Ammon

Despite my distrust of Carter's leadership qualities, yesterday he turned up an excellent lead.

I was more than dubious when, with little more than the nudging of a super-villain to guide him, Carter wanted to lead us all to a 'meeting' in Bloody Bay. Not one of us (except the gullible Mr Carter) seemed to have any doubt this was an ideal trap setup. However, with time against us Bastinado thought the same about this situation as I had about The Lost: That even if it is a trap, we must spring it, because the waiting game does not favour us.

Our team has really come along, and everyone seems to have learned how to use their powers to great effect. Despite a few encounters with gangs of freaks, and some powerful groups of the Gandalf wannabes, we easily made it to Carter's rendezvous location. Anything that tried to attack us had a real bad day.

We were greeted at the meeting place by a disembodied voice, which turned out to belong to a slim woman who stepped seemingly from thin air, so well was she hidden. She was very cagey, but not at all like many of the boastful and insane villains one sometimes finds ranting around. She gave a name of Ms Slash, but this was obviously not a real name, or even a known codename. Just something to call her by.

Ms Slash told us that our enemies, those responsible for creating the situation with Hyperion Star, were a faction within a larger group. The faction, called The Iron Hands, head up Research and Development for the larger group, which we understand to be called LAI, and some kind of huge corporation.

She mentioned other factions, including the one she was a part of, and it became aparent that there is friction and discord among these factions. Ms Slash aparently belongs to a faction named The Birds of Prey, but she didn't respond to my questions about what function The Birds of Prey might represent.

Ms Slash told us that The Iron Hands had been experimenting with Power Manipulation - using technologies and mutagens to create and modify super-powers. The mutagenic chemical agents that we have found in our DNA is apparently part of an early batch, a batch that was unstable. However, the research permitted them to create a more stable and useful formula apparently.

We were told of someone named Dipster, a former 'blaster' who'd had his powers successfully modified by use of the finalised technologies and had been corrupted to join the Iron Hands. A DNA sample from Dipster should provide a lot of information on how to stabilise our own powers and (hopefully) prevent the 'supernova' effect that many victims have experienced.

We were also told of an associate of Dipster, an Arbiter, who'd apparently been sneaking into Paragon City regularly. Ms Slash told us that this Arbiter was working right under the noses of Longbow and Freedom Corps, in the ruins of Faultline. It seemed unlikely, but at least it was a lead we could check out and verify.

Ms Slash's motives for whistleblowing on the Iron Hands seems to be a combination of a little factional friction, and a large amount of personal hatred for the leader of the faction. If she's telling the truth, and this is not just an elaborate trap, she is risking everything in contacting us and betraying her employers.

None of us were keen for the meeting to last any longer than necessary, as we picked up some random transmissions from villains that seemed to suspect our presence in the zone, and be trying to find and hunt us. As soon as we could wrap it up and get out we did.

It was quite a coincidence that she'd provided us with a lead in Faultline, as my own contacts and investigations had pointed me to the same place, and Bastinado too had established a contact in the zone.

My lead was given first priority. An Asian criminal group known as the Tsoo had obtained something they called a 'Human Bomb' formula, and have kidnapped some people to test it on. This had sounded far too similar to what had happened to Comette to ignore, and hearing on the police scanner that the cops had located the hostages, the Hyperion Watchmen were given permission to handle the raid and recover the hostages.

Our raid was a complete success, and not only did we recover the hostages, we also confirmed that the Tsoo had recieved the shipment from Faultline via agents from the Rogue Isles, and we also gained a sample of the formula for Dr Furnace to examine and compare to the mutagenic chemicals detected in our own bodies. Its my hope that by identifying clearly which parts were found to be 'weaponlike' it will help the good Doctor find a treatment.

Following up on Bastinado's contact, we met a rather disillusioned man named Jim Tremblor, who needed our help to recover his young Super-Heroine friend. Once again, The Lost were involved in the case, but our prior experience in handling these mutated villains really showed, and we rapidly took apart their base to recover the heroine unharmed.

Further investigations lead us to a powerful leader of the Lost, named Kurse. If any would know exactly how The Lost were involved in the incident with Hyperion Star and Comette, it would surely be Kurse. Again, our raid was a complete success, and more interesting still, we encountered a Rogue Islands Arbiter named Sands who was also fighting Kurse. This was the Arbiter that Ms Slash had named, and this does seem to fully support the accuracy of her information.

We decided to make a temporary alliance of conveniance with Arbiter Sands to fight together to defeat Kurse, which seemed an excellent chance to get close enough to Sands to perhaps learn something about this Dipster.

We have learned a lot as a result of all these activities, yet it has shown us only the more clearly how much is yet to be uncovered. We'll need to deal with Sands again somehow to get closer to the mysterios Dipster.

I play both servers, but it is far harder to find Roleplayers on Defiant. Most of the very few I have found are like me, playing both English servers.

Private journal of White Vampyr

The night didn't start well. Last week we had begun investgation into the use of biological weaponry by the Vazhilok lot. Seems they'd created some sickening disease and they had released it, through infected zombies at the least. Tonight I found out I was infected.

Thankfully, we had gotten samples of the pure virus last week, and a serum or vaccine to cure the plague had been produced. But it's never that simple is it. The Vazhilok had found out about the serum and were attacking the lab where it was produced, and unless I could save that lab, its staff, and its serum, well, things didn't look good for me.

Bastinado called in the assembled Watchmen to help me, which was just as well in my enfeebled state. I could hardly breathe if I exerted myself, and I tired incredibly fast whenever I tried using any of my powers.

I took quite a battering, and we all ended up in the hospital at one stage, but we managed to save the lab, and its precious serum. The grateful medical team wasted no time in giving me a shot, and we headed back to base while the cure took effect.

Carl came by the base in his GoodGuy guise to report in person what he'd found. Instead, Psyte found something about Carl that none of us had known. Carl was carrying the psyche of the heroine he'd tried to save from the Rogue Isles. Her name was Comette.

Through Psyte's amazing mental powers, he was able to let the lost spirit talk with us through Carl. It was obviously hard for them both, but with our assistance, Psyte managed to hold the spirit of this fallen heroine forth and let her communicate with us. Carl had managed to bring the girl home after all in some small way, and this was such a bitter-sweet thing that I was almost choked with tears by it.

This wasn't Bastinado's kind of interrogation. Instead it somehow fell to me to talk with this poor lost spirit. She didn't even know she was dead, and it took all I had to hold it together and try to break it to her with gentleness and love.

Comette was well aquainted with Hyperion Star. She had been both his sidekick and his lover. This was the first time we'd spoken with anyone that knew him, and here we'd hit the jackpot, yet in such sorrowful circumstances...

Finally, Hyperion Star has a name, an identity. I've even booked an appointment with Human Resources at the University to learn more about Saule, the astrophysicist who became Hyperion Star, and his partner, Sarah/Comette.

Our further investigations were interupted by a lot of serious activity on the Police Scanner, concerning super-villains in Steel Canyon, and I think we all rather relished the chance to let out some of the extreme emotion of dealing with poor Sarah.

Rest in peace, Comette. You are reunited with Hyperion Star once more. You made it home.

Private journal of White Vampyr

I never even spoke to Moonfrost. I merely saw him in the background when I first visited what Bastinado calls The Bunker, our main base. But his death has affected me a lot.

From all accounts, Moonfrost was bright, had plenty of life experience, and showed promise as a hero. He knew about our situation as well as any. But when he took on just a couple of muggers in Central Park, all his experience and care had not prevented him losing control of his powers.

I saw the pictures of it online. Central Park looking like some mini-Ice-Age had descended. Moonfrost apparently killed, frozen by his own powers, taking the muggers and 17 innocents with him. Its horrible.

I guess I'd accepted that I was a timebomb that could self-destruct. It was easier for me. This was all extra time anyway. I'd been prepared to die over a year ago, and every breath since then has been like bonus time. But knowing I'm a bomb that could take out others around me? No, that I wasn't prepared for. That I can't accept.

I had Brit install some state of the art energy containment and dampening technology in the apartment. Hopefully, if something goes wrong at home, it will contain the damage, prevent it affecting others. It should at least protect Brit and Rachel.

Poor Brit. He so willingly spent a fortune on that stuff, just to keep me sane. I love him so much that I can't bear to even think of what will happen to him if... If I cease to be around.

Finding a cure seems to have been almost abandoned since the loss of Johnny. I guess none of us left have the expertise to even ask the right kind of questions. Perhaps the newly arrived Doctor to our group will get the research back on track.

Meantime, we seem to have a known enemy. From the files on the laptop, it seems that The Lost have had us under surveillance for quite a while. Bastinado wants us to hit them hard and take them apart until we get answers, find out who's so interested in us, and why.

I'll be glad to go on the offensive. I feel at times like we are sitting back too much, waiting for answers to fall into our laps. We don't have the time for that. The bombs are ticking inside us. We've got to force things along. Every second may count.

[ QUOTE ]
quite a few defender team buff powers give a bit of defence ( shadowfall, fortitude , bubbles etc ) or a -acc debuff ( Darkest night, Flash Arrow, Tenebrous Tentacles, nightfall, Smoke Grenade ), which stack with your armours to give the same result.

[/ QUOTE ]
Technically, team buffs that boost defence are actually miles better than Weave for an Ice Tanker, because despite the lower numbers per buff effect, at least they are of the stacking kind.

Weave defence does not cleanly stack on top of Ice defences. That is beacuse Ice armour has damage-typed defence (i.e. defence against a particular damage type such as lethal, or energy) while Weave, like Super Reflexes is positional (i.e. defence against all melee attacks, or all ranged attacks).

However, Weave does provide its defence versus attacks that Ice Armours do not, most notably toxic and fire, so although it is a lower defence against those things, well as Tesco say, every little helps.

(Super-Reflexes defences suffer from the other side of this equation, where Weave does stack with their other defences perfectly, but team buffs (with the exception of Bubbles which was specially modified to have a positional defence factor) are mostly damage-typed, and do not stack cleanly.)

Ah, can't make Wednesdays as it is the regular weeknight for the Hyperion Watchmen to team, but have a good one.

All fair points.

But I'd be spamming Brawl in a duel with a brute with Energy Aura armour for the de-toggles. Energy Aura's mez shield has a ten second recharge time, so if you can get that toggle down, your energy attacks are almost certain to slam a disorient on the brute, at which time it is goodnight Mr Brute.

For me, the rage considerations are less of an issue than the very high chance of dropping the brutes toggles and leaving him completely unprotected.

If this is to be a PvP build for the duel you mention, I would strongly advise dropping the taunt power for a start. There's noone else he can hit in a duel, so it gains you nothing.

I'd also say that having both Hurdle and Swift in this build is a waste of a power slot. That's already 2 more powers you can take. Find one more power you can drop, and you can instead take the fighting pool powers to take Weave, which will make a huge difference to your survivability.

Considering that a good proportion of the damage from Energy Melee is actually smashing damage, even Tough is going to make a difference, but it is weave I'd focus on.

Personally, I'd far rather have Weave than Aid Self in a duel, as he is certainly going to do all he can to interupt you, and there's noone else there to distract him for even a second. Many would argue that one of course.

I would also advise taking and slotting Health from the fitness pool. This is going to be a protracted fight, and healing rates will be a factor.

So, for me for this duel, taking the build above as a guide, I would drop Taunt, Stimulant and Aid Self to take the Fighting pool's Punch, Tough and Weave (slotting weave with the slots from Aid Self with an EndRdx, possibly 2, and slotting at least 2 Def Buffs)

I'd drop Swift and replace with Health, and ideally would find an extra slot from somewhere else to at least two-slot it with healing.

<added>
OH, and Eeeek!
I don't see Icicles on the build suggested! Icicles slotted with 2 Acc, 2 EndRdx, and 2 Damage may of course increase the Brute's Rage, but I'd still take it, just to have the option. After all, once his rage is up, you have nothing to lose by turning it on until/unless you Hibernate
</added>

Global: @Ammon
Server: Union and Defiant (altaholic seriously considering learning German just to get a 25th character)

Characters: List at CityGameTracker

White Vampyr (aka Suzi White) gained her powers at a mature age in an 'accident' at a hospital, (see Hyperion Watchmen common origins). She is artistic, emotional, quite empathic, intelligent, but tends to wear her heart on her sleeve. Further background here and here.

Powerstone (aka Major Paul Stone) gained his powers through studies of magic and the arcane arts. He has preserved his life across centuries through the mastery of magic to slow the physical ageing process almost to a standstill. He is an interesting combination of action hero (originally a career soldier) and scholarly academic, and rather 'old world' in his attitudes in some matters. One of the original members of the Guild of Gentleman Adventurers. Further character detail here.

Mr. Torch is a skilled and ambitious department director in a global corporation. His field is public relations, image management, and information management. He is head of The Torch Foundation (named for its founder, of whom Mr. Torch is a descendant), an organization that collects and preserves historical records. He is well-presented (my nature and training) with a pleasant voice and sharp appearance.

Ah, good old Voltaire, who said: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" . He's always been one of my favourites for that quotation, and the philosophical view it defends and champions.

Your (extremely gracious) apology is fully and warmly accepted. It was an easy mistake to make, because my character was named in that post and thread referred to, so no problem at all.

I loved the link to the Pretendy Fun-Time Games site Shadowe posted above - recommend everyone catch it. And for those who missed US Senator Ted Stevens explaining how the "interweb" works "like a series of tubes", that too is hilarious: http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/497 Please do listen to it, it is well worth it. Scarily, this guy voted in the Senate about how the internet will be legislated! It's mocked a lot in the link Shadowe posted.

Well, considering some of those IC people are villains, they live to exploit and plunder the hard work of others.

Of course, my own villain loved the opportunity to make new contacts for his Public Relations and Image Management agency. He's a very social and charming villain though, who sees himself as quite the hard-working good guy. Just somewhat 'ambitious', which is a virtue right?

[ QUOTE ]
But I guess if players want to continue to RP with just the same people all the time, that's perfectly OK too, but it's a pity they decided to ridicule it with their characters.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry for any confusion there. I didn't see any players ridicule it, only characters who would obviously and predictably do so IC. I did not see any player use their character in a way that was in the slightest bit OOC for them who was involved in the ridicule.

It was certain characters who viewed the 'speed meeting' as one of those things for people who can't make friends normally. The very high percentage of women present at the speed meet, over the male attendance, did nothing to assuage characters who'd seen the whole thing as a 'meat market' event for scantily clad heroines to erm... further their 'recreational exercise' opportunities

I thought it was a little higher than that, Zortel, and think I counted 17 or 18 participants in total (it was hard to tell if a couple on the periphery were speed meeting, or just talking together at the end).

In short, a successful event that I think many enjoyed, but also one that a lot of characters (not players) ridiculed at the upstairs bar (much like life), especially those who had left coming to the bar until late just to avoid the 'speed dating thing'.

All in all a great RP event as even those choosing not to be involved got some RP mileage out of not being involved.

[ QUOTE ]
For whatever reason, it caused so much controversy IC (and a fair amount OOC), that it was almost doomed to fail.

I'm not talking about the number of signatures on the petition. That's irrelevant. Sure, there were a fair number. And there are some on the new one, too. But the original was pretty much doomed to fail because enough people objected to the petition that City Hall would have had to pay attention to that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, and presumably obviously, the petition was never going to stop Statues being errected. As a player, there was never any intention it could do that. The City may have many reasons to errect new statues, and a petition is always just that. Governments at all levels frequently ignore the thousands of petitions they recieve each day in a country the size of the USA.

The one actual change it could make, and only for and by those wishing it to, would be a memorial day a bit like a twice yearly GG meet, where heroes who chose to be involved (and ignoring it is a simple as deciding your character's curent mission is too important to allow attendance, even if they support the ceremony) turn out to honour the 'ordinary' heroes.

That's it. Simple, effective, and just as fair as it was to propose the GG meet in the first place. For many players, it would finally add that feeling that they had changed something in the world they live in (because all those villains you fought are still out there being fought, and every threat to the world you took care of has arisen again behind you). It was simply a small, IC touch to feeling that one's character had some continuity within the city, and entirely opt-in.

This is still being proposed and discussed, just not so much on this forum, where so much OOC opposition and stomping on other player's roleplay has happened.

I don't recall the intentions of the soryline ever being a 'community wide RP project'. Indeed, I've stated many times that I was more surprised than anyone at just how many people took part. It was open to all, not all encompassing, and there is a significant and important difference there. Many posted to dissent.

Finally, in a city of presumably millions, which the City Council must represent, just how many votes do you think would be needed? I have always assumed that even if every hero in existance voted for the petition, it would still be a minority (although a very powerful and vocal one) of those the City must represent.

[ QUOTE ]
So, the plot creators have some intention to control my characters for me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Totally untrue, and already stated so dozens of times. However, it does seem that a few players want to control my player experience for me, and tell me what my characters may or may not do.

My character started a petition that (due to game mechanics) could never succeed in anything but creating IC player participation. I'm frankly quite disturbed at the levels of argument and sniping since seen. No wonder GG is apparently getting quieter when this seems to be the knee-jerk reaction to any new ideas or anyone else's idea of how they may play their characters by a relatively tiny number of people.

[ QUOTE ]
I did ask that this not become a debate or discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]
But in posting it to a discussion forum, and actively requesting participation, you open it to all to respond to as they wish withing the terms of use of the forum.

I had no wish or desire for the original Heroes for People thread to become an OOC argument, but it happens. Ironically, perhaps, it was your post that was the first OOC post in that thread, and you have been one of the most prolific posters in criticising both player and character motives, to the extent of claiming Suzi White would be institutionalized (if you'll pardon the Americanism), and of claiming a desire to perform psychology experiments on players.

Well, its an open forum. You have as much right to comment as anyone else withing the Terms of Use of the forum. I would however expect you to therefore show the same hospitality and understanding to others.

It does sometimes seem as though you wish to steer these forums, and perhaps take the 'forum cartel' thing a little too seriously. I hope that is unintentional, as it generally has come across as very offputting to anyone seeking to do any RP without seeking your approval of the methods and means used.

[ QUOTE ]
Since you quoted my OP, you will have noted that I have OOC objections. They are, however, entirely based on the roleplay consequences of people trying to run a plot which totally alters the political climate (and even changes the architecture) of a city which they have no control over, and then asking anyone not interested to simply ignore it, and then banning anyone from commenting on it, even OOC.

[/ QUOTE ]
The only people who can actually alter the political climate within the game itself are the developers, and in general this EU forum only comes to their attention when one of the EU staff forwards stuff to them.

Obviously therefore, any post in the Roleplaying forum is about as likely to create an in-game change as any other, a chance roughly equal to the devs deciding to add a memorial to Jiffy Blakes somewhere.

This storyline is no more able or likely to change the political climate of the game than passers by in Galaxy seeing a group of super-heroes stood around playing with kittens, or an unconscious squirrel, while just a few hundred yards away there are muggings, rampaging zombies, and gang attacks on longbow forces going unchecked. (No wonder some characters decide that heroes are unpopular with the masses, despite the official timelines info saying the opposite.)

[ QUOTE ]
If I ignore this, I leave myself in a situation where my characters believe the city government and people think one way, while other characters believe it works differently. That's nothing to do with whether an individual character is involved in the plot, it affects every character whether they are actively involved or not, and without the permission or acceptance of the player.

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe we already have widely differing beliefs on how the city operates, as the decision of some players that their character lives in a city where heroes are widely disliked, and others belief that heroes are widely praised and honoured.

Reality is subjective to a large extent, and our perceptions of what is inherently true are often formed by social agreements. That is, common sense is usually only common to a particular society or social group. Another society can have completely different concepts that are 'common sense'.

On a more fundamental level, the official Timeline for the game makes clear that super-powers were unknown to the world since ancient times until Statesman and Recluse opened Pandora's Box and released the potential for super-powers into the world.

Any character who had super-powers prior to the 1930s is actually breaking away from the developer lead game reality. But so what? Its a roleplaying game, and while historians in Paragon may believe there were no super-heroes before the 1930s, it is perfectly reasonable that they would not have been aware of any that were not making global news.

After all, NCsoft kind of break their own reality in that regard by having Nemesis be a first-world war villain, thus earlier than the opening of Pandora's Box some years after the cessation of that war.

Its no biggie if a player wants to get around it. Just like one can assume that the use of lethal weapons to make an arrest are in demonstrating that the hero could have killed the villain, and forcing the villain to surrender rather than die once he realises his death would be certain. (Spot the old D&D similarity regarding hit points and why characters didn't have bits hacked off in each fight?).

[ QUOTE ]
You had the chance to let this quietly blow over, but you had to restart it in a way which means that your 'changes' cannot help but go through since no one could really object IC. You have changed the nature of IC reality for every charactr in Paragon City without any support for it in-game, and without asking first. That's no way to behave in an Open RP environment.

[/ QUOTE ]
Firstly, who are you to decide I should let this blow over? Seriously? Who are you to tell me not to RP my own storylines? If I tell you to let one of your characters die because I don't like them, should you end their storyline?

Please have a think about that. Nobody forced, or even asked, you to get involved with any of my storylines. It no more changes your Roleplay reality than plots about kittens or unconscious squirrels change mine.

Once you did self-invite yourself to participate in the story, even then nobody but you yourself decided how, and in what way. That's fine. That's the idea of open freeform RP. It is, absolutely, improvised by those taking part, within the spirit of good playing (i.e. not godmodding)

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but that's the way I see it. This is not personal, I simply feel that your plot is going to split what little general RP community we have left in two. I don't know or care whether that was your intention, but it is the logical outcome.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think sadly you may be right. There does seem to be a small element of RPers that feel they have to control every plot, and that all RP must confirm to their personal rules or be 'wrong' and 'bad'. They seem to stomp on other players and crush anything they are not leading. For them, non-participation isn't enough, and that's a real shame.

I like all players to be able to enjoy the game and be creative without trying to dictate to other players. From the looks of it, there is the nature of the split. I really hope it is one that people are mature enough to cope with by simply ignoring events they don't wish to use, just as you may ignore certain characters that simply don't fit with your RP setting.

It is a shame indeed that it could not have all stayed as IC roleplay, without so much OOC divisiveness, and indeed, setting up straw polls to rally players, rather than characters, to oppose an IC event.

There is an ignore function built into the forum I believe, just as there is built into the game. If you really want to ignore the storyline it is not difficult. If you instead wish to impose your standards on other players, that isn't a supported function, sorry.

[ QUOTE ]
I have an entirely OOC objection to plots like this, and this one in particular, and being forced to take part in it or do no roleplaying leaves me with little option.

Please note, I'm not trying to persuade people to not take part in that plot. I'm not asking that the plot be shut down (partially because I wouldn't be listened to, and partially because I have no right to). I'm not saying what objection I have so that this becomes another flame war. I'd just like to know whether anyone else would rather not take part in it. That gives me the option of roleplaying with other people should I decide to continue playing.

[/ QUOTE ]
If it is about roleplaying only, then it only matters whether people have characters that are not involved in the storyline, surely?

I have many characters that are completely uninvolved for a wide variety of reasons. A couple are not human, one is a bit of a sociopath, and cares nothing for what society may do, and so on. In fact, out of 12 roleplay characters on Union, only 2 are at all engaged in the storyline.

Continued use of the term 'people' rather than 'characters' just makes it sound a little like an issue way beyond roleplay considerations. I thought I'd mention that just in case that were unintentional.

As Mr M says, there are many different ways of slotting the Ice Armour powers, especially in regards to endurance reduction.

Personally, I like a tanker that can keep tanking as waves of mobs come in, so I slot more endurance reductions than some others would. I'd never fail to slot any Ice Armour toggle with at least one end reduc, and for many I'll slot 2.

The only part that is pretty certain is that you'll want to slot 3 Defence buffs in each of your toggle shields as soon as you can.

Most of the defence in EA comes from the unslotted power, and from overlapping the recharge of it.

I figured that I could try to constantly keep 10 foes all within the 8ft AoE and so long as I could constantly have 10 herded mobs within 8 feet of my tank, I'd be getting 21%ish from EA stacking and having 3 def slots and 3 recharge slots (and Hasten, otherwise the overlap isn't that much). But you know, without slotting for end regain, there was no way on earth I could constantly keep 10 foes in my AoE - I kept needing to rest, or at least to pause a bit.

By slotting for end regain instead, I can have 14% defence from EA as long as I can keep enough mobs around me, and I have endless endurance, fully recharging everytime I fire the EA off. Taking Weave from the fighting pool gave me another 7% def, all the time the toggle is running, and before I take the first alpha strike. I have the endurance to keep using all my toggles, powers, and hasten as much as I can, and that in real use for me was the maximum defence overall.

Slotting EA for endurance drain and regain just made the most sense in real useage I found, as it not only gave me the higher defence in protracted use, but also had the benefit of seriously reducing enemy power to attack.

As I say, give it a try yourselves sometime, as play-styles vary, and the numbers alone can't easily take that into account. Try both ways, and whatever you prefer is right for you.

Faultline, did you go for Tech origin for the early access to end-reduction SOs from Yin's store in Faultline?

Not only for tanks, I think Yin's store has finally added a small amount of tactical choice to Origin selection for all ATs. Magic Origins can get early Acc SOs, Mutant and Natural Origin characters can get early Dam SOs, Science Origin get early Recharge SOs, and Technology Origin characters can get early access to Endurance Reduction SOs.

Private journal of White Vampyr

I feel so guilty about not keeping my journal updated lately, but I've just been so busy. Ironic really that the times when I have the most to write about are when I have the least chance to write at all.

Starting with business events first, I've only been able to find a very few press clippings and news stories about Hyperion Star. Seems he preferred a low profile mostly, and was a bit of a loner at times, although there are a couple of mentions of side-kicks I need to investigate further. At least I found a couple of pictures of him that I can have copied to use as a kind of "do you remember this guy" prompter.

GoodGuy thinks he's found a more definite lead though. He suspects it is all connected to 'dyne smuggling, which with Marina having turned green is I suppose not a bad conclusion.

That doesn't tally with finding those clues on the Lost though. So far as my research so far has found, The Lost have no connections with 'Dyne at all. Still, Carl is far more experienced than I am at this heroing and investigation stuff, so he's probably right.

Still on the topic of the Watchmen, I asked Brit to get his lawyers to look into James Carter's company. There was something I just didn't like about how readily and easily Carter took the idea of dealing with a known criminal. I couldn't help but feel he'd had many such shadey dealings before. From the initial reports from Brit's lawyers, it looks like my suspicion may be justified, as there are some curious records of court proceedings, even though most were dropped or settled long before any actual court appearances.

I hate the idea of not being able to trust the people leading us. Funny that I trust Bastinado more than James. I mean, Bastinado is the most secretive and shadey guy I've met. I'm certain he's some ex CIA spook, and goodness only knows what terrible things he's been prepared to do. But Bastinado has this loyalty you can feel. He's ruthless, sure, but he's one of those types who'll never leave a teammate behind, like in the movies.

Its like shadiness is a part of Bastinado. Carter is different, and I don't trust that difference. He's more like those businessmen who will ruin anything or anyone just for a faster buck. To me, that's somehow a lot worse than a special forces guy who may have done bad things for duty.

Of course, it is all the personal stuff that has been the real cause of my being so busy. First the petition, then the negotiations with the Militia ... I never realised what I was getting myself into.

Now Miss Teen wants me to support her in another great cause, and I can't say no. It's too good a cause. I've seen first hand what a difference can be made to some of these young heroines, and myself, by simply being there when they needed some support.

How I'll ever find the time to organise my bridal shower before Brit and I get married I don't know.

Boerewors don't believe the most common hero builder stats about the endurance costs of Ice Shields, especially the first one, Frozen Armour, which costs tons more than the builder says. You will definitely need 2 end-reducers in there, and at least one in every other armour toggle or you'll be needing to pop blues all the time. Ice Armours are end-heavy, especially if you later intend to run Icicles and Focused Accuracy, which are also very endurance hungry toggles.

The really strong thing about Ice Tanks is that if you slot those few endurance reducers around, then once you have Energy Absorbtion, you'll never need RA, or rest, unless endurance drained badly. Ice Tanks and Fire Tanks are the energizer bunnies of the tanker world.

Unthing, you are right about the slows in Chilling Embrace if herding - it slows you down as much as them. However, while running in super-slow-mo, they aren't hitting or shooting, so it can act as a major extra in attack prevention (and makes enemy players physically ill in PvP, especially the stalkers ).

If you prefer not having slows in there, and never intend to PvP, then swap out the Slows for Taunts by all means, and move any extra slots to other powers. Having those slows in there however can be important when the blasters use scattering AoE attacks such as Rain of Fire, as it maximises the damage those do, and any Ice Blaster with Blizzard is going to adore you.

As for Energy Absorbtion, well, I seriously recommend any Ice Tanker at least gives a day's test to slotting Energy Absorbtion for end drain and recovery rather than defence. The defence boost from enhances since several issues back isn't that great, and it is a very small defence boost per mob anyway. However, slotting for end drain means that just 2 enemies pretty much fully recharge your endurance, every 30ish seconds. Means you can really let rip with other powers, and that end-draining opponents of lesser effect than kinetics or sappers really don't worry you. In just 2 rounds (1 minute) of holding a mob, you've drained all of them to empty, and they are back to basic and minor attacks since they don't have the power for the major ones.

In PvP, it is actually the End-drain of a well slotted Energy Absorbtion that is the most lethal power you have, and really makes the brutes and stalkers panic as all their shields drop, leaving them flopping on an Ice Patch, or stunned/held by your next attack.

Try a day slotted each way, even on the test server so as not to waste inf, and you'll probably stick with the one I use after testing for myself.

I never slot less than 2 end modifiers, and never more than one defence buff, on Energy Absorbtion. You don't even need hero stats to show you the difference, you'll notice it for yourself within 2-3 mobs, and certainly after 2-3 missions of endless endurance and no down-time.

It is particularly effective when up against EBs and AVs of course, when the most protracted fights leave everyone else screaming for blues or RA, and you're happily passing out any you've picked up.

On the numbers, IIRC, on even level mobs, Energy Absorbtion drains 35 from each enemy in AoE, and gives you 25 end for each enemy in AoE. Three slotted with end modifiers, just 2 even level foes in AoE will give you almost 100 endurance (full recharge) and they'll each have been drained of around 68 endurance in one shot. When it recharges in 30ish seconds (if two or three slotted for recharge), you'll take another 67 end off them, and they are empty. It is a massively good power.

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If you can spare two extra Recharge SOs in your attacks + Taunt, it'll compensate for most of GA's debuffs.

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Thanks for those figurs. All the builders I've tried still quote the -30% acc as well as the -30% damage, which as you probably know is about the same as being permanently under the effect of Darkest Night (with 2 enhances in the accuracy debuff).

With your figures there, we now only need 3 slots (1 damage SO, 2 Recharge SOs) on each applicable power to completely negate these heavy debuffs (except the movement, which is countered by Teleport, and the slots for that), which is a lot better than 4 slots per power.

However, this still means that any power players would normally choose to 3-slot with recharge, such as Hasten, Conserve Energy, and self empowerments such as build-up and self-heal, will only be the equivalent recharge of one-slot on a Stone Tank in Granite Armour. In fact, due to ED, the effect is a teeny amount lower, as the third slot of recharge is nowhere near full effect. Looking at the numbers here, it seems I would need to 4-slot recharge (under ED) on a power to have it recharge as fast as one slot would do without Granite Armour's debuff effect.

The essential points are the same therefore. Granite Armour is the absolute daddy of all shields because it comes with the absolute mother of all debuffs.

I'm not sure why so many Stone Tanks, and particularly Granite Tanks are haunting a thread about Ice Tanks to argue the facts. Maybe they had nothing else to do while waiting for Hasten to recharge.

Anyway, here's a very unusual powerset combo for an Ice Tank, using Stone Melee.

Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Ice Armor
Secondary: Stone Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) - Frozen Armor - EndRdx(1) EndRdx(3) DefBuf(9) DefBuf(13) DefBuf(13)
01) - Stone Fist - Acc(1) Acc(3) EndRdx(5) Dmg(9) Dmg(11) Rechg(17)
02) - Chilling Embrace - EndRdx(2) EndRdx(7) Slow(50)
04) - Heavy Mallet - Acc(4) Acc(5) EndRdx(7) Dmg(15) Dmg(15) Rechg(23)
06) - Wet Ice - EndRdx(6)
08) - Combat Jumping - DefBuf(8)
10) - Hoarfrost - Heal(10) Rechg(11) Heal(43) Rechg(45) EndRdx(45)
12) - Swift - Run(12)
14) - Super Jump - Jump(14)
16) - Health - Heal(16) Heal(17) Heal(40)
18) - Glacial Armor - EndRdx(18) DefBuf(19) DefBuf(19) DefBuf(23) EndRdx(46)
20) - Stamina - EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) - Taunt - Taunt(22)
24) - Fault - Acc(24) Acc(25) EndRdx(25) DisDur(34) DisDur(37) Rechg(37)
26) - Energy Absorbtion - EndMod(26) Rechg(27) EndMod(27) Rechg(31) EndRdx(31)
28) - Icicles - Acc(28) EndRdx(29) EndRdx(29) Acc(33) Dmg(34) Dmg(34)
30) - Hasten - Rechg(30) Rechg(31) Rechg(42)
32) - Hibernate - Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33)
35) - Tremor - Acc(35) Acc(36) Dmg(36) EndRdx(36) Dmg(37) Dmg(42)
38) - Seismic Smash - Acc(38) Acc(39) Dmg(39) EndRdx(39) Dmg(40) Hold(40)
41) - Stone Prison - Acc(41) Immob(42) EndRdx(43) Immob(43)
44) - Fossilize - Acc(44) Hold(45) Hold(46) EndRdx(46)
47) - Stalagmites - Acc(47) Acc(48) EndRdx(48) Rechg(48) DisDur(50)
49) - Build Up - Rechg(49) Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------

This is an all-round build, focusing early on powerful defence, but still packing a very powerful punch with Heavy Mallet and with Seismic Smash.

Fault is a defensive attack in much the way that Ice Slick can be, making a huge difference in reducing the damage taken in those first few seconds of any mob. Tremor also has some of that function, but it is really there because its just so much fun.

This particular build is lighter on Taunt enhances than I'd usually like for a team tank, but this build can solo very effectively, so I angled it less to pure meatshielding.

Having both Stalagmites and Fault on the build once the third Epic is gained is truly excellent damage prevention, which is really what the Ice Armour set is all about anyway.

It may simply be the diffences in the characters I play there, but in general I find my characters on Defiant level faster. However, there's a lot less (yet to find any) role-playing on Defiant, and it is much more about min/maxing builds and maxing the XP, etc in my experience.

I'm on Union for the roleplay, as after all this time, it is only the roleplay that keeps the game fresh for me. However, I really enjoy testing builds on Defiant, and so many of my favourite builds are there, and generally reach 50 in half the time of any of my Union characters.

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This comment makes my blood boil and is sweeping in nature. I play a granite tank, yes a granite tank. I use a lot of tools to keep aggro since my defence is taken care of. Yes I have ONE armour but MANY aggro keeping tools. I believe that a GOOD granite tank is one that has many tactical options with limited tools.


I mean this: Teleport, one simple little power with so many tactical uses. With some experimentation you can work out a tactical TP sequence using the terrain/corridors/boxes to best advantage. Now that is what I call tactical and thoughtful use of one power. Throw taunt/provoke/hasten/rech enh into the mix and yes, you can end up with a granite tank using NO attacks other than an AE aggro such as foot stomp/fault and using taunt/provoke as attacks all the time to keep aggro.

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I really appreciate thet you'll have done all you can to make your tank a powerful tank. But the nature of the game engine means that if you are in pretty permanent granite form you have totally gimped your ability to tank when the trouble hits.

We all know the penalties of Granite Armour, I presume, but lets list them just to be sure:
- Recharge Rate (-70%)
- Damage (-30%)
- Accuracy (-30%)
- Speed, Fly, Jump

So, you really need to slot one acc, one damage, and 2 recharge enhancements (4 slots) in every power just to almost counteract the self-imposed debuff of Granite Armour. Meaning you have only 2 slots left (max) to use in actually enhancing the power over its unslotted norm.

Sure hasten helps, and almost counters the -recharge, for the 2 minutes duration of Hasten. Then it kicks out, and your Granite -70% recharge rate effect means you'll be waiting a long time for your next 2 minutes of normal recharges. 6 minute wait for Hasten's recharge for a Granite Tank even with 3 slots of recharge right? You can't five-slot hasten to get what everyone else has with 3-slotted hasten recharge because of ED.

You have to put an extra acc and damage slot into mud-pots anyway just to counter the debuffs of granite, so need another acc slot in there to give it any chance of getting much gauntlet going leaving just 3 slots for endurance reductions, and no further room for slow or taunt enhancers.

Naturally, you take Teleport Foe as the precursor power to Teleport so that you can grab those foes that evade your taunt and maneuvering. You'll still need to take Provoke from the Presence pool to hold the same agro a well built Ice Tanker can, and you'll need to slot that to compensate for your minus recharge and minus accuracy of course...

I really appreciate where your heart is on this, but the numbers are not there. Sure, you can hold agro as well as one of the Ice Tanks who only use their auras, but the gimping of your acc, recharge and damage is heavy for good reason - Players were never meant to run around in perma Granite, but the debuffs built into it made it balanced if they really wanted to accept the heavy debuffs.

Nobody is saying Granite Tankers are not tough. They are far and away the toughest tank in the game when it comes to taking damage. They are also inarguably the weakest in the game at dishing attacks, taunts, and gauntlet. Those are simply the facts of the mechanics of the game.

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ok... granite armour is ONE armour, STONE is the powerset... i know what you mean when you say 'granite tank' but it's almost as irritating to me as people calling themselves 'healers'

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Yes, I know what you mean. But to me there is a difference between a Stone Tanker and a Granite Tanker. The Stone Tanker is the one who doesn't Respec most of his other primary powers out of his build once he's got Granite Armour. The Stone Tanker keeps his options open, spending probably the majority of his time in the other armours, and uses Granite as his version of Unstopable - for those extreme cases where it is better to sacrifice all his attack potential in order to be the most resilient force known to any team.

The Granite Tanker is the one who pretty much lives in granite form, and has taken pool powers such as hasten, swift (slotted for speed), etc because he intends to spend all of his time in granite form. He ditches most other armours from his build, sometimes all other armours, in order to take more attack powers instead, to get around the -recharge penalty by simply having more attacks in his chain.

That latter form of Granite Tanker has little understanding of the huge array of tactical opportunities available to a real stone tanker, and has limited himself, and his team, in order to be a one trick pony, largely dependant on buffs and pool powers just to get by. He's a Granite Tank.