YoumuKonpaku

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251119

Page two of this forum.

I figure someone will benefit from the data in the primaries. Looking at city of data, I'm having a bit of difficulty getting the actual values for some of the epic blasts, however. I suppose I'd need to look in game.

The raw DPA does give good ideas on where to start with optimizing attack chains, though. Something else I had difficulty finding, aside from ones I already know off the top of my head. I'm really looking for something that can chew into AVs, and decently AOE groups, while not getting his butt kicked by AOEs.

Calculating attack chains is one thing I don't know how to do, though. I can organize data and make basic calculations, but that's about it.

Edit: Doh, just saw your link after I posted. I'm not sure how I missed that in my search, but it may have to do with the last post being almost a year old.

Edit 2: Ont he other hand, those determinations are over 1.5 years old. With changes to powers, improvements in recharges, et al., perhaps newer determinations should be made.

I looked around and couldn't find something like this posted anywhere, so I put together spreadsheets of the DPA for each scrapper primary and APP/PPP power.

I was trying to decide on what scrapper to make next, preferably something I could turn into a main/badger since I've got picky requirements. Ended up doing this as a result to help my decisions.

Here's the spreadsheet:

ODS format (open office): http://www.mediafire.com/?yq76gxva9xabq3f

XLS format (MS excel): http://www.mediafire.com/?84o2pddd7q2m6t4

GoogleDocs: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...thkey=CJDikZoL

GoogleDocs formatting is a bit weird, dunno how to truncate the calculations on DPA. The other spreadsheets round off.

Still haven't decided on what to do for my power sets, though. Was thinking fire/fire/fire built towards 32.5% def. Been playing a lot of characters with straight def and no res (bane spider, fire/earth dom) that go 'splat!' when up against nasty AOEs (reichs is a good example). Getting a bit tired of that. Or maybe Fire/Elec/Fire.

Edit: The DPA for the blasts is, apparently, incorrect. Disregard.

I am in for LGTF next week, don't know what I am bringing.

edit: all of them unless a new run of isos starts next Wednesday.

This is the build I PMed him on the night of the 8th, in case someone else would be able to make use of it:

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

nwidow: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Poison Dart -- Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(11), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Decim-Acc/Dmg(36)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Mako-Dam%(37)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(5), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(9), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(11)
Level 6: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(7), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(7), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(9)
Level 8: Follow Up -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(40), Mako-Dam%(43)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), EndRdx-I(31), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(13), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Dam%(43)
Level 14: Spin -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(23), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), EndRdx-I(36)
Level 16: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Slash -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(34), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Mako-Dam%(46)
Level 20: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(31), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Foresight -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(34)
Level 26: Mind Link -- LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(27), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(27), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(29), HO:Cyto(29)
Level 28: Stimulant -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Tactical Training: Leadership -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(40), HO:Cyto(40)
Level 32: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(33)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(39), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Numna-Heal/Rchg(48), IntRdx-I(50)
Level 41: Electrifying Fences -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg(42), Posi-Dam%(43), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dam%(46), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(3), EndMod-I(3)
------------

This is the kind of forward thinking I was looking for!

Thanks for the insight.

Also, regarding the ptod vs benumb thing, that's right, it was an AV with weak ptod.

Sorry, I meant to exclude dominators. I'm fairly sure they can do it with PB and spamming their ST hold. I lost that bit when I retyped this after the thing logged me out.

This was intended as an academic exercise to see if someone else can straight hold an AV through triangles up.

I build a lot of characters with */Ice/Psi as a defender. Hey, three holds are pretty nice for extra controls on a team. They also allow for a good chunk of Recharge!

Then, playing my D3 Defender, I realized, I've never thought about putting Dark with Ice/Psi. You'd have four holds! Maybe, with these Alpha slots, one could stack holds long and fast enough to hold an AV through triangles up, by themselves?

That's the goal here, and I put together a build, but I'm not entirely sure on doing the math. You have to stack enough to beat 53 mag of protection.

Here are the numbers I have with the current build below (these are in order of recharge, duration, animation). These were obtained using Nerve:

Freeze Ray: 2.789 / 26.11 / 1.188
Paralyzing Gaze: 4.463 / 26.11 / 1.848
B. Freeze Ray: 5.578 / 26.1 / 2.64
Dominate: 4.463 / 39.17 / 1.32

I also did a version with a few powers changed and with Spiritual. To acquire the second numbers, add Spiritual Core Paragon, remove 2 slots from Hasten to DN, add 4 DarkWatcher's.

Freeze Ray: 2.46 / 23.29
Paralyzing Gaze: 3.94 / 23.29
B. Freeze Ray: 4.92 / 23.3
Dominate: 3.94 / 34.94

Posting a chunk only since the focus is on the holds.

The questions to be asked are:

Can one stack enough Holds, long and fast enough, to hold through triangles up? If not, how close are you? Can you do it with one teammate providing an extra hold or so?

Is it more effective to lose a hold in favor of PBU?

Would this be better done on another AT, aside from dominators? I believe they can do this with PB and spamming their ST hold during Dom.

I am repeating what I have been told. I would have to respec my Hero VEAT to confirm for myself.

Wiki also does not list availability of APPs for VEATs, where it does list both PPPs and APPs for all of the other ATs (aside from pb/ws).

EDIT: This took me 30 seconds to find. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=242649 Old post, but it hasn't changed since then.

VEATs can't take APPs last I checked, it is a quibble in Mids that has yet to be fixed.

You have... a lot of accuracy. Will work on this after khan.

edit: check your PMs

I actually went into mids and tried to build an FF/Ice/Psi who took advantage of the full acc, def and hold aspects. Ended up with so much acc regardless that Nerve's primary bonus was STILL largely wasted. I'd literally have to build with SOs/generic IOs only.

The good kind of silly. 'Awesome' silly. Not the bad kind!

I would be happy seeing it become Fly/Run/Jump.

Necrotech, would you mind posting your stone brute's build?

I'm rather fond of the Alpha Slot system and the benefits it provides. It eases up requirements to meet certain goals, or improves that goal past the point we had met prior. With that said, I've felt Nerve is perhaps the least valuable of the four choices. I am primarily going to talk about the very rare boost.

Nerve most certainly has its benefits. We can look at a bubbler or someone with some sort of defensive buff for the team and see an immediate benefit.

Deflection Shield with...
3 Def SOs: 23.4%
plus Nerve: 25.5%
2 Def IOs: 22.46%
plus Nerve: 25.15%

Dispersion Bubble with...
3 Def SOs: 15.6%
plus Nerve: 17.03%
2 Def IOs: 14.97%
plus Nerve: 16.77%

Why, just with that, an FF defender can nearly cap all of his teammates! An unenhanced Maneuvers on top of it would cap every player nearby who had bubbles maintained on them. It would also ease the FFer's burden of potentially softcapping themselves. MMs and Controllers under the same circumstance would provide 35% to the team.

The question is, though, outside of DEF buffs for the team, is nerve worth it?

Let's look at the accuracy component.

I would like to start by saying that if you fight only +0s, Nerve will cap your accuracy completely, and waste some of the benefit. If you fight +1s as well, it will bring it to 94.25%. Both without any additional enhancements. +2s will require one SO worth of accuracy. +3s require two SOs worth. We are going to ignore +4s for this majority of the discussion because you are level shifted if running this type of Alpha. With that said, fighting -1s will waste a large portion of the benefit.

This seems very nice, you don't have to slot a bunch of accuracy to hit +3s. Hey, makes life a little easy against, say, Rikti on ship raids, the AVs in STF, etc.

Right? Not really, at least not when you take sets and teammates into account. Or even simply a real world situation involving a fully built character with their powers together.

How about a Scrapper? Well, if they're into any sort of high end play, they'll have probably picked up Tactics or Focused Accuracy. Perhaps for the extra tohit/acc, or possibly for the extra defense from a set of Gaussian's. If they built for recharge, they are quite likely to run into global accuracy bonuses. LOTG sets, Oblits, Crushing Impact, Positron's Blast. A character like this wouldn't benefit from Nerve at all. Slotting 5 Crushing Impacts, even doing your best to avoid accuracy bonuses, will result in an IO's worth of acc.

How about an Elec/SD/Fire scrapper? They're going to stack plenty of recharge IOs. Some oblits, maybe some crushing impacts. Posiblast in fireball. Tactics with Gaussian's to bump up Defense isn't too unlikely, that's another chunk. The only thing they'd benefit from on Nerve is the Defense increase, and if they're softcapped, it doesn't really matter, does it? They'd benefit much more from any of the other choices offered for Alpha slots.

The same is going to go for almost anybody who uses an offensive power requiring an accuracy check. If they pick up a bit of recharge, or tactics for defense/team benefit, they are easily going to push over the 95% cap for +3s, and even +4s. Accuracy on any IO'd toon is possibly the easiest goal to meet since it's just so common when aiming for other goals.

The difference between Nerve and the other Alpha choices is that you can tack on any of the others and just go while reaping the benefits. Nerve, on the other hand, can waste a lot of the bonus. Already defense capped? Have the accuracy you need? Wasted. You have to literally build around Nerve to take advantage of it. But, with that said, an offensive character would have a hard time taking advantage of it. Heck, a tank building for softcap defenses would be fine on accuracy.

So now we're back to characters with defense buffs.

Cold is out on the accuracy aspect because they'll be working on recharge for Benumb, Sleet, Heatloss, etc. They'll benefit from the defense, to the same turn as Deflection shield above. Arctic Fog would get a nice little chunk as well. Heck, Cold should be able to put nearby teammates at 35% with Nerve. Not bad, but the accuracy is wasted.

To my understanding, traps is in the same boat. Needs recharge, so it should be acceptable on accuracy. Both are also rather likely to pick up Tactics, either for their pets or the team. Granted, one could argue against it for the pets with taking Nerve, but Tactics still does two things that the Alpha does not: Protects against -PER and buffs the team.

This leaves two others with significant team defense buffs. VEATs and FF. VEATs are going to be fine on accuracy with TT: Leadership. They have, perhaps the easiest time in capping Defense. They don't need either of these aspects. They are also picking up recharge for pets and other abilities. Would the team benefit from the extra defense? Sure. My Bane provides 21% to the team by herself, that'd jump up to MAYBE 25%.

Forcefielders are thus the sole survivor. Taking Nerve will allow one to easily softcap their entire team, as I stated earlier. In fact, it might be the only power set that can truly benefit. FF does not need to be built for recharge, it doesn't need much in the way of end reduc. A few of the MM primaries would benefit from building global recharge, but not on a large scale. The controller primaries will seek global recharge and thus not need the accuracy component. A defender may want recharge bonuses for their secondaries, however. This, again, negates the accuracy benefit.

Very briefly touching on the rest of the benefits provided by Nerve:

Hold, it's likely better to just have more recharge and fire the ability more often. Fly is a waste. Taunt isn't necessary with any slotting at all. Confuse is also in the same boat as Hold, in my mind.

So, with all of that said, I don't feel Nerve is really worth it unless you are:

Running on SOs or generic IOs against +3s/+4s.

Playing a Forcefielder with the sole intent of getting that extra 2-3% Defense OR having built exclusively away from accuracy.

Do people feel differently? Can someone show me moments when, hey, nerve is just really awesome and the best choice?

Yeah, I edited it earlier to say I forgot to move the Kismet.

The proper build with it was on my laptop, I moved it to Eclipse and ended up adding a straight generic Acc IO.

For giggles, and because I am enjoying this character so much, I wanted to see what was possible now that Mids handles Alpha slotting. So I went and copied her build file and redesigned it around purples and a 45% Rech / 33% Heal and Stun Alpha.

It's actually rather silly, here are some examples:

Hasten is perma with 1 Recharge IO, that's it.

It freed up a number of slots used on straight recharge IOs (the two nova AOEs), as well as other places.

Dwarf Mire is triple stacked(?) for about 0.15 seconds. At the very least it means being able to fire a third Mire while maxed from the first two!

Unchain Essence up in under a minute, Quasar under 1.5 minutes.

Eclipse is permanent without Hasten.

I dropped the recharge IO from the fluffies, only lost a few second. Still can have 3 out.

Sunless Mire can stack with itself(?) for about 1.8 seconds if left with 3 Acc/Rechs, but I switched it up to a max of Damage, End, Rech and a little acc. Recharges in 29.99 seconds.

Gravitic Emanation is up in ~10 seconds and lasts 30.

Dwarf Drain is a 34% heal every 4 seconds.

NOTE: Clicking forms on will disable the effect of your Alpha in Mids until you reselect the Alpha.

Here's the chunk for the set up I was toying:

I've been staring at your build in Mids for the past 15 minutes or so, and all I can think of is dropping the Reg Tissue unique for another Rech IO in Hasten, netting 2.2 faster recharge.

That's more of a taste thing, though.