is going to be expropriated by government or governments going insane, and they do this to be reviled by the very people their efforts help provide a comfortable life. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Black_Mute
Most people don't realize this, but I would say more than 25% of pvp drops are generated by AFK PvP IO farmers in Warburg. As I'm typing this, there were at least three people (some with three accounts) doing this in WB on Justice. I say were because I just killed them. =D
And you wonder why pvpers are disliked ? -
Quote:Originally Posted by TopDoc
We are PvPers, but the Market is our battleground. We beat our opponents just as badly as veteran PvPers beat newbs in the Arena or zones. Veteran PvPers put a lot of time and effort into their characters, and most are perfectly willing to discuss tactics and such with anyone willing to listen. We put a lot of time and effort into researching the market, and we are perfectly willing to share our tactics with anyone willing to listen. Unfortunately, too few are willing to listen. They have learned through experience that whining and complaining will sometimes get them what they want. We need to learn what the rich people in real life probably already know. Poor people will hate us for being rich, just because it's human nature. It doesn't matter how we got rich, or how easy it is to get rich, in fact logic doesn't really have much to do with it. It is simply human nature to want more. It's probably a survival instinct. And with it comes resentment of those people who have more.
Well aside from the fact that wealth creation in real life actually involves creating wealth whereas here on the market its entirely wealth concentration and zero wealth creation that would be correct. When you say thing like "perfectly willing to share tactics" its like the devil in faust giving advice. He is the only completely honest character in the story and counts on people not actually acting on it. The market is a lossy means of redistribution if everyone started to try and make money crafting and flipping nobody would actually profit.
As to being resented for being wealthy, its more resented for being parasitical, the way lawyers, lobbyists, etc are resented -
/MM works very well. It does a little of everything and makes it very easy to IO out your character.
-
Quote:Originally Posted by eryq2
I agree but it doesn't help when people try to manipulate the prices of the market though. Buying low, selling high is one thing if you can get it low then sell it for whatever someone pays is totally different than the people who intentionally try to make it hard on others to make a quick buck. Someone said they were trying to do it to afford higher priced recipes. Don't they realize they're having to do what someone done? Like i said, it's a circle. Makes sense in a willy wonka world i guess.
Actually there is no difference between one person buying everything they can low and listing high to manipulate prices and lots of people buying a little low and listing high. If its profitable you have to expect that it will be maximized.
The problem with the market in the context of the game is, its not a very interesting mini game. Bragging about doing well at it, is sort of like a harp seal clubber claiming to be a great white hunter, just falls flat. Its much more impressive to do well at something like this
http://vse.marketwatch.com/Game/Homepage.aspx
even though there are strategies that are trivial that will allow you to do astoundingly well.
I can easily see why people don't like the market in this game, calling them market haters as some do here is just a rather poor attempt to trivialize their legitimate concerns. Playing as a collective corporate entity just to maximize profit doesn't jibe well with their concept of their characters. You don't see wonder woman shopping in walmart. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
The mysterious "they" are wrong.
I've found at least one class of question that fulfills the requirements for stupidity.
A question that was just answered.
I've dealt with people where you'd explain something to them and they'd ask the same question over, and over (and over) again as if hoping for an answer more to their liking.
We know the same people. The solution is to remind them that answering questions is billable and you have a stopwatch running. If they find that is a problem refer them to someone in sales. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Fulmens
If only someone had ever brought this to their attention on the forums!
You see, that's why I am always so critical of the market forums, they are always crying over spilled milk never bringing this kind of thing up in advance.