OK Need Help & Adive & Your Thoughts !!!


Ammon

 

Posted

Hi All

I am currently building an Energy Melee / Ice Tanker now lvl35. At LvL 42 i will be fighting my mate who is building an Energy Melee / Energy Brute. He is depending on his rage bar being fully up and then build up and then hitting me with ET & TF. He seems to think he will walk all over me.

Please say this isnt true . Can you give some advice on a build for my tanker and does anyone know of a good weakness of the Energy Brute i can play on and use to my advantage.

Look forward to your thoughts, views & comments


 

Posted

Brutes have three main weaknesses when fighting Hero-side toons:

(i) They only have scrapper level defence/resistance numbers.
(ii) They need to build fury to deal decent damage.
(iii) They lack self-accuracy buffs (outside of SS "perma-rage")

+ You can't do much about (i), it basically means that if you are both dealing out and recieving large amounts of damage, the brute is likely to drop before you do. You also will have Hoarfrost ("Dull Pain") which vastly increases your maximum hit points and Hibernate which can stop him from hitting you for 30 secs while you recover HP/End at nearly 'rest' levels. He has lower base HP, and no heals save "Aid Self". He'll have access to the tier9 "Overload" which will boost his HP but not replenish it.

+ For (ii), the plan is to stop him hitting you as much as possible (whilst his attacks do not need to hit you to build fury, you can slow his attacks or kite him) and only hit HIM with high spike damage attacks. This means he won't gain nearly as much fury, since being hit with brawl would generate the same amount of fury as being hit with Total Focus. So build yourself for defense and movement (SuperSpeed would be a good idea since at 42 he'll have access to the -fly/-jump patron webgrenades). Don't be afraid to spam your endurance drain since he has one as well and you'll likely end up trying to drain each other dry. Hibernate can help here, since while you are in it his fury bar will deteriorate without him being able to do anything about it.

+ For (iii), you are both built as defensive toons, but all he has access to is "Build Up". You have Focussed Accuracy, so you will be able to hit him much more often then he can hit you. Focus on high-spike-damage attacks like Energy Transfer and Total Focus, don't use weak attacks such as Brawl/Barrage etc. since this will give him "free fury". I'd advise you to pick up the "Geas of the Kind ones" accolade too, it gives a very large ToHit buff (as well as a large -defence debuff, so use it carefully) and will let you hit him through his Tier9.

+ Get Super Speed since you can't rely on the Jump pool at 42 (patron webnades).
+ Get Focussed Accuracy and Build Up, 6-slot them. Slot 2 accuracies in your attacks.
+ Get your armors, Hoarfrost, Chilling Embrace, Hibernate, Energy Absorbtion and Hasten, consider Aid Self.

Don't worry too much about staying out of melee range, although backing away whilst Total Focus/Energy Torrent are recharging is a good idea since being out of range will stop him building fury through attacking you. You have high defense and Chilling Embrace's -recharge will hamper him greatly. He may try and drain your blue bar with energy drain, so keep spamming Energy Absorbtion (will be up more often than his drain due to Chilling Embrace's -recharge) and if you get into trouble, Hibernate.

One thing you may need to do is back away when you hear him use Build Up. If you can keep away from him for the 10 seconds of +ToHit, you're laughing. Chilling Embrace will stop his Build Up from recharging quickly.


 

Posted

Sample build, Ice/NRG at 42:

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 42
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Ice Armor
Secondary: Energy Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Frozen Armor==> DefBuf(1) DefBuf(11) DefBuf(11) EndRdx(15) EndRdx(23)
01) --> Barrage==> Acc(1)
02) --> Hoarfrost==> Rechg(2) Rechg(3) Rechg(3) Heal(7) Heal(9) Heal(9)
04) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc(4) Dmg(5) Dmg(5) Dmg(7) Acc(15) Rechg(17)
06) --> Wet Ice==> EndRdx(6) EndRdx(17)
08) --> Chilling Embrace==> EndRdx(8) EndRdx(34)
10) --> Hurdle==> Jump(10)
12) --> Hasten==> Rechg(12) Rechg(13) Rechg(13)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14)
16) --> Swift==> Run(16)
18) --> Glacial Armor==> DefBuf(18) DefBuf(19) DefBuf(19) EndRdx(23) EndRdx(27)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Stimulant==> EndRdx(22)
24) --> Aid Self==> Heal(24) Heal(25) Heal(25) EndRdx(27)
26) --> Taunt==> Taunt(26)
28) --> Build Up==> Rechg(28) Rechg(29) Rechg(29) TH_Buf(34) TH_Buf(37) TH_Buf(40)
30) --> Energy Absorbtion==> Rechg(30) Rechg(31) Rechg(31) EndMod(31) EndMod(33) EndMod(34)
32) --> Hibernate==> Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33)
35) --> Energy Transfer==> Acc(35) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Rechg(37) Rechg(37)
38) --> Total Focus==> Acc(38) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Rechg(40) EndRdx(40)
41) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(42)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Power Slide==> Jump(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

I've gone for endurance conservation and spike damage. Energy Transfer and Total Focus could take a 2nd Acc if you're worried, but they both have inherent +20% accuracy, so they're sitting at +53% with one Acc SO.
At 42 you'll have roughly 29.4% defence to his attacks, combined with PvP's "+25% defence" he should rarely hit you. He'll build fury with the misses, but he'll still need to hit you to actually cause any damage.

If you get the chance to hit 43, I'd slot two ToHitBuff SOs into Focussed Accuracy. The third slot's optional and could go as a Heal into Hibernate, Recharge into Taunt or Interrupt Reduction into Aid Self.

A quick look at Defence vs. Accuracy:

Defense = 30% defense (roughly the same for NRG and ICE)

Focussed Accuracy +24.6% (@42) +31.5% (@43)
Build Up +31.5% (@42)
Base ToHit = 50% (PvP)

ToHits:
0.50 + 0.246 = 0.746 (@42)
0.50 + 0.246 + 0.315 = 1.061 (@42, BU)
0.50 + 0.315 = 0.815 (@43)
0.50 + 0.315 + 0.315 = 1.130 (@43, BU)

Accuracy
1.0 + 0.67 = 1.67 Acc (Bonesmasher)
1.2 + 0.33 = 1.53 Acc (ET/TF)

Accuracy * [ToHit - Defense] = NetToHit
1.67 * [0.746 - 0.30] = 0.74 = 74% (@42, No BU)
1.53 * [0.746 - 0.30] = 0.68 = 68% (@42, No BU)
1.67 * [1.061 - 0.30] = 1.27 = 95% (@42, BU)
1.53 * [1.061 - 0.30] = 1.16 = 95% (@42, BU)
1.67 * [0.815 - 0.30] = 0.86 = 86% (@42, No BU)
1.53 * [0.815 - 0.30] = 0.79 = 79% (@42, No BU)
1.67 * [1.130 - 0.30] = 1.39 = 95% (@42, BU)
1.53 * [1.130 - 0.30] = 1.27 = 95% (@42, BU)


So worst case (FA up, BU down) you've normally a 68% chance to hit him with ET/TF and 74% to hit with BS. If you use Build Up with FA, you'll hit the 95% chance cap regardless of the number of tohit buffs in FA.

By comparison, with two Accs in his attacks he'd only have 33-37% chance to hit you without using Build Up.

1.67 * [0.5 - 0.30] = 0.334 = 33% (2 Acc BS)
1.87 * [0.5 - 0.30] = 0.374 = 37% (2 Acc ET/TF)
1.67 * [0.815 - 0.30] = 0.334 = 86% (2 Acc BS, BU)
1.87 * [0.815 - 0.30] = 0.963 = 95% (2 Acc ET/TF, BU)


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I'd advise you to pick up the "Geas of the Kind ones" accolade too, it gives a very large ToHit buff (as well as a large -defence debuff, so use it carefully) and will let you hit him through his Tier9.

[/ QUOTE ]

Needs to be removed from PVP imo. It makes things so 1 sided. I dont know if the devs have factored this in but an SR using the first Elude is easily dropped and then resses waiting for Practised Brawler to return. Maybe it will be removed very soon now just like when ya mentioned "Perma-Rage" i was sworn to secrecy over this and hated being sworn to secrecy but now you've mentioned it "YAY!!"


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

If this is to be a PvP build for the duel you mention, I would strongly advise dropping the taunt power for a start. There's noone else he can hit in a duel, so it gains you nothing.

I'd also say that having both Hurdle and Swift in this build is a waste of a power slot. That's already 2 more powers you can take. Find one more power you can drop, and you can instead take the fighting pool powers to take Weave, which will make a huge difference to your survivability.

Considering that a good proportion of the damage from Energy Melee is actually smashing damage, even Tough is going to make a difference, but it is weave I'd focus on.

Personally, I'd far rather have Weave than Aid Self in a duel, as he is certainly going to do all he can to interupt you, and there's noone else there to distract him for even a second. Many would argue that one of course.

I would also advise taking and slotting Health from the fitness pool. This is going to be a protracted fight, and healing rates will be a factor.

So, for me for this duel, taking the build above as a guide, I would drop Taunt, Stimulant and Aid Self to take the Fighting pool's Punch, Tough and Weave (slotting weave with the slots from Aid Self with an EndRdx, possibly 2, and slotting at least 2 Def Buffs)

I'd drop Swift and replace with Health, and ideally would find an extra slot from somewhere else to at least two-slot it with healing.

<added>
OH, and Eeeek!
I don't see Icicles on the build suggested! Icicles slotted with 2 Acc, 2 EndRdx, and 2 Damage may of course increase the Brute's Rage, but I'd still take it, just to have the option. After all, once his rage is up, you have nothing to lose by turning it on until/unless you Hibernate
</added>


http://www.savecoh.com/

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd advise you to pick up the "Geas of the Kind ones" accolade too, it gives a very large ToHit buff (as well as a large -defence debuff, so use it carefully) and will let you hit him through his Tier9.

[/ QUOTE ]
Needs to be removed from PVP imo. It makes things so 1 sided. I dont know if the devs have factored this in but an SR using the first Elude is easily dropped and then resses waiting for Practised Brawler to return. Maybe it will be removed very soon now just like when ya mentioned "Perma-Rage" i was sworn to secrecy over this and hated being sworn to secrecy but now you've mentioned it "YAY!!"

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't be daft, it doesn't make things one sided in the slightest, particularly in a duel between defensive toons. The reason for this (and why it hasn't been toned down) is very simple: it's a two-edged sword.

Sure it makes you able to hit through high defenses, but everyone hits YOU much more often too. The only reason I'm advising Green to take it is because he'll be better off with 0 defenses than the Brute will, with Hoarfrost, Aid Self, Hibernate and a Higher HP Pool. Only use it when you absolutely need to hit NOW.

Nofuture quotes it as a +200% self-ToHit Buff and a -200% self-Defense debuff. Even resisted that defense defbuff will easily floor ice's +defense. (the +100% recharge and +800% recovery are nice though! )

[ QUOTE ]
If this is to be a PvP build for the duel you mention, I would strongly advise dropping the taunt power for a start. There's noone else he can hit in a duel, so it gains you nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming he still wants to be able to tank, and not devote the remainder of his toon's play life to PvP duelling since he's not hit level 50 yet. Keeping Taunt in the build will mean he can still tank in teams since it helps a LOT in PvE.

If it's a "test server duel" or he has respecs to burn, I'd suggest swapping Taunt for Combat Jumping. It's very low end use, adds mobility and increases your defense slightly. Only needs a DefBuff in the default slot.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd drop Swift and replace with Health, and ideally would find an extra slot from somewhere else to at least two-slot it with healing.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd keep swift, if only for use when Webnaded and SS is suppressed. Hurdle could certainly be replaced with Health if you're not taking Combat Jumping. (Aid Self plus Hoarfrost/Hibernate is plenty of healing though)

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I'd far rather have Weave than Aid Self in a duel, as he is certainly going to do all he can to interupt you, and there's noone else there to distract him for even a second. Many would argue that one of course.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm one of them! Weave is pointless... He'll still easily hit you with Build Up, and hardly ever hit you without it. And with his AutoHit end drain you'll need the endurance. He can only hit you often whilst Build Up is up (10 secs out of 45 normally, less often with Chilling Embrace) so you'll easily be able to pop off Aid Self between his hits. EM has no DoT and he has no offensive toggles to prevent this.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see Icicles on the build suggested! Icicles slotted with 2 Acc, 2 EndRdx, and 2 Damage may of course increase the Brute's Rage, but I'd still take it, just to have the option. After all, once his rage is up, you have nothing to lose by turning it on until/unless you Hibernate

[/ QUOTE ]
Also would be fairly pointless. Free Fury for the Brute since it does piddly damage without slow/-recharge, you need to be in melee range for it to be effective and it's a very big endurance drain. And if the Tank plays properly, in this duel the Brute should NEVER have full fury ('rage' is the SS power).


 

Posted

I quoted ya and changed it to what i think ya meant

[ QUOTE ]
it doesn't make things one sided in the slightest in a duel between defensive toons.

[/ QUOTE ]

That reads better to me.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

All fair points.

But I'd be spamming Brawl in a duel with a brute with Energy Aura armour for the de-toggles. Energy Aura's mez shield has a ten second recharge time, so if you can get that toggle down, your energy attacks are almost certain to slam a disorient on the brute, at which time it is goodnight Mr Brute.

For me, the rage considerations are less of an issue than the very high chance of dropping the brutes toggles and leaving him completely unprotected.


http://www.savecoh.com/

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I quoted ya and changed it to what i think ya meant

[ QUOTE ]
it doesn't make things one sided in the slightest in a duel between defensive toons.

[/ QUOTE ]

That reads better to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'll admit my /regen doesn't usually notice the -def... but my INV hesitates to use it!

It's not any more overpowered than using Vanguard or Eye of the Magus really, all have pros/cons so it depends on the situation and toon whether it'll be effective. And it's only available once every 30 mins...

[ QUOTE ]
But I'd be spamming Brawl in a duel with a brute with Energy Aura armour for the de-toggles.

[/ QUOTE ]

Brawl's only got a 5% chance to knock off a toggle, and if you were using it that way you'd want to slot it with a second accuracy SO. And if the Brute's smart, he'll bring breakfrees in the unlikely event that this happens.

Frankly I wouldn't bother staying in melee range at all unless he starts spamming aid self constantly (in which case slowing him with Chilling Embrace is a good plan, and if you knocked off his mez protection even for only a second then you could quickly finish him off)

You can easily hit through his defenses already with just Focussed Accuracy, so I'd concentrate on hit-and-runs with Spike damage from Build Up ET/TF/BS and then kite him so he loses fury until TF/ET recharge. He'll not be able to catch you with Super Speed + Chilling Embrace running, and he'll lose any hope of getting the +300% damage buff he could get from Fury.

I'd bring loads of Reds, some Blues and a BF or two to the match. Can't see the tank needing other insps.


 

Posted

Thanks to you both for all that information, has helped me a lot and given me a lot to think about

Cheers Guys