Another_Fan
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Quote:That's great. You should post your times. Its amazing that a blaster is now in the top tier of AV soloists, especially an iceOriginally Posted by Dragonkat
(Said to a fake team)
That's nice, while you guys nuke all the little stuff to heck and back I'll be over here with my ice blaster, my build slotted for recharge proc'ing -res, my defiance bonus, and a nonstop ST attack chain wrecking the AV. -
Quote:Very much so. I don't see them coming back any time soon.Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
Did the new stuff as fun as it has been kill some of your alts also?
So i guess goodbye old toons...
The game has changed.Quote:Originally Posted by Chyll
Right or wrong, it feels like the game itself is changing. And my perception is that the change is into something I do not want to play...
Prior to I13 we had to currencies that were needed for our characters to advance, experience and inf. Inf could be traded and you could use it as fast as you could make decisions on how and where to spend it.
You can debate about how much of character advancement in the game was related to xp and inf respectively, but with I13 the balance started shifting to currencies that can't be traded and are now on strict throttles on how quickly they can be earned.
With I19 and the coming I20 they certainly have invalidated much of the prior content. Inherent fitness + Incarnate enhances + Level Shifts have been turning what was fun content into snooze fests.Quote:Originally Posted by Luminara
Either we should be encouraged to continue to play our alts, in which case they made a mistake by grossly over-restricting the Incarnate system, or we shouldn't, in which case they're invalidating everything the game was based on, built around and has been for over six years, which is also a mistake. One or the other, and either way, they dropped the ball. -
Good reason to revisit the why a blaster thread again.
Quote:Imagine a team of 8 each with one of these nukes. Every 12 seconds somebody takes a turn and fires off their nuke, all the minions and lieutenants drop, then the boss is promptly dispatched.Granted, it has an unenhanceable 90s recharge. On a team of 8, all w/Judgement, who notices? For long term AoE DPS, will blasters still be king? I *think* so, but the gap will be shrinking, mightily.
AoE damage is much like survivability once you have enough more is wasted. With the judgment powers I think we will be very near the point where a team of anything has more than enough AoE and more than enough damage in general. The blaster just becomes a less survivable member of the team. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Nihilii
So many ways I could reply, each of them ending up with you in tears and begging a mod to erase my posts again. It was entertaining once, but I'm done with you now, sorry. You'll have to live your little fantasy on your own.
Got nothing then ? -
Quote:Feb 24Originally Posted by Nihilii
Hey Another_Fan, long time no see. Say, do you remember the name of that guy who went and cried to a moderator because I hurt his feelings by pointing out his posting habits were casting some doubts on some claims he made about his real life? Anyway, I'm sure that's the last time we'll ever hear of him, because he wouldn't follow Obitus or me in unrelated forum topics after he complained about me supposedly stalking him, that would be too ironic.
Accuracy is not your strong point is it ?Quote:Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Spines/Fire, Spines/Dark ?
Edit: I drop farm, my focus has never been raw inf. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Mephe
It can be done on a blaster, but the build will always be expensive to get the large recharge and S/L def. And you probably have to have bosses off to prevent faceplants that could happen if their attacks hit you 2 times in a row. The room for error is much smaller than a ss/fire brute.
This, one of the reasons Brutes, and Scrappers are great farmers is they can deal with bosses at their own pace. There is no way a blaster can go spawn to spawn with bosses in tow. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Deevian
Yawn, Obitus.. I'm not sure why your trying so hard to defend Nihilii but surely your pedantic journey to uphold Nihilii's honor is tiring even you? ?
LOL this is a trip to the mailbox for him -
Quote:Its the sounds. You want them to stop.Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
Um, wat?
Honestly, it's really weird how universally KM seems to be regarded as a 'slow' set when the animation numbers are generally no worse than most sets. -
Quote:Super strength for blasters there is an ideaOriginally Posted by StratoNexus
All the melee attack sets are great to make into the next blaster secondary.
Fire/SS blaster, burning down the house.
Sonic/KM blaster, sounds great.
Pistols/MA, kick it up a notch.
Elec/Claws, juice it up.
Ice/Kat, cold steel.
Rage,footstomp, handclap, knockout blow excellent
But blasters won't get a mag 2 area stun, I doubt they would be willing to give blasters an aoe kd.
Rage maybe, you could argue we should have rage by now. -
Quote:Seeing as you threw that out there I thought you would have some idea how relevant it was. I guess you don't?Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Ask the many others in this thread and the corresponding threads in the General Discussions section of the forums who have had the same experience.
Or not. i think you generally only care about posts that confirm your preexisting biases, so it's probably a waste of time.
Maybe 3 people playing their characters poorly don't do well ? -
Quote:Does that make you more or less of an outlier than the guy who never took longer than 35 minutes ?Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Good point. The Scrapper, Tanker, and Stalker on the Apex run i did Wednesday night each died at least 5 times each and my Defender didn't die once. Battle Maiden spent most of her time chasing me around since the non squishies kept dying and losing aggro while i kept my debuffs running and blasted away at her. i was half tempted to type, "lol Battle Maiden, u mad?" as she chased me. Sadly the need to keep moving and queuing attacks while paying attention to the patch warnings made it seem like a bad idea.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Mr_Grumpums
I played a Rad/Energy up to level 38, and I found myself hating all the faceplanting. Radiation's attacks weren't dealing enough damage to warrant the long animation times (minus its sweet, sweet tier 3), and the -Defense debuffs were too low to care much about. I loved the heck out of /Energy, and I was frustrated because I WANTED to like Radiation Blast, but all I ever really used out of it were its tier 1, tier 3, and Irradiate.
Did you try slotting the -res proc, in the AoEs ? It does help. -
Quote:And demonstrates my points.Originally Posted by Fulmens
It's so refreshing! You should try it.
Just how many people are willing to maintain a discussion when the "Regulars" consider this their trump card ?
It was hilarious enough when Fullmen's tried appeal to majority when at the time his "Everyone" didn't have a plausible argument between them. This goes the next step. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Quasadu
Which just makes it even easier to dismiss.
Not everyone enjoys splitting hairs, especially if they know a conversation like the one we just had is coming. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Quasadu
Then you did misunderstand me. This is what I am saying:
Rejecting the doubling claim out of hand is justified, because it is based on false premises.
That's fine, with one caveat I don't believe the person who made the claim ever laid out his premises or reasoning. -
Quote:I must have misunderstood you then.Originally Posted by Quasadu
Once again there is nothing in what you just said that contradicts anything I have said.
I was under the impression you were saying that rejecting the doubling claim out of hand based on false premises was justified. -
Quote:Sorry there is considerably more in thereOriginally Posted by Quasadu
No it isn't. Read the parts you quoted in red.
No assertion is made that dual builds had no significant impact - only "I have a hard time believing..." that they had a significant impact. That is not assertion, it is doubt.
The second red paragraph contains only rejection of the "doubling" assertion as absurd.
such as
Quote:Yet, there's been discussion around here about every other game development that's had a significant impact on the market, yah? And a sudden 'doubling of demand' would've been a pretty frickin' significant and blatantly apparent development, right? So... why was this alleged phenomenon treated any differently? If 'demand doubled with the advent of two builds' why didn't discussions about it appear?
And he also quantifies the degree
There is no way read the two posts as not saying that for demand to have doubled everyone would have had to use two builds on every character and been filling them all up.Quote:Do you know of even a single player who uses all available builds on every single character they play? Because that's what's implicit in the assertion: that we're all doing that. I don't. Do you? -
Quote:You are hurting. That's too bad.Originally Posted by Rylas
I know you'd prefer to forget all the things I said that you couldn't really make reasonable arguments against. Just like what you've been doing with everyone else since I left the discussion.
Seriously folks, don't bother pointing out the inanity of anything A_F spouts. He'll just waste your time with straw man arguments, absurd assertions, derailing distractions and then character insults. Best to let him think he actually convinced anyone he knows what he's talking about and move on. -
Quote:Contained within the assertion that market demand had not doubled from dual builds is the assertion that dual builds did not significantly contribute to demand. This is every bit as much a nonsense statement as the doubled demand.Originally Posted by Quasadu
The parts you put it red do not contradict anything I said. The assertion was absurd and valueless. Negating it is not, in any way, equally absurd or valueless. The parts you put in red are only an elaboration on why the assertion is absurd and valueless.
You can say that the unsupported statement is not enough, you can't dismiss the impact out of hand using specious arguments. -
Quote:Thank youOriginally Posted by Rylas
What is this? A cage-match for quotes, with no holds barred?
It's kind of cute how you pit quotes against eachother then step back with your hands on your hips like you've made a point without actually saying anything about what you quoted.
*Pats A_F on the head*
Aren't you precious!
From the beginning I thought you had nothing to contribute except indignation at my characterization of four speeds statement. All doubt is removed now.
Edit: Is he a relative or is it more of a Roy Cohn - Joe McCarthy relationship ? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Quasadu
You are needlessly assigning value to an assertion that it doesn't have, just so that you can argue it can't be rejected as the made up baloney that it is. Let me spell this out one last time:
VS
Quote:Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
Do you actually play the game, by chance?
Were you watching the market when I13 was released?
When I13 hit, was there a flurry of activity on the market forum about a sudden spike in demand for, well... everything? No, there wasn't.
Yet, there's been discussion around here about every other game development that's had a significant impact on the market, yah? And a sudden 'doubling of demand' would've been a pretty frickin' significant and blatantly apparent development, right? So... why was this alleged phenomenon treated any differently? If 'demand doubled with the advent of two builds' why didn't discussions about it appear?
Furthermore, do you see any real substantial amount of dialogue about multiple builds on these forums, anywhere? If it was a nigh-universal practice to utilize multiple builds, wouldn't it see as much community discussion as every other commonly adopted practice?
Do you know of even a single player who uses all available builds on every single character they play? Because that's what's implicit in the assertion: that we're all doing that. I don't. Do you?
I'd be hard pressed to accept the notion that maintaining multiple builds is more than a rare, niche practice, let alone the widely adopted behavior the claim implies. I mean, for Pete's sake, I've run across multiple people who didn't even know unlocking the Incarnate stuff opened up a third build on their characters!
Anyway.
"You seem to be completely forgetting that demand has doubled with the advent of two builds" was an absurd assertion, made even more laughable because it was presented as a given. It's obviously false to anyone who actually, y'know, plays the game and pays a modicum of attention to the trends that form in it.
It's reasonable to assume anyone participating in discussions such as this possesses at least that baseline of informed awareness. Thus, having to "support" one's bewilderment and rejection of such an obviously inane statement shouldn't be necessary.
And, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who demands such support is likely being a disingenuous participant in the dialogue, looking to derail it into a nitpicky, tedious footslog of ponderously qualified language.
Yuck, no thanks.
I'm gonna engage in these discussions casually. If you don't like that, put me on ignore.
Now if you want to argue that I just got lucky on the way I read
You would be on firmer ground.Quote:"Wow.
Uhm...
No."
Edit and just to be completely clear. Significant portions in red. Demand as being used to mean attempting to put IOs in every build slot that opened up which would not be a doubling in demand but an increase in demand much much much larger than double. -
Quote:The problem is you have two assertions.Originally Posted by Quasadu
I have not asserted that demand has not increased. I have only denied the validity of the claim that demand has doubled with the advent of dual builds.
When an assertion's validity is called into question, the burden of proof is on the person making the assertion.
The assertion that demand has doubled with the advent of dual build has no basis in fact or logic. Until some evidence to support that claim is brought forward, that claim can be dismissed out of hand. It falls under the heading of "s*** I just made up."
"The demand has doubled"
and
"Wow.
Uhm...
No."
And how you want to interpret them.
You can play the exactly doubled, or you can read that as doubled the total number slots, multiplied the number of slots that were unfilled with enhancements by some large number.
Then there is the matter of discounting effects on market prices.
About the only thing you can say with certainty about I13's effect on the market is that it concentrated supply at max level.
Going further is just choosing a side you like and working backwards. -
Quote:I can't say whether it is correct or incorrect. My own "FEELING" is that the number of IOs purchased for alternate builds is less than half the IOs that were purchased for slotting in all builds. This is not demand.Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
Uhm, that's a misrepresentation of what's been said.
Demand has not doubled (due to secondary builds) != demand has not increased (due to secondary builds).
But thank you for now agreeing that the initial assertion was wrong?
@.o
The problem when speaking about a doubling in demand is that there are lots and lots of people in the game with billions and billions of inf and nothing to do with it. So if you give them a second build all of a sudden they have desire for IOs and large amounts of inf to purchase them. Boom there is your demand.
Edit: I can definitely say that there is no way under heaven to make a definitive statement that demand doubled. -
Quote:Definition 3: More precisely is the product of the desire for an item and the money available to buy it.Originally Posted by peterpeter
For what it's worth, the "double demand" thing looks to me like a simple disagreement about the definition of the word demand. I think there are three separate definitions running here, maybe more:
1. A measure of how badly people want stuff
2. A measure of how many enhancements are purchased
3. The amount of inf which is available to purchase stuff
In common English, definition #1 seems the most common. On these forums, #2 seems more common. In economics, #3 is more appropriate. Well, maybe I didn't phrase it perfectly, but something along those lines. When economists say that demand for cars has doubled, they don't mean that people suddenly desire cars more fervently than in the past, or even that the number of cars sold will double, but rather that the amount of money chasing the existing stockpile of cars has gone up.
You can have all the money in the world and still represent 0 demand for a good.
The problem is that neither statement is accurate or demonstrable. You can no more say that demand has not increased than you can say that demand has doubled. They are both wrong.Quote:By none of those definitions does the statement about demand having doubled with dual builds seem accurate or demonstrable. -
Quote:Its amazing the things people do in game that never make it to the forums.Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
Hi there, Fan!
Hey, y'know, you completely disregarded a sizable chunk of my response! Well, boy-howdy, there's a surprise!
Let's revisit the questions you ignored:
- Do you see any real substantial amount of dialogue about multiple builds on these forums, anywhere?
Of the characters I play most don't have more than SOs, commons and the occasional frankenslot from a recipe that would otherwise have been vendored. It would be completely misleading to include these in any discussion of market demand because they were never involved in the first place. Just by comparison it would be like trying to wedge people that grow their own food into the CPI.Quote:- Do you know of even a single player who uses all available builds on every single character they play?
- Do you utilize every build on every character you play?
Of the builds I have done since I13 the bulk have been small respecs to accommodate changes that were made to the game since then. Of my entirely new IO builsd 2 were second builds for my VEATS, 2 were human only builds for Kheldians, 1 was for an electrical melee/shield scrapper, 1 was for a Super strength/Shield brute. I may be forgetting something in there.
So in terms of my demand for IOs to use in builds my purchases were increased by 133%.