Zemblanity

Isn't this a good thing? I'd love to see this implemented.

As for the evilest thing I can think of, I'd say making you outlevel non-Paragon Store IOs (which would be really evil once level 54 incarnate shift arrives )

True, but for most arcs (Power, Crusader, Responsibility) there's no real motivation to go to there, it's not like anyone's forcing you to leave the city or anything, you just go to First Ward because you ran out of content in Neutropolis. I'd prefer to see the Rift mission scrapped entirely and eventually replaced with another mission, one that gave you a valid reason to escape to some ruin in the middle of nowhere (or join the Primals in their fight against Cole if you aren't a VIP and didn't purchase First Ward).

Try asking 1000 couples how they first met, and you'd be surprised at how few of those stories actually match. No one's lying, either, memory, perception and the fabric of reality itself are just complicated things that we've yet to master.

I'd take BrandX's words even further, everytime a player logs a character in the game that character's view becomes the only valid view in the universe - everything else is just a tree falling in a forest, i.e. quantum interference that is best disregarded

No, I've seen that 5000 superhumans somewhere as well (not counting the players, of course). Plus, it makes sense, the Rikti Wars state that most meta-humans gathered at Paragon City for the final assault on the aliens, regardless of whether they were heroes or villains. Paragon Wiki lists the Alpha team as having 1000 supers, and the Omega team as having 100 mages. That's 1100, a rough estimate of Primal Earth's meta-human numbers in 2001. Of course, not every meta-human fought in the wars, and some that did weren't officially counted (the Circle of Thorns fought underground, for instance). Plus, by 2012, meta-human numbers appear to have increased with the growing number of Powers Division, redeemed Warshades, Paragon Protectors, Vahzilok, Freakshow, the Infected, etc, but they wouldn't soar so much in just 11 years. 5000 overall, mostly split between Paragon City and Rogue Isles sounds about right. There might be more registered heroes, but that probably includes the guy with a pepper-spray can wearing a pantyhose on his head.

You see signs of fear and paranoia everywhere in Paragon City. You have Vanguard billboards saying "They're still among us", you have Chris Jenkins advertising cheap lawsuits to anyone who got hurt by supers, you have Citizens for Medi-corp complaining that heroes are given special treatment, you have government-sponsored organizations like Malta actively gunning down every meta-human they find (hero or villain), you have Crey Industries appealing for a complete dismantle of non-regulated hero organizations like the Freedom Corps, Wyvern and Longbow, and that's just off the top of my head.

If you follow Marvel's logic, mutants are a special case among meta-humans - their abilities tend to first manifest during puberty, triggered by stressful situations and often accompanied with uncontrollable bursts of power, which can dangerous to anyone around them. Plus, unlike City of Heroes, Marvel lists millions of mutants worldwide, not hundreds, so it's fair to assume the chance of a mutant teenager going time-bomb in school is pretty high - no wonder parents would fear this fenomenon. Do you know how Cyclops found out he was a mutant in Ultimate X-men? He inadvertedly cut his foster parents in half with an optic blast after a heated argument. Add to that the words of their politicians, scientists, priests, reporters, radio talk-show hosts, even a Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, all saying mutants will one day replace humankind, and you've got the makings of a lynching mob.

Spider-man and the other freak-science supers would be viewed differently by the general population. First, unlike mutants, they're rare, freak occurences, and if they go "bad", well, the "good" freaks who wear capes will arrest them. Second, it can happen to anyone, but it mostly happens to adults or late teens, almost never to children, so at least freaks tend to grow up normal, unlike mutants who find out they're different (some would say superior) by the age of twelve. Third, there's almost no recorded instances of freaks going supernova when they first get their powers, which tend to grow gradually rather than suddenly manifest in full force. Fourth, and perhaps most important, freaks almost always become either heroes or villains, so they're either adored or hated, unlike mutant teenagers who will often try to cling to their old lives as if nothing happened.

In Marvel universe, people love the Beast, mutant or not, he's also a hero and a former Avenger who saved the world countless times. They hate Gambit, Rogue and Magneto because those three were at one time villains as well, what's to stop them from going rogue again? As to most nameless mutant teenagers out there trying to go about their own business, people view them with suspicion even if they didn't hurt anyone when their powers manifested, much like any person they know is carrying a concealed unregistered firearm - they might be forced to pick a side one day, hero or villain, and being undecided is just one step closer to villainy.

Like it or not, introducing mutants to the world means creating a dystopic society. Normal humans can't become mutants, are mostly defenseless against mutants, and are therefore treated as second-class citizens until the law grants them unique rights to protect them. This is no different from the lower middle ages, when a select group of petty nobles had free reign to dictate their will to the peasant majority. Their word was absolute, and no one would think to stop them, in fact, no one could - there's no way a starving village with no weapons could stand up against a army of trained soldiers.

City of Heroes doesn't list that many mutants, so the problem is bogus here - even if they went evil, mutants are both outnumbered and outgunned by the other origins. If that weren't true, if non-mutant meta-humans numbered in the hundreds and mutants in the millions like in Marvel comics, that'd be a different story.

Other than people who go proc-crazy, I don't think there'd be a real penalty if that happened. DPS would remain the same, you'd just end up pressing the button a little less often. And for the people who do build for global recharge, it'd be an awesome buff. Look at what they did to Radiation Blast when they ported it to Blasters. Wasn't the net result overall positive?

Mag 4 barely counts as status protection, I'd much rather have real mez protection, like the VEATs and melee ATs have. Clarion helps, but if you're taking it, you're not taking Ageless, which means no debuff protection for you, and no instant bluebar fill after you nuke. Btw, you wish you didn't have to say this..?

To Smiling Joe - While I don't post much (neither do you), you'll notice my presence in pretty much every Kheldian discussion this past year, sometimes supporting you (you did a great job comparing the DPS between PB and WS), sometimes disagreeing with you (mostly about the hypothetical 4th White Dwarf ST attack that you absolutely oppose). There's no doubt in my mind that you've been something of a PB advocate, much like Grey Pilgrim, and I've learned to respect your opinion. This is the first time I actually witnessed you "pull rank" to shut down another player's point of view, and I kinda saw red after that, so to speak. Sorry if my post was overly hostile, it won't happen again.

Why would you even take the shields if you're already perma lightform? Geko is absolutely right, the shields are useless. Tri-form, they drop everytime you shift, human-form, they're redundant since lightform already caps your resistance anyway. That's 3 powers in your secondary right there, wasted due to bad AT design.

Geko's simply stating the obvious. You can keep defending Peacebringer vicissutudes all you want, but he'll still be right. No other AT in the game pays so much to get so little, and I'm talking from a lvl 53 perma-lightform experience. Also, team with more Controllers might not be the right thing to point out concerning PB mez protection, not when you need at least 3 Controllers in the team to achieve a minimum of Mag 3 status protection...

Don't be too worried, just check out all the new stuff in beta. CoH mightn't last forever, but it won't shut down next week, either. The Batallion invasion hasn't even begun yet, they're still several issues away from running out of ideas. Besides, if Paragon Studios is releasing a new MMO, we can all eventually just migrate there anyway (assuming it's not a pokemon facebook game like Arcana's predicting, that is).

P.S. Good luck with your new project, David, make it your next masterpiece

The responsible PC doesn't get the luxury of reading Paragon Wiki or attend HeroCon (or whatever), and the words of a corrupt police officer blaming it all on the government aren't exactly reliable, point blank or no. What the PC does is show up for work and repeatedly prove that he's not willing to let the people get hurt for political gain, even if it means standing up to his superiors, or even the praetors. Unlike the Wardens, though, he does so openly and legally, because he believes the problem isn't the law, it's the people taking advantage of it.

Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc. Criminal behavior is endemic in all states, not just totalitarian ones. Pass a law, and someone will break it. Give some people power over others, and some will abuse it. That's why the responsible PC is needed, he arrests criminals (the mad doctor whose bodycount had hit 43 before we caught him) and puts a stop to zealots (the chief investigator who thought his badge gave him a licence to kill).

Irrelevant, it was still a corrupt regime, as in fact most are to a lesser degree. If you keep blaming the PCs for government crimes they didn't know were taking place, you might as well be blaming every policemen in history.

No, it really doesn't. The Responsibility path is very similar to the Warden path in this respect, they can both be played regardless of your current alignment. In fact, most moral choices encourage the player to switch alignments midway while still pursuing that path. Alignment in Praetoria is a personal thing, you're always a standing member of Powers Division no matter what you do.

In each path, I've only reaffirmed my alignment in one occasion, by freeing the Seers in Warden and by arresting DeVore in Responsibility. All the other moral choices had me question my loyalties in order to do the right thing.

I don't see it that way. They're more like football stars in that respect, worshipped and adored, but they deliver nonetheless. Whatever their motivations might be, the fact remains that they did alot of good for Praetoria - putting a stop to the Destroyers is a good thing, right?

Again, responsible PCs couldn't have known that was happening. Why you keep insisting they should be played as clairvoyant is beyond me.

What's this defection stuff? Do you actually wear a cape and go shout your lungs out that you're a member of the Resistance just because you refused to pick up the soap for one of Cole's goons? We're always Powers Division! Whether your actions catch the attention of Calvin Scott or Praetor White is irrelevant to the Warden and Responsibility paths.

So you're saying Wardens should be arresting Crusaders *before* they actually do something "vile"? Who's being a fascist now?

I'm not even sure how to respond to this. Are you aware that modern humans are at least 150.000 years old and free democratic society only emerged after the french revolutions? So you're saying there have been absolutely no heroes at all tied to any form of government prior to the 18th century?

P.S. Sorry for taking over your thread, Sam. I promise this is my last unrelated post here ^_^

Nonsense. There's a big difference between knowing in your gut that a government is evil and actually having tangible proof about it. Try running the Responsibility story-line again, not until the very last mission are you shown proof that Emperor Cole is directly involved in any sort of shady business at all. Or are you saying that every police officer who worked during Nixon's administration should be shoved against a wall as well?

And before you question the Responsibility PC's actions, keep in mind that this story arc doesn't care what faction you belong to. You don't always have to take the Loyalist side to act responsively - in fact, one of my PCs refused to murder Cleo and Kang "for the greater good", taking the rebels' side two times out of three and still considers himself a Loyalist, just not a puppet of whoever happens to outrank him.

Heck, even Power Loyalists can probably be considered good guys, apart from one wild night out where you drank a little too much. It was probably a dream anyway, filled with cat-girls and spider women, and why would a Top Dog ever rob a bank? Yep, that never happened, so Power Loyalists are good guys too

The only thing that really stinks about Praetoria is the treatment they give to the Seers, but if what we saw happening to those women in First Ward has already happened in the past and in plain sight, it's understandable that people would demand them psychic ladies to be properly leashed. Still stinks though, but only in the same way we Primals place those infected with a deadly contagious disease in isolation, whether they like it or not.

Again, I call you on that. Half the PC Warden' career was spent cleaning up the messes of the Crusaders, culminating with a fight against Calvin Scott at the last mission (unless you think it's a good idea to blow up the only source of clean water in the city). Wardens are outlaws, but they're not terrorists, and if they won't compromise their ideals for Emperor Cole or the Syndicate, neither will they do it for the likes of Calvin Scott.

I'm not sure this is true, superheroes operate within the law, whereas Wardens break the law whenever they find it unjust. They're motivated by the need to help people, much like good superheroes, but they don't share the same code. They're more like the A-Team or Robin Hood, roguish but with good intentions.

Definitely!

With four different storylines in Primal Earth (Hero/Vigilante in Paragon City, Villain/Rogue in the Rogue Isles) as well as infiltrating/sabotage missions, the game would have been alot more interesting.

It's really a pity Praetoria's morality-changing system was never made into a full, stand-alone 1-50 experience. Oh well, back to simply grabbing random outdated contacts after doing bank missions...

Or a low level Task-Force, at least, though it would create a slight causality problem if your PC eventually became an incarnate and decided to participate in the iTrials

Comic book death is always up for debate. When I made that list, I tried to base it on what Anti-Matter says at the beginning of Keyes iTrial, plus what Praetor Duncan said in in her flashback. The assumption is that iTrials will likely include villains, who tend to go for the kill.

Because it's refering to the Praetorian Miss Liberty, listed as dead if you read the plaque under Praetor Duncan's statue in Nova Praetoria.

Missed that line, apparently.

Meant her, names sound similar and it's late, thanks for letting me know.

If you don't mind, please edit your post and erase that line. I read that and already regret it. The tag spoilers in this thread is clearly directed towards spoilers taking place *before* Dark Astoria. Things currently in beta should be off-limits.