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Posts
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Quote:Yeah, I'm still fuzzy on that whole thing myself. Even First Ward kind of muddles the issue; we go through Makwa's arc and learn that they're not the spirits of the dead, but then Serene has this whole thing going on with Diabolique (and I'm still not entirely sure what that was about, aside from some revenge thing that was possibly somehow connected to freeing Lamashtu or else just Serene getting sidetracked and killed but not so killed killed as to completely throw off her plans with Lamashtu). I loved the First Ward storyline, but the last act has always felt kind of rushed, even after playing through it a couple of times.And wasn't the key plot points in First Ward the fact that the apparitions weren't the spirits of the dead? Didn't we talk to Blind Makwa and hold a ritual to speak with the spirits to confirm that the apparitions were the cast of bits of Seer psyches? Night Ward kind of comes in and tosses all that out in the first arc.
Likewise, I love most of the content of Night Ward (specifically as relates to the continuation of the First Ward story; not so much Trilogy and Fireball), but some aspects of it are confusing me. I'm playing through it a second time now on Live, so maybe it got clarified a bit or I'll understand it better now that I know the whole story, but I think some parts are going to remain confuzzled. -
Quote:Are they supposed to be the historic Bedwyr and (Arthur?) Pendragon, though? I just assumed they were named after those folk in keeping with the tradition of the Black Knights and the Lady of the Lake. IIRC, Pendragon is supposed to be the Praetorian version of Hero-1.Over the course of Bedwyr's arc, we find out that the Black Knights are the spirits/supers/whatever who, in the Praetorian timeline, banished the Banished Pantheon gods, and guard the Black Prison where they are locked up. Presumably Pendragon and Bedwyr joined them when they were carried off/when they died (respectively) back in the 4th century AD.
Quote:As for the rest of your questions, I think you're confusing Sorceress Serene and Black Swan in a couple of places. I haven't gotten around to replaying it since early in beta (I'm halfway through it on live, I got distracted by a busy weekend) but as best as I can recall it from beta, Black Swan is the one that disguised herself, joined the Black Knights, married King Lor, and had an affair with Pendragon, all as parts of a long and elaborate plan to unlock the Black Prison. Ironic, since the Black Nights were specifically in Night Ward to hunt her. But the whole thing was her playing Nemesis' favorite game: "Let's you and him fight!"
It would have made more sense for it to be Black Swan (I was waiting for that revelation, in fact), but it turns out to be Serene- who either possessed the Black Queen, or was the Black Queen all along and somehow reincarnated herself after her death in First Ward. It isn't exactly clear how that all comes about.
I think Black Swan would have made more sense for a lot of reasons (many of which you allude to), as well as the fact that- since she *isn't* the Black Queen, her role as one of Tyrant's agents in the Vetrano arc and Magisterium trial just come out of nowhere. -
I've had some questions since Beta about certain events in I23, and now that it's in the larger public eye, maybe some of you out there can help me figure them out (or at least help speculate):
1) Where do the Black Knights come from? Bedwyr's arc makes it pretty clear that they are not from Night Ward, but he doesn't say where they came from. They are apparently searching for something or someone, but again, it isn't explicitly stated what. From other things going on in his arc and the general storyline, I gather that they are looking for either Black Swan, Excalibur, or both.
Are they from elsewhere in Praetoria? Perhaps Praetoria's British Isles would make sense. Pendragon mentions wanting to use Excalibur to bring Tyrant to justice, so they evidently are familiar with Praetoria, and one wouldn't think a group that existed solely within Night Ward would otherwise care about Tyrant. This all goes further into wondering what/where else in Praetoria is still free of the Hamidon's control, and what their political situation is.
2) Where exactly does Serene's plot fit into continuity? The whole Night Ward arc seems to follow almost immediately after First Ward's storyline, yet somehow Serene- though dead after FW- has already managed to infiltrate the Black Knights via the Black Queen, and institute a rather convoluted plot to free Lamashtu.
Her dialogue with Pendragon- where she refers to their affair d'amour- would seem to indicate that she had been involved with the Black Knights long before the events of First Ward. Indeed, the Lamashtu liberation would seem to be a complicated affair that must have taken some time to implement. Yet, oddly, it also seems to be predicated on Serene dying in order to implement it. (What's that saying about no self-respecting villain's evil plan should revolve around getting themselves captured or killed?)
I'm also not quite clear how/what this plot with Lamashtu fits in with her First Ward plans. Her ultimate plans with Lamashtu require Lamashtu to have a living vessel, so I am either led to believe that Serene planned for her own death in First Ward (making the whole Lamashtu plot a contingency plan to the plot she had going on involving Diabolique), or was she going to do both, but getting killed was just a minor setback? -
I don't think that's quite accurate- there's a whole planet still out there, not to mention all the survivors in First Ward. And I'm pretty sure they haven't completely evacuated Neutropolis and Imperial City...
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A Thorny Problem: It's a race against the clock! The hordes of the Circle of Thorns chase you endlessly through a constantly shifting maze of Oranbegan corridors. Will you find the exit in time?
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Don't much care about the wolf pet, myself. I'd just like to get the shard cannon. It's the only costume piece from that that I'm missing, and there are a couple of characters I have that it might work well with.
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I can't help but think there should be one for Dr. Vahzilok. Something related to Pain Domination, or his Wasting Disease (Debuff?).
Something psychic for Clockwork King would be cool. -
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I think Praetorian Infernal is really Tyler Durden.
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I think it would be kind of cool to see Perez Park get taken to Hell by the Hellions, although that's kind of going OT.
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Quote:Good call- there would be a lot of leftover Praetorian Clockwork lying around, come to think of it!They could throw in some hybrid Clockwork created by the Clockwork King, made from the wreckage of the Praetorian invading force merged with his own bits and pieces - like a battered looking Praetorian Clockwork with a Primal Clockwork style leg, arm and head, for example.
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Quote:Very much this.He's not saying Praetorian characters should be in Kings Row, he's saying it should be a Vigilante/Rogue zone using the tech used for Loyalist/Resistance mission choices.
(Although I do love Praetoria and think it is some of the best content in the game thus far.)
And there is some good IC reasoning behind any kind of King's Row revamp would be the Praetorian War/Tin Mage SF. -
They could even do a Praetorian "going undercover" style mission format, where you'd make choices during missions that would be either Vigilante or Rogue choices, and culminating in an alignment story mission where you'd cement your alignment on one side or the other, and which would affect your contacts and mission choices.
I'd especially like it if it fleshed out Hero Corps more (an organization well suited to the "shades of grey" style of play), as well as putting a "good" face on the Crey Corporation- they can't be entirely evil, can they? -
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Quote:This "Gray Zone" idea is exactly what I was going to post about when I first started reading the thread (I was even going to use that phrase!).Another great thing that could be a VIP benefit, If you choose KR as your starting zone, you can start as a Vig/Rogue before level 20! When you do new contacts have evil contacts too. I mean really that is the level range where a bad guy in Paragon City is going to try to fly under the radar any way.
I don't play villains, but I think Blue side currently has enough zones that some could be converted to grey zones an not much would be missed. All of the contacts would give gray missions. The progression would be KR> SKY>IP>Bricks all as gray zones. Why those? Because those are the more run down Gotham style zones. They all fit the Vigilante/Rogue theme. Where as AP>Steel>Talos>FF have the more shiny Metropolis feel. I am betting this was intentional on the part of the devs so they could give both the feel of a Batman or a Superman game experience.
Thee would be a bit of work involved for Doc Aeon to add new gray contacts, and there no real reason to change the current contacts. Again those are the levels where a villainous person is not going to be sticking their head up to get popped.
Obviously, it would take some doing, given the current way the alignment system works, not to mention just the general re-zoning work, but I would absolutely love to have some Vigilante/Rogue content, and Zyphoid's plan is pretty much exactly how I'd want it done. The only thing I'd add would be to add some content Redside (don't need a new zone, per se, but some Vig/Rogue contacts and missions).
I'd even repurpose Warburg into a higher level Rogue/Vigilante zone (I'm not a PVP'er, though, so that's just my opinion.)
Gray All The Way!!!! -
I've long thought that a Rikti EAT would be great. It certainly fits into the mythology of City of Heroes in a great way, and since you could theoretically be either a Restructurist or a Traditionalist, both Red and Blue sides could equally participate in the Rikti fun.
Given the ever evolving Rikti story, as well, it could further expand on the current Rikti in Primal Earth situation (from both viewpoints).
I wouldn't mind seeing a Praetorian EAT, just to balance out the sides, though I doubt it will ever happen. For one thing, you'd kind of need one for both Loyalists and Resistance- or at least something that can cross the lines (which I can't think of offhand; maybe an Interrogator EAT and some kind of Resistance EAT?). For another, given that story is currently cut off at 20, I'm not sure they'll bother.
Otherwise, I'd rather just see them do something to expand the meaning of the existing Origins. I liked the starting "bonus" power of the Origins that came way back when, but I'd like to see something more done to further the depth and differences of the Origins. Back in the day, the starting content was slightly geared towards different stories/missions for the various Origins, but that became increasingly murky, and is generally nonexistent these days. (Add to that so much of the old content is just vanilla compared to the more complex story arcs and missions these days.) -
I posted a thread in the Beta forums suggesting that they add a black market and abandoned lab to First Ward (both of which certainly fit the theme); they are two things that would add a lot to FW, which- I agree with you- is an amazing zone. (Someone even suggested making the lab into an abandoned D.U.S.T. facility, which, with just a few map changes would make it even more fitting.)
I hate that FW's arcs ended before really even delving into the southern part of the zone, and I think your suggestion of making it a 1-20 would be kind of cool, actually; there is plenty of room there to expand things for characters. You'd have to either move some of the current assets/story arcs around a bit, but otherwise, it might be a really cool idea. -
I'm just assuming he is Incarnate through the Kheldian Well, and not Humanity's.
If not, it raises some interesting questions vis a vis Requiem's Nictus powers, Twilight's Son, Prometheus' comments about the Kheldian Well and the Battalion, and the prospect of Requiem having access to two Wells (humanity's and the kheldian's). -
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Something someone in another thread mentioned got me to thinking- we should just send Vernon von Grun to deal with the Devouring Earth on Praetoria.
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Quote:...Now that the conquest of Praetoria is complete, we'll need to mind-scan the surviving population to detect and eliminate any potential trouble-makers - the rest will be allowed to become citizens of the new Primal Empire.
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Mother? Is that you? I knew you didn't perish in the Seer network! -
Oh, sure. Let's give the Praetorians some land to settle on before we decide to lift a finger to help the Rikti Traditionalists. They've only been helping- at sometimes dire cost- to try and stop the war between the Rikti and Humans for years, while the Praetorians just walk through life in an Enriche fueled fugue, turning a blind eye to atrocities and dangers all around them.
"Earth Is For Humans" indeed. Sheesh. -
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This is Nemesis we're talking about. It's already happened.